Low Viz Risk takers!?

[Vfrpilotpb]

Good evening Rotorheads,

Thats the nice way to say hello, its actually very very misty and we have heavy dense drizzel at the mo, my location is 450 ft above sea level, within 1000yds of my office(from where I type this stuff) the land rises to 850ft well into the murky stuff, my ground level vision is about 500 to 600 ft then nothing but grey, and somebody has just flown a two tone grey R44 past my house at no more than 100 ft above me. Now it might be that this is some pilot who can fly with his eys shut, but even with my little experience I think this WX is a no go area for anyone but the highly experienced, I witnessed this guy come within a whisker of blatting my local electricity companies pylon, I stood transfixed and found myself waiting for the boom, I actually felt sick at what I have witnessed, if this pilot is a Pprunner, PLEASE get a life, and value the one you already have! My location is the outskirts of Blackurn in Lancashire UK, so if you read this you know its you, is your last name PRATT!:mad:

[Capn Notarious]

Now The Flying Lawer should be involved in this.
One.
Supposing the R44 was photographed and the
picture downloaded and shown on the pprune forums.
Q1 does that infringe privacy laws.
Q2 would that invalidate any action by the CAA.
Q3 would the moderator bar the individual that
submitted the photo: for not having submitted the picture
via the moderator.
Q4 accepting that a safe landing has taken place. Could any
passengers have a legal arguement in that, the weather and
conditions were those that a proffessional pilot: would consider
this flight foolhardy.
Q5 can the pilot concerned have any recourse to what
may be written about he/she.
SO THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS - WHAT ARE YOUR ANSWERS
AND FURTHERMORE DEAR READERS WHAT ARE YOUR QUESTIONS.

Best wishes

[greenarrow]

Well could this be the same numbscull who recently appeared between a cloud layer a few weeks ago over Preston.
Whilst I was in reciept of a Radar service flying one of HM Forces Gazelles (Yes single engine, none stab in IMC conditions).
The said R-44 proceded to decend through the cloud into very poor conditions below. It seems that we have a rather dangerous robbo driver in the North West of the UK who no doubt will appear in the statistics!!.

[Thomas coupling]

Next time it happens, ring your nearest ATC and ask for details of any Robbo's in the area. Better still complain vociferously...it may save his/her life!!!! :eek:

[Draco]

Doesn't sound clever, does it?? It seems to be a regular cause of crashes, with pilots not wanting to turn around or land when faced with worsening weather. We have all been there, and it's never an easy decision.

Remember that if you know the registration number of the machine, you can trace the owner through the CAA website

http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/aircraft_register/ginfo/search.asp

I think that there is a two-tone grey R44 based at sherburn.

[What Limits]

This is possibly the same aircraft that I saw going West/East over Windy Hill/Saddleworth following the M62 at about 100 ft (how high are those lamp standards?).

The weather was 200m in Fog at the time. I did try to trace this via Leeds and Manch ATC but no radio contact was made.

BTW, I was driving along the Motorway at the time!

[capt waffoo]

By the sounds of it we'll read his name soon enough in the newspapers.

[Rotorbike]

Hopefully, someone will have a little word in his ear before it gets to statistics!!!

:eek:

[NigD]

Two tone grey R44 (G-OLOW, unfortunte call sign for this thread or what) that was based at Sherburn is now based at Hawarden where it has been in the hangar for the last few months (and I believe still is) with no main rotors. I think that discounts that one.

The new R44 at Sherburn is a hydraulically assisted one with, I think, green stripes.

I'll keep an eye out for him as I go through Manc low level route and then towards Sheepshire, sorry Yorkshire, quite a bit.

Hopefully he wil be reading this thread, be embarassed and hopefully safer.

NigD

[Vfrpilotpb]

Gentlemen,

Well, after your comments it seems that we may have a dare-devil pilot in the Northern area, I hope I dont sound like some bleeding heart type, but to stand in the drizzle and wait for a dull thud made the hairs on my back stand up, not a nice feeling at all, the problem is, pilots like this chap will come unstuck in a big way, but at the point of no return he/she may also cause the loss of some totally innocent px or person on the ground, not to mention the damage to any property that could be involved.
It takes immense skill to fly a Helicopter, its is just a pity that some pilots treat this skill with such disdain, I would have no hesitation in turning this pilot in, just for that incident alone!
Sadly, I had some connection with R44 G-TLME that hit Winter hill, that was bad , so hence my anger at this guy!!

