AvMed - Time for some answers!

[Chocks Away]

Hands up, who is having trouble getting their Aviation Medical out of CASA AvMed currently? :confused:

I did my Class 1 back in 2015 and still have no Certificate.
I telephoned them, after 3 months was up & the Temporary Certificate stamp had expired. All excuses under the sun have ensued, including "just do it again"...:hmm:

The crux of the matter is and it has been admitted by one of their IT staff that, the newly instigated computer system does not bring forward and can not recognise the previous applications... :} ?

Now who decided on this new "computer system"?
Was there a "proving/change over/trial period?
Why wasn't the old paper method used as a back-up, as we still fill all those pages in?
Many more questions remain (for me) as this service and their response (lack thereof) has been and currently is unacceptable.

Three other colleagues I've talked to just this week are in the same boat, still awaiting their certificates, well past the temporary 3 month extension.

Who else is having trouble with this mob?

[binglebailey]

If this is industry wide I would recommend we request our respective unions to collate individual evidence for a collective communique with the Director.

[Captain Dart]

Still waiting after doing mine in early April. Rang them and the excuse was, 'The girls are a bit snowed under'.

And we get to pay $75 for the privilege.

[Lead Balloon]

11.140 Continuation of authorisation until application decided

(1) This regulation applies in relation to a time‑limited authorisation (the old authorisation) if:

(a) at least:

(i) in the case of an authorisation held by a corporation, 90 days;

(ii). in any other case, 21 days;

before the time when the old authorisation would otherwise cease, its holder applies to CASA for the issue of a new time‑limited authorisation that confers the same privileges, or authorises the holder to carry out the same functions or duties, as the old authorisation; and

(b). at the time when the old authorisation would otherwise cease, CASA has not made a decision on the application.

(2) For subregulation (1), an applicant has applied for the new authorisation only if:

(a) the applicant has given to CASA the necessary application, in the form required by these Regulations; and

(b) the application is taken to be complete, in accordance with regulation 11.030; and

(c) the applicant has given to CASA any other documents required by these Regulations to be given to CASA with the application.

Note: The applicant does not need to give to CASA information or a document that CASA already has—see regulation 11.145.

(3) In spite of any other provision of these Regulations, but subject to subregulation (4), the old authorisation continues in force until:

(a) CASA makes a decision on the application; and

(b). if the decision is to grant the new authorisation—the new authorisation comes into force.

(4) If CASA asks for further information or a document or invites the applicant to make a submission, under a provision of Subpart 11.B as applied by regulation 11.145, and the applicant does not do so within the period specified by CASA under that provision, then, despite subregulation (3), the old authorisation is taken to cease at the end of that period.
11.015 Definitions for Part

In this Part:

authorisation means:
...
(c) a certificate capable of being granted to a person under these Regulations.

Note: For the definition of civil aviation authorisation, see section 3 of the Act.

...

time‑limited authorisation means:

(a) an authorisation that, under another provision of these Regulations, ceases after a particular period; or

(b). an authorisation granted by CASA for a specified period.
Worth reading twice.

[Troo believer]

That's not how my company sees it. I'm about to be pulled off line due to CASA imcompetence. It's either valid or not. Imagine what a foreign authority would think if you were checked whilst in an overseas port.

[Chocks Away]

Yes, troo believer!
You either have it in hand or you don't. If you don't, say whatever you like but it still doesn't count.
This is the issue, especially overseas, when your company stipulates we MUST have "all visas, passports & licences current and with you" prior to sign on!

[Horatio Leafblower]

OK Guys

AIPA and AFAP need to make an election issue out of this CASA incompetence.

"CASA incompetence threatens to ground Airline pilots"

Keep ther pressure on

Keep it in the media

Don't let a single opportunity pass us by.

I have a contact at AFAP - Who do we call at AIPA?

[Lead Balloon]

I suppose the provision does create a paradox. It provides protection, in theory, against delays caused by bureaucratic bungling or laziness, but can only work, in practice, if the bureaucracy has the competence and capacity to explain its operation to the world and take responsibility for the consequences.

The provision is probably subject to some exception or determination or some other "yes but" that renders it meaningless for medical certificates anyway.

But just think how much safer people will be when you're dragged off the line.

[thorn bird]

Not being a legal person I'm probably talking out of my hat.
The regulator through incompetence are interfering in citizens
rights to pursue their professions and earn a living.
I ponder if that would be grounds to take a legal case to Fair Work?
They have cost me thousands of dollars in income from their
non safety regulations, any legal eagles out there with an opinion?

[Tuner 2]

AIPA has already tried to get CASA on its delays in the Federal Court back in 2014 by funding an AIPA's member's case:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/FCA/2014/1016.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=FCA%202014%201016%20or%202014%20FCA%201016


"There is no basis pleaded on which to conclude that the time between the receipt of the 2 November 2011 letter and the case conference on 22 March 2012 constituted an unreasonable delay in the process of CASA’s fulfilment of its statutory duties."

"...there may be a common law duty of care owed by CASA in some circumstances but, in the exercise of power and judgment under the CA Act in respect of the maintaining, enhancing and promoting the safety of civil aviation, CASA acts for safety of the public generally and not for the benefit of the person affected by that exercise."

