CAA Provisional Airport Stats [Archive]

MANFOD

24th May 2016, 12:40

Very late! They used to be out between the 14th and 16th depending how weekends fell.

If the airports supply the data to the CAA it could be that too many airports are late providing the information. If it's just one or two airports, they normally release the rest.
Or I imagine it could be problems with the CAA system.

NewquayJacob

24th May 2016, 16:16

I think it's just changed over to a new reporting system so that could be the reason for the delay.

bycrewlgw

24th May 2016, 18:51

Perfect thanks guys. Just thought it was me being stupid and not looking in the right place! :-)

Flightrider

24th May 2016, 19:08

In all fairness, you're not the only one - I've checked several times, as the new design of the CAA website is definitely a retrograde step versus the old one. It's far harder to find things, and the data download formats are an absolute mess if you are trying to look at or compare data from successive years or months. Someone has re-designed this without taking any account of how people might use what they produce.

MerchantVenturer

24th May 2016, 19:31

I agree with you Flightrider, and the delayed publication dates of the monthly provisional airport stats seems to have started when the new website came into existence a few months ago.

It might be coincidental of course but there is no doubt that most months they are now published at least a week later, sometimes longer, than used to be the case.

There is no inherent problem in that for the avid statisticians - just have to wait a bit longer - but the layout of and journey around the new site is disappointing.

Jamesair

24th May 2016, 22:15

The Heathrow domestic figures were all over the place a couple of months ago.

The old site used to show the expected release date for the figures which was helpful.

Another "improvement" to a perfectly good website.

Jamesair

27th May 2016, 15:44

Nearly June and still no sign of the April statistics. Has anyone news of a possible release date?

cornishsimon

1st Jun 2016, 17:02

Now June and nothing
All very odd

cs

4eyed anorak

6th Jun 2016, 09:25

6th of June and still nothing for April!

MANFOD

6th Jun 2016, 09:35

I just wonder if the provisional stats report is being discontinued with just one 'final' report
being issued.

4eyed anorak

6th Jun 2016, 10:19

Even if that was the case April`s figures should be out by now!

EssexMan61

16th Jun 2016, 22:35

Should one now assume that these figures are NEVER going to appear? Why has the CAA not set out the reasons for this delay? Or have they just cancelled them? Come on CAA - please say SOMETHING!!

CaptainDoony

16th Jun 2016, 22:40

There is an acknowledgement on their website that with the new reporting system, data will be delayed. No mention of how long though.

Estimated release dates

With the launch of AvStats, the system that processes airport and airline data, there is a delay to the release of published reports. We will update this page as soon as further information is available.

Data Month Date Available On Website

https://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-Airport-data/Release-dates---airport-data/

Bagso

17th Jun 2016, 05:20

So basically they have introduced a new IT system it hasn't been properly beta tested and has gone #### up

More interestingly what on earth is the new system , is it reporting mechanism or website?

What on earth is AvStats ?

A simpleton could pull this info together for the top 20 airports in less than a day with Excel, pen , paper , calculator ?

West Brit

17th Jun 2016, 05:30

Its all about providing a better service, being more efficent. Fix something that works fine.......

eye2eye5

17th Jun 2016, 09:51

Should one now assume that these figures are NEVER going to appear? Why has the CAA not set out the reasons for this delay? Or have they just cancelled them? Come on CAA - please say SOMETHING!!
In a nutshell, you highlight the issue here. It is completely unacceptable for the CAA to ignore its users in this way. There should be a message on the web page, updated regularly, stating what the issue is and giving some idea as to the date of resolution. I note that it has a transformation manager who should have a grip of issues like this.

True Blue

17th Jun 2016, 09:58

What do you expect of a government dept?

eye2eye5

17th Jun 2016, 11:44

What do you expect of a government dept?

In this day and age, I expect better.

BHX5DME

17th Jun 2016, 12:09

Surely the airport supply all the data, the CAA just pull it together - How hard can that be ?

