Retro painted aircraft

[davidjohnson6]

Every now and again, a major airline will decide to paint one of its aircraft in a livery dating back maybe 50 years.
Clearly aircraft need to be repainted on a regular basis to keep up a polished image and avoid passengers linking peeling/fading paint with poor quality aircraft maintenance.

Yes the spotter side of me likes seeing the odd retro livery but there is presumably a higher cost for the paint shop to use a retro livery rather than the standard livery and there is a risk some passengers will think that a 50 year old aircraft is still being used. Most passengers don't spend much time spotting or looking at aircraft photos.

So why do airlines choose to paint aircraft in retro livery ? Some senior manager presumably has to authorise the cost and non-standard image. "Because it looks pretty" probably isn't a sufficiently good reason for the deviation from normal corporate process.

[HeartyMeatballs]

I think a lot of it is down to social media and the like. You always need to repaint your aircraft every so often so why not a special heritage scheme. It will show off your roots and heritage and will likely get a lot of free advertising through social media. I think that having trendy/hip/funny videos (which are always shared online by the airlines) is all about marketing and not to get people watching them. I think that craze is on the way out as even Delta are now showing their new bland video and gone is the one with subtle changes and they've even got rid of Deltalina.

I agree about some people being confused or anxious about flying on a supposed old school aircraft. I've heard a rumour of a BOAC livery appearing on a BA jet. That really will confuse. I'd like to see a retro easyJet one. The one with the silver engines and the 01582 number on the side!

[Wycombe]

A 789 in BOAC livery would look fantastic I think.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

An aircraft such as the new B789 would be seen at very few destinations on the BA network. For greater visibility it is better to use an aircraft such as the A321 which serves a large number of BA destinations and would be widely seen by the traveling public.

[Buster the Bear]

I think a BA A321 in the Dan-Air livery of the 1970s would look excellent, but it will not happen.

Retro jets only seem, to be painted up in an earlier scheme of that airline with the same name, BOAC would be lost on the majority of travellers, just like Dan-Air.

[philbky]

I think a BA A321 in the Dan-Air livery of the 1970s would look excellent, but it will not happen.

Retro jets only seem, to be painted up in an earlier scheme of that airline with the same name, BOAC would be lost on the majority of travellers, just like Dan-Air.
Totally untrue. American have continued the US Airways tradition of painting aircraft in the colours of their predecessor constituents, albeit with American titles.

[EI-BUD]

Buster,

Dan-air was a particular favourite of mine and I too would like to see a BA airbus wearing a DA retro scheme, though I agree it will not happen.



Totally untrue. American have continued the US Airways tradition of painting aircraft in the colours of their predecessor constituents, albeit with American titles.

Philbky,
I'd be inclined to say that the American V UK situations are a bit different. The US have a huge home or domestic market where most of the retro scheme represent airlines that would have been well know. Most of BA's flying is international and outside of the UK most would not know who Dan-air or BOAC are for that matter. Hence, I'd be in agreement with Buster and I guess it comes down to brand building and the value add from such a paint job, be hard to see where they could gain anything. Whereas in the US adorning the schemes of well liked by gone airlines could be good to enhance the likes of say AA. Just my perspective.

EI-BUD

[ETOPS]

I agree about some people being confused or anxious about flying on a supposed old school aircraft.

Was sat behind a passenger making a 'phone call as we were boarding an EMB-145 recently. He was loudly complaining to whoever he was calling that they had "stuck him on a 50 year old BAC 1-11".............:eek:

[philbky]

Buster,

Dan-air was a particular favourite of mine and I too would like to see a BA airbus wearing a DA retro scheme, though I agree it will not happen.




Philbky,
I'd be inclined to say that the American V UK situations are a bit different. The US have a huge home or domestic market where most of the retro scheme represent airlines that would have been well know. Most of BA's flying is international and outside of the UK most would not know who Dan-air or BOAC are for that matter. Hence, I'd be in agreement with Buster and I guess it comes down to brand building and the value add from such a paint job, be hard to see where they could gain anything. Whereas in the US adorning the schemes of well liked by gone airlines could be good to enhance the likes of say AA. Just my perspective.

EI-BUD
There's a good deal of truth in the distinction between the markets served by US and UK airlines with regard to retro schemes and it is interesting that AA and US Air before them have kept retro schemes on short/medium haul aircraft and rarely use them to Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean.

