CESSNA SIDS

[flopter]

Sorry if I'm in the wrong place.. but I have an Aerobat C150 located in Australia with SIDS looming.. My little Aircraft has always been perfectly stored and always Well maintained .. I can't afford to spend thousands on CASA AD's that aren't even legislated to the rest of the world..not happy. Anyone else in this position?

[Horatio Leafblower]

Plenty of people in your position.

You should see some of the SDRs lodged on SIDs from "perfectly stored" "corrosion free" Cessnas.

If it's good, your SIDs won't cost you too much.

If it's bad, your aircraft might be throw-away...

Good luck!

[Pilot DAR]

Hi Flopter, I own a 150M, and have considered the SIDs. They are not mandatory in Canada, but upon review, I find that my normal inspections and work over the years, have covered nearly all of the SID items. To be honest, the SIDs hit the nail on the head, for what I know the weak areas of the 150 to be. I don't feel that a well maintained Cessna is excessively burdened by the SID inspections. It's Cessna's reaction to the issue of aging aircraft, which no one though would ever last this long, and were not designed to. If they had not done this work, it is certain that the FAA would have mandated something which could have been even more burdensome.

[Grogmonster]

Flopter,

Your first misconception is that this SIDs is only a CASA AD in so far as it mandates that you comply with the actual SID's document which comes from the Cessna factory. The SID's document states that for compliance it assumes that all of the Cessna service bulletins and FAA AD's have been complied with before you start the inspection. For most light aircraft maintained in Australia under CASA Schedule 5 this is not the case so you are behind the eight ball already. By complying with the inspection you are actually dragging your aircraft up to speed maintenance wise. Additionally you are raising the level of your own safety to acceptable standards. My advice is pay for an inspection only and then make a decision as to the economic viability of having any defects repaired. You may have a nice clean airframe and get away with it but don't expect to get out of this for under at least $15-$20K.

Groggy

[Fly4Business]

I have seen now quite some "perfectly stored and always well maintained" Cessnas that I do not believe that statement first sight. There are some sweet areas you won't have recognized before and there probably will be an issue somewhere.

If your bird is really well, then the SID inspection is not a big deal - if you don't do it as a celebration event, but add the few things to each standard inspection 50/100/200 where it fits. By this the SID will take several inspections, but the additional costs are in the low 4-digits in sum (our training 152 came back from Czech with a 2500 bill for the SID event and minor work found, adding the labor to the ordinary inspection was not possible due to - we ****** up the schedule and needed it in short term, would have been less). I say, worth the money.

If your SID turns out to be expensive, there are two possibilities. You have been ripped off, or there were serious issues with your aircraft. The first is really bad, so avoid it, but the second could safe your life sometimes.

[Duck Pilot]

Sadly come the deadline some aircraft are going to end up being scrapped. Low time aircraft are the aircraft that are probably going to be the worst impacted, simply because they haven't been under the scrutiny of engineers as much. Aircraft that have been rebuilt recently will probably also get through the program reasonably cheaply.

There is also rumour that Beechcraft are working on a SIDs program for their fleets.

[thorn bird]

Has there been a single recorded case of inflight breakup of
any Cessna high wing aircraft anywhere in the world?

[Squawk7700]

Has there been a single recorded case of inflight breakup of
any Cessna high wing aircraft anywhere in the world?

Absolutely yes... Plenty. But mostly related to VFR into IMC. Can't seem to find any attributed to corrosion.

[Wunwing]

I have been involved with 4 SIDS inspections, all older aircraft. All needed some level of structural repairs but one high wing aircraft was horrifying due to severe corrosion in the wing attach points.

Its clear by the lack of factory corrosion protection, that Cessna never intended the aircraft to fly for 50+ years and certainly didn't build them for that life.

Wunwing

[Duck Pilot]

Most of the Cessna owners I know who have put their aircraft through the program, have had very positive comments to make about the inspection and repairs. Positive in the way that their aircraft is now in a safer airworthy condition than it was before it went through the inspections.

[172R]

Most of the Cessna owners I know who have put their aircraft through the program, have had very positive comments to make about the inspection and repairs. Positive in the way that their aircraft is now in a safer airworthy condition than it was before it went through the inspections.