[Rotor Nut]

The Sherburn R44 is indeed silver with dark green stripes, G-BZMG

I sincerely hope it wasn't one of our lot...

Vfrpilotpb - since it was so low did you not see any hint of the reg? Probably over too quick?

[Vfrpilotpb]

Rotor Nut,
Yes it was over too quick but it was also very misty, and he was in it to the point were I knew what it was with the sound of the engine but could not make out the rotor disk let alone the Reg number, then when about 400/600 yds past my house he came into view just about were the pylon is, missed it and dissapeared again heading this time in the direction of the high ground. Despite all my worry about this chap it has just occured to me that could he possibly be instrument rated enough to fly a 44 in such bad viz, after all I may be worrying over nothing!:(

[Pub User]

vfrpilot

I think you'll find that being instrument rated does not entitle, or safely enable, you to fly in such conditions and at such height.

[SASless]

Ahhhhhh.....sounds like the good ol' days on the North Sea.....when men were men and sheep were nervous! My how times are a'changing.....how many old time pilots want to share some of their "VFR" arrivals to Teeside...Aberdeen....or Sumburgh in the days of yore? Ever "hover-mosey" back in all the while claiming good vis.....ever shake the tiles on the steeple at Peterhead on the way in.....dance with the pylons on the way into Teeside.....nah......not me! Do the ILS to Teeside on an Airshow Saturday.....single pilot in the 58T......only to breakout to remember about the airshow.....nah, not me!;)

[Coriolis]

SASless
Couln't let that go by without saying hello....
I've never come across anyone else who did 58Ts out of Teeside...would that have been -3 PT6s or -6s?
(caravan or the hotel?)

xxx C

[SASless]

Cor,

They were the S-58GT's with PT-6-6's....we had the caravan on the tarmac....lived in the hotel for the longest time....and enjoyed every minute I was there. There is a story behind the GT remark.....blew the doors off a Puma one morning on the way to the Ekofisk.....and DE got dubbed a GT instead of a mere T.


Nick Lappos would have been proud of me over that one!;)

[jumpseater]

Capt Notarious
Think I might be able to help with some answers:
Q1: No not an invasion of privacy, if the pic was taken in a public place, or i think from a place with unrestricted public access. Recent example from memory is photos of Anna Ford (ex BBC news Anchor) taken on public beach and published. She claimed invasion of privacy, finding was 'well you were in a public place, you should have thought of that before'.
Q2:Not sure, I dont think so, it would depend on the content of the picture, and possibly the medium (ie celluloid or digital). Perhaps a legal eagle can assist with this. The catch might be the words/comments submitted with or about the picture.
Q3: Dont know, I dont see why they should ban, as they currently allow links to sites pictures under Pprunes current terms of use, so long as the link meets those terms and conditions.
Q4:I think you would first have to determine whether the flight taken was sold/given as being provided by a professional helicopter pilot. My guess is that you would have to prove a breach of regulations/licenses, rather than whether a 'professional' would have taken the flight, as a 'professional' can make a misjudgement. What would pax sue for, stress?
Q5:Yes, if it were libelous/slanderous or untrue. He may however need a big bank balance to afford said case, depending on where the information appeared.

[Capn Notarious]

Good of you to reply.


PAY ATTENTION READERS Has anyone hung a digital camera on the end of huge lense for a 35mm SLR.

[STANDTO]

Digital SLR - see nikon -bout 3.5k

By the way, the geezer who nearly flew into the pylon - wasn't an electricity board surveyor?


just speculating.............................................

[Legalapproach]

Capt Notarious

Q.1 No. And besides which, what privacy laws? Ain't really any such things in the UK.

Q.2 No. Although sometimes there are reporting restrictions imposed by the contempt of court act, these relate largely to comment or prejudicial reporting. If you think about it, why are all those videos shown on crimewatch in an attempt to identify suspects if their showing would prevent a subsequent prosecution?

Q.3 Don't know.

Q.4. They might but to what end? Do you mean could they sue the pilot? Unlikely because negligent or not it's difficult to see what their loss or damage would be. On the other hand, subject to the precise details, the CAA might well have a case for prosecuting for negligently or recklessly endangering the safety of an aircraft.

