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View Full Version : Delta Flight lands at wrong airport on 7/7


frankpgh
8th Jul 2016, 21:02
http://fox6now.com/2016/07/08/delta-plane-landed-at-wrong-airport-ntsb-says/

oceancrosser
8th Jul 2016, 21:10
Well Delta's anchestor (NW) mixed up BRU and FRA. Similar runway bearings (13/31 vs 14/32) however terminals/hangars on opposite side and a significant difference in runway length. Some explaining to do, but hey the did it on the Dreamlifter.

Airbubba
8th Jul 2016, 21:25
Déjà vu all over again. :ugh:

Surely it wasn't a Delta MSP crew this time... :=

June 20, 2004 | ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) -- A Northwest Airlines flight that was headed to Rapid City, S.D., landed a few miles off course at Ellsworth Air Force Base, and passengers had to wait in the plane for more than three hours while their crew was interrogated.

Passengers on Northwest Flight 1152, an Airbus A-319 from St. Paul, expected to be welcomed to Rapid City Regional Airport on Saturday, but after about five minutes they were told to close their window shades and not look out, said passenger Robert Morrell.

"He (the pilot) hemmed and he hawed and he said 'We have landed at an Air Force base a few miles from the Rapid City airport and now we are going to figure out how we're going to get from here to there,"' Morrell told the St. Paul Pioneer Press by cell phone during the delay Saturday.

Eventually, the captain and first officer were replaced by a different Northwest crew for the short hop to the right airport.
Northwest confirmed that the crew made an "unscheduled landing."

"The situation is under review and we have nothing further to add," said Northwest spokesman Kurt Ebenhoch. He would not identify the cockpit crew, or say if the pilot made an error.

Ellsworth controls all air space 40 miles around the base and clears landings at both the civilian airport and the base.

The city's airport runway is "just over the hill" from Ellsworth, and the Northwest crew had to descend through a layer of clouds, said a base spokeswoman, Lt. Christine Millette.

The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating.

Some discussion (the 2004 pilots later got fired by NWA :eek:) from the old PPRUNE 'pro pilot's forum' days:

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/134726-plane-lands-air-force-base-mistake.html

Spooky 2
8th Jul 2016, 21:40
This has happened at Ellsworth in the past...many times as a matter of fact going back to the days of Frontier, NWA and maybe WAL. The airlines have used Ellsworth as an alternate in the past and even operated out of Ellsworth while the runways were under construction at RAP. Assuming the tower was in operation at this hour, once has to wonder why the controller did not call out this impending error to the crew. Anyone who has worked this ATC at RAP is keenly aware of the impending situations that occur at RAP?

Nothing to see here other that perhaps some time off for the crew.

Hotel Tango
8th Jul 2016, 23:19
Nothing to see here

Not quite sure about that!

perhaps some time off for the crew

Could be quite an extended vacation!

Spooky 2
8th Jul 2016, 23:31
Hotel Tango since you appear to know so much about these two airports what don't you share your knowledge?

I do wonder what/why someone did not say this doesn't look right when the runway was 200 feet wide?

pattern_is_full
9th Jul 2016, 00:31
I do wonder what/why someone did not say this doesn't look right when the runway was 200 feet wide?

But also 15000 feet long. Proportionally, KRCA will look like the narrower smaller runway, until quite close in. (KRAP 14 is 8700 x 150).

No ILS for KRAP 14, so the approach was RNAV, VOR or visual. Approaches to KRAP 14 will place one on a short final to KRCA 13 as one flies past. One will see Ellsworth first, almost directly on the nose, nicely aligned, once on the approach.

Landing time was 20:42 local (MDT), or five minutes after start of civil twilight.

Interestingly, the plates for KRAP 14 are not placarded with a warning as to airport confusion (as are some in similar settings).

KRCA tower will definitely notice you are landing on their runway - but you are not on their frequency. How does that help?

KRAP tower probably doesn't start a stopwatch the moment you get landing clearance - but even if they did, by the time they noticed you were overdue or not in sight - you'd already be on the ground at KRCA.

Remember KRAP is a small, not terribly busy airport in the US - odds are probably good the crew was "cleared to land" almost as soon as they first contacted the tower. Not on 1-mile final.

