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View Full Version : Why is it ok to display the US flag backwards, but not upside down?


Sue VÍtements
8th Jun 2016, 17:06
Unless in distress of course, THEN it's ok.











(allegedly)

chuks
8th Jun 2016, 17:56
Here are government guidelines for the display of the flag: http://www.va.gov/opa/publications/celebrate/flagdisplay.pdf

On a flat surface the flag should normally have its union on the upper left, whether it's hung vertically or horizontally.

Are you referring here to the way that the union of a flag sticker will be on the upper right on the right side of an aircraft, for instance?

That's not a flag as such, and I think it's simply a matter of style. Since the eyelets are on the vertical edge with the union, that edge would be into the wind when the flag is flown. The sticker simply duplicates the look of a real flag being viewed as flown, rather than the look of a flag being displayed on a flat surface, hung horizontally, when all you would see is its left side. Of course, hung vertically the right side would be in view.

On aircraft you normally would see the flag displayed horizontally, left side showing on the left side of the aircraft, right side showing on the right side of the aircraft so that it does not appear to be flying against the wind.

Sue VÍtements
8th Jun 2016, 19:46
That's it?

Two hours and only ONE reply ... and it's a SENSIBLE one?


I though this was JetBlast :(

West Coast
8th Jun 2016, 20:18
We're you looking for a bun fight?

Checkboard
8th Jun 2016, 20:50
What you got against buns? :mad:


:p

Shack37
8th Jun 2016, 21:20
What you got against buns? http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif



How Cheeky

rab-k
8th Jun 2016, 21:45
Pity some can't fly the flag of the 51st State the right way up...

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02167/obama-cameron-flag_2167110k.jpg

Buns incoming... :)

yotty
9th Jun 2016, 07:41
Easy guide to the display of the Union Flag British Flag Protocol - The Flag Institute (http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british-flags/flying-flags-in-the-united-kingdom/british-flag-protocol/) :ok:

WeeJeem
9th Jun 2016, 08:27
Unless in distress of course, THEN it's ok.

(allegedly)

Because it's a rule - and to quote Douglas Bader:
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools." :cool:

Cazalet33
9th Jun 2016, 09:14
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/22/article-0-1ADF673300000578-814_634x422.jpg

chuks
9th Jun 2016, 10:29
The black cab is upside down but the Union Flag is rightside-up. How did they do that?

I had a colleague who was a former Marine. He told me about the morning that the color guard hoisted the flag upside down there at Quantico. The RSM had words with them about that, when stripes were lost.

yellowtriumph
9th Jun 2016, 10:56
The black cab is upside down but the Union Flag is rightside-up. How did they do that?

I had a colleague who was a former Marine. He told me about the morning that the color guard hoisted the flag upside down there at Quantico. The RSM had words with them about that, when stripes were lost.
The union flag looks the same even if it is rotated through 180 degrees.

(I guess the cabbie was not on the meter and was trying to charge too much)

lomapaseo
9th Jun 2016, 13:00
What in heavens name is going on that photo

The flames in the middle appear from a highly volatile source while the flames off to the side seem to contain sparks.

Was metal and electricity involved?

Sue VÍtements
9th Jun 2016, 13:07
It's probably an advert for Uber

rab-k
9th Jun 2016, 13:50
Film set more like, you can see the gas line running up and behind the front wheel. Not a pane of glass bust so carefully placed to rest. Probably for "London Has Fallen", a Bond movie or similar. The original version was better; didn't matter which way up...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Scottish_Union_Flag_-_detail.JPG

Sue VÍtements
9th Jun 2016, 13:56
[thread drift]

The flag might start looking like that again soon depending on what happens with Brexit - then devolve back to the St George cross, after that who knows ... the red rose of Lancashire again?

[/thread drift]

Yes I see the fuel line, but I also see what looks like a busted windshield. What gets me is ... why are the two people just standing there? Shouldn't they at least be looking at the pyro ... or running away?


Also, bearing in mind how particular Flag designers are, I wonder why the Saltair lies over the St George? It's not how the union flag ended up after the Irish flag was added - and in fact wasn't how the 1606 Great Union Flag was either

ExXB
9th Jun 2016, 14:19
It is perfectly acceptable to fly the Swiss flag upside down and/or backwards. However it is NOT recommended to do as a sign of distress.

SilsoeSid
9th Jun 2016, 14:22
... one of the classic Top Gear-isms that were a regular feature, however the flag was always the right way up when it counted.

ill9BF9oRII

rab-k
9th Jun 2016, 15:20
Drift continues...

