Reported Jetstar Tailstike at YMML

[log0008]

Herald Sun Reporting
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating the tail strike involving an Airbus A320 on route to Hobart on Wednesday, which it described as a “serious incident”.

During takeoff from runway 27, the aircraft’s tail struck the runway at 2.49pm.

After becoming airborne, the crew decided to return to Melbourne.

“Our engineers did an inspection and found that the underside of the aircraft’s tail had lightly scraped the runway on take-off.


“There was no structural damage to the aircraft and it will be cleared to return to service on Friday.”

[wheels_down]

Taf ymml 110509z 1106/1212 32016g26kt 9999 sct035 bkn045 fm111200
29014kt 9999 -shra bkn030 fm112300 32016g26kt 9999 sct040
bkn050 fm120800 32014kt 9999 bkn045=

metar ymml 110500z 33011kt 9999 few030 bkn045 bkn180 16/07
q1010 fm0500 mod/sev turb blw 5000ft=

[Ski Guru]

OK, incident thread....my moment to shine....let me just get the metar up to show how...f@$k.

[Metro man]

Weather information is often relevant when incidents are being discussed.

[bpmsmith]

If this was JQ 711 (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JST711/history/20160511/0430Z/YMML/YMHB), the flight reached 22,700' before diverting.

[Capn Bloggs]

Capslock on the blink there, Wheels Down?

[log0008]

If this was JQ 711 (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/JST711/history/20160511/0430Z/YMML/YMHB), the flight reached 22,700' before diverting.
Yep JQ 711 operated by VH-VGF - in the#jetstargeneration liberty, according to flightradar24 hasn't flow since

Replay here https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-vgf#9acf45a

[Squawk7700]

I heard second hand it was the FO's first day on the job! (So to speak)

[propaganda]

These things happen - if it was the F/Os first day he/ she will hopefully get over this incident quickly and move on.

[Di_Vosh]

Also reported in the AVherald

AVherald.com

DIVOSH!

[PoppaJo]

These things happen - if it was the F/Os first day he/ she will hopefully get over this incident quickly and move on.
Slap on the wrist and sweep it under the carpet....great safety culture.

This doesn't say much for CASA. Tiger rightfully grounded over safety breaches, yet here we have a carrier with numerous continued breaches over the years? Nothing has been done, which further proves the Tiger grounding was nothing more than a stab at a foreign operator...

This raises a lot of questions.

[propaganda]

What about a just culture. Of course a safety culture is of paramount importance, it goes without saying. Who is suggesting sweeping this incident under the carpet ?.

[turbantime]

Incident reported by the crew and in turn reported to atsb as is the norm. What's wrong with that?

Some of you people love jumping at shadows

[The Green Goblin]

PoppaJo,

You're speaking garbage. Tiger had no systems in place and no real oversight. Jetstar is a completely different beast, it has a very similar rate of occurance to Qantas. One of the best in the business.

Things like this happen. Jetstar have the training and systems in place to manage it. I'd imagine in a cyclic shortly, there will be a tail strike incident thrown in.

To put it another way, imagine if this happened, the aircraft was inspected and returned to service. Two days later after flying the line it was discovered that there was major damage to the fuselage.

This is exactly what has/is happening over the fence at the competition.

[Lookleft]

This raises a lot of questions.

What questions does it raise?

This sort of incident is not unique to Jetstar. In fact its surprising that it hasn't happened before on the 321 as they are more prone to a tailstrike than a 320.

[wheels_down]

Why Jetstar's latest incident should alarm flyers
Jetstar’s tail strike incident at Melbourne Airport this week puts another red flag over the Qantas subsidiary’s operations and the unwillingness to date of the supposed safety regulator CASA to ground or restrict its flights.

However the ATSB appears to have fast tracked its inquiry into an incident that imperiled the lives of those on the 180 seat passenger jet bound for Hobart, indicating a final report will be provided by this November.

Under previous direction the ATSB has botched and now delayed its attempts at a PelAir crash inquiry (2009) and proven incapable to date of dealing with an astonishing situation where Qantas and Virgin Australia 737s were forced to land in blinding fog with low fuel at Mildura in 2013, and an appalling screw up that caused serious undetected structural damage to a Virgin ATR turboprop in regional service in NSW in 2014.

The ATSB has abundant reasons from the recent operational history of Jetstar for its speedy reaction.