EastMids

17th Jun 2016, 13:57

The way it was explained to me was:

1. Airports provide figures to a third party
2. Third part collates figures
3. CAA publish figures on their website

However, the way in which figures are reported has changed due to some new EU regulation. Airports will be fined if they don't produce the figures in a certain way. Almost all airports have made the change, the third party has adapted, but the CAA system (or website?) cannot yet accept figures in the revised format.

Don't shoot the messenger - just what I'm told...

eye2eye5

17th Jun 2016, 15:20

sinbad73

17th Jun 2016, 16:03

The CAA should be fined!

GrahamK

18th Jun 2016, 03:51

Perhaps most people are refusing to have their boarding cards scanned at WHSmith now and theres insufficient data to process ;)

Musket90

18th Jun 2016, 21:13

CAA is not a government department. It's totally financed by industry, so if it's fined for any reason it's industry who are paying it.

118.70

6th Jul 2016, 08:53

From

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/342865/response/833207/attach/3/20160704Reply.pdfhttp://

Your request:
‘When are you going to bother publishing Airport Statistics for the month of April 2016?
Is there a timetable for future release of Airport Statistics or are they publishd only if you
can be bothered?
https://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-airportdata/’
Our response:
Having considered your request in line with the provisions of the Freedom of Information
Act 2000 (FOIA), we are able to provide the information below.
We have recently launched a new system called AvStats for processing and reporting on
Airport and Airline data. With the launch of this new system there is currently a delay to the
release of published reports. We hope to have this updated shortly, but at this time we are
unable to give a definitive date when the reports will be published.
I am sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you. We will update our release dates
page as soon as further information is available at
http://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-Airportdata/
Release-dates---airport-data/
Further information relating to AvStats can be found at
https://www.

flyerboy

6th Jul 2016, 17:45

April stats are now available on their website

Flightrider

6th Jul 2016, 19:15

It's quite extraordinary. If the CAA saw a UK airline publishing an indefinite delay to a flight and providing no information to its customers for two months, they'd be all over them like a rash. However, it's perfectly acceptable for the CAA to do the same thing in reverse to users of the statistics service including, I presume, UK airlines. Totally unacceptable state of affairs.

LGS6753

7th Jul 2016, 10:19

Two notable absentees - LTN and STN

Jamesair

7th Jul 2016, 16:47

The stats involving NCL seem to be full of unlikely figures, I don't how other airports figures look.

eye2eye5

7th Jul 2016, 16:58

The stats involving NCL seem to be full of unlikely figures, I don't how other airports figures look.

LPL appears to be reasonably accurate.

BHX5DME

4th Aug 2016, 19:41

May figures not until w/c 01.09.16 !!

Airline data release notes | UK Civil Aviation Authority (http://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airlines/Datasets/UK-Airline-data/Airline-data-release-notes/)

j636

3rd Sep 2016, 12:44

May and June both out now.

inOban

3rd Sep 2016, 13:00

A large number of airports are missing from the June data, including Luton stansted and Glasgow

Expressflight

3rd Sep 2016, 13:13

........ and a lot of use they are with so many major airports' data not being included. Surely someone at the CAA needs to be held accountable for this shambles

Red Four

3rd Sep 2016, 13:26

'CAA' and 'held accountable' in a single sentence - a novel concept... but one I could not disagree with.

CaptainDoony

3rd Sep 2016, 17:36

It would surely have been less time consuming to say which airports are available for June! :ugh:

MerchantVenturer

3rd Sep 2016, 17:53

The CAA is also discontinuing a number of its tables with a further table, on the CAA's own admission, not yet published because there are too many omissions and yet another one contains a number of airports marked as 'unknown' which the CAA says it is investigating.

LEEDS APPROACH

8th Oct 2016, 20:26

This is an absolute scandalous disgrace! In a world where failing airports are bankrolling airlines to come and operate unsustainable routes with half empty aircraft - now Joe Public cannot check the passenger amounts per sector flown (load factor) on certain routes for months.

