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View Full Version : A serious crime, but how can the fraudster benefit?


Loose rivets
5th Jul 2016, 11:12
BMW car on the bay. Reg. clearly shown. High spec M 5 series. Looks nice, think I'll have a bash at manual gears again. Leave message via phone number to a bloke's name.

Nothing

Then, late, I get a simple TXT. Am I still interested? Yes, says I. I'm in Essex can be there in an hour. (near Chelmsford.)

A gilr's name sends the next message. "I forgot to change the ad. I'm in N Ireland for work but will send the car to you."

I now have an email address so the dialogue is longer. The written English is a tad too good for Nigeria, but then, maybe graduates have had to go over to the dark side.

All I have to do is pay Pay Pal. But N Ireland. It seems one does NOT buy luxury cars from there. But that's a different tale.

I search the bay for that kind of car, and finally, find the set of pictures. I say, set, because the dealer in a quite different town has masses of high end cars listed. They are mostly pictured outside a very pleasant house. Okay, I'll call him in the morning, thinks I.

This AM I'm on the case. Send another TEXT to the girl to keep things on the boil but also call the dealer who's stock picture was clearly lifted from his site.

Funny, no one answers his land-line. Funny, because of the sheer size of his stock. No one doesn't answer the phone with that investment, surely? My sleuthing stops here, because my calls don't show my number, but the same is not true for my mobile phone, so don't call the dealer's mobile.

Try as I may, I can't report fraud to ebay - someone with an IQ of 200 probably could, but I gave up after 20 minuets of circular menus. I call PayPal since it was suggested the money goes to them. They put me through. Well, that was nice of them.

Their fraud people now have the emails and the (hopefully innocent) dealer. So I can sit back and look at the car I thought I might own today. 200% the price, but well, one can only dream.

But what I don't understand is how "***" could benefit by telling me to use PayPal since the refunds are supposed to be solid. "She" even tells me the rules and gives me a link to same to reassure me.

So, while I'm arguing with PP and eb to get me money back, what's this supposed fraudster going to do to net some profit? Just don't get it.

vulcanised
5th Jul 2016, 11:23
My experience with PP has taught me a £240 lesson to avoid them like the plague.

Good luck.
.

AtomKraft
5th Jul 2016, 11:29
I once bought something on ebay- paid for it by paypal.

The guy never sent me my thing, and there were no communications with him. I tried to recover the money from paypal, but I never got it back.

You'd have lost yer money for sure.

END BAG
5th Jul 2016, 12:09
Same problem with ebay and PayPal.Daughter bought some UGG boots and paid £99 through PP.No boots arrived but got a letter saying the consignment that included her boots had been seized as fakes at the docks.They sent me an official letter from HM CUSTOMS which i sent a copy to PP but never got any response or refund,apparently they were one pair in a consignment of 1800 fakes that were siezed.Never used PayPal again.

Gertrude the Wombat
5th Jul 2016, 12:16
The scam is that you won't get any money back from PayPal. If you're really lucky they won't actually take any more money from you or get your bank account frozen etc.

DroneDog
5th Jul 2016, 12:17
Paypal has gone downhill rapidly, they used to be quite excellent in dealing with issues but since they have split form eBay they don't want to know about any issues.
Paypal are too busy promoting themselves as a bank, I have had first hand experience with Paypals apathy and its a growing trend on other forums.

Flying Torquewrench
5th Jul 2016, 12:22
If you read the money back guarantee by both PayPal & Ebay then you will notice that vehicles are excluded! Hence why the fraudsters want you to pay via PayPal as they know that the Money Back Guarantee excludes vehicles so PayPal & Ebay will do nothing for you.

I was looking at buying a digger on Ebay and found one which was well below the going rate. (Alarm bells already rang). I contacted the seller who kept pushing for payment via PayPal as I would get a refund if the digger was not up to scratch. Once I sent the link to the seller regarding the Money Back Guarantee the listing was removed within 15 minutes! The above story happened another 2 times.

Do your research regarding the Ebay Money Back Guarantee as a readonable amount of items are excluded. But similar to the Nigerian scams, some people will fall for it.

Stanwell
5th Jul 2016, 12:32
Erm ... Am I missing something here, LR?
Am I to understand that you've forked out money for something you haven't even laid eyes on - let alone sat in or test-driven?

pasta
5th Jul 2016, 12:52
Unless I've misunderstood, he hasn't forked out any money. He's walked into something that looks like a scam, smelt a rat, and walked away with his wallet intact; he's just trying to understand how the scam would have played out...

Stanwell
5th Jul 2016, 13:01
OK, thanks, pasta.
On re-reading the OP, that is now clearer.