Q. 5 See jumpseater's post above

[Vfrpilotpb]

Standto,

Good morning, it was weekend, and copter did not seem to have any " dangly bits", and having seen the Sparky lads a few times I dont think it could have been them, they always seem to be in B206 or A350's;)

[Heliport]

"Q3 would the moderator bar the individual that
submitted the photo: for not having submitted the picture
via the moderator. "

No.
But I'd delete the photograph if the a/c reg or some other distinctive feature enabled the helicopter or the pilot to be identified. And I'd ask the individual not to do it again.
Because -
(1) I know the CAA monitor the forums (and don't doubt some contributors work for the CAA) and I accept the CAA Enforcement Branch have their job to do, but I don't like the thought of PPRuNe being responsible for a pilot being prosecuted.
(2) Although Vfrpilotpb seems like a thoroughly sensible chap who wouldn't complain or criticise unnecessarily, this is an anonymous forum and I wouldn't want the 'anti-helicopter' crowd using it to cause trouble for a pilot.
(3) It's not fair to allow people who (effectively) have no means of obtaining redress to be criticised on a public forum.

[Capn Notarious]

Thanks again for all the wisdom

[StevieTerrier]

Two-tone grey R44 in the North... Well I know of one which is privately owned and residing up here, not too far from the Pennines. And strangely enough I have a tale of the owner..

One day I came in to work to be told that said owner had been in for fuel and had "landed between the JetRanger and the R22". I refused to accept this as these two helicopters were on marked pads which were spaced at the the distance recommended in the ICAO heliport manual. I know this for a fact because my Heliport Inspector is Gordon Bradley. Anyway, I checked on the R44 rotor diameter and the distance between the pads, and well..lets say if there was 4' either side it was a miracle.

Just by coincidence there was an insurance assessor there who had recently paid this "gentleman" out after he put the 44 tail into a fence. He took a photo of this landing just in case he had to face another claim in the future.

When he departed he took off over over the fuel installation, a main road and an industrial estate, completely at odds with he written departure instructions he had received previously.

So we have somebody here with a complete disregard for safety. Could he have been Mr. Low Viz Risk Taker???

Somebody who has s

[BlenderPilot]

Oh my god!

If people, pilots, authorities, over on my part of the world were as strict and scrutinizing as over there, every-single-pilot (all of them) over here would be banned from going near a helicopter again!

I think the only people who shouldn't be talking bad or chasing other pilots is, OTHER PILOTS, specially anonymously.

There are enough people out there who would like to banish helicopters from the face of the earth.

Plus you never really know what the conditions up there really were, I think we shouldn't judge others like that.

In my home base you cannot go in ANY direction for more than 15 miles without having to climb to at least 10,600 ft to go further, there are mountains after mountains, then its raining often, low clouds, if weather was such an issue . . . . . . I think I'de be flying planes, or a desk job, or doctor maybe, No I got it, Aviation Authority!

[Heliport]

Well said, BlenderPilot!

We have no idea of the ID of the pilot seen by Vfr. Judging by what Vfr describes, he wasn't being too wise on this occasion.
He may always fly dangerously but, equally, he may on this one occasion have carried on when the safest and best course was to divert or make a precautionary landing.
Perhaps it was a mess he shouldn't have got himself into in the first place. He's not the first to do that, and he won't be the last.

Let's just hope it was a 'one-off' which thankfully he survived and he's learned a valuable lesson for the rest of his flying life.

[What-ho Squiffy!]

Seconded!

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools. Who knows what the actual circumstances were in the cockpit at the time, and why he/she did it.

I am glad that we have Heliport here! Keep up the good work.

[SASless]

Oh, Crikey!!! The Sky Cops read these threads......lordy what was i saying....honest it was just mere fabrication about the scudrunning ....honest.....just making up a story to entertain the chaps! My goodness....I shouldn't jest so much....

...by the way...what is the statute of limitations on scudrunning in the UK? I am sure there has to be some special court that outlaws like myself will find themselves haulled before to answer for our sins! If convicted ...do they tear off my epaulets, snatch off my brass buttons, whack me upon my broad butt with my saber, and then break it in half and throw it out the door behind me?

I mean golly...gee whiz....the Sky Cops would stoop to ease dropping upon such an august forum as this to find miscreants to flog in public? Now I understand the uproar over our FBI being able to surf the net, attend public events, and even go to the public library.....where will this loss of privacy end. :confused: