Ten ways to tell you might be sitting next to an economist

[PAX_Britannica]

From The Economist (naturally): Airline safety: Ten ways to tell you might be sitting next to an economist | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/05/airline-safety)

The linked Washington Post article has a good account. I don't think it was linked on the Rumours and News thread. WP link repeated:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/05/07/ivy-league-economist-interrogated-for-doing-math-on-american-airlines-flight/

[Hotel Tango]

I don't care who I'm sitting next to, as long as they shut up and leave me alone!

......and don't smell!

[fujii]

And don't spill over into my seat.

[Phileas Fogg]

Then I'm an economist!

I'm a hotelier, all these idiots that enquire if the room rate includes a free breakfast ... What part of "There is no such thing as a free breakfast do you have difficulty understanding?".

If I'm in a sporting mood I'll reply the room rate is 10 quid room only or 20 quid including a free breakfast :)

[PAXboy]

There is only Inclusive. It might be advertised as 'free' but it has been included in the price calculation.

[Capot]

If I'm in a sporting mood I'll reply the room rate is 10 quid room only or 20 quid including a free breakfast Hmmm.....not a 5-Star hotel, then?

[Hotel Tango]

Not even a fleapit! :)

[Phileas Fogg]

Hmmm.....not a 5-Star hotel, then?

Not even a fleapit!

All based on the market economy and supply and demand ... The 'quid' isn't even the currency here in Philippines, I quoted it to try to keep things simple ... it seems I failed!

So if an airline were to offer a seat for 10 or 20 quid you wouldn't touch it with a bargepole then?

[Hotel Tango]

No, I got your point. Was just pulling your leg ;)

[Asterea]

All based on the market economy and supply and demand ... The 'quid' isn't even the currency here in Philippines, I quoted it to try to keep things simple ... it seems I failed!

So if an airline were to offer a seat for 10 or 20 quid you wouldn't touch it with a bargepole then?

No I wouldn't. It would either mean it was Ryanair - or corners have been cut somewhere -

[Capot]

Phileas Sorry, I was just pulling your leg, too.

So if an airline were to offer a seat for 10 or 20 quid you wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole then?

No I wouldn't.

Nor would I; I spend my life explaining to people that the two areas where savings can always be found by a management determined to find them in an airline are maintenance and customer service, and how they might think about that as they board with a £20 ticket. So to achieve a higher market share by selling cheap the hapless Department Heads or equivalent are told to cut costs by 10% or face the sack. Most other costs, including aircrew are governed by external factors. But you can always save money by replacing a B1.1 AME with a Cat A fitter and challenging the Regulators if they complain.

Ryanair has been mentioned; let's not forget that this airline achieves a higher average yield on some short-haul routes than many legacy airlines, let alone loco competitors. They also achieve a higher maintenance standard than many; the two things are not un-connected.

They do this only because good maintenance costs a lot less than the consequences of bad maintenance.

But Ryanair can and does screw its suppliers into the ground; a Ryanair contract has killed many a good air transport service company, rather like Tesco has killed many good food producers.

Ryanair's customer service, on the other hand, seems to have achieved the maximum cost-cutting possible by not existing.

[Hotel Tango]

Ryanair's customer service, on the other hand, seems to have achieved the maximum cost-cutting possible by not existing.

:ok: Like it :E

[Phileas Fogg]

I spend my life explaining to people that the two areas where savings can always be found by a management determined to find them in an airline are maintenance and customer service, and how they might think about that as they board with a £20 ticket. So to achieve a higher market share by selling cheap the hapless Department Heads or equivalent are told to cut costs by 10% or face the sack. Most other costs, including aircrew are governed by external factors. But you can always save money by replacing a B1.1 AME with a Cat A fitter and challenging the Regulators if they complain.

I left Europe circa 5 years ago but until that time I was a regular business traveller around Europe and, as best I could, avoiding LoCo's as if they were a plague.

These are just some examples of the fares I achieved:

Swiss: BHX/ZRH/MXP/ZRH/BHX
GBP19.00 + GBP97.40 Taxes/Charges ... GBP4.75 per flight!

Austrian: LHR/VIE/LED/VIE/LHR
GBP39.00 + GBP117.60 Taxes/Charges ... GBP9.75 per flight!

Swiss: BHX/ZRH/FCO/ZRH/BHX
GBP30.00 + GBP102.10 Taxes/Charges ... GBP7.50 per flight!

And the list went on, I was a regular on Lufthansa from/to BHX to such destinations as DUS, ARN, & KBP, KLM BHX from/to AMS, FCO, RIX, KBP,, Air France to/from CDG, Swiss BHX/ZRH/HKG/ZRH/BHX, including everything, worked out to GBP207.80 each way (and I got 4 engines long-haul) and without a LoCo in sight and no question of corners being cut, dodgy maintenance etc.

Where I am now my local airport (IAO), well to call it an airport is being polite, it's little more than a short jungle airstrip but it's typical of a number of airports in this country.

Because of it's existing short length only one local airline has the right type of aircraft (ATR72) that can get in and out and only then on relatively short sectors from/to CEB.

The airline in question is a LoCo, IAO airport has no navigational aids, no airfield lighting (no approach nor runway lights), no fuel, not only do they need to find and navigate the airport the old-fashioned way, by use of eyeballs, but they need to get touchdown pretty much spot on to stop before the end of the runway and they need to achieve this with perhaps a full load of passengers whilst tankering round trip fuel.

Their safety record is pretty good, they all have mishaps from time to time in Philippines particularly during heavy rain, and they don't maintain such a safety record operating in/out of little more than jungle airstrips by cutting corners, the flight I have booked with them this week cost the equivalent of a mere GBP20.72 + GBP9.69 Taxes/Charges!

[PAX_Britannica]

Ryanair's customer service, on the other hand, seems to have achieved the maximum cost-cutting possible by not existing.
I fear you may be making a basic economic mistake: maximum cost-cutting is not the same as zero service (value).

For example Ryanair might offer to allow you to pay to avoid a service of negative value.

"Good morning Sir. Would you like coffee ?"
"No thankyou."
"That'll be $50 Sir."
"Pardon ?"
"For $50 I won't serve coffee. For $51 I will serve coffee. For $zero I pour it over your head."
"Black, no sugar, please."

[lomapaseo]

"Good morning Sir. Would you like coffee ?"
"No thankyou."
"That'll be $50 Sir."
"Pardon ?"
"For $50 I won't serve coffee. For $51 I will serve coffee. For $zero I pour it over your head."
"Black, no sugar, please."

an excellent description of airline bean counting management :ok:

[ExXB]

And don't forget that many of the LCCs pocket the VAT on flights to/from non-EU. i.e. Flights to/from Switzerland.