Although I agree this is a different issue to delays caused by computer failures, staff shortages etc.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hey Thorn Bird and HL,

You two should 'get together'....you've got the makings of an interesting case, which, when 'highlighted' in the media, will (may) bring a torch to bear..??

Just an idea.....

Cheers :ok:

[Horatio Leafblower]

AIPA has already tried to get CASA on its delays in the Federal Court

Never mind the Feral Court - there is only one court that matters between now and July2nd - the Court of public opinion.

[Horatio Leafblower]

....and I ask you all.... who of you have written to your local member?!?

YOU must WRITE.

YOU because if it's not you, who will?

If not NOW, then WHEN?

DO IT.

YOUR LIFE DOES DEPEND ON IT.

[Chocks Away]

Thanks HL, yes done before I got on this and the new Minister for Infrastructure... though in caretaker mode currently.

[Lead Balloon]

And you must submit a formal complaint to CASA and the Commonwealth Ombudsman.

The figleaf that Mr Skidmore puts over AVMED is that CASA has "only received 13 formal complaints about AVMED." (My recollection is that 13 was the number. My recollection may be inaccurate, but it was a very small number.)

It appears that the trenchant criticisms of AVMED in the submissions of the pilot representative bodies to the ASRR don't count in Mr Skidmore's mind. It appears that the number of AVMED decision overturned by the AAT, or overturned before an embarrassing decision by the AAT, don't count in Mr Skidmore's mind.

I think Mr Skidmore isn't allowed to do much independent thinking.

[Chocks Away]

Keep your eyes peeled for an AFAP survey (members) and in the media as this is worse than first thought.

Happy Landings:ok:

[Chocks Away]

Funny how my Class 1 just turned up in my email inbox...

[dubbleyew eight]

casa's principle medical officer is well into bogus medicine. idiot.
did my medical october november last year. no problems according to the DAME.
stupid in canberra comes back with a load of irrelevant tripe.
answered some of it but have ignored the bogus medicine aspects.
am still flying.
wonder if the prinicple medical officer is from the same crowd of nutters as the previous ones?

his thing seems to be to ask for spirometry. this is so close to total quackery that he should be deregistered.
CASA - the clueless a**********s screwing aviation.

[Two_dogs]

This year was a five year anniversary medical for me, with the usual extras added in. I have just had the pleasure of paying an exorbitant fee for a 10 minute stroll on a treadmill at a cardiologists rooms due to a high cholesterol result.

At the end of the consult, I asked the cardiologist if there is any thing I need to change in my lifestyle to help correct this problem. He replied, 'You DON'T have a problem. There is NOTHING wrong with your heart, there is NOTHING wrong with your cholesterol level, there is NOTHING wrong with your diet. There is however SOMETHING wrong with CASA; their prescriptive cut off levels for cholesterol readings are not realistic and bear no semblance to the reality of cardio vascular health threats'.

Of course, the exorbitant fee is not claimable on Medicare as it is work related.
NOT HAPPY JAN

[Track5milefinal]

5 year anniversary for me Audio/ECG/Bloods $400 later

Appt was 4 weeks ago still nothing ... Hopeless!

[Capt Fathom]

But claimable on Tax. :(

Unless there is something obviously wrong with your heart, the need for a Stress Test normally only comes up when you hit the magic >14 points on the Coronary Heart Disease Risk Factor Prediction Chart.

As you get older, you've got to figure a way to get minus points to stay under 14. :E

[Horatio Leafblower]

Two Dogs...

That's FIFTH anniversary. Every Anniversary is a year. Five years. Fifth Anniversary.

:ugh:

:ok:

[Two_dogs]

Gee Horatio, did you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Have held a Class 1 medical around 20 years now. That would make it my twentieth anniversary, not my fifth. This one however was a five year anniversary. You know, every five years the specials come round. A five year anniversary would occur on the 5, 10, 15, 20 year anniversaries according to your birth date?

Regardless of my grasp of the English language and Grammar, I'm still not enthused at the CASA requirements that a cardiologist explained are outside of normal medical standards.

You DON'T have a problem. There is NOTHING wrong with your heart, there is NOTHING wrong with your cholesterol level, there is NOTHING wrong with your diet.

[mustafagander]

Two Dogs, your stress test ECG is claimable under your insurance and under Medicare according to my GP. The argument is that CASA has determined that for medical reasons you need further investigation. It is all about the medical issues perceived by CASA, the fact that you receive your avmed after this investigation is not relevant to the question of why you underwent the checks.

[RadioSaigon]

Received an email from AvMed recently, reminding me to fill out MRS, pay them, take spare specs, "check the progress of your medical via the email from CASA" -and allow 28 days for processing.

I would have thought that the bright & shiny new MRS system would be smart enough to figure out when an applicant has completed their preconditions -as I have some weeks ago- and not send such a nonsense notification. The only thing of interest to me there was their admission of 28 days processing time. Significantly lower than the times I'm seeing reported here.

Med a few days ago. We'll see how this goes.

[Ollie Onion]

Why do CASA not trust the DAME to issue a 12 month certificate? Every other place I have flown in the world will just print you a new certificate on the spot, only goes to the Authority if there is a problem. Seems to be a stupid waste of resource to tie up time with straight forward renewals.