In October last year another Jetstar single aisle Airbus, this time a 215-220 seat A321 was dispatched from Melbourne Airport in such an unsafe loading balance condition for a flight to Perth that it struggled to become airborne.

The same month Jetstar dispatched an A32o from Brisbane for Melbourne a Jetstar A32o left Brisbane for Melbourne with 16 more passengers on board than advised, meaning the aircraft was about 1,328 kg heavier than the take-off weight used to calculate the take-off and landing data for the flight.

These two October 2015 incidents perforce demonstrated that Jetstar, an Australian licensed subsidiary of Qantas, had lost on two occasions the absolutely essential prerequisite of safe operations of knowing how jets were loaded and that the distribution of passenger numbers and below floor baggage or freight was within the approved safe limits that are found in the flight manuals of all jet airliners.

These incidents raised questions of safety culture in Jetstar that have not yet been answered by an ATSB inquiry, nor addressed by CASA, the gutless safety regulator that conducted a grandiose grounding of Singapore owned Tiger Airways in 2011 after it infringed safe minimum altitude requirements over the Leopold estate near Geelong during a night time go-around at Avalon Airport.

CASA was justified in grounding Tiger, but was it justified in treating Jetstar with comparative indifference over a series of equally disturbing incidents at Melbourne, Cairns and Singapore Airports in earlier years?

The response of CASA to persistently unsafe practices or attitudes by Tiger was to first ground the carrier, and then restrict the number of sectors it could fly each day until it acquired a safety culture and a respect for the regulations.

The safety culture of Jetstar ought to be in the dock of public opinion over the October 2015 incidents, and as the ATSB says in its notification of an investigation, the loading data for last Wednesday’s flight will be part of that inquiry.

Why Jetstar's latest incident should alarm flyers - Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/05/14/jetstars-latest-serious-incident-alarm-flyers/)

[The Green Goblin]

Ben Sandilands really doesn't like Jetstar does he?

[Lookleft]

Ben Sandilands as always is showing his unabashed bias against Jetstar which he has been going on about since 2006. He is not going to be happy until CASA grounds Jetstar and Qantas shuts it down. His complete misunderstanding of the Tiger grounding puts him in the same category as GT in terms of quality aviation journalism.

Just for info Ben, weight and balance issues have been addressed by CASA and Jetstar with the loading process now firmly in the hands of the flight crew. I would also put forward the suggestion that the reason JANZ has a new CEO is because of the two incidents. So far from nothing being done, plenty has been done and changes are still ongoing. BTW when you stop foaming at the mouth about Jetstar you might want to spend some time researching how Qantas has also had W&B incidents and that was with a centalised load control.

[Capt Fathom]

I heard second hand it was the FO's first day on the job! (So to speak)
XXX. There is no doubt you are an Ambulance Chaser!

[Kiwiconehead]

What about a just culture.

Just hang 'em?

[Capn Bloggs]

Ambulance Chaser
Please explain? :confused:

[haughtney1]

Here you go Bloggsy :-)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHdEOFM4oQU

[cessnapete]

As an observer from afar i'm amazed at the penalty culture that seems to exist in Aus aviation.
As a training Capt., in my airline if this simple incident occurred,( especially with a new crew member) first, check the pilots training record.
Remedial Sim if required and then a few handling sectors under supervision.
A simple handling error, and considering the number of sectors flown by Jetstar not a problem.
Unless of course the bash the LoCo, denigrate the pilots culture that also seems to exist from QF pilots etc.
In UK for example Ryanair/EasyJet crews are held to the same safety/training standards as the Majors, BA/Virgin etc. and not held as some sort of low life!!

[FlareHighLandLong]

I agree

I used to enjoy reading Ben Sandilands, more recently feeling pretty unimpressed.

Yes it's good to have independent reporting from people who care about our industry, however the tendency towards the dramatic over statements 'appalling' etc etc. does not help build an environment where we support each other towards improvement in the industry.

Yes it's appropriate to investigate incidents big and small. Yes it's appropriate to compel improvements where necessary. Yes it's necessary to provide training if required. Yes it's appropriate to hold organisations or individuals accountable if there is blatant incompetence or violations.

No it's not useful or constructive to tee off at people or organisations in an unconstructive way and without all the facts. This kind of reporting has a negative affect on the safety culture of our industry.

Rant over.

