RAF Hendon Battle of Britain hall closing

[NutLoose]

People thought it was simply a case of a refurb, but apparently not, see

RAF Museum Hendon - Closure / Dispersion of Battle of Britain Hall (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?139003-RAF-Museum-Hendon-Closure-Dispersion-of-Battle-of-Britain-Hall)


I visited the dismantled aircraft in the BoB Hall. All very interesting, but, I am dumbstruck by the fact this wonderful hall is being closed and its items dispersed.

The signage gives a false impression that they are just checking the condition of the aircraft. There is no mention that the hall will close, the bombers will go in the bomber hall and the fighters in next to the cafe in the main hall. It does not mention that the Me110 and Ju88 are off to cosford with the defiant, nor that the jungmann will be disposed of. It doesn't say what will happen to the art, the relics, the replica Uxbridge ops room, searchlight mannequins, art, medals and Churchill. All aircraft are effected except the Sunderland. Information is out there in the web, but not that readily available.

The hall gives context to the Battle of Britain, it is a national curriculum subject and also covered Evacuees as well as events leading to the war. The film was a big favourite of my non aviation enthusiastic family. One could readily see which were the main aircraft of both sides and the film made it easy to understand for all ages. I don't care that the ju88, 87 and 110 and 111 were later models, they were examples. Besides joe public did not care. How can the BoB be told with the aircraft dispersed?

I asked a few visitors what the thought of the hall going. All were surprised. I left a comments slip but it sounds like no one will read it or care.

I feel aggrieved that whilst the RAF history is more than the Battle, it was the Finest Hour not only for the RAF but also this country. It was a huge turning point in those very very dark days.

Whilst a museum needs to be fresh and appealing to the public (not just enthusiasts), forgetting the Battle is not the way to do it. I would have expected the Battle to be a big part of the RAF 100th anniversary, not hidden away. It would be like the RN forgetting Trafalgar, Tarranto, Jutland etc or the Army forgetting Waterloo etc.

When I was a student in the 80s, I spent many days walking around that Hall and reflecting. In the years to today, I would spend at least two days a year there. it is a tragedy that this will no longer be possible

Sorry, but the RAF Museum have upset me with this. I cannot believe the wider RAF would be happy.

If I am wide of the mark or wrong please correct me. I will post some pictures of what we will be losing.

Please keep this discussion on track and not descend to discussion on lighting!

That was the one of the main reasons for actually going to the place! New manager, new broom, lost the plot?

[MAINJAFAD]

Unfortunately the RAF Museum (Like the IWM at Duxford) have totally lost the plot. Nutty

[Out Of Trim]

Really... Unbelievable!

What idiot sanctioned that!

I'm struggling to understand what cretin would think this was a good idea. This was one of a few, remaining parts of RAF Heritage that is of National importance.

Makes you want to weep with frustration at what this Country is becoming.

Gutted.. :ugh:

[Courtney Mil]

That is outrageous. The RAF Museum without the Battle of Britain Hall. What are they thinking?

Enquiry sent to the Museum. I shall report back with any response.

Courtney

[NutLoose]

From page 11

Through extensive consultation, the Museum has examined and reviewed its visitors engagement with its exhibitions. This has led to the commitment to provide broader context and richer narrative to its interpretation in order to tell the story of the Royal Air Force.
As part of the strategic gallery renewal plan and to bring recognisable context, the Museum will structure the story chronologically. This allows for long term planning of its spaces and collections. The chapter structure will be:
ß The First 100 Years of the Royal Air Force (introduction) ß Early and First World War
ß Inter-War and Second World War 1918-1945
ß Cold War
ß Post-Cold War 1989 - 2014 ß Now & the future
The principles for the delivery of this gallery structure will be:
ß Each of the two sites will tell the whole story
ß Each story will be rich in people and collections
ß Each exhibition will be relevant and exciting for a broad range of people


http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Strategy_Documents/Strategic_Plan_2014_to_2019.pdf

It does read like they are trying to do it all in an underhand way, making out they are checking aircraft etc and dispersing the collection before anyone realises what is happening and it is to late to prevent it happening.