[Tinstaafl]

Did my Class 1 last December. Usual stuff, urine sample, Ishihara plates, eye chart, and an ECG (my age requires one). $100 & 20mins later walked out with the Class 1 medical in my wallet and good to go. Of course, that was in the US...

[Lead Balloon]

Why do CASA not trust the DAME to issue a 12 month certificate?Because, in Australia, pilots and the medical practitioners and specialists who examine them are presumptively incompetent liars. CASA is the only bastion between the travelling public and carnage. Just ask AVMED.

[Sandy Reith]

The big question is whether aviation specific medicals are needed at all. In the US and UK they are moving to a car driver standard for virtually all PPLs. Here in Australia we've had a GP exam for the low weight category for more than 20 years, no problem. Why is this? Very simply because there is no safety case whatever. Surveys show this. Every year 4 or 5 airline pilots in the US suffer an incapacitating event indicating that medical science cannot predict such occurrences, hence a major reason for two pilots. It could be argued that car drivers pose a greater risk but I don't see anyone coming away from a problem CASA inspired medical worrying about driving home. I think the truth is we've all put up with the nonsense because we are special and must have above normal treatment, besides when younger it's not much problem to stay whithin AVMED requirements. There's a petition on Change.Org you might like to support:-
https://www.change.org/p/the-parliament-of-australia-save-australia-s-general-aviation-from-bureaucratic-disaster?recruiter=119349475&utm_source=petitions_show_components_action_panel_wrapper&utm_medium=copylink

[IFEZ]

Just had the 5 year special on my Class 1. So, lets see....


CASA fee - $75 plus hours to tackle on line questions prior to medical
Audiogram - $60 plus time off work
Optometrist (my call) to check eyes prior to medical. Find they've slipped a bit and need new lenses in glasses + spare set - $1,000
Blood Tests - $nil but time off work
ECG at Dr prior to medical - $75
Medical proper - $180
Time with DAME to complete medical - 3 hours + travel. The online questions are onerous to say the least. The vision testing now takes twice as long as they test BOTH sets of glasses.

So, nearly $400 later (+ lost time + $1,000 glasses which was my call)
Result..?


Class 1 extended by 2 months. Hopefully no further tests required and receive full medical from CASA prior to expiry of 2 months.


Its just getting harder & harder. And more expensive.


And just to really top it off, my ASIC expires in a couple of months as well..!! Grrrrr!! :ugh::ugh:

[caneworm]

Did my medical today.
Registered on the avmed site, took a little while (no biggy) but did it on an o'nite with a Tsing Tao for company, so no wasted time at home.
Paid the $75, (we all gotta do that anyway).
Booked with my DAME, didn't have to get there 30 min before to do paperwork.
Did the medical, got the re-val & came home to continue building my boat.
Whole thing seems quite easy, to me.

[binglebailey]

Let us know when you actually recieve the medical.
As your having a "Tsing Tao", it doesn't sound like your livelihood is reliant on an Australian Medical bring issued in a timely manner like the rest of us. A 2 month re-val issued by the DAME isn't cutting it for the internal system mess.
Ask your DAME as well as to how he/she is enjoying the new system. They only do it out of interest these days anyway as its not fiscally beneficial. The net result is they'll bail - medicals will become a whole lot more logistically and pragmatically compromised then.

[Lead Balloon]

You should all take considerable comfort from the fact that the medical certification system is keeping many bureaucrats in jobs. These bureaucrats were allowed to build the system that requires all these tests and fees and enables them to second guess the opinions of mere private medical practitioners and specialists, so they must know what they're doing. Musn't they?

[IFEZ]

Binglebailey,
You're not wrong about the DAME's. I'm surprised any of them can be bothered doing it anymore. I actually felt sorry for mine the other day. He would have made a loss on mine for sure.


Caneworm,
You must be one of the lucky ones. Young and absolutely no current or previous medical issues perhaps..?? Whilst it all seemed easy to you, my experience and for plenty of others as well, was quite the opposite. Painful in the extreme!


Leadsled,
Correct. Bureaucratic nonsense at its best (or should that be worst?). Poorly conceived and put together. So many of the questions are totally irrelevant and meaningless. Not just 'have you been/done/seen whatever in the last 12 months, but EVER..?? Really..??


Now lets see how long it takes to process...28 days..? We live in hope.

[Jay Bo]

6 weeks and still waiting..... Yeah it's not like I need it!!!!!!!! Hopeless.

[Ollie Onion]

Its a mess, CASA came back to my DAME for more information which makes me think they want further tests to be carried out. Five weeks later and still nothing, I can see them asking for further tests 5 days before my two month extension is up!! Looks like I might be having some time off work :ugh:

[Capt Basil Brush]

Did my class1 recently, the DAME at the end (my DAME for the last 10yrs) said congratulations, you are the last one we are ever doing, It's now ridiculous and not worth doing. The nurse did most of it and told him they will need to double the time allocated for a medical. One less top DAME.

The good news is it only took 4 weeks to come through.

[BPA]

6 weeks and still no sign of my medical, the new system is a joke!