[Capn Bloggs]

Here you go Bloggsy :-)

Got it. An unusually clever post from Fathom... :}

[framer]

Someone had a tail strike in gusty conditions while new to the aircraft ( apparently).
If this was the third one in a year then sure, get excited, start asking what the regulator is doing, but one? Basically the regulator needs to be assured that the airline is taking advantage of any learning opportunities and is ensuring that training and re training is up to scratch. That's it. No different to when QF dragged a tail a while back and changed their procedures as a result.

[oicur12.again]

Interested to know what exactly happened, A320’s are not easy to tail strike. The wind was a bit how’s your father but not really that bad.

It sounds like a V speed calculation error or GW error made by the crew??? Such an oversight is not a single crewmembers fault.

In which case simple “remedial sim” and “handling sectors” will probably not solve the problem.

[Pakehaboy]

I suggest some of you read the NTSB report regarding USAirways Flight 1702.Tail strikes across the board are not as uncommon as you think,not hard to do a google search and take your pick.But this accident you just cannot makeup,rejecting the takeoff at approx 50ft takes the cake.This accident has something for everyone.

Some tail strikes are justifiable!! Really?.Just had had a mate of mine go through one,on very short Final they get a "wind shear" alert,proceed with the windshear go-around profile,in full go around mode,Toga,pitch etc and still get the tail strike,those with a clue will see how this happens.Anytime I hear of a tail strike,rather than jump to conclusion,I rather dig deeper and find the cause(s)

[The Green Goblin]

Pakeha boy, for precisely that reason in a baulked landing, you use TOGA ten. You could strike the tail if you don't.

Thence once the aircraft is climbing safely, pitch to the flight director and retract the wheels.

[Madame Bandit]

For those that want to mouth off about how "ill informed" Sandilands is, then state your facts where this is so.

Not one thing he states is incorrect about the vial orange operation and CASA's/ATSB lack of action. Otherwise the parasites would have him bent over the fence outside a Court house.

In fact, why don't we start another thread and those that overwork there at the orange cancer can state the FACTS of what occurs on a daily basis. Then we would all see whether Sandilands "has all the facts and whether he is bias or not". Now wouldn't that be an interesting read.

Yes my word, a very interesting read indeed. :ugh: :rolleyes:

[Pakehaboy]

... And so Green Goblin,your point is?
He got a wind-shear alert ,performed the windshear procedure,and still got a tail strike,enlighten me

Like you I'm sure,we've practiced these "escape " maneuvers many times,I know and understand the procedures,never had a actual.Im glad "your" procedure is the same as mine,thanks for that

[bdcer]

Madame Bandit,

Do you even work at Jetstar? How can you make these assertions about day to day operations? You are sounding as sensationalist as Ben Sandilands has become. I guess that's how you've got to get attention these days with so many journalists out there.

The Qantas tail strike incident QF842 (Avherald : Report: Qantas B738 at Sydney on Aug 1st 2014, data input errors result in tail scrape (http://avherald.com/h?article=48f6d32b&opt=0) ) could be quite similar, except that they continued on to DRW, but I don't seem to remember Ben Sandilands getting all excited about that one.

The Qantas loading incident A330 VH-QPJ (ATSB : https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2015/aair/ao-2015-088/ ) lead to the aircraft taking off approx 2000kg over MTOW, but again Ben Sanidalnds didn't get too excited.

I'm not having a go at Qantas, I think it's an excellent airline, but all airlines get their share of incidents. Having journalists stir their readers into a frenzy about certain airlines is irresponsible. Shouldn't they just report the facts without all the hype.


By the way MB, I think you meant "vile" not "vial", & "biased" not "bias".

[Lookleft]

the gutless safety regulator that conducted a grandiose grounding of Singapore owned Tiger Airways in 2011 after it infringed safe minimum altitude requirements over the Leopold estate near Geelong during a night time go-around at Avalon Airport.

Incorrect, Tiger grounded because it had no Australian based infrastructure to deal with continuing problems.

unwillingness to date of the supposed safety regulator CASA to ground or restrict its flights.

Incorrect, CASA has put restrictions on all domestic flights regarding loading of pax.

As I said before MB Ben Sandilands needs to better understand the reason for the Tiger grounding before he mouths off. You seem to have the same hysterical bias against Jetstar that Sandilands does.

[AEROMEDIC]

By the way MB, I think you meant "vile" not "vial", & "biased" not "bias".

Spell checker inop perhaps?