Hendon in my eyes always has been about the main Battle of Britain hall and the rest of the museum backs that up by showing the rest of the history of the service.

[camelspyyder]

Having recently been hosted by the curator, I have to say he did not strike me in any way as underhand, but as someone dedicated to the museum and its collections. I am sure decisions to re-structure the Museum (at both of it's sites) are in no way malevolent or designed to undermine the heritage of the RAF, RFC or RNAS. Museums do get stale without renewal, and refreshing the experience for the public seems to me to be a good way to keep the visitors coming in.

[Chugalug2]

I'm sure that the curator is the splendid dedicated person that you say he is, camelspyder, but dedicated to what? Is it to display the different eras and types of RAF equipment throughout its history, or to use them to tell the story of its history? It was the latter purpose that the Battle of Britain Hall served. The story of course was how British organisation, technology, blood, tears, and sweat, subverted the enemy's plans to win air superiority, threaten us with invasion, and force us to sue for peace. It was a close run thing, but with the scales tilted in our favour by pilots from already invaded countries, from the Commonwealth, and from the USA and others.

Is that the issue that concerns the curator perhaps? That the story of the BoB is in conflict with today's world of European solidarity and brotherhood? I'd better stop there, or this thread will suffer the same fate as the one about a European Defence Force and get locked off in its prime!

[Pontius Navigator]

The Museum has a reserve collection at Stafford also with many fine exhibits including the original mainplanes for the BBMF aircraft.

I was also shown some US weaponry traded for a JP 233.

As new exhibits arise, post 1989, it is inevitable there will be pressure on existing space.

[Wander00]

But the BATTLE OF BRITAIN, "Their Finest Hour" we are talking about here.

[clunckdriver]

As a Canadian with many visits to Hendon I just cant understand such incredible stupidity! This on top of the burning of the officers Mess at RAF Kenley {a "protected building"} seems like another insult to the Canadians, and all the other nationalities who fought in this battle, which transcends all the other conflicts fought on British soil in importance. I don't know who they interviewed, but it sure as hell wasn't any of the hundreds of layover crews from Canada, the USA, or the many other aircrew nationalities I have met there on layovers in the UK! What next? Get rid of the statues of Keith Park, Harris, the Polish Air Force memorial at Northolt, and while you are at it lets get rid of "Stuffy" Dowding, after all what does the world owe him? Dear Lord, I thought we had enough idiots in Canada destroying our history in the name of "multi culture", but the UK seems headed down the same path.

[MPN11]

Only been to Hendon a few times ... my father-in-law's Sunderland is the one on display ;)

Curiously [or not] I have no strong inclination to travel to Cosford, Duxford, Bruntingthorpe etc etc. Has anyone ever noticed that London is the Capital City of the United Kingdom? Tourists, bless them, don't head off into the wilds of the English countryside to get their fix of Aviation History.

I visited the Museum of the 8th Air Force [ National Mighty Eighth Museum (http://www.mightyeighth.org) ] while we were on holiday in Savannah, GA ... they did what they could at the 'birthplace' of the 8th, but it wasn't exactly the best Museum experience I've aver had. One or two airframes, and a bunch of artefacts. Come to think of it, last year's re-visit to the Air & Space in Washington DC wasn't exactly stellar either, with tatty displays that haven't been changed for years.

I'm glad I'm not a Museum Director.

[tartare]

Unbelievable.
Despite the good intentions, it's a poor decision.
Cosford is wonderful (espec. the B-52 and SR-71) but a long way away.
Hendon is accessible - visited many times.

[MAINJAFAD]

SR-71 and B-52 are at Duxford.

[tartare]

Apologies - my bad.
It's still great!

[Wander00]

A bit like an RN Museum without Trafalgar or FAA without Taranto.

[thunderbird7]

Come to think of it, last year's re-visit to the Air & Space in Washington DC wasn't exactly stellar either, with tatty displays that haven't been changed for years.