[Chocks Away]

Get your hands on today's Australian-Aviation Section 24/06/16.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Then you can get the other side of the coin whereby the DAME can't make any decision by themself without "running it by CASA" first, resulting in lots of time off work, add to the lining of various pockets and then get released to work for a minor issue. I suppose CASA might wonder why pilot's generally don't use their DAME as there GP???

The system is a joke!

SN

[gcafinal]

I don't think going to local members and unions will achieve much. I suggest that if problems like these are substantiated then a direct approach to the full membership of the Senate Estimates committee would be appropriate. If you watch U-Tube for Senate Estimates proceedings, generally the representative Federal Departments send their top man plus a deputy to answer the Senators questions and do so well. In the CASA clips, CASA has up to 20 attending, none of whom including the Director can answer the Senators questions. These people are being paid very high salaries for this performance and one questions why the Senate Estimates committee have not initiated immediate action already. I wonder if any of them read the posts on this network. It seems the time for total disbandment of CASA is due and a return to a Minister of Civil Aviation being initiated.

[Led Zep]

Get your hands on today's Australian-Aviation Section 24/06/16.

Missed it, are you able to give us the gist of it?

[CurtainTwitcher]

I suggest that if problems like these are substantiated then a direct approach to the full membership of the Senate Estimates committee would be appropriate.
Assuming that will be your last medical prior to retirement, excellent idea, for the rest of us, no. I suspect that in order to "substantiate" the claim, the pilot's details would need to be passed by the committee to CASA for validation and their own internal investigation.

Can you image the subsequent medical certificate delays that the poor complainant would suffer for the rest of his working days? Effectively CASA can railroad anyone out of the industry with constant and unceasing additional medical test demands on anyone who puts their case to such a committee. The East Germans even had word for it: Zersetzung (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zersetzung).

I believe the ATO are great at playing the perpetual tax audit game for troublemakers. Why would CASA be any different? Who is going to protect someone from the arbitrary & capricious faceless Dr CASA?

[Chocks Away]

Led Zep et all:

Almost 1000 pilots are facing delays of two months or more to receive the medical certificates they need to fly because of a mammoth backlog within the aviation regulator’s new online medical portal.

About 170 pilots are also within 14 days of having their medical certificates expire — which will *effectively ground them and put them out of work — as the backlog continues to grow and slow down the processing system.

The logjam was created with the introduction of Civil Aviation Safety Authority’s online medical records system, which has been in operation since March 21. The new system was meant to streamline the application process and create a repository of pilot medical records for future use but teething problems with the system has instead created a slowdown that is now affecting hundreds of pilots.

The new system is processing about 1700 medical certificates a month, down from the 2000 a month that the old system was capable of issuing.

The delays mean there is now a backlog of about 900 pilots who are being told to expect waits of two months to receive their certificates. In about 400 cases, some are being told the wait is even longer.

Under the old system, the average processing time for Class 1 medical certificates — which are issued to holders of Air Transport Pilot Licences, Commercial Pilot Licences, Multi-crew Pilot Licences and Flight Engineer Licences — was 17 days.

But that time has now blown out to an average of 20 days as pilots and doctors come to grips with the new system.

The average processing time for Class 2 medical certificates (for student pilots, private pilots and balloon operators) is taking 27 days and Class 3 medical certificates (for air traffic controllers and flight service officers) about 21 days.

One pilot who contacted The Australian — but asked to remain anonymous — has had to wait six months to get clearance for a Class 1 Medical certificate and has lost work as a result of the delays.

“It’s been a total ‘fubar’. I’ve missed out on some jobs because this is hanging over my head,” the pilot said.

An investigation by The Australian prompted the Australian Federation of Air Pilots — the largest industrial and professional association for commercial *pilots in Australia with over 3500 commercial pilots — to survey its members about issues with the new system.

The response rate on the survey set a record for the AFAP which has collated 19 pages of complaints about the system. In total, some 69 per cent of the 312 respondents to the survey have reported problems and major delays with the new online system.

Many of those surveyed pilots reported around a seven- to eight- week wait to receive their medical certificates, while the most severe cases had seen waits of up to four months.

The most common complaints about the system are that it is slow or not working, recurring glitches resulting in incomplete applications and payment problems.

“My company has been on my back about the expiry and renewal and told me that if my medical expires they will stop paying me until it is renewed,” one pilot said.

“All the while, CASA is still sending me emails reminding me that my medical expires within 60 days, and what the renewal process is. I have done everything required to renew it, well ahead of the expiry date.”

CASA has acknowledged the problem and is shifting additional staff into its aviation medicine branch to cope with the strains on the system. Changes are also being made to workflow practices to improve turnaround times.

“Some medical certificates are taking more time to process. CASA apologises to pilots who have been waiting longer than normal for their medical to be *finalised and thanks everyone for their patience,” a CASA spokesman said.

“Anyone who considers they are facing hardship due to a delay in medical processing should contact CASA as soon as possible, and assistance will be provided.”

The aviation regulator is also prioritising medical certificate *applications where the current certificate is due to expire within 14 days.

“There are more than 400 medical certificate applications that have been lodged for eight weeks or longer. In the majority of these applications CASA requires further information from the applicant and/or specialist medical reports,” the CASA spokesman said.

Story: Mitchell Bingemann - Aviation Editor, The Australian. [email protected]

[Ollie Onion]

What a shambles!

