Plotting chart in the digital cockpit

[neil armstrong]

Hi
im wondering what other company's do with oceanic plotting charts?
its the only paper chart remaining in our cockpit and i think that like the other paper charts it should be on its way out.

your thoughts please

Thanks

Neil

[Marlon Brando]

I agree with you.



You were really on the moon or not ?

[Lucky8888]

Hi
im wondering what other company's do with oceanic plotting charts?
its the only paper chart remaining in our cockpit and i think that like the other paper charts it should be on its way out.

your thoughts please

Thanks

Neil
That would be nice and probably could be automated but I don't think that is going to happen any time soon. Actually, I don't mind manually updating the charts as it keeps us "on our toes" from a checks and balances perspective.

[Globally Challenged]

I agree with Lucky - its another chance to pickup nav errors and when the poo hits the fan, its nice to see where the other tracks are etc.

[FlyMD]

Saw a demo the other day of a Jeppesen flight package uploaded to a large-size iPad pro. You could fill out the flight plan with the stylus on the pad, and the aircraft position will appear on enroute e-charts as long as the pad has gps reception. This being independent of aircraft "mixed" position, you could graphically x-check the airplane position and correlate it with the graphical NAT track sheer Jetplan produces...
If you take the pain to get the hardware and describe a procedure in your OM-B, I'm pretty sure the authority would approve it....

[neil armstrong]

We're moving everything to the iPad and I've done my last paper Jepp update a month ago!
I would like a plot chart on the iPad that you can draw on.

Neil

[MarkerInbound]

With the CONFIRM ASSIGNED ROUTE message coming up on CPDLC, the pilot with his box of crayons is going to the last person to know he's lost.

And we still plot, even on published routes like out to Hawaii, because "ICAO says to."

[Fly4Business]

We're moving everything to the iPad and I've done my last paper Jepp update a month ago!
I would like a plot chart on the iPad that you can draw on.

Neil
Change to iPad Pro ...

We changed cockpit iPads to Pro recently and now with Apple Pencil we can draw on almost any document with the right program (only our documents in Apples own Pages and Numbers have to be converted to MS Office documents, because Apple support for that technology is not sufficient in their own office suite ... what the hack is going on at Apple development?).

A pilot fellow took my plotting charts to his wife's multimedia company big scanner and made a PDF of it. On the iPad Pro I can now draw on it like on any paper and keep the paper for backup in the case. I guess it is just a matter of time until the charts are available officially as PDF.

[Albus_Dumbledore]

I have no issue with filling in a plotting chart. It allows us to teach the newbies procedures for backup use including HF, and give them some sense of situational awareness to the system. :ok:

I have already had issues with iPads not being able to cope with the volume of data I wish to view on an enroute chart and then locking up and having to shutdown and reopen the app or hard reset the iPad. :mad::ugh:

Also, the electronic enroute does not replace the Atlantic Orientation by an acceptable means. The information takes too long to easily find compared with looking at the chart. It is far better for line training, in conjunction with the plotting chart.

FFS, what else do you have to do on a long trip nowadays apart from drink coffee, criticise the industry and management (because we know we can all do it better) and fill in the Times Crossword???!!!

That's my two-penneth.

Albus

[Fly4Business]

It is 2016, BUT ... both worlds, the "old" analog and the "new" digital do have their justification. Mastering the balance between the two is excellence, not beating the other to death.

Old folks tend to look from above to the young ones, stop it! Electronic charting does have advantages and offers function we did not have before. Welcome the additional aids and keep teaching the younger the basics behind, it may safe their life sometimes. We old can not defend things, we die ... and have to make sure our knowledge remains in many human brains, so no few understanding can build an empire off it.

Young folks tend to look electronically from above to the old ones, stop it! Paper charts have advantages and have proven numerous times to safe live, long before the gadgets arrived. Understand the analog basics, before or in parallel to electronics, and be able to master the analog world in case the digital freaks up. If you know the analog, you can be enabled to notice when electronics try to kill you. Be a master in analog underlying before you speak up loud for the electronics.

So, from general to special - with bigger electronic gadget screens overview like oceanic charts are getting closer to the analog versions and even if not all are confident it is ready to replace the paper charts, some new adventurer are going to try. Let's support them.

[First.officer]

As Fly4Business says, the iPad Pro (with Apple Pencil) works really well for making notes in freehand on any PDF document (notwithstanding you have a relevant app, say Fluix etc.).

Of course, whilst we can do this, it's also a matter of (for those of us living in the world of EASA, AOC Ops.) satisfying the criteria laid down in AMC 20-25, TGL-36 etc, and gaining approval from the CAA....and this I know only too well, can be where the various "problems" can occur....been there, done that, doing it currently...personally I'd like to see us have the ability to complete the OFP's etc., using the Apple Pencil, and then return electronically (email, submitted form) with all other paperwork (photo's of tech log pages inserted in relevant areas of forms we've created etc.).

As for Jepp's FD-Pro, as great as it is, getting AMMD approval (ETSO-c165a) is a bit of a nightmare to use the aircraft symbol as depicted, using the in-built GPS receiver of the iPad....because the accuracy just isn't good enough when overlaid on Taxi Plates (10-9, 9A etc.), and you can find the aircraft symbol just isn't where it is supposed to be...maybe an external aerial would fix that, but hell of a cost implication for STC's etc. - maybe a window sucker internally might work, but again you have to prove a safety case..

As it was once said "I have a dream" haha....but it's coming along nicely...

F/o

[Lucky8888]

With the CONFIRM ASSIGNED ROUTE message coming up on CPDLC, the pilot with his box of crayons is going to the last person to know he's lost.


Except when you get the dreaded "Reroute" and don't have a computer flight plan. Of course, you can pick up the phone and call your flight planning service and all is well. Oh, the phone doesn't work? Oh well.

Just say'in.

[safelife]

The plotting charts are available as pdf, vector graphics, no need to scan them yourselves.

[Fly4Business]

The plotting charts are available as pdf, vector graphics, no need to scan them yourselves.

Where?

ten characters ... ... ... ... ...

[safelife]

Ten characters? Sorry I can't phrase it that compact.

[Fly4Business]

The "ten characters" was only to fulfill the minimum 10 characters for posting ...