Did you visit the Udvar Hazy out at the airport - one of the best museums I've been to with loads of German & Japanese 'funnies' (and i don't mean the visitors...)

[Finningley Boy]

My first trip there was in 1975, there wasn't a Battle of Britain Hall then. I still haven't fathomed the reason, mind I haven't read every post as such, but have they given a reason for closing it? Perhaps its to do with the move to celebrate the RAF's Centenary year after next!?

Best Regards,

FB:)

PS just read the insert on nutloose's post, now I understand, they seem to be trying sweep as much of WWII under the carpet as secretly possible. It's occurred to me previously that those at the top would rather forget that the Germans were ever at odds with us. Look out for greater emphasis on the Cold War, recent conflicts and more diverse and 'modern' takes on the RAF.

[Davef68]

Don't forget the Curator is not the main decision maker at RAFM, and there is now a CEO (replacing the old Director General title) that comes for the museums and leisure sector rather than having an RAF background

[MPN11]

thunderbird7 ... yes, done the Udvar Hazy. A different animal to the one in DC, of course = more airframes and fewer 'glass case exhibits'.

[A and C]

It is very hard to understand the thinking behind closing an exhibition hall that covers the first battle fought entirely in the air and the first time the Nazis were stopped in their tracks.

I think a refurbishment might be due but to disperse this hall can only be an act of political correct historical revisionism.

Perhaps the museum needs to reflect on why North London has a thriving Jewish commuinty and I am not writing on PPrune in German .

[Roly]

Seconded. Very well put.

[Heathrow Harry]

nnnaaaa - it's not "political correctness gone mad"

far more likely you get a new boss and he/she just wants to change everything to show "they've made a diference"

happens in all walks of life (unfortunately)

In 6-7 years time the next new boss will bring it all back again......

[A and C]

Yes Harry I could go for that as a reason, new bosses ego, rearranging the furniture

[Chugalug2]

Let's hope that you are right, HH. The real test will be if there is a move to do the same with the Bomber Hall, a far more contentious issue. If that does happen then I would suspect that PC is indeed a factor.

[Pontius Navigator]

FB, the Cold War is not PC either as many of our new friends were targets. A Google image of a target with DGZ was deemed inadmissible as it was in a 'friendly' State.

Met a Latvian a few years ago, they were in their 20s then and had no idea that their capital was a principal target. They couldn't grasp the idea at all.

[Wander00]

A&C - I wish I had said that - very cogent point

[newt]

And there was me thinking I might leave my collection of memorabilia and my log books to the museum!!! Not now! Might just as well stick them on EBay !

[glad rag]

Through extensive consultation, the Museum has examined and reviewed its visitors engagement with its exhibitions. This has led to the commitment to provide broader context and richer narrative to its interpretation in order to tell the story of the Royal Air Force.

For many of us it was the BofB that laid the path that led to service in the RAF.

"Richer narrative" do f off..

[NutLoose]

Newt, I heard years ago they had a complete set of rare original manual donated, they copied every page onto their digital archive then destroyed the originals. Not cool.

[Momoe]

The irony of the BoB hall closing while the country dithers about EU membership is exquisite!

Not to acknowledge 'Their finest hour' is nonsensical,as other posters have said it was the RAF's defining moment and the consequences if lost were grim at the least and catastrophic for the allies at worst.

The men and machines of the RAF at that time were the tangible proof that we could hold our own after after series of losses across Europe and Africa, in other words, they gave hope which was in short supply.

I have been to Hendon several times in the past few years and the exhibits and museum do need refreshing, the BoB hall in particular is a bit gloomy and the theme a little jingoistic in my opinion.

I would like to see more on the build-up to the BoB, the 'phony' war, the disaster that was the BEF, to put the BoB into context which might make 'Their finest hour' even finer for those who come to learn.

The RAF museum's vision for the future isn't inspiring IMO, too much is open to interpretation
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/Strategy_Documents/Strategic_Plan_2014_to_2019.pdf

Noted that in this document, WW1 to WW11 are viewed as a chapter, whereas I see them as two distinctly separate events in terms of the RAF.