The point I was making was the first phrase of Buster'second paragraph was an incorrect generalisation.

[PAXboy]

If BA were to join the fashion for old paint jobs - none would predate the 1974 merger. Simple fact of life.

[Preon]

If BA were to join the fashion for old paint jobs - none would predate the 1974 merger. Simple fact of life.

Or funds permitting you restore and fly a vintage airliner in original livery for example Aer Lingus Rapide or the Lufthansa 'Super Connie' under rebuild.
I'd agree a BOAC scheme might confuse in the USA however it took a few years for the lobby guys in The Lexington to drop the cry for 'Bow-Ack' bags.

[Mooncrest]

A handful of BA Airbus narrowbodies painted in Northeast and Cambrian colours would be very appealing but may have limited recognition beyond Newcastle,Leeds and Manchester shuttle flights. I would like to have seen this done when BA resumed Heathrow - Leeds in 2012. I can but hope.

[shamrock7seal]

David,

Mostly it's down to creating publicity in celebration of a major milestone or anniversary.

It is certainly a way for the airline to generate news out of nothing so the expense of doing so by far pays for itself.

Personally I want to see a 787 in landor livery

[philbky]

Preon, as late as 1987 the mechanical departure boards at Washington Dulles had BOAC light blue tags which could be seen when the boards flipped over and sometimes were used for BA flights.

[DaveReidUK]

Preon, as late as 1987 the mechanical departure boards at Washington Dulles had BOAC light blue tags which could be seen when the boards flipped over and sometimes were used for BA flights.

The vestiges of the 1974 BEA/BOAC merger to form BA were visible within the company for many years after that, if you knew where to look.

In fact some are arguably still present today, for example if you board a BA flight numbered below BA300, you're flying what would have been a BOAC route, and if your flight number is odd then you're outbound from LHR. Conversely, you're on a route in BEA's empire if it's BA300 and upwards, and outbounds are even numbered.

[hiflymk3]

I prefer the old classic liveries, they were distinctive and restrained, three of four colours divided by a 'cheat' line along the windows and a widget and refined logo. Think of the Pan Am, TWA and Continental globes, the JAL crane and not least the BOAC Speedbird. The BA Landor livery looked classy compared to the soggy dishcloth on the tail that replaced it.

These days they are imitations of cheap soft drinks cans. It is either colours splashed on or overall white looking like a tube of toothpaste.

What's the difference between a budget airliner and a tube of toothpaste?

You squeeze the contents out of a tube of toothpaste.

[Stanwell]

In recent times, Qantas had presented one of its new aircraft in a retro livery. It looked quite smart, too (IMHO).
Public reaction had been so favourable that they did a second one in an even earlier scheme.
There we go, you see.

[crewmeal]

The problem with painting an aircraft in BOAC retro livery is there aren't many people left on the planet who would know what it was, unless you use the blue stripe and 'Speedbird' gold tail with the words 'British Airways' instead of BOAC, which in my humble opinion was ghastly!

[GLOworm]

About six years they put a 757 in pre-Landor livery to mark the end of its service. It's easily searchable online.

[PAXboy]

Stanwell In recent times, Qantas had presented one of its new aircraft in a retro livery. It looked quite smart, too QF have the advantage of a very large domestic network (as USA) so they know that the recognition will be high.

I saw this 738 at Brisbane in early April. Sorry it's rather a small image;

[Stanwell]

Nice pic, PAXboy.
That's the scheme used when QF's 707s entered service - 1959, I think.

[PAXboy]

Thanks Stanwell. It's the first time I've used the new picture attachment and the size limitations got me but if you click on the thumbnail, it opens OK.

I had just arrived at BNE from CNS and was walking to a connection when I saw it and took a quick snap.

[Max Angle]

The only decent one I have seen so far is the Lufty A321, looks lovely.

[davidjohnson6]

Would it be possible to gently nudge the subject towards *why* an airline would choose to paint an aircraft in retro livery from a business perspective, rather than talking about what livery one particularly likes visually ?

[PAXboy]

I think Shamrock answered that in post #13. Publicity, nothing else. Amending old schemes to new shaped aircraft and making a one off is money. Nothing short of a big anniversary or the Olympics will prise the money out of the Board. Then the PR dept have to work very hard to prove that it did justify the cost.

[DaveReidUK]

Would it be possible to gently nudge the subject towards *why* an airline would choose to paint an aircraft in retro livery from a business perspective, rather than talking about what livery one particularly likes visually ?

