Still no GA aviation policy for the election?

[Dick Smith]

Am I correct in stating that the major parties have not come up with any aviation policy for GA for this federal election?

If so it seems mighty strange.

Does anyone have an explanation? What is Mr Chester doing?

[Plazbot]

Because its not actually as important as you think?

[Lead Balloon]

Everyone knows their policy, Dick: Abdicate all responsibility.

Simple! :ok:

[Dick Smith]

Plazbot. I have never thought GA is important to our politicians . Please check with me before you post erroneous information.

In the past even though it's clear they don't care about GA they have normally come up with some policy. Why different this time? Is it to put our more dynamic AOPA in its place ?

[Flying Binghi]

If they couldn't be bothered with GA then why waste your vote. It is time to vote in some new blood. There's some new options now...

The Australian Liberty Alliance has a fairly large list of candidates:


ALA final candidate list for 2016

* Kirralie Smith - Senate New South Wales
* Garry 'Angry' Anderson - Senate New South Wales
* Bernard Gaynor - Senate Queensland
* Alan Biggs - Senate Queensland
* Chelle Dobson - Senate Queensland
* Wanda Marsh - Senate South Australia
* Tony Robinson - Senate Tasmania
* Daniel Jones - Senate Victoria
* Debbie Robinson - Senate Western Australia
* Marion Hercock - Senate Western Australia
* Ron Pike - Seat of Farrer NSW
* Peter Kelly - Seat of Bradfied NSW
* Stephen Roddick - Seat of Lindsay NSW
* Carl Halley - Seat of Macquarie NSW
* Shaun Spain - Seat of Forde QLD
* Matt Darragh - Seat of Griffith QLD
* Caleb Wells - Seat of Longman QLD
* Rob Windred - Seat of Hinkler QLD
* Tony Duncan - Seat of Bowman QLD
* John Spellman - Seat of Fisher QLD
* David Archibald - Seat of Curtin WA

This is an impressive front row for our party which only launched on 20 October 2015. We achieved this with grassroots support from Australians around the country like yourself. There is no big business, no big union and no petro dollars behind us. We are a grassroots movement in the true sense of the word and every member has good reason to be proud - and this is only the start.

Final candidate list for 2016 | Australian Liberty Alliance (http://australianlibertyalliance.org.au/news-media/news/final-candidate-list-2016)





.

[mostlytossas]

May I suggest they wont get one candidate elected and therefore it would be a wasted vote. With candidates like a burnt out rock star, one can only wonder what he could possibly bring to the table.After all the last one was hardley a success with the pink batts fiasco.
Much better bet to go with the Nick X team. At least he raised the CASA issues with them at the Senate hearing.

[Flying Binghi]

via mostlytossas:
May I suggest they wont get one candidate elected and therefore it would be a wasted vote. With candidates like a burnt out rock star, one can only wonder what he could possibly bring to the table.After all the last one was hardley a success with the pink batts fiasco...

Hmmm... dunno, that burnt out actor Reagan became a reasonable US president.

One thing I do note is that going off the European and UK experience that political partys just like the ALA are on the up and up. I also note that it appears that the ALA need somebody with Aviation experience to set up their aviation policy. Probably an interesting opening for somebody with the can-do...

Aviation and Maritime Safety | Australian Liberty Alliance (http://australianlibertyalliance.org.au/values-and-policies/aviation-and-maritime-safety)





.

[Atlas Shrugged]

Does anyone have an explanation? What is Mr Chester doing?

Why would you not ask him directly?

[Dick Smith]

He does not answer me so a waste of time I am afraid.

[gerry111]

I suppose one week from the federal election, all efforts are being directed toward winning marginal seats.

[PLovett]

Dick, you think a GA policy is important, I think it is important, the vast majority of the electorate doesn't. That is all the politicians are concerned with. End of story. If you know of any way in which the electorate can be made to be interested in GA then let rip. We are all ears.

[Dick Smith]

The Barnaby Joyce/ Tony Windsor seat may be very close. Say less than a hundred votes difference.

I understand Tony Windsor has made an unequivocal statement that he will support Mr Xenophon in getting the ADSB mandate delayed until 2021 as per the AOPA requirement .