[Jay Bo]

"are more than 400 medical certificate applications that have been lodged for eight weeks or longer. In the majority of these applications CASA requires further information from the applicant and/or specialist medical reports,” the CASA spokesman said"

So wouldn't the DAME already know what is required of the applicant if they needed further testing/reports to pass onto casa for review or is this CASA micro managing the DAME expertise.
Why have DAME in the first place. Maybe we should rock up to Canberra and get tested there and then at AVMED.

[Ollie Onion]

Well in my case CASA have become concerned due to me now having a family history of a heart condition that my Father was diagnosed last year. My DAME is more than happy with me as I have already had a test to rule out the genetic condition that triggered my fathers illness. Unfortunately it looks as though CASA may have a different attitude towards this as they may want me to undertake other tests in relation to my heart based on my fathers condition.

If the DAME had his way this wouldn't be required, however CASA will probably require further Cardiac testing. I don't have an issue with this in principal, what I have an issue with is that they have had my renewal application now for just under 7 weeks and haven't started to fully assess it yet due to the backlog. So if CASA come back to me now requiring a barrage of extra tests then I will be grounded until I can arrange to have all of those done, I just wish they could have put some sort of priority on this situation, it would seem though I am going to fall into the '400 pilots who require extra tests' category even though I could have had the tests done easily within the two month extension, if I knew what exact tests they were going to ask for.

In my situation the DAME has NO say whatsoever. A very frustrating situation for both of us.:ugh:

[Capt Fathom]

Ollie, surely if CASA had any concerns, they would have grounded you already!
I had a similar issue some years back. From memory I was given 3 months to get the tests done because of the time it takes to get a specialists appointment. I wasn't grounded in the interim.

[mikewil]

Well in my case CASA have become concerned due to me now having a family history of a heart condition that my Father was diagnosed last year.

Your biggest mistake was letting them know about your fathers condition.

This is really something of no relevance which they have no way of finding out anyway.

[Fantome]

CASA apologises to pilots who have been waiting longer than normal for their medical to be *finalised and thanks everyone for their patience,” a CASA spokesman said



It is the gross presumption inherent in the gratuitous " thanks everyone for their patience" that results in an elevated BP and (to throw back at the c**** a medical term) hyper peristalsis of the gastric mucosa.

PPRuNe posters over recent years have pointed to a high level of medical incompetency in Avmed and a mind-set that looks to fail you rather than looks to pass you.


STOP THE WORLD - I WANT TO GET OFF

[Fantome]

from thorn-bird the other day on the subject of Australian aviation companies being sold to major SE Asian and Chinese concerns through sales of these companies unable to compete against such mega-corporations and hence ripe for the picking. His attack on CAsA is particularly relevant and may give incidentally an insight into why Avmed is so sick and remedies are not about to be prescribed.

The PM and the opposition make mother goose statements of supporting jobs, encouraging innovation and enterprise on one hand, then completely ignore the efforts of their bureaucrats to smother them.

It is inconceivable to me that AVM Skidmore can, with a straight face, say the industry is in good shape.

To me he is either very naive, if he does actually believe that. A complete incompetent, if he accepts the overwhelming evidence is true and has no vision to fix it, or an arrant coward, if he's not prepared to face down his mis-management team and institute real reform.

We should be asking our politicians why it is that comparable countries to Australia have vibrant aviation Industries?

Mark Skidmore is so snowed under he could not care a fig or otherwise have the time and energies to institute the reforms that Avmed obviously so badly need to make it an efficient arm of the bureaucracy serving its clientele responsibly. Many many moons have passed since 'the public service' in Canberra took a quiet pride in generally speaking providing sound advice and delivering positive results across a broad swathe of departments.

[thorn bird]

But Fantome, those employed by CAsA are not public servants. They recieve all the perks, but are actually employed by a corporation.
Of course if CAsA was a real corporation it would have failed long ago because if there was a choice, its customers would have deserted it through lack of service.

[Led Zep]

Thanks, Chocks Away. Still waiting on mine, and the company is on my back about it. :\

[bobthebowler]

A few medicals back, I got the stamp and went home dumb fat and happy, then a couple of weeks later CASA advises me that one of my eyesight results fell below the minimum.

My first thought was...why didn't the DAME tell me that? Do the DAME's actually know what the minimums are for particular results like eyesight etc?

[Cloudee]

Had the five year medical recently. First went to the CASA approved eye doctor, lots of tests, passed all of them -$250.


Went to the DAME and guess what, read the eye chart, read the small print at 30 cm and at 1 metre, (with both glasses) and then do the colour blind test. CASA requirement according to the DAME.


Ridiculous bureaucratic doubling up.

[PatrickF]

Really feel for you guys trying to make a living from flying.
I fly for fun but still pay for the privilege of bureaucratic incompetence.
Did my medical back on 16th May and apart from the clumsy interface and the pain for the DAME which meant it took twice as long as usual, spiro test etc. included, all went well. Re validation runs out next week. Just got an email yesterday for further tests on my eye sight because I informed them that I had LASEK on one eye back in 2002, a procedure they were informed about at my next medical but now claim I hadn't previously advised. They are asking for details of the surgery from 15 years ago. Not sure why doctors would need to keep records from that far back when the AVMED website doesn't reflect reality form 2 years ago. I've had eye tests every year and medicals including Class 1s while I was in the UK every couple of years but they now need proof that the condition is stable ! Again I fly PPL for fun. Won't be now for a few more weeks/months while I go for another eye test and ask the ophthalmologist to answer as many of the questions as she/he can.