Also, bearing in mind how particular Flag designers are, I wonder why the Saltair lies over the St George? It's not how the union flag ended up after the Irish flag was added - and in fact wasn't how the 1606 Great Union Flag was eithe

Various designs were used 1606-1707, including Cromwell's own versions, but the design in question is the Scottish Union Flag. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Scotland#Incorporation_into_the_Union_Flag) (The Scots didn't consider the efforts of James' Heralds at the College of Arms in 1606 to be all that "Great", so came up with their own pattern).

In 1707, Queen Anne selected the 1606 version used in the Kingdom of England to become the design used for the flag of the new Kingdom of Great Britain; rejecting the "Scots Union Flag as said to be used by the Scots".

The 1801 United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland design should have reverted to the 1707 design under the Royal & Parliamentary Titles Act (1927); following the dissolution of the Kingdom of Ireland with the creation of the Irish Free State and Northern Ireland. However, both the flag and Royal Arms of the UK, (these only being concerned with the symbols of the Kingdoms - hence no separate representation for Wales, it being part of the Kingdom of England), were left unaltered on the grounds of cost.

Edit:

Crap image, but you get the idea...

http://lusana.ru/files/608/268/17.jpg

Sue VÍtements
9th Jun 2016, 16:00
Interesting. I went to Wikipedia before I posted and they have a similar, but slightly different picture

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Flags_of_the_Union_Jack.png/300px-Flags_of_the_Union_Jack.png

I'll reread your post later when I can concentrate.

One funny story: I went to an event in Texas once held at a WWII training base where RAF fledglings had been sent to polish their skills. They had a 60 or maybe 70 year celebration and there were British flags everywhere on flagpoles, hundreds of them and it was about 50/50 I think how they were hung. I was tempted to start correcting the mistakes, but it would have taken all afternoon

rab-k
9th Jun 2016, 16:11
Yes, saw it too, but the best illustration I saw is at the foot of the Union Jack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack) article, titled...

Union Flag variants 1606-1801 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack#Union_Flag_variants_1606.E2.80.931801)

I tried to copy it as an image onto my previous post, but the format won't allow it.

flydive1
9th Jun 2016, 17:00
It is perfectly acceptable to fly the Swiss flag upside down and/or backwards. However it is NOT recommended to do as a sign of distress.

I believe is quite acceptable to have it upside up or turned 90, 180 or even 270 degrees.;)

Cazalet33
9th Jun 2016, 18:38
I believe is quite acceptable to have it upside up or turned 90, 180 or even 270 degrees.

You shit-stirring flag-wagger, you.

Tankertrashnav
10th Jun 2016, 00:06
They always say there's not much point flying the Union Jack upside down if your vessel is in distress, as not many people would notice. An alternative signal is setting fire to a barrel of tar on deck, although in the case of small craft I'm guessing if you weren't in distress at the outset, you pretty soon would be!

Um... lifting...
10th Jun 2016, 03:19
Even aboard the square-rigger, I don't recall having a barrel of tar at the ready for ignition among the ship's equipment, but perhaps things are ordered differently in SW England.

chuks
10th Jun 2016, 03:41
I believe you will find that under the FARs two acceptable substitutes for having a functioning ELT for the emission of a distress signal are either a flag capable of being flown upside-down or else a barrel of tar.

I seem to remember that this was a question on the written test for the ATPL, but I may be mistaken.

ExXB
10th Jun 2016, 05:35
I believe is quite acceptable to have it upside up or turned 90, 180 or even 270 degrees.;)

Well, it's a bit of a secret but the Swiss are required to turn the flag by 90 degrees on a fixed schedule. Reduces wear and tear and extends the life of the flag :rolleyes:

Sue VÍtements
10th Jun 2016, 12:18
Even aboard the square-rigger, I don't recall having a barrel of tar at the ready for ignition among the ship's equipment, but perhaps things are ordered differently in SW England.Oh the SouthWest? well yes, barrels of tar and bonfires at the ready all along the coast. After all how else are they going to get the passing ships to wreck themselves on the rocky shoreline? ;)

WeeJeem
10th Jun 2016, 14:43
It is perfectly acceptable to fly the Swiss flag upside down and/or backwards. However it is NOT recommended to do as a sign of distress.
I believe is quite acceptable to have it upside up or turned 90, 180 or even 270 degrees.;)



Doesn't work in my neck of the Swiss woods :cool:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOkZt5ATadH_OAAtic2gW_9wLMllTgDY8DX9DzGmW hc8YGcCJk1O9zrA

flydive1
10th Jun 2016, 15:16
Well that's not the Swiss flag for sure.

And your neck of wood, according to your profile would be this
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/c/ch-zh.gif

;)

WeeJeem
10th Jun 2016, 15:29
Well that's not the Swiss flag for sure.