[Stanwell]

And, bdcer, I think you meant 'led' rather than 'lead'.
Mis-positioned lead can lead to all sorts of problems. :E

[bdcer]

D'oh!
That'll teach me for being a smart a%^$

[The Green Goblin]

The Qantas guys live for paying out on Jetstar.

Ultimately there's probably more experience and more world exposure in the Jetstar training department than the Qantas one.

Qantas is a bit like an aero club. They only know the Qantas way.

The Jetstar training captains are ex just about every operator. Particularly the Ansett guys who had to make a buck before coming home.

[Madame Bandit]

bdcr

The photos of tech logs, MEL's, crewing schedules, screen shots of ....well....let's just say "rostering" practices etc etc etc that is sent to me on a weekly basis is frightening enough. The concerns expressed during skype conversations makes for many a hair stand on end for hours.

Not to mention the upheaval in flight ops which continues to this very day. And yet, it just keeps on tickin. What a mighty regulator.

Thanks for the spell correction sweetie. It was typed shortly after I was sent stuff on the recent Ballina "incident". Scary read. Oh that's right, sssshhhh mum's the word. :p

[megan]

Madame Bandit, you trying to fly under the radar, the text is so minute as to be virtually unreadable. For this old bugger anyway.

[BuzzBox]

Madame, I don't suppose you're 'related' to Ben Sandilands by any chance?

[Madame Bandit]

Geee Buz, now there's an idea.

Me thinks Ben has got very close sources of info. The daily floggings, abuse and threats have taken a toll on the crew. They have had enough.

A senate inquiry into a particular company which intentionaly climaxed into nothing but a complete farce even when faced with the facts of unsafe, dangerous and corrupt practices says it all. It even left an independant Senator shaking his head on how it all suddenly went pear shaped with a favourable outcome for the guilty.

And to think Tony Fitzgerald had his hands full with corruption in the Queensland Police. At least a few including the commissioner ended up in jail.

Anyway, what was the thread about again?? :{

[bdcer]

Well I never saw any "..daily floggings, abuse & threats..". No, I'm not a manager, I'm a line driver. I've worked at both Qantas & Jetstar (although I've now gone back to Q) & I found Jetstar a great place to work. Admittedly the pay/conditions weren't as rosy as at Q, but it's a LCC, what do you expect? There were a few 'personalities' in management that weren't popular, but never was I encouraged/forced/etc to do the wrong thing. Most of the senior crews had a wealth of experience from many varied carriers, & I found the training excellent. Maybe I was lucky to be based outside of MEL/SYD?

[ratpoison]

Madame,

Shock and unexpeded public exposure is the best defence to clean out garbage.
I too have been forwarded the site for perusal. Brilliant stuff and lawyers both sides will have a field day. Maybe best to delete reference to it's construction. Turds are best stepped on without giving them a heads up.

Rat

[Ollie Onion]

I am sorry MB but you don't know what the hell you are on about. I have always found Jetstar to be a pleasant place to work and there are certainly NOT daily floggings and threats from Management. The fact that all of these incidents are public knowledge shows that Jetstar have a very healthy and fully working safety management system that leads to open reporting, that is what Tiger did not have. CASA is not concerned with individual incidents (that is the ATSB), they are concerned with the process in which these are handled. The new management structure has gone a long way to addressing past persecution culture exhibited by some former managers. I wonder whether Ben's close source is not infact one of these former disgruntled managers who were quite rightly shifted on.

Why does Jetstars existence bother you so much? You and Ben seem to have a very bitter streak when it comes to Jetstar. I am genuinely interested in the source of your hatred as it seems to be all consuming!

I am also sure that for all the thousands of people who are employed by Jetstar can I just thank you and Ben for wishing the company I work for such misfortune without any second thought as to the havoc it would cause personally if trolls like you got your wish and had Jetstar shutdown based on the ranting a of internet trolls and bitter people.

[joblogs1]

Just a question? Is it acceptable after a tail strike on takeoff to report a possible bird strike, probably to encourage a runway inspection without telling atc
About the tail strike..?

[Ollie Onion]

I have no idea if that is what happened but my thoughts are:

Were there birds?
Did the crew suspect a bird strike?
Did the crew suspect a tail-strike?

I would suggest that as this was not an immediate return maybe he crew had no idea about the tail-strike. Maybe they found out a bit later via a passenger or witness report?