Of course it is a screwup - but what steps would anyone here take to avoid it?

Airbubba
9th Jul 2016, 00:53
I do wonder what/why someone did not say this doesn't look right when the runway was 200 feet wide?

Actually, I believe the runway at Ellsworth AFB is 300 feet wide (instead of 150 feet wide at KRAP). And you would think the Bones (as in B-One's) parked outside would be another visual cue that things were not right. Looks like the approach was done right around sunset, unintentionally to Ellsworth's runway 13.

They were on the ground about two and a half hours and then flew a short flight over to the right airport:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2845/history/20160708/0410Z/KRCA/KRAP

Nothing to see here other that perhaps some time off for the crew.

Could be quite an extended vacation!

Hopefully the crew were doing checklists and making all the right callouts as they made an 'honest mistake'.

airman1900
9th Jul 2016, 01:04
An excellent site titled "The Legacy of Douglas Corrigan: "Wrong Way" Landings by Commercial Airliners Jol A. Silversmith"

http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf

West Coast
9th Jul 2016, 01:55
Oveancrosser

Some explaining to do, but hey the did it on the Dreamlifter.


Might want to check the aircraft type.

lomapaseo
9th Jul 2016, 03:22
Might want to check the aircraft type.

maybe that was a pun :)

oceancrosser
9th Jul 2016, 05:47
Oveancrosser




Might want to check the aircraft type.

http://www.wired.com/2013/11/dreamlifter-wrong-airport/

bloom
9th Jul 2016, 08:13
http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf

Nice link but obviously incomplete.

I see no mention of United landing in Counsel Bluffs vs Omaha or Trans States in Springdale vs Fayetteville AR (Drake).

But the Trans State incident illustrates the rub.

If you F up, stop and fess up. If you land successfully at the wrong airport the FAA really can't take any action.

The Trans States crew taxied back and repositioned the flight to the correct airport.....with no release, W/B , performance, etc.

Nailed!

In 20,000 hours I have nearly fell for the wrong airport more than once. And if you think you are immune, you're next to do it.

The Ancient Geek
9th Jul 2016, 09:32
Nobody died, nobody hurt, the man who never made a mistake never made anything.
Wherever there is a trap waiting for the unwary somone will eventually fall for it.

Nothing to see here, move along please.

RAT 5
9th Jul 2016, 09:53
Nothing to see here, move along please.

Just a joke to help the process. On this side of the world some folks think this is a regular event. Certain airlines land at one minor airport, but kid the passengers they are going to the major city airport. Happens every day, but we get over it.

slowjet
9th Jul 2016, 09:54
Ancient Greek, wish you and bods like you were my DFO ! Where are the good, professional, balanced guys like you when we need ya !

Ian W
9th Jul 2016, 10:34
Well Delta's anchestor (NW) mixed up BRU and FRA. Similar runway bearings (13/31 vs 14/32) however terminals/hangars on opposite side and a significant difference in runway length. Some explaining to do, but hey the did it on the Dreamlifter.
The aircraft type is incorrect.
It was an ATC mix-up that the crew did not detect. They were actually vectored into BRU by ATC who were all convinced for some reason that was the aircraft destination. The story is here Northwest 52 Brussels Incident - Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=116503)

Hotel Tango
9th Jul 2016, 11:13
Hotel Tango since you appear to know so much about these two airports what don't you share your knowledge?

I honestly haven't a clue what you mean by that! I was referring to what I understood you to be suggesting i.e., that landing at the wrong airport is quite common, nothing to be concerned about, and that we should all move along. I happen to disagree and think that there's plenty to be concerned about!

airman1900
9th Jul 2016, 11:34
I see no mention of United landing in Counsel Bluffs vs Omaha...



January 3, 1969 - A United Airlines 727, bound for Omaha, Nebraska (OMA), mistakenly lands a
Council Bluffs (CBF)

DaveReidUK
9th Jul 2016, 11:40
Well Delta's anchestor (NW) mixed up BRU and FRA. Similar runway bearings (13/31 vs 14/32) however terminals/hangars on opposite side and a significant difference in runway length. Some explaining to do, but hey they did it on the Dreamlifter.