[Chocks Away]

Thanks for your replies. There is not doubt after this media attention (The Australian & here & a letter to the Minister) has created a quicker result for many of you... I finally got my Class 1 (instead of ATC 2) reissued the morning the Australian published their story!

[Chocks Away]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/flaws-in-pilots-medical-portal-put-doctors-off/news-story/8c80c201239cd8c50369f3cf8a380aa1

Flaws in pilots medical portal put doctors off
12:00AM JULY 8, 2016
Mitchell Bingemann

Doctors fed up with a backlog within the aviation regulator’s new online medical portal are refusing to conduct medicals on *pilots, saying the new system is costing them too much time and money.

Designated Aviation Medical Examiners (DAMEs) — who conduct medicals on pilots in accordance with the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations — have reached out to The Australian to express their frustration at the new system, which they say is taking twice as long to navigate compared to the previous system.

The frustration of the doctors has fed into the list of perceived problems with the online medical record system that is straining under a backlog of 2281 certificate applications that have not been assessed within 20 days of being received.

The logjam was created with the introduction of Civil Aviation Safety Authority’s online medical records system, which has been in operation since March 21.

The new system was meant to streamline the application process and create a repository of pilot medical records for future use, but teething problems with the system has instead created a slowdown that is now affecting thousands of pilots.

Last month, The Australian revealed that 170 pilots were within 14 days of having their medical certificates expire — which will effectively ground them and put them out of work — as the backlog continues to grow and slow down the processing system. But the number of medicals within 14 days of expiry has now grown to 227. CASA has put these applications on an urgent priority list.

A recent survey about the new system conducted by the Australian Federation of Air Pilots — the largest industrial and professional association for commercial pilots in Australia with over 3500 commercial pilots — collated 19 pages of complaints about the system.

In total, some 69 per cent of the 312 respondents to the survey have reported problems and major delays with the online system. The most common complaints are that it is slow or not working, recurring glitches resulting in incomplete applications and payment problems.

The problems are not only causing headaches for pilots, but also the doctors who administer the medicals required by CASA to fly.

“(My) DAME informed me that the process is now so flawed he will cease being a DAME. The added administration and bureaucratic process no longer makes it worth his while,” said one pilot.

Another pilot said his DAME is now requiring a 90-minute appointment to complete the medical process and submit the required information to CASA.

“Finding a doctor in Brisbane who was willing to do my medical was difficult. The first three that I called refused to do pilot medicals anymore due to the complexity and lack of training in the new system,” said another pilot.

A CASA spokeswoman acknowledged there were ongoing issues with the portal, but said there were 834 active DAMEs “who appear to be meeting demand”.

“CASA is aware of DAMES having issues with using MRS and has two support officers available to help DAMEs during business hours,” she said.

“CASA has also just completed one-on-one training with 51 DAMEs who were having difficulty with using the new system, which was well received. CASA is also looking into other ways of providing ongoing training for MRS to DAMEs.”

In the past week CASA has issued 533 medicals, which was 61

[Ultralights]

just sayin..

MEDICAL REFORM BECOMES LAW
PRESIDENT SIGNS FAA EXTENSION
President Barack Obama on July 15 signed third class medical reforms into law as part of an FAA authorization extension passed by the House and Senate days earlier. With the president’s signature, which came just hours before the FAA’s authorization was set to expire at midnight, medical reforms became law and the clock started ticking on an FAA mandate to translate that law into regulations.
Pilots who follow the necessary steps can fly in aircraft weighing up to 6,000 lbs. gross takeoff weight, with up to six seats and carrying up to five passengers. They can fly day or night, VFR or IFR, at speeds up to 250 kts and at altitudes up to 18,000 feet msl.
Pilots who follow the necessary steps can fly in aircraft weighing up to 6,000 lbs. gross takeoff weight, with up to six seats and carrying up to five passengers. They can fly day or night, VFR or IFR, at speeds up to 250 kts and at altitudes up to 18,000 feet msl.
“We did it together! Medical reforms are now the law, and that’s a big win for general aviation,” said AOPA President Mark Baker. “It has taken years of commitment and hard work to make these reforms a reality. AOPA and EAA started the current reform effort back in 2012 when we petitioned the FAA for a medical exemption but the terms of that petition were much more limited than what pilots will get under the new reform law. This is something our entire community can get excited about.”

We did it together! Medical reforms are now the law, and that’s a big win for general aviation.—AOPA President Mark Baker

Although the extension only keeps the FAA running through September 2017, the medical reforms are permanent, and the FAA now has one year to develop and enact rules that align with the reforms. Pilots will not be allowed to fly under the reforms until the FAA has completed its rulemaking or the one-year time limit has elapsed, whichever comes first. The FAA has not yet said when it will begin the rulemaking process or what form that process will take.
“The reforms are now law and that means we’re in the home stretch when it comes to getting more pilots flying without compelling them to repeatedly go through the expensive and burdensome medical certification process,” said Baker. “But there’s more work to do to ensure that the law is translated into regulations that make sense and work in the real world.”

