Light Aircraft Down near Abergavenny

[JAVELINBOY]

The incident happened at about 15:25 BST between Abergavenny and Raglan.
Two passengers and the pilot have been taken to hospital. Air accident officials have also been alerted.
The road is closed, with two South Wales fire engines at the scene. Crews believed there were about 120 litres of fuel on board, which was contained as they stopped the leak.



From BBC Wales News online

[DaveReidUK]

Enstone-based Warrior II G-SVEA.

[znww5]

Hasn't been at Enstone for some time, was based at Coventry.

[Mike Flynn]

Looks like it might have been the short strip at Hardwick.

[Happy Wanderer]

Yeah, and I was instructing in it earlier in the morning. A bit shocked to say the least. 😟

[airpolice]

https://www.facebook.com/jamie.richards.106/videos/10208464868173329/


Video of the site.

[Skylark58]

Looks like it might have been the short strip at Hardwick.

660 m short? Really?

[Mike Flynn]

I was not passing comment on the reason for the accident. For a lot of Cherokee drivers any grass strip under 800 metres with three up and reasonable fuel on a hot day needs considering. As a long time PA28 pilot I view 650 metres of grass as a short strip.

They had a lucky escape.
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/12A51/production/_90096367_mediaitem90096366.jpg

[Martin_123]

Not knowing much about given accident, I can only agree that 650m of grass can indeed be short. One of the last flights I had in Cherokee we were just 2 people, but full tanks, I only got the main wheels of the grass in about 600 meters, but with that you need another 100 to stay in the ground effect and build speed before initiating climb

[Mike Flynn]

The port the wing hit something hard and the damage to both wings plus bits of wood in the cowling look like they hit trees before the aircraft dropped on the barrier? One notch of flap I see.
http://i3.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11525530.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/image1JPG.jpg

[Maoraigh1]

Port? Starboard looks more damaged.

[Mike Flynn]

I agree there is very strange damage behind the leading edge at the starboard wingtip. However that could have been caused by whatever snapped the spar which stayed with the aircraft until the end. Perhaps a roadsign underneath?

I was refering to the port wing damage to the underside outboard of the flap. It is missing the trailing edge beyond the ailerons.

We will find out in a few months time. I just hope the pilot and passengers are OK.

[phiggsbroadband]

Hardwich is near Norwich (England).


Abergavenny (Wales) is more likely, 500m x 25m Grass. The road is the A40.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itojBH03OtU

[Mariner9]

Hardwich is near Norwich (England).

Indeed. And Hardwick near Abergavenny is where the incident arose.

[Mike Flynn]

As Mariner9 correctly states Hardwick strip near Abergavenny is the place we are discussing.

There is no place called Hardwich in Norfolk.

However there are two airfields at Hardwick,south of Norwich.

That aside, thanks for the video.

[MrAverage]

Ownership is registered as being at Enstone.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Hardwick strip near Abergavenny is the place we are discussing.Or could it perhaps be Hardwicke https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/52.0851/-3.0625 (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/52.0851/-3.0625) ? The English seem to have some very confusing names for their places. Confusing themselves not least ;)

[cessnapete]

Re the strip condition at Abergavenny. I went in and out 3 up in a Cessna182
a couple of days before incident. Used just over half the length on departure.
Strip in great condition newly mown and firm.
Of course C182 short field performance is a lot better than the Piper.
I think some confusion in names. The local pub/ restaurant 50 metres across the road is called the Hardwick, not the strip? (great lunch as usual!)

[Duckeggblue]

Here it says a flying instructor at Brize Norton also.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj70ITMmcvNAhVqCMAKHUtmDWAQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Foxford%2Fcontent%2Farticles %2F2008%2F05%2F22%2Findy_video_feature.shtml&usg=AFQjCNFa2mzMY-F7VAW1AHQ7ybk3mU79YA&bvm=bv.125596728,d.ZGg

Hang on, Google will tell you any number of people are flying instructors.
Are you saying that this person was in the aircraft?

[Mike Flynn]

It is unfair we pass any judgement or assessment of this incident until the accident report. The important point is all three on board survived.

I was just suggesting the aircraft may have to have descended through trees to the point of impact on the road barriers.

[x933]

I believe the mentioned instructor from Brize is no longer flying. Last I saw that aircraft was at Coventry with the company that operates from Dak House, who's name escapes me.

[airpolice]

Eaglescout hasn't had much to say on this subject.

Is anyone aware of what the word on the street might be?

[Jetblu]

Eaglescout did post. I read his/her post. It was along the lines that echo alpha was bounced off with 2 stages of flap at the end of the take off roll, [common short field procedure] climbed over the trees at near stall. He/she went on to mention something about the ailerons, which implied it to be a contributory factor to cause the crash. :confused:

[Mike Flynn]

One notch of flap is OK but I have never used two. As I said earlier on any grass strip less than 800 metres in a PA28 with passengers the calculator is your best friend.

Anyone care to do the sums on this one?

[3wheels]

One notch of flap is OK but I have never used two
Then I suggest you read the flight manual before you fly again.

[airpolice]

JetBlu, I had read of a different concern.

[Pilot DAR]

I had read of a different concern

... And the past tense is the best place for that.

[tmmorris]

They've cleared up the site well. I drove past in both directions today and there's no sign of even a dent in the barrier.

[JW411]

Jay Sata:

Just out of interest, I owned a PA-26-161 for 7 years and I ALWAYS used two notches of flap when taking off from grass (regardless of the length of the strip).

[3wheels]

Jay Sata:

Just out of interest, I owned a PA-26-161 for 7 years and I ALWAYS used two notches of flap when taking off from grass (regardless of the length of the strip).

Ditto...! And incidentally always used 1 notch on hard surfaces for a number of reasons.

[OldLurker]

I hadn't heard of this one until the AAIB report came out today:
Air accident monthly bulletin November 2016
(https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/air-accident-monthly-bulletin-november-2016)(you have to download the whole bulletin to get the report).

The aircraft crashed on the A40 dual carriageway – the runway is right beside it. Luckily nobody on the road was involved. I wonder what would have been the consequences for the airfield if this crash had caused a multi-vehicle pile-up, as with the Hunter at Shoreham?

[snchater]

Two observations (no axe to grind).

The need to conduct flight training at licenced airfields was rescinded a few years ago. However the non licenced airfield must be risk assessed as to its suitability for training - I wonder if this was carried out?

The carriage of passengers( other than trainees observing) seems to be exposing them to unesscessary risk.

The outcome and consequences could have been much worse for both the aeroplane's occupants and innocent people driving on the road.

[PA28161]

I flew into Abergavenny from HG last October in my C150. The landing was uneventful but but the take off was a bit awry, with two of us, half fuel, and the C150's low powered 0-200 100hp engine struggling, we were well passed the halfway stage before rotation. There is quite a noticeable up-slope (or down-slope depending on which runway is in use). Sugar Loaf looms in the proximity and is a good reference point (as long as you don't fly into it)
I wouldn't care to try going in with my PA28 unless the strip was dry and rock solid. The guy who owns the strip is a really friendly chap (a farmer I think) and has a nice collection of aircraft based there.