The OP is referring to two separate incidents: the NW DC10 that landed at BRU instead of FRA, and the BLCF that (like the Delta) confused Ellsworth with Rapid City.

Pay attention at the back! :O

Double Back
9th Jul 2016, 15:54
Long time retired but I am glad I wasn't lured into a mistake like that, although I almost (as a young S/O) talked a crew into taking a wrong RWY. Luckily the boss had (then) 18.000hrs more than I had and noticed the difference in heading and we could swap to the correct one.

Like the Ancient Greek, I would say, they have been punished already hard enough, and it will haunt them for years to come, (especially after a few beers with colleagues:eek:), more punishment is not effective.

Like my Chief Pilot then used to say about incidents like this: I am going to laugh my head off about these things, AFTER I am retired myself.....

Airbubba
9th Jul 2016, 16:52
If you land successfully at the wrong airport the FAA really can't take any action.

Not sure I'd believe that one. ;)

pattern_is_full
9th Jul 2016, 17:55
I loved the Denver Post's headline this morning (deep inside the paper, not P.1)

"Delta Err Lines"

Story reported there have been over 150 incidents since the "early 1990s" of commercial (pax and cargo) aircraft starting to land at the wrong airport in the U.S. - of which 35 continued to a landing; the other crews caught their error while still on approach and went around.

CHfour
9th Jul 2016, 18:42
When I started operating single crew charter flights 30 odd years ago I was given some great advice from a much more experienced Captain. He advised me always to set up and follow the instrument approach even in perfect weather to avoid landing at the wrong airport. KRAP had a VOR and an RNAV approach so no excuse for this whatsoever. The fact that they got away with this is irrelevant as the outcome could have been catastrophic.

The Ancient Geek
9th Jul 2016, 19:42
Heh - try single pilot operations in Africa in the days before GPS. If you were new to the reserve finding the correct game lodge strip twice out or three is good. After a year getting it wrong once a week is about average, there is always one that you hav'nt beeen to for a few months.
Nowadays they are probably doing better with GPS but one dirt strip in the bush next to a few huts will still look like many others.

WingNut60
9th Jul 2016, 22:43
Not sure I'd believe that one. ;)


I'm with you Airbubba.
Can't imagine that this can happen and the regulators can't see a flaw in the proceedings and a low-hanging butt to kick.


But now that we know that there has been 30+ similar incidents in 16 years then perhaps its just a cultural thing, entrenched, irresolvable ...........

Huck
9th Jul 2016, 23:57
Well for starters, I'm guessing the Air Force base is not in the company op specs.

And performance was not calculated for that runway.

And they violated their ATC clearance.

etc.

At least they didn't do what the ASA crew did while I was working there... take back off again and land at the correct field. That was malfeasance, not misfeasance.....

Jetjock330
10th Jul 2016, 06:59
Guess which one he should've landed on?

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz285/Jetjock330/Screen%20Shot%202016-07-10%20at%2010.51.50%20AM_zps9rltfkxo.png


I know, I know, I got the runway in sight Captain, I've got it!!!

galaxy flyer
10th Jul 2016, 16:25
Huck,

Might be in their Ops Specs, ithe AFB is both an alternate for KRAP and sometimes has been used during construction at the civil airport.

Second, the ND might have shown KRCA instead of KRAP, if there was a corrupted up linked flight plan or a manual entry from a bad paper plan.

GF

pattern_is_full
10th Jul 2016, 17:19
The fact that they got away with this is irrelevant as the outcome could have been catastrophic.In the abstract, of course. But then, walking out your front door "could" lead to a catastrophe. Landing at the correct airport has led to many catastrophes - no "could" about it.

What odds are you assigning? 1 in 10? 1 in 35? 1 in 100?

Here's a list of "wrong-airport" landings dating back to 1950. 92 in total.

http://www.thirdamendment.com/WrongWay.pdf

One (1) resulted in a confirmed fatality (B29 bomber at Ogden UT).

One (1) might (tongue in cheek ;) ) be counted as a "National Security catastrophe" (U.S. military officers mistakenly delivered to an airport in the USSR, instead of in Turkey).

I don't disagree with your post overall - but the "hyperventilation" in that last sentence spoils the effect.