So far Mr Joyce and the Minister are supporting AsA/ CASA - and therefore the further destruction of GA in this country because even CASA claims that if complied with the mandate will cost GA over $30 million. No existing safety problem is being addressed . It's shear bastardry .

Very risky I would reckon.

Otherwise I agree with Plovett- that's why I warn everyone to get out of commercial GA before they lose everything . I see no light on the horizon. It's obvious now why the Bureaucrats in the Department allowed the selection of the current CASA board.

[PLovett]

Dick, as to the CASA Board, I don't think it is entirely a toothless tiger. I am aware of some of the views of the current Chairman and they don't sit easily with the direction of CASA. However, my suspicion is that changing the direction of CASA is akin to changing course in a supertanker, not something that can happen immediately.

[Dick Smith]

It was the current Board who selected and appointed the Director.

The director can change the direction of the " supertanker" by 180 degrees in 10 minutes if he so desired.

[tail wheel]

But only if the rest of the crew agree, Dick! :=

[Lead Balloon]

No he can't turn it around, Dick. That's part of the genius of the people who actually run CASA.

The DAS is always in a comfy straightjacket imposed by the legislation he's paid to administer. Those around him are happy to keep on legislating. Forever. It's a nice little earner for them.

About the only tool he can use to change things is exemptions.

Given his stance CVD, he will presumably continue CASA's practice of exempting primarily on the basis of the political importance of the issue rather than safety. The Coober Pedy runway width issue, and SIDS extension, jump to mind.

[logansi]

If we want some real policy we all need to move to a marginal.

[Plazbot]

You must have worked out by now that election policy and government policy are two different things.

[Lead Balloon]

Correct.

If, for example, the SIDS deadline had coincidentally fallen just after an election rather than during an election campaign, I doubt whether it would have been extended.

[Dick Smith]

I have heard that Tony Windsor is going to support the AOPA position of delaying the ADSB mandate until 2021.

Has Mr Joyce made a comment on this? Does the coalition have an aviation policy yet? What is the new ministers advisor doing?

[Jabawocky]

I have heard that Tony Windsor is going to support the AOPA position of delaying the ADSB mandate until 2021.

Has Mr Joyce made a comment on this? Does the coalition have an aviation policy yet? What is the new ministers advisor doing?

For Tony to do that he has to first win the seat. Remember he was a comfy NAT that turned over on the electorate. Many will not forgive that.

Next problem is even if he gets in, how effective will he be. By the time he makes any headway on the topic it will be 2023 and long irrelevant.

Aviation as a whole is not a political motivator for anyone. Nick X did some good noise making, but really nothing changes.

This is why the threat of smaller parties to the majors is a small issue only. Enough of us care about a few things, many are fed up with the elites telling us what we can and can't do, and a majority live off the public system either directly or indirectly.

There can be no hope in a system that has had its life strangled out of it. You cannot get any legislation repealed in this country, even when it makes complete sense. If you can it takes 20-30 years. The biggest exception was Abbot rolling back the carbon tax which I assume has happened…..:confused:

[rutan around]

The biggest exception was Abbot rolling back the carbon tax which I assume has happened…..http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/confused.gifNo not the only exception Jabba. Overnight Abbott made Prince Phillip a knight and that went well didn't it? It was nearly as sensible as stopping polluters paying for their pollution via a carbon tax.:ugh:

[Jabawocky]

I have been thinking this through a bit of late. We are ALL sick and tired of the LNP/ALP/GRN lot. With that in mind what will happen and what can we do to effect change in those who get elected. Remember the result is driven by less than 10% of the community.

Will any bunch of independents form government? NO.

Will the LNP win again? Almost certainly.

Will the voice of the majority of normal sensible and rational people (most likely you) be heard and listened to? Not likely to no chance at all.

So how does one send a message to Canberra in both the Lower and Upper houses? Here is my thoughts on it FWIW;

House of Reps.
1. Vote Greens last at every turn.
2. Next any extreme nutters like the coffee bean or sex party types
3. Next ALP or LNP as you would normally prefer.
4. Vote for the Liberal Democrats, Katter Party, Shooters, Fishers, Farmers Party, or whoever is acceptable if they are lucky enough to bump off a major.

Senate.
Know the rules, you can vote with just a 1 in any box above the line, you can number 2,3 or 4 and stop there if you like. The ticket says pick 6 above but that is not legally required. Or go for it on the bottom half! Vote for as many or as few above the line that you prefer.