Loose rivets
5th Jul 2016, 14:36
Yer, what pasta said. Though before I sound too smug, I did fall for that Windows support site. Sandwiched between two genuine MS links at the top of the Google Ads, its URL was part windows and a little part scammers. I hollered many times, why are you footling with my drives programs when I've said I'm going to scrap the drive.

I cut them off the moment I realised they weren't kosher - hard to tell when every message was typed.

Anyway, since then I've had two or three messages telling me they want payments for that 'support'. Before, nothing I could say would stop her chanting. However, this time, In a posh car saleroom, I made sure she was listening with words like, tracing. New Deli, Committing a crime. The police will be walking into your building. Those kind of words. For the first time she reacted, said sorry, and clicked off. I wonder if that's the end of it.

Back to cars. Odd lads at a Colchester place. Let me out in a lovely 530d Sport. Like new, and a fair price, but oh, too hard on my old bones. Why do kids buy skateboards?

Oh, I forgot to say. Thanks for all the heads-ups. An I wasn't aware PP was divorced from ebay. I can remember the merging. I'd have thought it vital there was a coherent tie to the finances.

It's a shame because in the US most Estate Sale dealers would insist upon PP. I bought a lot of watches to restore (the first Seiko Chronographs) and it all worked seamlessly. Back home in the UK, sorting out the duality of my life got good clear support. I guess that's all gone, though the distant, heavily accented, voice this morning was very helpful and as I said, put me through to ebay despite the split.

LookingForAJob
5th Jul 2016, 15:59
Paypal has gone downhill rapidly, they used to be quite excellent in dealing with issues but since they have split form eBay they don't want to know about any issues.
Paypal are too busy promoting themselves as a bank, I have had first hand experience with Paypals apathy and its a growing trend on other forums.Sad to hear that, Have used PP from time to time and only once ever had a problem (maybe 3 or 4 years ago).

In that instance I had foolishly accepted the default setting on skype to automatically top up my skype account from PP - skype account go hacked and started, rather generously, billing me for calls to some African country. I just happened to see the e-mail notifications of PP charges and managed to stop it with 'only' EUR 100 or so charged. So there I was, torn between cursing the loss of my dosh and being thankful that I happened to be sitting in front of the computer when the dastardly crime was perpetrated!

IIRC I found a telephone number for skype on their site called and got the account frozen. Then, after one or two questions from skype person to confirm that it wasn't my doing, skype contacted PP and, within a couple of hours, the dosh had been refunded through the PP account.

I was rather impressed. But I guess things can change very quickly!

Tankertrashnav
5th Jul 2016, 16:00
I've been using eBay for around 15 years and Paypal for around half of that time. As mainly a seller I have found that the emphasis has swung entirely round to favour the buyer, both from eBay and Paypal. The system is now wide open to "buyers" who will buy something, claim that the item never arrived, was faulty etc and then claim their money back. Paypal will invariably come down on the "buyer's" side, a fact now well known to the criminal fraternity who are making a nice little living scamming eBay sellers. Fortunately I've only been done once, for a small sum, but that, and the accompanying £10 "fine" imposed on me by Paypal was really annoying.

Caveat vendor would seem to be the appropriate phrase when dealing with both Paypal and eBay!

andytug
5th Jul 2016, 16:30
This is why people are increasingly turning to local buy/sell sites on Facebook and the like - Ebay is becoming too much hassle, postage is going up and up and buyer fraud is going up due to the aforementioned bias in PayPal.

gemma10
5th Jul 2016, 21:47
Go on get a 530d m sport just like mine. If I could post pics I would send. But dont go getting a manual-yuk and for heavens sake use a small cushion for your back, the seating is not comfortable on long trips as my back will confirm. Oh and dont buy 19 inch wheels with runflats.I`m wiser now. Good luck.

reynoldsno1
6th Jul 2016, 00:01
Paypal has gone downhill rapidly
Just done an ESTA application with the US Customs and Border Service - payment was via PayPal ....

Spunky Monkey
6th Jul 2016, 11:46
I am continually seeing items from my website appearing on ebay by scammers.

Even when items are being watermarked.

When I go to the effort of reporting it to ebay, they take almost a week to remove it.

Ebay is the pits and Paypal is just as bad.

Geordie_Expat
6th Jul 2016, 13:11
Go on get a 530d m sport just like mine. If I could post pics I would send. But dont go getting a manual-yuk and for heavens sake use a small cushion for your back, the seating is not comfortable on long trips as my back will confirm. Oh and dont buy 19 inch wheels with runflats.I`m wiser now. Good luck.

But other than that..............:confused:

BigEndBob
6th Jul 2016, 19:44
I've just had my Ebay account hacked and someone bought a hi-viz vest, possibly to see if the details they had would work.
Ebay were quick to spot it (how?), refund me the transaction and ask me to create a new password....or did they?
All seems ok.

