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View Full Version : Is Political Correctness affecting Posting on JB?


Peter-RB
13th Jun 2016, 13:51
I seem to have been frozen out of one or two posts now for over 6 weeks, with the sign-age saying "you may look but not comment"...is this the way JB is going to carry on........ we might well be better of being "Great Britain out of the EU "

For in the GB.... freedom of speech and expression... is everyone's right.. as well as on Pprune Forums, irrespective of spelling, or insulting..or attitude's:eek::ouch:

G0ULI
13th Jun 2016, 13:58
Actually, freedom of speech is not guaranteed under UK law, precisely the opposite.

Sallyann1234
13th Jun 2016, 14:18
I haven't checked your posts, but if by 'frozen' you mean you haven't had replies then perhaps you haven't said anything worth a response.

If however you've been locked out by a mod then you'll just have to grin and bear it. Their word is law, end of.

Have a quick look through Friday Jokes and you'll see that political incorrectness is alive and extremely well on JB.

P.S. It's a US owned site, operating under US law.

ORAC
13th Jun 2016, 14:29
Does that mean it doesn't have a spam filter? :cool::cool:

oldchina
13th Jun 2016, 14:43
PC is everywhere and scaring people off. Even some fine aviation folks won't talk about Nigger's grave anymore.

SASless
13th Jun 2016, 14:55
Peter....welcome to Jet Blast.

PC....is certainly applied here.

As Orwell predicted...."some animals are more equal than others".

It may be US owned but it is UK controlled....last I heard.

CATIII-NDB
13th Jun 2016, 15:53
Sadly PC has infected and diminished the range of expression on sites like this and we are all the poorer for it.

I may not like what you are saying but I defend your right to say it.

Take a look at the comment columns of many UK Newspaper sites to get a broader perspective - It may offend but it reflects opinion: sometimes in the heat of anger.


CAT III

Tankertrashnav
13th Jun 2016, 15:55
Interestingly as I read this I am listening to Beyond Belief on Radio 4 where the question of freedom of speech is being discussed by three theologians (a Jew, a Muslim and a Christian). As this is basically a programme about religion, the question of blasphemy has come up. Somewhat surprisingly all three speakers have come down on the absolute right for people to blaspheme, and to offend people's feelings as long as they are not inciting violence. Worth a listen on BBC i-player if anyone is interested. Personally I like to think in exercising my right to freedom of speech I also consider what is or is not good manners. Taking Oldchina's point, I have no problem with the fact that Guy Gibson had a dog called nigger, but I wouldn't use the word when referring to a black person as I would consider that plain bad manners

CATIII-NDB
13th Jun 2016, 16:21
Yep - Exactly the same. CATIII

vulcanised
13th Jun 2016, 16:36
A number of my quite infrequent posts have been 'disappeared' recently.

Think I will go and join them.

Two's in
13th Jun 2016, 18:00
But there are also plenty of cases where some Neanderthal knuckle dragger doesn't understand that being told you're a rude ignorant [email protected] is not actually being PC, it's just calling a d!ck a d!ck.

VP959
13th Jun 2016, 20:37
I've been locked out of the Clarkson thread pretty much since it started. I've absolutely no idea why, but I know better than to even hint at asking.

You just have to accept that there are random forces at work that sometimes let you post, sometimes don't, and that you are doomed if you question anything about this.

G-CPTN
13th Jun 2016, 21:08
I have been excluded from the MH17 thread for many many months now for no identifiable reason that I can think of.
You have been been given some time away from this discussion. This is not a ban - feel free to browse other forum threads.
C'est la vie.

I blame the Ffrench . . .

hiflymk3
13th Jun 2016, 21:32
I think the mods are getting too draco

Pontius Navigator
14th Jun 2016, 10:37
G-CPTN, me too, I was given 3 days in the cooler but Rob moved on and forgit to reinstate, but on a rapidly moving story even one day not being to read posts destroys the will to try.

lomapaseo
14th Jun 2016, 12:04
but on a rapidly moving story even one day not being to read posts destroys the will to try.

are you saying that even your read-only rights were taken away? that's like a hidden file in your computer where you know it's there but can't see it.

Charlie Foxtrot India
14th Jun 2016, 13:40
When you join PPrune you agree to abide by the rules of the forum.

PPRuNe Forums - FAQ: PPRuNe Rules (http://www.pprune.org/faq.php?faq=pprune_rules#faq_pprune_rules_rules)

VP959
14th Jun 2016, 14:10
are you saying that even your read-only rights were taken away? that's like a hidden file in your computer where you know it's there but can't see it.
As per rules above, which are fair and we have agreed to them. I think that the mods have a challenging job, particularly in some places here, like R&N, where posts on a thread can be so frequent as to make moderation a complete nightmare (I have feel for this, I moderate a far less active forum, and even there it can be very hard to keep up with a rapidly growing thread where some things are out of order).