Basil
10th Jul 2016, 20:05
I know a man who intended to land on the SW runway at Lossiemouth.
He had radar direction who said something like "Now joining downwind right. Call tower on ***.*"
He looked out to the right and saw the runway, called tower and was cleared to finals.
Upon calling finals he was cleared to land.
As he exited the runway he noticed the Nimrods.
He continued along the taxiway, had a good look around, took off, turned right and called downwind again, at Lossie this time and not Kinloss, and landed successfully.
No comment was made by Lossie, Kinloss or the pilot, who never told anyone for a long time until he told me.
Funny old thing, the station badge motto at Lossie is 'Thoir an aire' which can be translated as 'Pay attention' or 'Be careful'.

ShyTorque
10th Jul 2016, 20:56
It can even happen to the best.....

https://youtu.be/cpc6i2VifZ0

ZOOKER
10th Jul 2016, 21:13
In most of these incidents, it's almost traditional to flame those sitting at the pointy-end.
But control towers traditionally have BIG windows, so that those paid to sit inside can look out......And check everything is going according to plan.

Ian W
10th Jul 2016, 21:26
Sounds like you haven't spent many hours in a control tower with streams of traffic on multiple runways in varying weather conditions. Noticing someone who should _not_ be on approach can be difficult.

Julio747
10th Jul 2016, 21:34
And to err is human.This is something that some pilots need to learn here.

I see two types posting.

1) those accepting that pilots mess up every now and again, and using their mistakes and others' mistakes to improve their own game.

2) those who believe that pilots (and themselves) are infallible, and look for any excuse to blame someone or something else or "wait for the full report". It's called denial.

As slf these days, I want type 1 up front. Type 2 is a bigger risk.

An example. Flydubai, 12 seconds commanded nose down trim on GA, toga thrust. Official release. If you say suicidal, you pass. If you say, let's wait for the full report, you fail.

Landing at the wrong airport comes with some risks. But not as much as 12 seconds nose down trim at low alt and toga thrust.... The most important thing a pilot can learn is human fallibility.

Squawk7777
10th Jul 2016, 21:48
Out of curiosity. Would the tower receive a low altitude alert, if a plane is lined up with the wrong airport?

tdracer
11th Jul 2016, 00:36
New Boeings (at least the widebodies, not so sure about the 737) have an option that will give you a verbal alert if you're aligned with the wrong runway or the runway is too small for your aircraft.
I'm guessing Airbus has something similar.

Scuttlebutt for the Dreamlifter 747 that landed at the wrong airport was that the first officer kept saying something wasn't right but the captain dismissed him - Capt. was 'encouraged' to retire, FO went through some re-training before being allowed to resume normal ops.

Airbubba
11th Jul 2016, 04:26
Scuttlebutt for the Dreamlifter 747 that landed at the wrong airport was that the first officer kept saying something wasn't right but the captain dismissed him - Capt. was 'encouraged' to retire, FO went through some re-training before being allowed to resume normal ops.

Over the years that has been a common resolution for incidents involving alleged pilot error. Often the captain is near retirement but the FO has a lot of years left so it's worth taking the hit and getting reinstated. And, traditionally it was better to take some time off from the company than risk the wrath of the feds if the airline didn't punish you.

Gove N.T.
11th Jul 2016, 07:45
Sounds like you haven't spent many hours in a control tower with streams of traffic on multiple runways in varying weather conditions. Noticing someone who should _not_ be on approach can be difficult.

My 2 previous posts on this subject have disappeared so perhaps this one might remain and be commented upon. I find it odd that a military airbase isn't aware of the traffic making an approach to land there especially if it is a civilian aircraft. In these days of heightened security surely someone should have noticed; or is this a case of being asleep at the desk!

Hotel Tango
11th Jul 2016, 10:07
I find it odd that a military airbase isn't aware of the traffic making an approach to land there

If you look at the photograph above you may note the close proximity of the airbase and the airport. Therefore, the airbase tower must be quite used to seeing inbound traffic to the civil airport. If, as in this case, an aircraft makes a sudden approach to their own runway I would imagine there's not much one can do in the very short time involved. Don't forget that the aircraft will not be on the airbase frequency. Best they MIGHT be able to do is ensure their runway is clear and then just watch the aircraft land.