I sincerely hope that the BoB's significance is upheld by the museum, not do so would be a travesty imo.

[Pontius Navigator]

For many of us it was the BofB that laid the path that led to service in the RAF.
.
In my case the seeds were probably sown when my uncle gave me his aircraft recognition cards. The Japanese ones were hard - I remember the Betty. I had Allied and German and Allied Pacific as well. Wonder what they would be worth.

[Martin the Martian]

Sorry, but trying to tie with this in with the EU referendum is ridiculous. And so is going on about political correctness.

As said, it's a new broom, one who does not quite grasp the significance of the Battle of Britain admittedly, but there you go. The entire Hendon site needs a facelift, reshuffle and complete spruce up, and in the absence of merging them into a single location RAFM would do better to look at how their two sites can tell the RAF story in collaboration rather than try to tell the same story twice. For example, there is the Cold War museum at Cosford, so why try to re-tell it at Hendon?

But yes, losing the Battle of Britain hall is very unfortunate and definitely to be regretted.

[Wander00]

Are there Trustees or others to whom one can express disappointment verging on disgust

[Momoe]

Sir Glenn Torpy is the chairman of the RAFM, however I suspect the change is being driven by Maggie Appleton as the newish CEO.

It's a museum and trustees should recognise heritage, the significance of artefacts and events and put them in their proper perspective.

[Haraka]

From Linked in:
Before joining the Royal Air Force Museum in January 2015, Maggie worked in Luton for 12 years, for six as Director of Museums and latterly as the Chief Executive of Luton Culture, the charity that comprises the arts, libraries, community centres and museums in the town. Her previous roles were in Stevenage and at the Royal Armouries.
Maggie led the consultation, fundraising and development of the HLF funded Stockwood Discovery Centre in Luton that opened in 2008 and welcomes over 200,000 visitors a year. She was also responsible for securing the medieval Wenlok Jug for the UK after it was export stopped in 2006..

[Heathrow Harry]

so you get a pro to run the museum............. nothing wrong in that (and I supect getting the good people of Luton into any cultural building must have been a great challenge)

Lets just see what happens going forward

[Wander00]

But what does this fragrant lady know about the spirit and history of the Royal air Force - tiddley-squit is seems. If someone has Glenn Torpy's ear can he not be persuaded to tell her what is what over a G&T

[Haraka]

Wander. If you go to her Linked in site , you will probably also get up details of a number of her various and highly qualified team running the show....:)
(Don't expect to find anybody with whom you have been acquainted though )

[mmitch]

I think what caused disgust was that for the last few months the aircraft there were dismantled 'so that we can determine how much if any restoration is required.' This was an underhand way to prepare them for removal. I wonder what will happen to the central memorial, a crashed Hurricane in which a pilot died. Will it be put in store or worse as a 'piece of junk'?
mmitch.

[Wander00]

I don't doubt they are highly qualified "museum" people, but surely in the same way that a natural history museum would need some appreciation of natural history, running the RAF Museum surely need an appreciation of RAF and military history, and aviation - where Michael Fopp did such a good job (Standing by for incoming.....)

[Stanwell]

Erm .. Wander00,
You'll notice that Haraka was referring to her "LinkedIn" profile.
One has to look pretty hard to find any underlying 'truths' on there.

It's much the same with TCT and her CV.
She initially flourished because people were taken in by her charm and were thus disinclined to read between the lines and ask awkward questions.

You see those people all the time in the museum game.
Rat-cunning and the ability to manipulate are what sees them through - until, when things start going really bad, the board convenes and...
.

[G-ANHG]

This is hugely disappointing news. Back in the early eighties, I led a team from RAF St. Mawgan to the BoB hall to work on the Sunderland. My 42 Sqn Warrant Officer had visited the museum to see the Sunderland which he had worked on at Pembroke Dock as a young JT and was horrified at its condition. To cut a long story short, I led a working party team over many weekends to work on the Sunderland and we took everything that could be removed back to St. Maegan for restoration – seats, floor panels, radios and more. We completely corrosion-proofed the hull, got the turrets working and the drop down leading edge sections either side of the engines. We crawled out into the wings to carry out more corrosion assessment and repair, and even found the APU out there (can’t remember which wing) – a JAP V-twin engine. This is the reason the general public can now visit inside it. While we were there, we did a lot of work on the other aircraft, particularly the German ones that had been hastily bolted together.