1. Vote for a suitable respectable non major, Liberal Democrats, KAP, SFFP, Nick Xenaphon, Glenn Lazorous or even a good quality independent.
2. If you must, vote for the LNP or ALP if you want to give a preference to them at positions below the others.

So what does this achieve? It might get you some balance and reasoning in the lower house and the Senate. It tells the number crunchers that people are fed up with the political elites telling us how to live and the bureaucrats that we are sick of poor performance. It puts the majors on notice, they are already but the effect is really serious and will be seen.

Don't give the majors a free kick, and do not give your vote away, because that is a free kick as well.

[Frank Arouet]

Patrick Cooney (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://www.laborherald.com.au/author/patrickcooney/) • 29th June 2016

Labor will maintain strict standards over aviation safety and focus on enhancing the role of regional airports as part of its comprehensive aviation policy (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:http://www.100positivepolicies.org.au/labors_positive_plan_for_aviation) released today.

Shadow infrastructure minister Anthony Albanese said a Shorten Labor government boasts a strong policy for aviation safety and jobs, which involves increasing the role of regional airports.

“Aviation is a $30b industry that directly employs tens of thousands of Australians,” Albanese said “and is critical to the ongoing development of our tourism industry (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://www.laborherald.com.au/economy/pledge-for-a-northern-australia-tourism-powerhouse-creating-jobs-driving-growth/).
Quote:“Ensure Australian regulations keep up with global standards.”
“Labor has always had a strong commitment to maintaining Australia’s excellent safety record.

“The former Labor government made the issue central to the production of the nation’s first Aviation White Paper (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://infrastructure.gov.au/aviation/publications/pdf/Aviation_White_Paper_final.pdf) in 2009, which underpins our ongoing approach to aviation.

“Aviation safety (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://www.laborherald.com.au/environment/safe-rates-save-lives-and-labor-will-protect-them/) should be beyond politics and Labor will always work with other parties in the parliament to ensure Australian regulations keep up with global standards.”

Albanese, the Member for Grayndler, also spoke about the role of regional airports (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://www.laborherald.com.au/people-families/labor-would-convene-mediation-for-a-solution-to-launceston-airport-dispute/), having fought for Badgerys Creek airport (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:http://westernsydneyairport.gov.au/).
Quote:“We will also continue to support the development of the Sydney West Airport at Badgerys Creek.”
“Labor will also seek to enhance the role of regional airports in Australian aviation, including by providing greater opportunities for them to attract international airlines,” he said.

“We will also continue to support the development of the Sydney West Airport at Badgerys Creek, subject to the establishment of a no-fly zone at night over existing residences.

“Labor will invest in a passenger rail (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://www.laborherald.com.au/environment/western-sydney-to-benefit-from-labor-infrastructure-support-and-funding/) connection to the airport from the day it opens to maximise the potential for job creation at the airport and aviation-related industries in the surrounding precinct.”

Only Labor (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:http://www.100positivepolicies.org.au/) has a plan for the infrastructure (wlmailhtml:{7C1910CB-DF3E-4226-84F8-C7F044E31620}mid://00000006/!x-usc:https://www.laborherald.com.au/environment/infrastructure-at-the-heart-of-productivity-and-planning-for-the-future/) of Australia’s future.

[Jabawocky]

And Malcolm Turnbull has the answer to that…….some things will be said and not done.

That ALP statement exactly fits the mould.

[rutan around]

I have been thinking this through a bit of late. We are ALL sick and tired of the LNP/ALP/GRN lot. With that in mind what will happen and what can we do to effect change in those who get elected. Remember the result is driven by less than 10% of the community.

Will any bunch of independents form government? NO.

Will the LNP win again? Almost certainly.

Will the voice of the majority of normal sensible and rational people (most likely you) be heard and listened to? Not likely to no chance at all.

So how does one send a message to Canberra in both the Lower and Upper houses? Here is my thoughts on it FWIW;

House of Reps.
1. Vote Greens last at every turn.
2. Next any extreme nutters like the coffee bean or sex party types
3. Next ALP or LNP as you would normally prefer.
4. Vote for the Liberal Democrats, Katter Party, Shooters, Fishers, Farmers Party, or whoever is acceptable if they are lucky enough to bump off a major.