Lonewolf_50
11th Jul 2016, 21:02
If you look at the photograph above you may note the close proximity of the airbase and the airport. Therefore, the airbase tower must be quite used to seeing inbound traffic to the civil airport. If, as in this case, an aircraft makes a sudden approach to their own runway I would imagine there's not much one can do in the very short time involved. Don't forget that the aircraft will not be on the airbase frequency. Best they MIGHT be able to do is ensure their runway is clear and then just watch the aircraft land. They could transmit on Guard telling the aircraft approaching RWY XX to wave off/go around. The USAF is not known to be shy about transmitting on guard. :E

Hotel Tango
11th Jul 2016, 22:03
They could transmit on Guard telling the aircraft approaching RWY XX to wave off/go around. The USAF is not known to be shy about transmitting on guard.

Sure they could, and for all we know maybe they did. We don't know the facts yet. Equally there may have been no traffic activity at the base and therefore no reason for the controller to be looking out of his tower cab just in case an airliner, piloted by a qualified crew and equipped with multiple navigational aids might be erroneously making an approach to the base!

vector4fun
12th Jul 2016, 01:26
I used to work at the airport at the bottom of the photo. You'll notice there's a nice, long, parallel runway not far away at the top of the photo:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/Biggs_Army_Airfield_-_Texas.jpg/250px-Biggs_Army_Airfield_-_Texas.jpg

Desert air, visual approaches from 20 or 30 miles out common, lots of smart pilots lined up on the wrong airport/runway. A few even landed on the wrong one. But we did catch most errors before they became news fodder or reportable incidents.

Thing is though, I still recall my first flight into ELP, and briefing my commercial student that there were two airports in close proximity, and we'd make darn sure we saw both, and were looking at the correct one before we did something dumb.

neville_nobody
12th Jul 2016, 12:20
Excuse my ignorance but what is the norm for arrival brief and setup in the US?

How hard is it to tune up the ILS or program a runway extension? Surely that would resolve any ambiguity that would arise. And yes I get it that there are runways everywhere in the US but in this day and age to line up on the wrong runway is almost inexcusable given what is available in RNP capability.

Sailvi767
12th Jul 2016, 14:30
Pilots at Delta are required to back up any visual approach with all resources available. If a IFR approach is available it should be set up in the box and tuned. If not a extension should be built off the runway.
One thing to be aware of is that operations into smaller US airports is quite different then anything you might find in Europe. You are often cleared for a visual and released to the common freq or tower 30 miles out. How you get to the airport is up to you. Not that many years ago you could get a cruise clearance and it might still be in use. We would be cleared to cruise Bozeman airport from 100 miles out in a 727. Everything after that was up to the pilot.

er340790
12th Jul 2016, 14:41
Ryanair have been mistaking Charleroi for Brussels for years... :oh:

Hotel Tango
12th Jul 2016, 15:04
:) but that's only by 26nm. Frankfurt Hahn is 50nm from the city!

sitigeltfel
12th Jul 2016, 16:17
How can you lay that at the door of RYR when the airport describes itself as Brussels South ?

Brussels South Charleroi Airport (http://www.charleroi-airport.com/)

Hotel Tango
12th Jul 2016, 18:01
Because Ryanair "encouraged" them to do so when they started flying there? Same thing for Hahn and a host of other RYR airports.

Biggles78
14th Jul 2016, 12:57
How long had they been flying that day (sectors) and what was their roster like for the previous month? Could fatigue have played a part here?

aer lingus
16th Jul 2016, 09:35
ww.irishtimes.com/news/ryanair-flight-to-derry-lands-at-military-airfield-1.1289817
Eirjet flying on behalf of Ryanair lands at Ballykelly military base instead of City of Derry. 2006.

bloom
16th Jul 2016, 10:03
"How long had they been flying that day (sectors) and what was their roster like for the previous month? Could fatigue have played a part here?"