Indeed not, it's the Schwyz flag :ok:

And your neck of wood, according to your profile would be this
;)

That's my work neck - I'm polykantonal :p

Tankertrashnav
10th Jun 2016, 15:52
Seems that my location has led to a certain amount of scepticism about my tar barrel suggestion. I refer sceptics to the following:


"Distress signals at sea are defined in the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea and in the International Code of Signals. Mayday signals must only be used where there is grave and imminent danger to life. Otherwise, urgent signals such as pan-pan can be sent. Most jurisdictions have large penalties for false, unwarranted or prank distress signals.

Distress can be indicated by any of the following officially sanctioned methods:

Smoke signal
Transmitting a spoken voice Mayday message by radio over very high frequency channel 16 (156.8 MHz) and/or high frequency on 2182 kHz
Transmitting a digital distress signal by activating (or pressing) the distress button (or key) on a marine radio equipped with Digital Selective Calling (DSC) over the VHF (channel 70) and/or HF frequency bands.
Transmitting a digital distress signal by activating (or pressing) the distress button (or key) on an Inmarsat-C satellite internet device
Sending the Morse code group SOS by light flashes or sounds
Burning a red flare (either hand-held or aerial parachute flare)
Lighting a non-pyrotechnic visual distress signal device
Emitting orange smoke from a canister
Showing flames on the vessel (as from a burning tar barrel, oil barrel, etc.)
Raising and lowering slowly and repeatedly both arms outstretched to each side
Making a continuous sound with any fog-signalling apparatus
Firing a gun or other explosive signal at intervals of about a minute
Flying the international maritime signal flags NC ICS November.svg ICS Charlie.svg
Displaying a visual signal consisting of a square flag having above or below it a ball or anything resembling a ball (round or circular in appearance)
Launching distress rockets"


Funnily enough, no mention of flying the Union Jack (or any other flag) upside down!

Sue VÍtements
10th Jun 2016, 18:05
Raising and lowering slowly and repeatedly both arms outstretched to each side . . . AND nodding the head?

ExXB
10th Jun 2016, 18:34
This is not the Swiss flag either.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Savoie_flag.svg/320px-Savoie_flag.svg.png

But it's close ...

Cazalet33
10th Jun 2016, 19:54
I had a colleague who was a former Marine. He told me about the morning that the color guard hoisted the flag upside down there at Quantico.

At Edinburgh Tattoo a couple of decades ago the USMC strutted their stuff, quite competently. Then a group of Marines unfurled the flag in the costume and pose and posture of the Iwo Jima thing in a tableau vivant. When the spotlight came up, the flag was clearly upside down. There was a muted groan from the crowd.

Immediately afterwards I asked a Murricane what that was all about and he puffed that it was in honour of the fallen who took the island. I pointed out that the original event had been photographed and had even been the graphical subject of a postage stamp.

On the way out of the venue I asked a uniformed USMC Color Sergeant about that, and he just blushed and went away.

ExXB
11th Jun 2016, 10:02
The Marines have a problem with that ...

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbalanceoffood.typepad.com%2F.a%2F6a00e55214f fbe8834017ee419eb9d970d-800wi&f=1

West Coast
11th Jun 2016, 16:08
On the way out of the venue I asked a uniformed USMC Color Sergeant about that, and he just blushed and went away.

How many were there? You make it sound like there a number of them.

SASless
13th Jun 2016, 01:23
The USMC does not have Color Sgt's....not one.

SASless
13th Jun 2016, 01:29
Now I begin to understand British Army Hat Badges, Headgear, and Trouser (or lack there of) combinations as i read about the flags.:uhoh:

West Coast
13th Jun 2016, 02:24
The USMC does not have Color Sgt's....not one.

There's a billet for one, not sure if its filled currently.

Think Caz's imagination got the best of him.

OzBob
14th Jun 2016, 10:40
Facebook made embarrassing blunder, declaring the Philippines at war

9:09 PM Tuesday Jun 14, 2016



http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201625/Happy-ind_620x310.jpg
Facebook posted a picture of the inverted Philippine flag, which means the country is at war.
We all know the powers of social media, but never did we think it would declare a war.

Facebook made an embarrassing blunder when it accidentally stuffed up a "Happy Independence Day" greeting for social media users in the Philippines.
In its message, Facebook used an inverted Philippine flag, which suggests the country is at war.
The flag usually has a blue panel across the top and a red one across the bottom, but the flag can be hoisted upside down, so red is on the top, when the country is at war.
It is the only flag that may be hoisted inverted when the Congress of the Philippines has declared a "state of war".