So it is particularly upsetting to read this news, and there are so many parallel situations going on these days, that I am quite certain this is just another PC brick in the wall.


You would think that the museum would at least wait until the last of the Few who saved us all from Armageddon had passed before revising history, particularly as those heroes are watching the second Battle of Britain right now, aka the European referendum.


Lest we forget.

[newt]

To make sure we are talking facts here, I sent an email to the museum! No response as expected! Should we start a petition?

[highcirrus]

newt. I think a petition (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/check) is a damn good idea. Do you maybe wish to lead the charge?

[Wander00]

I'm in on a petition

[Jimlad1]

I find it frustrating here to see people who are not curators, who have no experience of being museum curators, telling a curator how to do her job simply because she's not RAF. Its akin to a civilian with no flying experience, but an interest in aviation in general going to an RAF base and telling the Staish how to manage his flying programme.

We assume service leavers are capable of walking into almost any job via the resettlement process regardless of how little prior experience they have in that field, yet I think it is the height of institutional arrogance to assume that no one who is not RAF or former RAF could possibly understand how to curate a museum to do with the RAF.

For the record, I've been to Hendon once - I thought it was a fairly tired museum which desperately needed updating. I'd rather the museum focused more on the post cold War operations side in order to make people realise what we ask of potential recruits now, and give them a sense of what they could be doing in the future, rather than focus too heavily on a single event that happened 76 years ago which is of far less direct relevance operationally (not culturally) to todays Service.

[BEagle]

Planning the era 1918-1945 as a single 'chapter' seems rather daft to me.

1918-1939 should remain as 'Inter War'
1939-1945 should remain as 'WW II'

It'll be interesting to see what they consider to be the 'Cold War' period though. 1945-68 or 1945-91 (dissolution of the Soviet Union)?

Post Cold War could conceivably represent 1991-2011, but anything later than the alleged end of GW2 needs to wait a few years.

[clunckdriver]

Jimlad1, you miss the point, there would be no RAF/UK/civilised world as we know it had the battle of Britain gone the other way, and you would be working for the OKW rather than MOD as you do! Without victory {or a stand- of as many gifted with 20/20 hindsight maintain} America would have made an accommodation with the Nazis, {"America First" was extremely powerful until Pearl Harbour changed things}As for us in Canada, at home we were totally ill equipped to conduct any form of warfare, {even the few modern aircraft we possessed , a few Hurricanes'} were sent to the UK to help stem the tide .As for the abilities needed to run an aviation museum, as a founder member and aircraft donator to a vey successful one in Canada, it is vital that the person in charge has a detailed and extensive knowledge of both history and aviation, and surround themselves with others with complimentary abilities. To destroy the center piece of Hendon simply because it needs a clean up is total nonsense!

[MPN11]

... a single event that happened 76 years ago which is of far less direct relevance operationally (not culturally) to todays Service.Does it have to be operationally relevant to today's Service? On that premise all the biplanes should be chopped up for firewood!

Any Museum is, de facto, about the past. Whether it's the BoB hall at Hendon, or the Dinosaurs at the Natural History Museum, neither has 'modern day relevance'.

[PapaDolmio]

We could always open the "The Battle of Britain was not really relevant because the Germans weren't really serious about invading" argument or the "Battle of Britain won or lost, the Royal Navy would have stopped it" etc. ...