I suspect that it's also inevitable that the "time away" thing may get overlooked from time to time. A year or so away from the thread, where you can't even read it, suggests to me that someone's just been very busy and the "time out" may have been overlooked.

The forums I moderate don't have the "time out" function, and frankly I'm glad they don't. Administering it must add to the mods workload, as there are two actions rather than one; setting the "time out" and then remembering to release it after whatever is considered to be a reasonable period of time.

My preferred tool as a mod on another forum is to just lock a thread when it gets contentious, hiding the provocative posts, but I doubt very much whether that would go down at all well here!

Yarpy
14th Jun 2016, 15:28
'G0ULI' wrote: "Actually, freedom of speech is not guaranteed under UK law, precisely the opposite."

Incorrect. See Article 10 of the Human Rights Act 1998 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1)

Article 10 Freedom of expression

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

Unless they pass a law saying you can't say it then you can.

vulcanised
14th Jun 2016, 16:33
setting the "time out" and then remembering to release it


Presumably setting a fixed period in the website software is beyond the capabilties of the authors?

SASless
14th Jun 2016, 17:06
CFI......

It seems a bit odd that One can be given one of the "Time Out's" and not be able to access a Thread they started and be able to delete post the "Time Out'.

It would seem 'Fair" that if the Original Poster is given a Time Out...denying the Original Poster access to their Thread.....the Thread should be Deleted by the MOD giving the Time Out.

Or is that asking too much?

Flying Lawyer
14th Jun 2016, 17:09
Peter-RBFor in the GB.... freedom of speech and expression... is everyone's right.. as well as on PPRuNe ForumsThere are many restrictions upon freedom of speech/expression in the UK.
(G0ULI is correct.)

YarpyUnless they pass a law saying you can't say it then you can.'They' have passed many laws saying you can't say it.

Ironically, those who claim to believe strongly in freedom of speech often appear to believe in it only when they agree with the views being expressed, and are often the first to say that the freedom should be curtailed when they disagree.


PPRuNe
There is not and never has been a right to freedom of speech/expression.
When we register, we agree to abide by the site rules which include:
No flaming/personal attacks.
No libel or defamation.
No racist comments.
No offensive/abusive posts.
No swearing, sexually explicit or vulgar language.

er340790
14th Jun 2016, 18:23
I think some posters are confusing JB with 'Speakers' Corner'. It is a forum to give ones view frankly, not to vent ones spleen at the world without consequence. There are too many keyboard-warriors who would never dare utter such words face to face.

As with most things, play by the rules and it's a lot of fun. You can even learn things too... On a good day(!)

VP959
14th Jun 2016, 18:29
Presumably setting a fixed period in the website software is beyond the capabilties of the authors?
From what I can see there may not be any form of "auto release" on a time out. I've been locked out of a thread for over a year now, and the thread had virtually died and disappeared several pages down the list, until it was resurrected recently. It was only then I noticed I was still locked out of it. I can't say that it either bothers me or that I want to contribute to it or read it, it was just really an observation.

I say over a year, but I have no way of being precise, because I can't access it to see when it started, but the incident that initiated it was in March 2015, IIRC.

megan
14th Jun 2016, 19:02
From what I can see there may not be any form of "auto release" on a time outOne individual took exception to a post I made and ran complaining to the Mods, which earned me three months in the cooler. I didn't count the days, but I reckon the Mods unlocked the gate at the due date. Some things perhaps just slip between the cracks, they are a busy lot after all.

G0ULI
14th Jun 2016, 21:29
You can always just view the topics and posts without actually logging in if you need to check anything in a thread you are banned from. (Perhaps not the private threads.)

G0ULI
14th Jun 2016, 21:32
A good rule of thumb is never to post any comment that you wouldn't be prepared to see published in a daily newspaper alongside your photograph and home address. Anonymity on the Internet is a myth.

Pontius Navigator
14th Jun 2016, 21:40
Gouli, while your first post is true it is a pain to log out just to read one thread but then log in again for the others.

Yarpy
14th Jun 2016, 21:47
Flying Lawyer wrote:

'They' have passed many laws saying you can't say it.

Ironically, those who claim to believe strongly in freedom of speech often appear to believe in it only when they agree with the views being expressed, and are often the first to say that the freedom should be curtailed when they disagree.

That's precisely the point I was making. If it's 'necessary & proportionate' under the Convention to ban certain things from being said in public then, yes, that would be a restriction on freedom of speech. You can still say 'illegal' things, of course, but would run the risk of prosecution.