After 6 months, of course, no one is particularly interested in the load factors for May! We get the 'booming airport' headlines in the local rag while at the same time the important information is hidden from the Public. Don't tell me this is an accident! This is certainly not progress from a system that worked perfectly fine. Hide the real facts from the Public and let's keep them in ignorant bliss while we waste tax payers money on private companies.

VickersVicount

8th Oct 2016, 21:25

the data is all there for those who need it, unfortunately the spotters and public will just have to wait. You shouldn't lose any sleep over it.

LEEDS APPROACH

8th Oct 2016, 21:57

the data is all there for those who need it, unfortunately the spotters and public will just have to wait. You shouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Says "VickersViscount" - 512 posts - yes you will have to be patient! The Public didn't use to and shouldn't have to wait - The information should be available - so we can see which airports are completely failing. Of course the Government don't want you to see which companies they are futilely spending your tax on!

I don't lose sleep over it but it does need to be made clear. It's a disgraceful hiding of the facts in a society that tries to hoodwink the populous.

SWBKCB

9th Oct 2016, 05:40

LEEDS APPROACH

9th Oct 2016, 07:43

July stats are available on the CAA website - if there is nothing showing for certain airports, I would suspect that's more down to the airport than the CAA (which of course feeds into certain agenda's.... :suspect:)

You 'suspect' - so you don't really know then. What we can all agree on is that the airports (up until this year) used to promptly pass their statistics on just fine for 100s of consecutive months.

So the openness, accountability, accuracy and promptness of the important statistics has now been lost.

The people who do need to know these stats are the Public - that's who airports predominantly move. The Public would like to know if private airports and private airlines are being propped up in exactly the same way the Public like to be kept informed about failing schools and hospitals etc.

We have gone backwards in time in terms of accountability. Wanting openness and accountability is not about having an agenda.

davidjohnson6

9th Oct 2016, 07:48

Why can't the CAA just revert back to old systems and processes ?

SWBKCB

9th Oct 2016, 07:54

What we can all agree on is that the airports (up until this year) used to promptly pass their statistics on just fine for 100s of consecutive months.

No we can't - I think that you'll find that even in the "olden days", the monthly stats were incomplete, that's why they are described as provisional.

The people who do need to know these stats are the Public - that's who airports predominantly move. The Public would like to know if private airports and private airlines are being propped up in exactly the same way the Public like to be kept informed about failing schools and hospitals etc.

Most airports are private business - if you are saying they are being propped up, you must be aware of any tax funding they are getting (and the amounts, to do a decent assessment) - where is this available?

Andy_S

9th Oct 2016, 08:41

Of course the Government don't want you to see which companies they are futilely spending your tax on!

Where's the evidence that the government are propping up airports? If any are failing then the financial burden falls upon the owners, not the government.

LEEDS APPROACH

9th Oct 2016, 08:47

without getting into the usual bickering tennis match with spotters -

Why can't the CAA just revert back to old systems and processes ?

Of course the statistics could be made available just as they always have been (on time and the vast majority accurate and without issue).

In other words is it an accident that we have gone backwards in time? No of course it isn't. Too much information for the Public is a dangerous thing for those in charge.

I want to know, before booking, why my CDG flight only had 22 people on board before I book that flight again (for example). Information like that though can tip the balance in very dog eat dog and precarious industry [which the last few weeks has highlighted).

We have gone backwards in time.

HeartyMeatballs

9th Oct 2016, 08:49

Well Dundee and Prestwick are bankrolled by the tax payer. Cardiff has many subsidised services. The many HIAL airports are heavily subsidised.

LEEDS APPROACH

9th Oct 2016, 08:53

Where's the evidence that the government are propping up airports? If any are failing then the financial burden falls upon the owners, not the government.

This is exactly the point - more and more 'evidence' is being withheld. We used to be able to see how routes were performing (promptly). Now we cannot.

Multi million ££ carriageways to airports that cannot repeatedly make a Belfast service work. The real world.