Hah! This happened in the US ! The NTSB here in the states is only concerned about the previous 72 hours and nothing more!

slast
17th Jul 2016, 10:14
Londonderry event actual report can be found at
http://picma.org.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/Events/UK%20AAIB%202006%20A320%20wrong%20airport%20Londonderry.pdf

captjns
20th Jul 2016, 21:17
Ryanair have been mistaking Charleroi for Brussels for years... :oh:

I'll throw out the BS card on this one being a large distance between the two airports and 4 letter identifiers in FMC for EBCI versus EBBR.

pattern_is_full
20th Jul 2016, 22:27
captjns - it's a sarcastic joke, as in airlines mistaking Crawley (Gatwick) for "London," or Grapevine (DFW) for "Dallas," or Ontario/Burbank/Orange County for "Los Angeles."

At least here in Denver, when we built an airport 30 miles out in the suburbs, we annexed the land, so the runways really are in "Denver." ;) Sort of.

Airbubba
20th Jul 2016, 23:35
captjns - it's a sarcastic joke, as in airlines mistaking Crawley (Gatwick) for "London," or Grapevine (DFW) for "Dallas," or Ontario/Burbank/Orange County for "Los Angeles."

There is a famous story, perhaps apocryphal, of Fiorello LaGuardia and his ticket to New York:

At one point, Fiorello refused to get off a "Washington-New York" flight that landed at Newark Airport in New Jersey. He was finally flown to Bennett Naval Airfield in Brooklyn when he declared "I bought a ticket to a New York airport." This was a publicity gimmick that resulted in the city acquiring North Beach in which an airport was built. It was renamed in his honor as LaGuardia Airport. There is a wonderful bust of him inside the Marine Air Terminal of LaGuardia Airport.

Fiorello LaGuardia -- America's Mayor -- (http://www.newyorktalksandwalks.com/nm/publish/news_58.html)

West Coast
20th Jul 2016, 23:51
At least here in Denver, when we built an airport 30 miles out in the suburbs, we annexed the land, so the runways really are in "Denver." Sort of.

Have you gone down Tower road of late? The city is quickly moving to close the gap. Pena is gonna have to buy and sell some more land pretty soon further out.

Or maybe they could build another E-W runway and actually use the two they have.

pattern_is_full
21st Jul 2016, 03:09
Well, Peña has been out of the equation for over 20 years. He left 3 years before the airport opened.

But you're right, we're filling in the 1-mile-wide-by-15-miles-long "gerrymander corridor" of former wheat fields we "negotiated" away from Adams County. And other cities (Commerce City, Aurora) are also growing out to meet the airport's borders.

West Coast
21st Jul 2016, 05:36
That's because he made his money off the airport deal and moved away.

tdracer
21st Jul 2016, 22:49
Have you gone down Tower road of late? The city is quickly moving to close the gap.
And how long before those new residents start complaining about the noise :ugh:

DX Wombat
23rd Jul 2016, 18:16
About 30 seconds maximum after they move in. :{

Super VC-10
28th May 2017, 15:12
NTSB report.

http://reports.aviation-safety.net/2016/20160707_A320_N333NW.pdf

Airbubba
28th May 2017, 16:41
At least they knew something was amiss after the 500 foot call:

The captain reported that about 500 feet agl he did not observe the PAPI lights; however, he remained "focused on the visual approach." At 2041:25 the captain stated "confirmed stable." The airplane was 1.5 nm from the threshold of KRCA, 8 nm from KRAP. The airplane was descending approximately 1,200 feet per minute, and the captain said "this is the most [expletive] approach I've made in a while."

Shortly after, the captain increased the descent rate as high as 1,200 feet per minute, resulting in an unstable approach as he was focused on the wrong landing runway. The crew realized the mistake just prior to touchdown, but considered it was safer to complete the landing at that point.

1200 feet per minute down low should have been a go-around, right? Is Delta stable at 1000 feet AGL or is it 500 feet on a visual approach?

They had the RNAV GPS 14 in the box but apparently chose not to use the guidance for the visual approach:

The captain switched off the autopilot, and directed the first officer to clear the flight director display.

They were using the Nav Display in rose mode according to the report. Wouldn't they have mileage to the correct runway or a missed approach point displayed somewhere on the ND? Wouldn't the airport identifiers be displayed on the screen or are they suppressed in rose mode? I've never flown an A320. I've flown something years ago with rose mode, perhaps an A306, but its use was discouraged by the training department.

Some classic lessons that will undoubtedly be momentarily forgotten by another airliner crew when the next wrong runway landing occurs.