At a Glance
Medical reform highlights

Aircraft specifications: Up to six seats, up to 6,000 pounds (no limitations on horsepower, number of engines, or gear type)
Flight rules: Day and night VFR and IFR
Passengers: Up to five passengers
Aeromedical training: Pilots must take a free online course every two years
Altitude restrictions: Up to 18,000 feet msl
Airspeed limitations: 250 knots indicated airspeed
Pilot limitations: Cannot operate for compensation or hire
Under the reforms, pilots who have held a valid medical certificate any time in the decade prior to July 15, 2016, may not need to take another FAA medical exam. The 10-year lookback period applies to both regular and special issuance medicals. Pilots whose most recent medical certificate was revoked, suspended, withdrawn, or denied will need to obtain a new medical certificate before they can operate under the reforms. Pilots who have never held an FAA medical certificate, including student pilots, will need to go through the process one time only.

After meeting the initial requirements to fly under the reforms, pilots will need to visit a state-licensed physician at least once every four years and take a free online course on aeromedical factors every two years. More details about these requirements and answers to the most common questions about the reforms are available on AOPA's FAQ page.

"We have fought long and hard for medical reforms and thanks to the support of GA supporters in both the House and Senate, those reforms are now the law. We are very pleased that pilots will soon reap the benefits, but the devil is always in the details, and some of those details will be worked out in the rulemaking process," said Jim Coon, AOPA senior vice president of government affairs. "That's why our team will be closely monitoring the FAA's next steps and providing input and the pilots' perspective at every opportunity."

What happens next?
With medical reforms now the law, we’ve got some work to do to make sure pilots can take full advantage of the benefits they will offer.

Although the reform legislation included considerable detail about what the new rules should look like, it did not actually create new rules for pilots to follow. That task falls to the FAA, which has up to one year to develop and enact rules that meet the requirements of the law. Once the FAA has enacted the new rules, or one year has passed from the date the reforms became law, many pilots will be able to fly without ever needing to take another FAA medical exam.

The FAA has not yet said when it will start the rulemaking process or how that process will unfold, but AOPA will be engaged at every step along the way to make sure the interests of our members are represented.

During the coming months, AOPA also will begin the process of educating doctors, insurers, and pilots about the reforms and what they mean. We will help doctors understand and feel comfortable with their roles and responsibilities in performing medical exams for pilots. Insurance companies will need to understand how the new rules will affect pilots and how they compare to existing medical standards, like the one used by sport pilots. And pilots, too, will need to dig into the rules and understand how they relate to their individual situations.

At the same time, some pilots who’ve been out of the cockpit for a while may use this opportunity to return to flying. AOPA is expanding its Rusty Pilots program, which provides the information pilots need to catch up on changes that may have taken place since their last flight as pilot in command. Completion of the three-hour seminar counts as the ground portion of the flight review, and some Rusty Pilots programs qualify for FAA Wings credit. Search for an upcoming seminar on AOPA.org, or attend one at EAA AirVenture or at an AOPA Regional Fly-In.


so, whats the requirements to fly over here on a FAA ticket? and register my aircraft with a N number?

[Sandy Reith]

Well in my case CASA have become concerned due to me now having a family history of a heart condition that my Father was diagnosed last year. My DAME is more than happy with me as I have already had a test to rule out the genetic condition that triggered my fathers illness. Unfortunately it looks as though CASA may have a different attitude towards this as they may want me to undertake other tests in relation to my heart based on my fathers condition.

If the DAME had his way this wouldn't be required, however CASA will probably require further Cardiac testing. I don't have an issue with this in principal, what I have an issue with is that they have had my renewal application now for just under 7 weeks and haven't started to fully assess it yet due to the backlog. So if CASA come back to me now requiring a barrage of extra tests then I will be grounded until I can arrange to have all of those done, I just wish they could have put some sort of priority on this situation, it would seem though I am going to fall into the '400 pilots who require extra tests' category even though I could have had the tests done easily within the two month extension, if I knew what exact tests they were going to ask for.

In my situation the DAME has NO say whatsoever. A very frustrating situation for both of us.:ugh:

My grandfather died of a boil on the neck, blood poisoning. I suppose I'd better ground myself, now aware that family medical history must be accounted for. Wonder if I can find grandfather's medical records (d.1913)? Fact is I do get a boiling feeling with the bouts of Casaitus that come on when spending money on unnecessary tests or wasting $thousands on new Aussie unique aircraft maintenance requirements.

[LeadSled]

--- so, whats the requirements to fly over here on a FAA ticket? and register my aircraft with a N number? Ultralights,
Re. an FAA Class 3 medical, and a PPL ( or up, and not issued as a validation of a foreign license), it is reasonably straight forward, but there will be cost involved, get onto the FAA web site.
There is no CASA restriction on the private operation of an N registered Part 23 and up aircraft, but you will have to make arrangements for the US title to be held in US, and make arrangements for the annual inspection --- that is a very short summary ---- but it is possible, practical is another thing. If it is a Business Jet, too easy, a C-172??
Perhaps consider getting the full FAA PPL (or up, not a validation) then having it validated by CASA to fly VH- aircraft. There are a few other wrinkles (two year BFR) but it is possible.
Tootle pip!!