As I said above, the elements of the actual incident don't concern CASA, what is important in their mind is that:

- The event is reported to the company. (Shows an open reporting culture)
- Once received, the report is escalated and mandatory reporting requirements are met such as the ATSB, CASA won't be involved at this stage.
- An investigation is carried out either internally or externally (or both) so that root causes are identified and can be remedied via new procedures or crew training.

Picking apart the crew actions in detail without all of the information is both unhelpful and unprofessional. Just wait for the report.

[Madame Bandit]

Well Ollie, I'm afraid you're wrong. You seem to have an issue with reading something and comprehending the content.

No they don't have a healthy safety system at all. But no doubt the 40 odd folk I know there, are obviously wrong and you are right.

The new management structure has gone a long way to addressing past persecution culture exhibited by some former managers.
Incorrect again Ollie, in fact I believe it has got worse. The "former" managers are still there ol mate. Particular MFO's and FDM's come to mind. Why are they still there Ollie?

Why does Jetstars existence bother you so much?
It doesn't sweetie. I have some very good and close friends there. Many have an issue with existent management. Again, read and comprehend my previous post.

I just thank you and Ben for wishing the company I work for such misfortune without any second thought as to the havoc it would cause personally
Such a statement is completely absurd and ludicrous. Nothing was alluded to in regards to wanting professionals losing their jobs or a company being closed down. Maybe a few weeks off and a long chat with a discreet colleague may assist. The 4 sector days with 25min turn arounds, no support, no tools to do your job efficiently and back of the clock to daytime and return to back of the clock appears to be taking it’s toll.

Oh and in closing Ollie, if all is so well in paradise, can you please explain why 17 new cadets have applied to ANZ. Can you explain why 2 middle east carriers in the last 8 months have received a total of 38 applications from a certain low cost carrier. The mob that I’m with in Europe have recently received 11 from B787 drivers. Alas, 9 of them have not got a JAR licence, so no go unfortunately.

Now that Ollie to me adds up to 66 drivers looking elsewhere in less than 10 months. Oh yes of cause Ollie, that’s just normal “attrition” rates. :ugh::ugh:
I'm glad you're happy in paradise ol chap.

Now, as I said. What's the thread about again?:cool:

[The Green Goblin]

25 min turns haven't been done for at least two years that I know of....

Madam, sounds like you are a clown. There's a new suit waiting for you in Qantas, complete with a hat. There's plenty of mirrors too.

[Lookleft]

And to think Tony Fitzgerald had his hands full with corruption in the Queensland Police. At least a few including the commissioner ended up in jail.

If you're making references to the Fitzgerald enquiry then you must be stuck in some cultural time-warp from 1989 (why is that date significant)! Big deal that you know 40 people in Jetstar so do I, so does Ollie so does Green Goblin. I also know people in Virgin and in Qantas. All have their own issues and managers they don't think a lot of.

If there are lots of people leaving Jetstar that's fantastic because John Gissing once said that the only way the money improves is when people start leaving. Looks like the pilots that are left will soon be getting a pay rise.

[Pakehaboy]

This is absolutely awesome,better than discussing tail strikes anyday.For those of us that are on the "outside" looking "inside",then the grass is not greener on the other side at all!!!

[Madame Bandit]

Ouch Goblin…….Meow, scratch scratch. Typical management type response with anger. Best way to look inadequate when faced with facts is start name calling. You have done very well.

Oh, you also need to get over your QF issues honey. I believe most at QF are very proud of their new uniform. To state an inference that they are clowns constantly looking in mirrors is very unbecoming.

However, the aroma of fear from yourself and other ingratiating supporters that a time of reckoning and it’s consequences is just around the corner, permeates the room.

For Smash and Looky
“Any system that values profit over human life is a very dangerous one indeed. Simply put, it lacks values, and such a system will eventually collapse once its true light is discovered by the masses. Though some say that capitalism is a modern system, corruption has been the source for the demise of every great civilization.”
― Suzy Kassem

[hoopdreams]

Actually I hear the rate of tail strikes on A320 is much higher than the 321. Particularly as A320 operators mostly use Conf 1 for take off, as opposed to Conf 2 generally used on te 321.

