UK schools and Brexit!

[EC DKN]

Good morning!

Just seeing the sad news today I am wondering what will happen to all European pilots under training in a UK EASA ATO. I know UK can be part of the EASA like Norway but what about if we want to train in UK? Will we need a VISA then? Things are so unclear now but it will be good to have a healthy debate on that I think.

Pd: don't make this debate an EU campaign please!

Thanks.

[Martin_123]

It's a truly good question! Well it will take some time for UK to fully leave, I'd say we should be fine for another year or two.

Even if UK decides that EU nationals require visas to study in UK, I don't think it should be a huge problem. I mean UK is full of bogus universities issuing visa recommendations left and right for as little as 1000 pounds, I don't think genuine ATOs will have any problem with this

Best thing we should do is take advantage of the weak pound and book ourselves a few courses ;)

[wiggy]

It's a truly good question! Well it will take some time for UK to fully leave, I'd say we should be fine for another year or two.

At least, from what's being said (by at least one Brexit supporting politician) it could be as late as 2020 before any "leave" legislation regarding migration/right to work actually kicks in.

[EC DKN]

Well, but the "best" (ironic) integrated schools are UK based! They will lose a lot of business! Hope so by the way. :E

[Martin_123]

I've just been informed that pilot courses or any other professional training (unlike academic) do not qualify for student visas. This not only puts flight schools at risk, there are well established IT training providers as well who's businesses can now be at risk

[magicmick]

I completed my PPL outside Europe and had to apply for a regular student visa so after UK has left Europe (at least 2 years away) then any European national wanting to complete flying training in UK would probably need a students visa.

This will also work the other way, consider how many UK students go to FTE for training, in future any Brit wanting to go there will have to sort out a visa, it will be interesting to see how their student numbers will be affected.

[Groundloop]

I've just been informed that pilot courses or any other professional training (unlike academic) do not qualify for student visas.


Not true. Some UK FTOs are approved to act as sponsors for Tier 4 student visas - OAA is one, probably CTC as well.

[keith williams]

If you do a google search for "UK Tier 4 visa sponsors" you will find a list of all currently authorized (2016) sponsors. The list includes CTC but does not appear to include OAA (unless I overlooked it).

When the government were tightening up on the issuing of these visas (in about 2008 if I remember correctly) most of the schools decided that it was not worth the effort. There was talk of the approval process including inspections by Ofsted, and none of the schools were keen on this! But things may have improved since then.

[Martin_123]

Bristol GS on their homepage say that they can't help with visas. I'd say my safest bet is to get the remaining modules done ASAP. I just can't believe the damage Brits have done to so many industries, it's unbelievable

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Until article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is invoked nothing will change. When it will be invoked, there will a 2-year process to re-negotiate everything, but I guess the Great Britain won't pull out of EASA.
If Great Britain doesn't want to accept freedom of movement, then I have no idea what could happen to new aspiring British pilots with their options limited to Great Britain (or the UK if it will still exist).
Current British pilots working and living in Europe won't be sent back home.

[keith williams]

Martin_123

You are quite correct, BGS are not on the list of sponsors. The only one I could find was CTC, but I didn't look very hard, so I may have missed some.

As I said in my earlier post, most of the schools decided that getting the approval simply was not worth the effort. At the time the vast majority of foreign students were from the EU, so they did not need the visas. The much smaller number of non EU foreign students did not generate enough business to make registration worthwhile. But after the UK leaves the EU, the much larger numbers will probably make the schools reconsider their decisions.

[EC DKN]

Anyway, already changed my mind And going to Bartolini when finishing my ATPLs as soon as possible!

[Global_Global]

When it will be invoked, there will a 2-year process to re-negotiate everything, Nope: once revoked we are in unknown territory and all is deemed void unless otherwise agreed upon....

[Martin_123]

absolutely. Even if the big schools are allowed to sponsor visas, the whole process might be too expensive and time consuming making non-UK nationals look else where.

[Qtr Life Crisis]

Sounds like good news for euro schools sniffing at the big three, especially reputable established schools like AFTA cork which noting its relationship with the Irish carriers and after its recent graduate employment success' could potentially project them into a euro training top tier with the likes of FTE.

[keith williams]

The process for leaving the EU is specified in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treat.

Basically our government starts the process by giving the EU formal notification of our intention to leave. This is unlikely to happen before the new Prime Minister is in place.

This is followed by negotiations whereby the terms of leaving are agreed between the UK and the EU. A maximum period of 2 years is permitted for completion of the negotiation. If terms are agreed within 2 years the separation takes place. If terms have not been agreed by the end of the 2 years, separation takes place then. There is a clause which permits an extension of the 2 year period if all member states agree.

So, it is unlikely that we will actually leave immediately, but will probably have done so within the next 2 years. This gives the schools plenty of time to decide what they want to do.

[parkfell]

I would suggest that HMG will take an entirely pragmatic view, and encourage such 'foreign' trade.
Appropriate student training visas will be issued and I suspect with practical transitions arrangements with the rest of the EU.

I don't think bona fide UK ATOs will have any difficultly at all.
The issue has been the "control" of Brussels, not the single market per se.

As to how EU airlines will operate, that is an entirely different matter.

Remember to reread this towards the end of 2018, and see whether it was correct or a complete load of old :mad:

[Alex Whittingham]

I'm struggling to remember whether we needed visas for European travel pre-EU. My memory is yes to passports but no to visas. Anyone recall?

[parkfell]

Alex

Just passport for my summer holidays to Spain from what I recall

Super Constellation to Majorca. 4 hours; & then DC3 onto a dirt strip at Ibiza.

It must have been fairly short as I recall landing just after the hedge, and turning left to vacate by the upwind hedge following harsh braking. :ok:

Then the lifts were turned off at night in hotels due to power restrictions. No kids food, UK style, just greasy foreign stuff:eek:

I don't think Performance A was part of the strip criteria somehow:=

[Alex Whittingham]

With respect, the core of the issue is this, Easyjet (http://www.cityam.com/244209/easyjet-share-price-being-hammered-warns-brexit-could-hit). The news article shows the bottom price for Easyjet stock at around 1300, as I write it is already down to 1060. The Easyjet board are probably not thinking about recruitment now, they have other concerns having just put out a third quarter profit warning, but I would be surprised if they don't re-examine their plans soon if the price does not recover. If you look at the stock over a longer period some analysts were forecasting a significant correction even a month before Brexit.

[Alex Whittingham]

Yes, I meant specifically Easyjet, as they are driving a large part of the recruitment through big UK schools. Quite possibly some other airlines will have similar issues although I think less so because EASY are unique in being a pan-european UK based low cost airline with its stock already arguably over the peak price.

Could we keep politics and the banging heads out of this forum, do you think? Facebook is doing my head in already. I appreciate people have strong views but maybe over to JB?