[Haraka]

1918-1939 should remain as 'Inter War'
N.B. WW1 actually ended in 1919. It was an armistice in November 1918.
I would hold that the RAF was founded in WW1 and that the origins of how and why the world's first Independent Air Force was created should be included in a chapter closing with the end of that war.
The collapse in size of the Service and its hand-to-mouth existence whilst propping up a series of overseas campaigns ( sounds familiar?) should take us through a second era up to c. 1935, when the Service entered a third phase with rapid expansion, running up to and the conduct of its part in WW2. Although Beags and my entering the RAF in 1968 doubtless did much to roll back the Iron Curtain during the "Cold War" fourth phase, I suppose the Wall coming down allows us now to consider the Service's ongoing role supporting various neocolonial adventures to be still developing as a fifth phase. Regarding that, I am reminded of Chairman Mao's response to a question regarding his assessment of the French Revolution:
" Too early to say."

[Heathrow Harry]

rather than a petition you'd do better tipping off the Daily Mail..................

[Wander00]

Copied from the Annual Report - where does breaking up the BoB Hall fit in with this?


Charitable Objects The object of the charity is to educate and inform the public and members of the Royal Air Force about:
n The history and traditions of the Royal Air Force and
n The role of the Royal Air Force in relation to the armed forces of the realm, other air forces and aviation generally in particular, but not exclusively, by collecting, conserving, preserving, managing, exhibiting and storing documents, items, artefacts and other materials in the collection.
The ambition of the Museum is to ensure that the RAF’s story endures and enriches future generations.
The vision of the museum is to be a world-leading museum that engages, inspires and connects everyone with the RAF story through exploration of its people and its collections.
Our purpose
The RAF has shaped our nation and our society. It has influenced how we live our lives today through its impact on world events, society and technology.
The purpose of the Museum is to tell the story of the RAF through its people and collections.
n For our nation, we help people to understand the impact of the RAF on the world.
n For visitors, we make our collections and the RAF story relevant and stimulating.
n
For current and former RAF personnel and their families, we preserve, honour and share

the stories of their service.

[Haraka]

It doesn't of course.
But remember that the subliminal agenda is also to generate a hierarchy of embedded career "professionals" , (no H.R. as yet?) mutually tail covering and cross supporting, without any relevant hard experience or pertinent real world qualification. These will then ( without any individual attribution or responsibility) of course endorse a simplistic "PC " acceptable ( one minute attention span) message for the U.K.'s multicultural masses ( no offence intended guys!) who want to visit a funfair on their day off..

[Chugalug2]

Jimlad:-
a single event that happened 76 years ago which is of far less direct relevance operationally (not culturally) to todays Service.
I think that the BoB has a great deal of relevance operationally to today's Service. The reason that today's Service is able to deploy to the myriad of sandy places, and carry out the duties required of it there, is that it has de facto Air Superiority in those skies. The Battle of Britain is a salutary reminder that when a hostile power moves into those skies, you then have to fight for that Air Superiority in order to retain it.

One day the Royal Air Force will once again have to fight for Air Superiority, whether it be in the UK or abroad. The hard fight of 1940 was won, make no mistake. We had Air Superiority by day in our skies beforehand and we retained it afterwards. That was the challenge given Fighter Command and it was met and overcome. I can think of nothing more relevant to any modern Air Force, and if any curator of the RAF Museum, no matter how illustrious or experienced, doesn't understand that and celebrate that key event in the museum, then their suitability for that job should be in question in my view.

Air Forces are about war, not Air Displays, rescuing stranded sheep, or even ship wrecked mariners. All that is good and noble, but the point of an Air Force is the same as that of an Army or a Navy; to close with the enemy and destroy him. If that is too in your face for modern sensibilities then they need shaking up!

[NutLoose]

Very, very well said

[Onceapilot]

Battle of Britain. A defining battle for the RAF, the UK and WWII. The RAF Museum must have had a dippy turn if they see fit to disperse this grouping of aircraft! I could see a much better setting, with the day fighters in a bright "summer '40" airfield cameo, blue skies, grass and.. the fighting superimposed and contrasting. The present dim hall could feature as a "carry-forward" to the Blitz and night bombing with the bombers and night-fighters. Now, one could hardly argue much with the rare aircraft that they actually have to do this with. OH! I wonder if this is a precursor to some sort of money-making asset disposal? :oh:

OAP

[Wander00]

I am with Nutloose - good summary Chug and well expressed IMHO