SWBKCB

9th Oct 2016, 09:12

without getting into the usual bickering tennis match with spotters

= I've got no facts to back up by paranoid accusations.

DaveReidUK

9th Oct 2016, 09:32

Why can't the CAA just revert back to old systems and processes ?

To do so would require someone, probably in a senior position, to eat humble pie and admit the whole affair has been a c*ck-up.

When have you ever known that happen ?

SWBKCB

9th Oct 2016, 09:40

Can somebody point me to this golden age when the CAA stats turned up every month on time and complete?

Funnily enough, all I seem to remember from before this years hiatus is moans about them being late and incomplete..

LEEDS APPROACH

9th Oct 2016, 14:59

For goodness sake - there is no conspiracy just a monumental cock-up by the CAA for which nobody yet seems to have been held accountable.

The CAA made a botched attempt to privatise the service last April.Against the advice of many airports they sent the system live despite it being inadequately thought through, poorly specified and insufficiently tested.

Airports have been struggling to file their data since the off, those with huge resources to draw on are managing better than those run on a shoe string, some appear to have given up completely.

Most of the staff at the CAA who used to check, query and correct the data under the old system were made redundant in May, which is why they cannot go back to the old system (which for all its minor faults still delivered most information in a timely manner).

This whole fiasco will have great educational value in the future as text book case study of "How not to implement an IT data project".

Dress it up any which way you like!

We have gone backwards in time.

If staff - who did their jobs well - have been sacked, then rehire them tomorrow morning. The information we are getting now is a disgrace and not acceptable. Most private companies at the failing airports / airlines do not want Joe Public to be able to see these figures at a very critical time in history when we exactly need to. These are very basic statistics and so no I don't believe this is just a 'cock up' going on month after month. All too convenient to label these deliberate plans as 'cock ups'!

SWBKCB

9th Oct 2016, 15:13

LA - if these are private businesses (as you state), why are you entitled to see these operating details? For what purpose? Do you apply this level of scrutiny to any other business?

LEEDS APPROACH

9th Oct 2016, 15:47

LA - if these are private businesses (as you state), why are you entitled to see these operating details? For what purpose? Do you apply this level of scrutiny to any other business?

Yes they are Private companies - who are serving the Public. Without the public they will completely fail. Just like private or public hospitals and schools etc etc (which I have mentioned). I will not fly with a certain airline that has continually chopped and changed its routes every half year because I am concerned that it is being paid just to operate unsustainable routes. I used to fly with this airline multiple times per year.

So yes I would like to see which projects etc are working and which are being given a helping hand with my money. Taking away theses figures takes away, in some part, the ability of the public to make informed choices.

If you are not bothered swbkcb that is just fine but I (and many other people) would like access to this very basic data. It really is a very straight forward principle.

LEEDS APPROACH

9th Oct 2016, 15:54

It's over to the caa to sort it out in the morning! Make these stats promptly available just as you do so with CAP168! Funny how there is no 'cock up' with the accuracy of this document!?

We are talking very very basic figures of how many souls are sitting on a jet!

BCALBOY

9th Oct 2016, 17:05

Firstly , I doubt more than 0.1 % of the general population know these figures exist , let alone use them in deciding their travel habits.

What conclusions can be drawn from average passengers per flight on an individual route ? We have no yield information and no cost information and we don't know what the objectives of the airline or airport are .

An airline may be happy with a middle of the day operated route averaging 25 pax per flight if it iis covering operating costs and make at least some contribution to overheads.At the same time it may not be happy with a route averaging 80 pax per flt ,if that route doesn't cover the cost of owning or leasing an aircraft to operate a peak Service.

Airlines like easyjet , Ryanair, BA use sophisticated models to ensure they don't fly empty seats. This involves adjusting fares to provide the required demand.
In the longer term if the airline is having to junk yields in order to fill the flights , the route won't survive .You can't tell from average loads alone if a route is successful or not. The fact that a route is averaging the same number of pax per flt as the same time last year doesn't mean it's producing the same result.They may have cut average yield 20 % to fill the same number of seats as they did last year.