PPRuNe
There is not and never has been a right to freedom of speech/expression.
When we register, we agree to abide by the site rules which include:
No flaming/personal attacks.
No libel or defamation.
No racist comments.
No offensive/abusive posts.
No swearing, sexually explicit or vulgar language.

Well yes, but Pprune is a private forum is it not? So you have the perfect right to set your own rules and moderate your own forum. But saying that 'There is not and never has been a right to freedom of speech/expression' is simply incorrect!

All very topical though. Especially with cases like the Ashers Bakery in Ulster!

Flying Lawyer
14th Jun 2016, 23:01
Yarpy

I stand by my assertion that there are many restrictions upon freedom of speech/expression in the UK.

But saying that 'There is not and never has been a right to freedom of speech/expression' is simply incorrect!If you read my post again you will see that what I said is correct.
What I said, under the heading 'PPRuNe', was: There is not and never has been a right to freedom of speech/expression.ie There is not and never has been a right to freedom of speech/expression on PPRuNe.
That is correct.
The freedom is restricted by the site's owners and administrators.
(Understandably and sensibly IMHO.)

All very topical though. Especially with cases like the Ashers Bakery in Ulster!I agree. An extraordinary case. It will be interesting to hear what the appeal court decides.
Interesting article here: I've changed my mind on the gay cake row. Here's why. (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/01/gay-cake-row-i-changed-my-mind-ashers-bakery-freedom-of-conscience-religion)
I rarely agree with the writer's views, but I think he makes some good points in this article.

Yarpy
15th Jun 2016, 07:42
Flying Lawyer,

I don't think you have said anything that contradicts my comments in post 19.

But neither of us say it better than LIBERTY:

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/free-speech-and-protest

Freedom of speech and freedom to protest are closely linked – free speech would mean nothing if there was no right to use public spaces to make your views known.

The rights to free speech and protest, along with the right to form and join associations or groups, are found in Articles 10 and 11 of the Human Rights Act.

These rights can be limited by law to protect the interests of others, but only when the limitation is proportionate and necessary in a democratic society.

So, for example:


the right to free speech will not protect a person who tries to spread hateful lies against another but it will protect fair comment;
the right to protest won’t protect violent gatherings but it will protect peaceful protest.


In recent years we have seen a variety of measures introduced that undermine the right to protest and freedom of speech:


Laws intended to combat anti-social behaviour, terrorism and serious crime are routinely used against legitimate protesters;
Broadly drafted anti-terrorism offences of 'encouragement' and 'glorification' of terrorism threaten to make careless talk a crime;
Membership of certain organisations can be banned under anti-terror laws even if the organisation is non-violent and political;
Hate speech laws have been extended in a piecemeal way to ban ever-expanding categories of speech;
Broad anti-terrorism powers of stop and search have been used to harass and stifle peaceful protesters;

Protest around Parliament has been severely restricted by laws limiting and overly regulating the right to assemble and protest around Parliament.


I have always been queasy about the 'shhh . . . don't say that' culture wherever I have encountered it. As a Captain I expected to be able to whistleblow the airline if they were acting dangerously. As a member of the public I expect to be able to criticise the policies of the Government without fearing sanction. Had I worked for the BBC . . .

The problem that LIBERTY highlights is that the Government has passed laws that are so wide that people are not confident in what can, and cannot, be said. 'Hate', for example, is very easily conflated with 'dislike' and so on.

Oddly, I think that more offensive and unpalatable things are said in the public domain these days than ever before. Before the Internet if you wanted to say something in National media you had to get past the letters editor. No easy task!

Personally, I am a great fan of politeness of the type that the C of E promotes. Pprune is a nice, polite forum. However, having been a member from the outset I do remember that it didn't start out like that!

Flying Lawyer
15th Jun 2016, 10:36
Yarpy

There is nothing I wish to add to what I have already said about freedom of speech/expression either in the UK generally or specifically on PPRuNe.

But neither of us say it better than LIBERTYYou are entitled to your opinion.
I do not agree with all claims made/opinions expressed by Liberty, either generally or in the piece you have quoted.

Charlie Foxtrot India
15th Jun 2016, 10:42
As FL says, there is nothing to stop anyone here starting their own forum and saying whatever they like assuming they are prepared to take the circumstances of anything they or anyone else writes on it.

At Pprune, it is the (volunteer) mods and BB owners who get the legal threats when someone goes too far and the PMs when people are upset about something that has been written. Hence some of the rules.

SASless I don't know about the time out function.

SASless
16th Jun 2016, 04:14
Reckon you could find out and explain how it is supposed to work.