Painting an aircraft in a retro scheme immediately differentiates your airline from upstart competitors who haven't been around long enough to have been through any changes of livery. :O

[kcockayne]

True, but that hasn't stopped the "stampede" to EZY,RYR & WZZ.

[getonittt]

The only decent one I have seen so far is the Lufty A321, looks lovely.


And you have not seen the 747-800 in the 1968 scheme of their first jumbo? It is a classic look , when airline livery included cheatlines...remember them?

[WHBM]

If BA were to join the fashion for old paint jobs - none would predate the 1974 merger. Simple fact of life.
Not so
https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airteamimages.com%2Fpics%2F63 %2F63222_800.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airteamimages.com%2Flockheed-10-electra_G-AEPN_british-airways-ltd_63222.html&docid=52bjllm24Ta9cM&tbnid=7sSKMyKCH0VYMM%3A&w=600&h=420&bih=628&biw=1366&ved=0ahUKEwjrspqS1a7NAhUiIMAKHXHhD14QMwgiKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

In fact some are arguably still present today, for example if you board a BA flight numbered below BA300, you're flying what would have been a BOAC route, and if your flight number is odd then you're outbound from LHR. Conversely, you're on a route in BEA's empire if it's BA300 and upwards, and outbounds are even numbered.
Actually that's not quite the case; BA flights were renumbered into this series some time in the early 1980s. BOAC and initial BA longhaul flights had quite high flight numbers - transatlantics were numbered in the BA500 and upwards, while Australia was BA900 and up. I'm not sure if there was an effort to avoid duplication between BEA and BOAC.

[DaveReidUK]

Actually that's not quite the case; BA flights were renumbered into this series some time in the early 1980s. BOAC and initial BA longhaul flights had quite high flight numbers - transatlantics were numbered in the BA500 and upwards, while Australia was BA900 and up. I'm not sure if there was an effort to avoid duplication between BEA and BOAC.

That's true, in fact I seem to recall that BA went through several iterations before settling on the current schema that puts shorthaul and longhaul routes in completely separate flight number ranges.

I should add, of course that the BA300+ demarcation only applies to Heathrow routes and not to Gatwick services, nor obviously to marketing flight numbers on codeshare flights.

[PAXboy]

WHBM, I take your point but I was referring to the grand merger that was made in 1974. Given that BA has a considerable preponderance of lh routes, it would be very confusing for the pax. As we saw with the multi-coloured 'ethnic livery' tails. I was one of the few who thought it brilliant.

[Preon]

Every now and again, a major airline will decide to paint one of its aircraft in a livery dating back maybe 50 years.
Clearly aircraft need to be repainted on a regular basis to keep up a polished image and avoid passengers linking peeling/fading paint with poor quality aircraft maintenance.

Yes the spotter side of me likes seeing the odd retro livery but there is presumably a higher cost for the paint shop to use a retro livery rather than the standard livery and there is a risk some passengers will think that a 50 year old aircraft is still being used. Most passengers don't spend much time spotting or looking at aircraft photos.

So why do airlines choose to paint aircraft in retro livery ? Some senior manager presumably has to authorise the cost and non-standard image. "Because it looks pretty" probably isn't a sufficiently good reason for the deviation from normal corporate process.

Interesting that commercial aviation is not alone in occasionally recognising significant 'heritage' moments whilst strengthening it's current brand image.
GBrf the rail freight company has finished its final Class 66 loco delivery in the Brunswick Green livery of steam loco Standard Class 9F 'Evening Star' a type that hauled heavy freight and was the final steam loco built in Britain.
The 9F now resides in the NRM York where it may be joined in forty years by the American built diesel loco, which according to press reports has already been gifted for future preservation.
I guess it will outlive most of today's airliners too.

[PAXboy]

I saw reference to a new one-off paint scheme that KLM has done for Kings Day. This followed some PR research and you can search for their 777-306ER PH-BVA and it's orange makeover, rolled out a few days ago. I think it looks very good but you get an idea of the cost when the article said: It took a team of 35 people four days to spray on the orange livery, with 335 litres of paint used.Not to mention having the machine off the line for four days! Leave alone the design and planning cost.

Of course, nowadays there is the whole YouTube timelapse promotion and so on to gain extra value but the PR people have to be sure of their ground. (pun intended :O)