[Cafe City]

I may have missed some corrections along the way but based on the first few posts (R27 and TAF), an FO on their first line flight doing the takeoff with up to 25kts across?? Interesting to know what the actual wind was on takeoff. (Please don't quote the METAR)

[Pakehaboy]

Cafe city ,I'm with you on that(if that's the case).I been in this very situation with new,low time,low experience,F/O,s on the Airbus.Some of the carriers have had SOPs in place(must be less than 15kts/x/wind)others it has been at Captains discretion.Those of us that fly the bus are fully aware of the landing x/wind dilemmas,associated with control,pitch limitations(the automated bus call out for pitch)etc,the same goes for the take off.Airbus in its FCOM procedures stipulate the technique(s)to be used,but as with anything associated with airplanes(tail draggers,floats etc) one must learn and feel the techniques.Some are easier to Cock up than others.

As to which A/C has the most tail strikes,I don't have the numbers,but would agree I've seen more 321,s take the bullet,than 320,s,( never had issues on the A330)and the reasons are kind of obvious,very easy to get the "pitch pitch" call on the 321 on landing especially in gusty conditions.When these aircraft are light for takeoff(and maybe this one was) green dot is low,pitch rotation on the bus cann be very quick,and the ability to over- rotate is easy,hence, a heavy weight takeoff, green dot, 235+,she becomes a bit of a pig to get off the runway.Needless to say,someone with limited experience can easily kiss terra ferma.Feel bad for the bloke,this type of incident happens very quickly,none of us are immune.

MB....not really interested in the spat your dealing with,actually fun to read,....but will you call me "honey",I feel kinda left out

[The Green Goblin]

Hoop dreams, to get anywhere need the 11 degrees required for a strike with the oleos compressed, you're working pretty hard.

That would look rather scary. She's pretty spritely to leap into the air if you pull back aggressively on the stick. Tail strikes are almost a non issue in the 320 and something I personally would never give a second thought too. The 321 it's always in the back of your mind.

Madam bandit, there are no facts. You're just pissing into the wind and wondering why you're shoes are wet. It's embarassing.

[Pakehaboy]

QuoteGG. "The 321 it's always in the back of your mind. "

Yeah mate,it is,.Its become that apparent ,that they now placard it(in some airlines),that in itself has to tell you something ....no?

[Keg]

Goblin, most of the time you do a great job but every now and then you allow that chip on your shoulder to show its colours. It detracts from your otherwise good contributions. := :sad:

[Ollie Onion]

Madame Bandit,

You say you have a group of 40 sources inside the airline who forward you photo's of tech logs, MEL's etc..... WHY? Would your sources not be better to send this sort of stuff or concerns to the regulator. I would ask again, what is your interest in it, I for one don't give a toss what goes on in my mates airlines and certainly wouldn't think it appropriate to receive that sort of information.

You seem to have detailed info on applications made to other airlines and you assume that this equates to 66 individuals who want to leave, how do you know it is not 15 pilots who have applied to all three with a few other chucked in. Do you seriously need an explanation as to why a young cadet with a couple of thousand Airbus hours would jump at the chance to leave a LCC not only work for their National airline and enter as a Direct Entry A320 FO.

I think the advise you need to give you sources is that they need to put in applications elsewhere as they are clearly not happy at Jetstar, they could do everyone a favour and go elsewhere. I spent over a decade flying in the Northern Hemisphere for a Legacy carrier and can honestly say that as with all airlines Jetstar has its issues but they are more than acceptable in order for me to have a job at home, not once have I ever felt threatened as you say Jetstar pilots are, maybe I have been lucky, maybe you are talking s$&t who would know.

Also, if you keep calling me sweetie or honey I am going to feel like I need to buy you a drink or something. :-)

[Pakehaboy]

Goblin, most of the time you do a great job but every now and then you allow that chip on your shoulder to show its colours. It detracts from your otherwise good contributions. := :sad:
Oh keg,it's not that bad,somewhat warranted on his part.Ive done some digging and calling mates just to get the vibe..Everyone entitled to a dig.MB has drawn a line in the sand,pissed a few people off,and certainly many views on this subject.I would hope their is some middle ground,but I think not.....

Mgt loves to f@rk with pilots ,because pilots,in general, are emotional,emotional about most things,and emotions have no place in bargaining ....I personally learned that many years ago as a union rep...

[dream747]

Some Australian news quoted an aviation expert - Ben Sandilands.

Jetstar safety culture and record a concern: expert | The New Daily (http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2016/05/16/jetstar-safety-accidents/)


Since when is he an aviation expert? With all due respect to Ben, doesn't he just writes about aviation but making it sound like he knows how to run Qantas, thinks Virgin is always right and Qantas or Jetstar is always wrong, and knows how to run the country's safety regulator CASA, all from his keyboard.

