View Full Version : The Beginning of the End for Fighter Jocks?
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http://www.omicsgroup.org/journals/genetic-fuzzy-based-artificial-intelligence-for-unmanned-combat-aerialvehicle-control-in-simulated-air-combat-missions-2167-0374-1000144.pdf
Lonewolf_50
5th Jul 2016, 00:51
megan, I have been arguing for some years that the F-35 is the last manned fighter we will build in the US. While AI may be an issue, the more telling point is that the next marginal increase in "fighter" improvement will be nigh unaffordable for a manned aircraft.
X-47B is the tip of the iceberg.
AtomKraft
5th Jul 2016, 05:48
Dont worry Lonewolf, you're not the first.
They said that about the F-15.....
in 1970
melmothtw
5th Jul 2016, 06:16
There are already a host of manned fighters in development that will enter service after the F-35 (KFX, J-20, PAKFA, ATD-X, FGFA, AMCA, TFX, J-31), and Airbus has just begun work defining the requirements for one to follow even those....
Airbus DS defining FCAS aircraft requirements with Bundeswehr | IHS Jane's 360 (http://www.janes.com/article/61628/airbus-ds-defining-fcas-aircraft-requirements-with-bundeswehr)
Ken Scott
5th Jul 2016, 06:26
And Duncan Sandys said the same about the Lightning (1) in 1957......
airpolice
5th Jul 2016, 07:43
As for the original question, I doubt it, but it might be the end for F35 style aircraft.
In the future it might be much more difficult to get such enormous expense allocated to just a few aircraft. I think the next big push will be a new F16 style of "cheap and plenty" fighter.
The inevitable political fur cup of that will of course be that instead of switching from 10 of the new 60 million pound aircraft, we plan for 60 of the 10 million pound items, only to be then told that we are only getting 10 of the cheaper machines anyway.
melmothtw
5th Jul 2016, 07:47
I think the next big push will be a new F16 style of "cheap and plenty" fighter.
That's what the F-35 was supposed to be....
tartare
5th Jul 2016, 08:23
Thread already running on this folks - see Robot knucklehead.
Mil-26Man
5th Jul 2016, 08:34
Thread already running on this folks - see Robot knucklehead.
Because its obvious from that thread title what the subject is. Knucklehead indeed...
tartare
5th Jul 2016, 08:57
Any fighter pilot or people who know a little about fast jets know what that term means.
Knuckies, truckies, fish-heads and chopper-pukes.
More or less universal terms among Commonwealth air-forces?
Ken Scott
5th Jul 2016, 09:49
I would say numbers 2 & 3 are fairly commonplace, but 1 I've never heard & 4 is more usually rotary-w***er! 'FJ mate' is how (un-amusingly & rather too kindly) those who drive pointy jets are usually referred to. But I might not move in the correct circles.
Tourist
5th Jul 2016, 09:54
Never heard the phrase knucklehead myself before this.
tartare
5th Jul 2016, 11:21
Courtney et al - or those else who've actually flown.
Could you tell us about the origin of the phrase knucklehead, knuck or knucky?
My understanding was that it originated from the pose adopted by Rodin sculpture the thinker - i.e, I'm a greek god with my knuckles to my forehead.
As in - more highly evolved than the rest of you... how do you know when you've met a fighter pilot - he'll tell you etc.
I first came across the term via 75 squadron RNZAF A-4K pilots - who proudly had a sign saying 'Knucky Street' in their crewroom.
I had thought it was a bit of a universal term shared between the Commonwealth airforces, but seems I may be wrong...
Maybe it was just a kiwi/aussie thing...
Tourist
5th Jul 2016, 12:51
Courtney et al - or those else who've actually flown.
Yes, because the fact that none of us have heard of your pet nickname obviously proves that we are non-aviators.....:rolleyes:
thunderbird7
5th Jul 2016, 13:46
Knucklehead has been around for years. Thought it was something to do with bone domes.
Never heard the phrase knucklehead myself before this.An Americanism from 1890 meaning stupid person. Popularized in the "stupid person" sense from 1942, from character R.F. Knucklehead, star of "Don't" posters hung up at U.S. Army Air Force training fields.
Everything Knucklehead does is wrong and ends in disaster. He endures one spectacular crash after another so that the students at the Gulf Coast Air Force Training Center may profit by his mistakes, and it looks now as if there will be no let-up in his agony. ["Life," May 25, 1942]
Sorry Mods, don't know how to reduce image.
http://www.pritzkermilitary.org/cdm-image-cache/p16630coll3111-1000.jpeg
itsnotthatbloodyhard
5th Jul 2016, 13:59
I had thought it was a bit of a universal term shared between the Commonwealth airforces, but seems I may be wrong...
Maybe it was just a kiwi/aussie thing...