I bought an alloy wheel from a guy, after three weeks didn't arrive.
I notice he had used a same picture from a different ad.
Told him my company solicitor was on the case with Police and Ebay...the wheel arrived a day later!

Nervous SLF
6th Jul 2016, 21:35
After reading the above stories about paypal I have closed my account with them.

funfly
8th Jul 2016, 12:29
Are not paypal owned by ebay?

G-CPTN
8th Jul 2016, 12:52
Spin-off from eBay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal#Spin-off_from_eBay).

Sue VÍtements
8th Jul 2016, 17:06
I found a telephone number for skype Am I alone in seeing the irony in that?

Loose rivets
8th Jul 2016, 20:42
No, I called it, and my phone rang. :}

Loose rivets
8th Jul 2016, 21:03
Back to fraud.

Still looking and fuel on board for a 180 mile trip to see a nifty 630 with paddles. Then I saw a car I'd given up on some hours ago.

When it came on it was a full 3k under normal price, but the phone wouldn't answer. Now Gumtree says the ad is no longer available, but scroll down for "more of the same". I did, and lo and behold, it's there. I'd buy it in a New York minute if I knew it was straight.

There's always the frustrating possibility that this chap may be selling it for the 1 elderly owner and I'll miss a honey of a deal.

Strange, this 'semi auto' has a very memorable out of focus manual gear lever. The polish and general condition really is commensurate with a chauffeur-driven car.

That is so odd. The gear lever shot has vanished. Maybe me, but I felt sure it was there a moment ago - a 5 or 6 speed lever in an out of focus shot.

I've got an address now - rather more ordinary than the one in the shot.


Taken off, cos the seller sounded quite nice. But then, they would, wouldn't they?

Nervous SLF
8th Jul 2016, 21:51
No MOT record for that vehicle registration number.

G-CPTN
8th Jul 2016, 21:55
Registration number: PJZ 4511 ✓ Taxed
Tax due: 01 June 2017
✓ MOT Expires: 02 September 2016

Date of first registration 31 July 2009

Nervous SLF
8th Jul 2016, 22:01
Oh dear I humbly apollogise I had used the MOT app on my phone and it
didn't find a match. :O

G-CPTN
8th Jul 2016, 22:20
My details taken from the DVLA (GOV.UK) https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk database.

Loose rivets
8th Jul 2016, 22:26
Perhaps private plates fool your app.

I always keep a couple of tabs open for the dot-gov things, especially the p/km since a lot of the cars I'm looking at tilt over the brink into 500 quid a year for life - as per my thread about unfairness. It's a shame in the case of the BMW 630. There are some nice older cars out there that are low miles, but fall into that trap. Pre 23rd Mar 06 and one avoids that swingeing increase.

One is exhausted and would make do with the little 318 if it didn't make so much fuss on an overtake. So many people seem to just sit there and not want to go much past 50% of the speed limit. My Steptronic machine unfortunately drops a couple of cogs and it must sound like a boy racer to the overtake-ee. I don't want to look like a loonie, but equally, don't want to look like the old fogey I am.

G-CPTN
8th Jul 2016, 22:45
ciKnHvnF8mE

pattern_is_full
9th Jul 2016, 01:22
Dang it! Every time I see this thread's title, I think it is another "Clinton" or "Trump" thread.... ;)

mickjoebill
9th Jul 2016, 02:11
In that instance I had foolishly accepted the default setting on skype to automatically top up my skype account from PP - skype account go hacked and started, rather generously, billing me for calls to some African country.
Same happened to me, default on Skype allowed e-gift vouchers to be made from my account They hacked my account, made scores of purchases and sold on these e-gift vouchers. They did it Friday my wife noticed on the Monday that the credit card transactions had gone ballistic over the weekend. The Skype account had a record of all the calls, hundreds of them over the course of a few days, mostly Africa and Malaysia. Took days to find the Skype telephone help line (funny that!) and they refunded the $1200.

Another scam;
My daughter was recently looking online for an apartment to rent and an almost too good to be true one came up on a respected and popular website.
Luxury, furnished at 40% below others in the same block. Unusually it had a direct email to contact the landlord. We did and she replied that she had lowered the rent further(!) and was keen to get someone in quickly as she had just been transferred abroad.
Alarm bells started to ring when I checked the company she said she worked with in Ireland, as it didn't exist. But the company was mentioned in live ongoing rent scams around the world on various forums!
The scam was to pay the first months rent via PayPal then keys could be picked up at the apartment next door. The price was so low the gullible wouldn't be bothered renting a luxury apartment sight unseen.
So if something looks good and the owner is abroad you should be very wary as versions of this scam can apply to many transactions.


Mickjoebill