[CurtainTwitcher]

Since when is he an aviation expert?

Controversial? Good cop, bad cop? The more yelling & screaming in cyberspace he can elicit, the better.

Eyeballs, its all about eyeball$, re-tweets, sharing & ultimately page views & ad click-through's. MH370 isn't the cash cow it once was. Must have controversy.

[The Green Goblin]

Keg, you know me. I call it how I see it and I don't suffer fools. The madam is certainly acting like one. All of the 'facts' he has presented are just stuff that happens in an airline. They happen in Qantas, they happen to the competition. We have such a good level of safety and reporting in this country that the trivial things become blown out of proportion.

Australia in general is a very safe place to fly and the skills and equipment are all mostly top notch.

As for clowns and hats, there's a pretty large thread going on elsewhere regarding what most think of the new uniform. I'd imagine bandit boy will feel pretty good wearing it.

[Capt Fathom]

The Qantas guys live for paying out on Jetstar.
I suspect the Qantas guys are not that bored!

[The Green Goblin]

Or what iron bar?

[Iron Bar]

Or continue to embarrass yourself. Up to you.

[The Green Goblin]

Fortunately, as iron bar never has anything worthwhile to contribute, there is an ignore list.

I'd suggest you do the same.

[Keg]

Goblin, I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't take a swipe at Madame Bandit. I'm suggesting that you shouldn't take a swipe at QF drivers as you did a couple of pages back. I'm not convinced there are many/ any QF drivers taking pot shots at JQ in this thread.

[Iron Bar]

Oh Gob, amateurish and juvenile as usual, ignore away lightweight. There's not much worth contributing to PPrune anymore, engaging with you and your ilk is dull and achieves nothing. By all means continue to call it how you see it, point the finger at Q pilots and giggle about uniforms.

Oh and to the topic, **** happens, there will be a investigation and the three pilots involved will move on. So should everyone else.

[Madame Bandit]

Ollie

Would your sources not be better to send this sort of stuff or concerns to the regulator.
Oh ti’s a good day for a jolly good laugh. The “regulator”……….surely you can’t be serious?
When the “regulator” proves themselves to be good compliant girls and boys, they then get a $250K plus plus plus job at the particular operator.
Also, if you keep calling me sweetie or honey I am going to feel like I need to buy you a drink or something.
Prrrrrr, now you're talking. :p

Goblin
he has
bandit boy
Yet again jumping to assumptions and conclusions. The way things are going in a sick world Goblin, you and I might share the same toilet very soon.

Now Goblin …… actually is it ok to call you “The Gobler”? Being called “bandit boy” brings that name to thought. Meeoooww!

All of the 'facts' he has presented are just stuff that happens in an airline.
Rubbish. Typical state of denial and deflection when confronted.
It’s not appropriate on the Prune to start listing the “stuff that happens in an airline” of a certain operator. Be rest assured Gobler, you and your “management” spongers don’t want that to occur. We’ll let nature take it’s own path of exposing the weak and inept.

I'm complexed as to the reason you keep mentioning me getting dressed up in the new QF uniform. You're quite a kinky Gobler at times!

I'm off to bed now Gobler. I'll be thinking of ya. :rolleyes:

[oicur12.again]

So, anyway. Back to the thread topic maybe?

"I suggest some of you read the NTSB report regarding USAirways Flight 1702.Tail strikes across the board are not as uncommon as you think"

The USAir 320 only hit the tail because it fell bum first out of the sky in the same way that AF447 could therefore be considered a tail strike.

A320 tail strikes on takeoff are very rare and it would require a reasonably abusive takeoff technique to hit the tail.

So anymore insight into what may have happened? Incorrect GW used? Do JQ 320's give a master caution for flap/mcdu disagree? How does JQ calculate takeoff data? Aerodata, Octopus, ACARS RTOW, SMS RTOW, rule of thumb?

[Squawk7700]

I heard second hand it was the FO's first day on the job! (So to speak)
XXX. There is no doubt you are an Ambulance Chaser!

Last edited by Capt Fathom; 14th May 2016 at 04:17.

Veritas vos liberabit

Truth shall set you free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veritas_vos_liberabit


I am aware that you are aware of my previous username. It was not my decision to change usernames as a form of hiding my identity - it was a permissions error that the Australian pprune moderators were unable to resolve.