Yep, just a Kiwi/Aussie thing.
langleybaston
5th Jul 2016, 15:42
Never heard of it. But then I only mixed [in a humble and menial way] with the likes of 2, 4, 19, 92 and 617, and then the Harrier Force.
Peripheral, then.
evansb
5th Jul 2016, 15:58
Knucklehead is also a retronym used by enthusiasts to refer to a Harley-Davidson motorcycle engine, so named because of the distinct shape of the rocker boxes.
It is also the name of a Canadian punk rock band...
Bob Viking
5th Jul 2016, 18:37
I have been flying FJs for a little while now and I have also never heard the term. As awesome as I am even I don't know everything.
BV;)
Union Jack
5th Jul 2016, 18:50
Courtney et al - or those else who've actually flown. - Tartare
Speaking of whom, hope all good since he seems to have gone quiet recently....
Jack
seafury45
5th Jul 2016, 20:12
My first boss in 1973 was ex-Royal Australian Air force. He showed me a cartoon poster of the various aircraft and crews, and FJ pilots were "knuckleheads" on it.
I wish I had a copy!
tartare
5th Jul 2016, 22:26
No intention to be rude Tourist old fruit.
Thanks Megan - that's really interesting. You learn something everyday - I wonder if it found it's way into the Kiwi/Aussie lexicon via the Americans in the Pacific during WW2?
Glad to see there are still fabulous fighter pilots Bob ;)
Hit'emwiththeWagner
6th Jul 2016, 04:55
Any fighter pilot or people who know a little about fast jets know what that term means.
Knuckies, truckies, fish-heads and chopper-pukes.
More or less universal terms among Commonwealth air-forces?
I'm none of the above (I might qualify for the "know a little" part perhaps), but according to my father who was in at the time "Knucklehead", often abbreviated to "Knuck", was RNZAF shorthand for a fighter pilot since at least since the 60's or 70's if not earlier. Still in common use in the 80's and 90's, but probably not so much in the 2000's onward I suspect.
John Eacott
6th Jul 2016, 05:08
They (the stiff wing drivers) were always referred to in polite company as jet-jockeys when I were a lad. Knucklehead is a term that I only came across dunnunda.
Fishheads was/is obviously an RAF term for RN aviators in general, much as we called then crabs, but the term 'chopper-pukes' seemed generic to most branches of most services.
But they all look the same at the end of a rescue hoist :p
Fishheads was/is obviously an RAF term for RN aviators in generalRAF, an uneducated lot John, fishheads drive ships, birdies fly. ;)
John Eacott
6th Jul 2016, 07:08
Then again, within the Andrew the term for all aviators was (is?) airy-fairies :ok:
Tourist
6th Jul 2016, 08:54
WAFUs is the more common term...
John Eacott
6th Jul 2016, 11:38
WAFUs is the more common term...
Only for the select aluminium death tube drivers :p
Lonewolf_50
7th Jul 2016, 01:38
Courtney et al - or those else who've actually flown. - Tartare
Speaking of whom, hope all good since he seems to have gone quiet recently....
Jack
I was just in touch with Courtney, and he sends his greetings and best wishes to all in the PPRuNiverse.
He is busy sorting out the how of "live in France" and "Brexit" to see which bits fit together. He will doubtless rejoin the formation soon. :cool: :ok:
Ascend Charlie
7th Jul 2016, 05:05
You can tell a transport pilot by the spread across his rear-end,
You can tell a Navigator by his sextants, maps and such,
You can tell a maritime boy by the Mars bar in his hatband,
You can tell a fighter pilot, but you can't tell him much.
Fighter pilots were always knuckleheads, transport pilots were Trash-haulers or Trashies, F-111 crew were mud-movers, chopper pilots were fantastic.
The term "chopper-puke" sounds like a yank term.
Union Jack
7th Jul 2016, 08:34
He is busy sorting out the how of "live in France" and "Brexit" to see which bits fit together.
VMT Lonewolf:ok: - I suspect that some of us are busy sorting out the how of "live in UK "and "Brexit.....:hmm:
Jack
Sleeve Wing
7th Jul 2016, 09:44
While we’re on the RN subject, JE, what happened to “stovies” and “cab-drivers” ? In the 60s, ISTR, the collective, “jocks”, was only just coming in then. :cool:
John Eacott
7th Jul 2016, 10:20
While we’re on the RN subject, JE, what happened to “stovies” and “cab-drivers” ? In the 60s, ISTR, the collective, “jocks”, was only just coming in then. :cool:
Absolutely :ok:
Stovies, jet jockeys, chopper-pukes and cab-drivers were all terms in use late 60s/early 70s.
But what did we use when referring to the Gannet drivers? (The AEW3, the only cab that slowed down at the end of a cat launch ;) )