Similarly routes with the same average loads may have very different results depending on yield , exchange rate , costs.

I am interested in the CAA statistics but to suggest there is some conspiracy to conceal info ,or to suggest the general public should use this figures to police actions is OTT . the airlines and airports make their own commercial decisions based on all the facts and figures they have access to.

stewyb

9th Oct 2016, 18:23

Jesus, I think some posters need to get out more!:)

Logohu

9th Oct 2016, 19:40

Jesus, I think some posters need to get out more!:)

Don't worry Yorkshire's very own version of Victor Meldrew is getting out in the morning - straight down to CAA, and I wouldn't like to be in their shoes when they open the doors (queue multiple shouts of "I don't believe it !!) 😃

LEEDS APPROACH

16th Oct 2016, 08:25

Any body who says that this is an "IT fault / problem / cock up failure etc" does not understand IT!

We are not talking complicated algorithms - these figures are the most basic, straight forward passenger amounts and are exactly known as the last second of each calendar month ticks past and this is why they have been done accurately and promptly for 100s of consecutive months.

So no - this is most definitely not an IT cock up.

Yes the vast majority of the travelling public do not check these figures but if the media note that a particular route is flying with aircraft just a quarter full month after month then questions begin to be asked. Of course, if these basic statistics are not available - no questions get asked.

A slow and deliberate removal of openness and accountability.

Victor Meldrew

Ringwayman

16th Oct 2016, 18:16

if the media note that a particular route is flying with aircraft just a quarter full month after month then questions begin to be asked.

And why would it be of any concern to the media that an airline may run with 25% loads on a route? If the passengers on that route are paying sufficiently high fares then the route could be profitable. Whereas as on a low-cost airlines, having 150 passengers paying a tenner may result in 90% loads and an unprofitable route.

DaveReidUK

16th Oct 2016, 18:56

When the two possible reasons for something not working as intended are conspiracy or c*ck-up, it's almost always safe to bet on the latter. :O

CabinCrewe

27th Oct 2016, 16:32

some CAA stats updated...

EK77WNCL

27th Oct 2016, 17:24

I really don't feel like I can trust any of the stats, loads of them are still incomplete

Is there any plan as to when or if this will ever get sorted out?

CaptainDoony

27th Oct 2016, 20:49

"THIS DATA IS NOW COMPLETE"

If they say so. Where is half the Aberdeen stats then? And I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg :ugh:

Can't get some basic stats right but happy to give it their best shot trying to run an airline into the ground. :mad:

LGS6753

9th Nov 2016, 19:17

Nothing from Luton since June!

toon22

3rd Apr 2017, 11:52

So here we are in April and still no February data. It always used to be the 15th or 16th of the month following. What chance of a return to this standard? Come on CAA, this shambolic state of affairs has been goon on for more than a year.

Jamesair

3rd Apr 2017, 14:43

Ah well, toon22, this is the new, improved system, what do you expect?...the old system was working far too well and needed fixing.

inOban

3rd Apr 2017, 15:14

Doesn't the problem lie with the airports who are failing to submit data in the standard format?

DaveReidUK

3rd Apr 2017, 15:25

Doesn't the problem lie with the airports who are failing to submit data in the standard format?

I suspect the reasons proposed in post #22 are rather more feasible than the suggestion that a large proportion of UK airports have suddenly become incapable of supplying basic stats on their operations.

The way it was explained to me was:

1. Airports provide figures to a third party
2. Third part collates figures
3. CAA publish figures on their website

However, the way in which figures are reported has changed due to some new EU regulation. Airports will be fined if they don't produce the figures in a certain way. Almost all airports have made the change, the third party has adapted, but the CAA system (or website?) cannot yet accept figures in the revised format.

Maybe with Brexit looming they can stick two fingers up to the EU regulation and reinstate the old system that the CAA seemed to be able to cope OK with? :O