[Ultralights]

you can buy postal address's in the USA, even property in some cities for a few tens of $$, and the cost of flying an FAA lame out here would still come in a lot cheaper than paying for it here.

How does the new ruling in the US go for the Class 3 medical? and PPL's

[RadioSaigon]

7 WEEKS to get my MedCert. Magic new "system" you've got there CAsA.

[Sandy Reith]

you can buy postal address's in the USA, even property in some cities for a few tens of $$, and the cost of flying an FAA lame out here would still come in a lot cheaper than paying for it here.

How does the new ruling in the US go for the Class 3 medical? and PPL's
As I understand the US position the new law requires the FAA to promulgate appropriate regs re medicals for PPL in line with the legislation. They must comply within a time limit, one year as per the previous post on this thread from AOPA US so it's a done deal in principle but the FAA obviously must transition the regs.

[topdrop]

Things might be improving. Required ECG, Audio, Lipids, Glucose, Opthalmology and DAME examination. Received the extension on the day of the DAME medical. Received the renewal 8 days later - I still find it hard to believe - well done Avmed.

[Capt Fathom]

Not hard to believe.

If there are no issues with the information you are required to supply, then the whole process is straight forward.

[smiling monkey]

CLARC is also processing IPCs at a much faster rate than before. My IPC done on the Friday, CASA database updated on the following Tuesday with the new expiry date. Well done!

[Lead Balloon]

Stockholm Syndrome.

Giving the bureaucracy a "well done" for finally doing its job properly is like giving a taxi driver a "well done" for getting you to your destination.

You're paying them to do the job, remember? :ugh:

[thorn bird]

Lead so true, we pay and we pay and we pay.

I cannot for the life of me see any logical reason why we can't have a US style system in this country.

Is there any evidence that the US system results in any more death dives from incapacitation than Australia. Perhaps we are less healthy than them requiring our regulator to morph into defacto health managers, something unfortunately they seem rather incompetent at.

The FAA screens their medical examiners thoroughly, provides training and approves them to assess the medical competency of their airmen, a simple cost effective system.

The system in Australia, one suspects, is driven by "Empire building" within a completely unmanaged, unaccountable bureaucracy with a fee gouging rort to cover the costs.

Serves no safety purpose and potentially could do the opposite.

[myshoutcaptain]

Class 1 renewal on 29th Sept. (Basic renewal)

Received new Certificate in email 4th October.

6 days including a 3 day long weekend.

I'll be buggered. :D

[logansi]

Just had a friend do his ARn through CLARC and it was done within 4 hours of the email being sent off, took them a couple of weeks for me.

[rjtjrt]

CASA AVMED remarkable performance.
Did my Class 2 medical with DAME last Thursday.
Received renewal 4 days later, despite needing a blood test with DAME.
Absolutely stunning performance.
I am no believer in CASA in general, but AVMED at present are to be congratulated for the turn around in performance. Credit where it is due.

[training wheels]

Yes, they've finally got their act together. I did my class 1 on a Monday and was emailed my new medical on Wednesday. And this was done from overseas. Although apparently there is still a bug in the system where the records that the DAME brings up from the centralised database shows peoples' birthdate as one day earlier than the actual date. My DAME brought this to my attention. LOL

[IsDon]

Yes, they've finally got their act together. I did my class 1 on a Monday and was emailed my new medical on Wednesday. And this was done from overseas. Although apparently there is still a bug in the system where the records that the DAME brings up from the centralised database shows peoples' birthdate as one day earlier than the actual date. My DAME brought this to my attention. LOL

Someone forgot about the leap year.

I wonder if it's getting their act together, or finally caving to the immense pressure they were under and shortcutting their own bureaucratic processes. Either way, hopefully recent outcomes will be the norm from now on.

[Con Catenator]

48 hours for the certificate - my medical also requires extra bits and pieces.


This is the fastest turnaround I have seen - so well done :ok:

[fizflyer]

I did mine in October. Got it in less than 24 hrs. Just make sure the DAME does it online while you are there in his/her rooms. My DAME did comment that the internet line to casa stalls occassionally. Well done.

[Chocks Away]

Yes Con, an incredible turn around... back as it should have always been.
I received mine the same day.
Apart from a few online comparability issues with the websites, it all appears fine... BUT it has absolutely NO idea about your history!
It is totally dislocated from your previous years of Medicals... they have disappeared! Carput! Vanished!
This a huge issue for monitoring trends of various medical conditions!
(I give up)
Happy Landings:ok:

[Tankengine]

Did Medical today, after doing the online declarations a few weeks ago, new temporary certificate emailed while still at Doctor’s so he printed for me.
THREE HOURS AND FOUR MINUTES later a second email from avmed with new class 1.!!
It seems the system is working fine now. :)
...

[Okihara]

@Tankengine: Did you renew your certificate or was it a first issuance?

[Tankengine]

@Tankengine: Did you renew your certificate or was it a first issuance?
renewal of class1. (For about the 38th time);)

[sta5fhl]

same for me, temporary certificate emailed straight away. new medical 1 - 2 days later