Senate.
Know the rules, you can vote with just a 1 in any box above the line, you can number 2,3 or 4 and stop there if you like. The ticket says pick 6 above but that is not legally required. Or go for it on the bottom half! Vote for as many or as few above the line that you prefer.

1. Vote for a suitable respectable non major, Liberal Democrats, KAP, SFFP, Nick Xenaphon, Glenn Lazorous or even a good quality independent.
2. If you must, vote for the LNP or ALP if you want to give a preference to them at positions below the others.

So what does this achieve? It might get you some balance and reasoning in the lower house and the Senate. It tells the number crunchers that people are fed up with the political elites telling us how to live and the bureaucrats that we are sick of poor performance. It puts the majors on notice, they are already but the effect is really serious and will be seen.

Don't give the majors a free kick, and do not give your vote away, because that is a free kick as well. Jeez Jabba I'd have to think twice about inviting you around for a BBQ. It would so boring. I find myself agreeing with almost your whole post. If you can't have half a carton of xxxx and a good political fight it it's hardly worth lighting the fire.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

[rutan around]

I predict that who ever wins nothing will change unless we take the law into our own hands. We should kick up a stink for 6 months and then unilaterally adopt the FAA or NZ rules. Make it very clear that after such and such a date we are operating under new rules and any one that objects can go r**t their boot.

[aroa]

Well may old Moon face Albo rabbit on about about the White paper (Supersoft).
GA got but a simple line or 2.

And as for Badgerys Creek...How long was he the Miniscule then ?..and only blew warm on that just before the election when he got the oik.

Just goes to illustrate the delusional buggers still think we believe all that crap...sure is the Age of Spin and Bullsh*t

[jas24zzk]

We should kick up a stink for 6 months and then unilaterally

I seem to recall suggesting industry action a little while ago. Got basically labelled as a heretic.

<<<getting the popcorn

:)

[Jabawocky]

I am with Rutan and Jas

Rutan, get the firewood, I will bring the beer…..just not that xxxx ****. Ok?

:-)

Actually we should do that. Ron's place is not far from you ;-)

[rutan around]

I think we all start off with that touchy feely view that that no organization can be as bad as some of the old hard bitten pilots among us make out. We feel that common sense and mutual respect will resolve any differences we might have about how to solve problems as they arrive.

Slowly the realization comes to all of us, some sooner than others, that we are not dealing with sane, reasonable people.

Both the upper management of CASA and the Politicians who are supposed to guide the organization are nothing more than overpaid self serving bludgers who think that the whole now rotten edifice exists solely to feed their overblown egos and keep them in their high and mighty lifestyle.

We have seen over the last 6 weeks a fairly strong move to bring about change. I personally have been to 5 meetings and spoken one on one with 8 different current politicians. Result? Half arsed promises from both sides and a winge about being finger pointed at Tamworth - Poor little petals.
They JUST don't care about 1/2 a billion $$$$$ being wasted on unusable idiotic rules or about hundreds of job losses and the potential for that to become thousands.

I am now of the opinion that we will only bring about change if we take loud and drastic action. We should announce that as of a certain date we are dumping CASA rules and adopting New Zealand's rules whether CASA likes it or not.

Then let the pollies and CASA explain why we should keep our rules when NZ has a similar safety record and a thriving Aviation Industry for a fraction of our costs and a fraction of our red tape.

[rutan around]

Jabba, yer on.
Rutan, get the firewood, I will bring the beer…..just not that xxxx ****. Ok?XXXX aint too bad once you drink enough of it.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/wibble.gif

Is the firewood for the BBQ or are we burning someone in effigy?
It's OK I've got enough wood to burn a whole team in effigy and still have a BBQ
There's also a bed if you insist on drinking that unstable rocket fuel of yours.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

[AbsoluteFokker]

I have a 120-litre left in an out-of-date AVGAS drum to bring to the BBQ/bonfire. Certainly more enjoyable than any lip service GA policy by any political party.

Did I mention in an earlier thread:
Jandakot charges up by about 5% across-the-board. Why: No reason given.

[logansi]

I guess I will put LNP above Labor, at least the economy will not get worse, that way passenger numbers won't crash and airlines will still hire

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Yesterday at my local shopping centre in Perth, I ran into Debbie Robinson from the 'Australian Liberty Alliance', Senate Candidate, and in our brief conversation, she asked what I did for an occupation.

Although retired now, I was wearing an 'aviation cap', and when I mentioned that I had been in aviation in one form or another most of my working life,
SHE started to tell ME about all of our 'troubles' with our so-called 'safety regulator'.

Whoever she has talked to has told her the 'right stuff', and she seemed keenly interested.

I just stood there and listened, and she is across it all.....

So, I am going to give her a go. Can't do any worse anyway......

Cheers :ok:

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Thanks for that heads up, Griffo. ALA just went to top spot on the ticking process:ok:

[Ixixly]

Can't say I'd support them sorry Griffo, anyone who uses the term "Islamisation" goes straight to the bottom of my list, they drop a few positions yet again when they claim to protect the "Natural Family".

I'd suggest everyone reads their "Values and Core Policies" before deciding based on their stance just on Aviation. I love Aviation, I love GA and I very much want a party that will work with us and assist us, but not at the cost of peoples liberties.

"ALA, we stand for a Multi-Ethnic Australia, so long as they all act like they're from the one ethnicity that we think is Superior and aren't Muslim..."

[cbradio]

Thanks Ixixly.
Im afraid I dont care what the aviation policies or knowledge levels are from a bunch whose headline issue, as plastered over their placards, is "Protect our democracy from Islam"

Wouldn't have a clue.

[sunnySA]

There is this policy from NXT.

A safe and strong aviation sector is vital to Australia's needs. Having our aircraft maintained in Australia is an integral part of ensuring high safety standards and trust in the aviation industry.

Examples of what needs to be done:

There should be an Inspector General of Aviation that acts as an impartial watch-dog over all aviation regulators - in particular CASA and the ATSB - to ensure that they operate in the public interest.
Implement recommendations from Senate reports on aviation and safety

[truthinbeer]

You have no chance of getting any change from any of the parties. You stand a fair chance of convincing independents of the plight of GA, and so that is how I voted in the senate. I don't care if it does mean it takes longer to pass a bill, I am sick to death of party politics over-riding my democracy.
No way I would give Windsor or Oakshot air to breath. I certainly wouldn't believe any promise that dribbled from their mouths.

[gerry111]

Well said, Ixixly and cbradio.

I agree with both of you and voted accordingly, pre poll yesterday.

[Flying Binghi]

via Ixily #37:
"...so long as they all act like they're from the one ethnicity that we think is superior and aren't Muslim..."

Where's the quote from Ixily ?


via cbradio:
...Wouldn't have a clue.

Yer not one of them wife beaters, are ya cbradio?..:hmm:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cUOd2Co1M0U
(Where's Dave Allen when ya need him. Theres a years worth of comedy skits to be made from this idiot khaledalsaqaby's one short video..:cool: )



...Meanwhile, back to the upcoming election - Thats the election likely in the next twelve months.

Until the Libs loose clustafeck turnBull they are a lost cause so I'd reckon with the current situation the Nat's are the ones most likely to 'revisit' the aviation subject. Remind them that there are many 'Other' voters they could pick-up from the aviation small business community.





.

[Ixixly]

The quotes from me Flying Binghi ;)

Though I drew inspiration from their "Values and Core Policy" page, this such as their desire for "Integration Over Seperation", which reads "We will work towards an integrated multi-ethnic society based on core Western values and individual Liberty.", that is a direct quote from their website. I don't see how you can be a Multi-Ethnic Society when you only want people to do things the "Western Way", that's saying we want everyone doing everything the way we think it should be done, not their way, we just want everyone to look different.

Values and Core Policies | Australian Liberty Alliance (http://australianlibertyalliance.org.au/values-and-policies/values-and-core-policies)

Having a read through their Values and Core Policies makes me want to vomit, they come across as closed minded and petty, they come across to me as a very PC version of KKK, rednecks who don't like others "that ain't from around these here parts..". The world changes, people change, resistance is futile IMHO. I have no problem with people wanting to protect their way of life, but not at the cost of other peoples way of life that poses no real threat to them.

Just to be clear, none of what I have said above is having a go at anyone in particular that has posted here and certainly not Flying Binghi, just clarifying that point.