Our 97 R had some total time and years in service SIDS triggers...which were done over 2 x 100 hourlys... Good thing there was nothing wrong with it.... Only cost about $20K.......

[rutan around]

I really wish you had documented evidence of this.

Or perhaps some owners have patted their LAME's on the back and brought them a slab for a $1000 CASA Schedule 5 Annual over the last couple of decades and now their chickens are home to roost?Given that no aircraft have fallen out of the sky due to this poor maintenance it must mean that for 2 decades the rest of us have been over maintaining and wasting our money.http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

[Band a Lot]

$1,000 for a CASA Schedule 5? When was this?

Smallest Cessna with paper work is + 22 hours @ your local rate + parts and consumables and environmental costs.

[Wunwing]

The Cessna that I referred to as really bad was at that time a recent US import when we discovered the wing attach problems. Guess the good old boys aren't always so good.

Wunwing

[Fly4Business]

Given that no aircraft have fallen out of the sky due to this poor maintenance it must mean that for 2 decades the rest of us have been over maintaining and wasting our money.
Not really, we just spent the frequent money on continuous maintenance and the once without proper maintenance now may get one 20 years bill ... There have not been many incidents caused by poor maintenance, but from the SIDs I saw I would say, not yet. One example: there are birds out there where the gear U-bolts have no time restriction and I have seen two now, where it would have been only a matter of little time until doing the gras bite on landing.

[Jabawocky]

There is also rumour that Beechcraft are working on a SIDs program for their fleets

It is not rumour, it is fact. I know, and many here would also, a chap who has an office right across the car park from Beech. The Textron folk invited him in for a chat and so the story goes…….. ;)


Wunwing……your post above and your user name :ok::}

[Duck Pilot]

CASA made a very good decision in making it mandatory for all Cessna's to go through the SIDs program, just hope they follow suite with the rest of the older GA fleet if the manufactures implement a program. If they don't, it won't be CASA reducing the GA industry, it will be the old aeroplanes falling out of the sky and killing people.

[Hasherucf]

The defects found aren't like those found on a normal schedule 5. You wouldn't remove tail feathers or wings in a scheduled check.

[Fly4Business]

There is also rumour that Beechcraft are working on a SIDs program for their fleets.
All manufacturers are going to do that as part of the aging aircraft initiative and I guess all the aircraft around with dead vendors will have the biggest problem and the strongest inspection hand cuffs in the end.

[clunckdriver]

I don't know what your regulators are like, but on our 421B in Canada we negotiated some alternate methods of doing the SIDS, they agreed that some of the items, if conducted the way Cessna wanted them done, would in fact cause more problems than it would cure. Our biggest problem is getting parts on time when we do find something amiss.

[Hasherucf]

'a normal Schedule 5'.

We can mince words clearedtoenter but I'm sure you know my meaning. Has your LAME ever removed the tail just to inspect structure on a schedule 5? Without finding any prior defects? I think you have the answer. Plus I can't believe I have to type this explanation.

[Hasherucf]

So clearedtoreenter which model Cessna do you own?

[Hasherucf]

I'm trying to imagine how to access the mounting structure to eddy current the bolt holes! Enlighten me please.

[Perspective]

Probably a 172 then hash, rudder off only unless frozen bearings elsewhere?

[Fly4Business]

I'm trying to imagine how to access the mounting structure to eddy current the bolt holes! Enlighten me please.
Chainsaw? ;-)

[flopter]

...anyone else heard a rumour that the SIDS deadline, on only the 100 series, may be extended by another 2 years?

[aero junkie]

Straight from CASA
The deadline for the completion of private category Cessna 100 series aircraft remains 30 June 2016.

[Eyrie]

Here, sadly we see what's wrong with Australian aviation. If you suspect there might be something wrong with your aircraft, you may at any time have it inspected and rectified, if necessary.
Some here don't want to do that unless FORCED to and then they want everyone else to suffer the same.
Pathetic.

[PLovett]

Nope, not even for SIDS.

Unless it is a recent model then it ain't having a proper SIDS. I have watched 2 of ours being done, both older models, and everything comes off.

[Hasherucf]

Nope, not even for SIDS.

The pen is mightier than the spanner ;-)

[gassed budgie]

There should be an announcement from CAsA before the end of month regards the SID's for the 100 series Cessna's. I'll be more than a little interested to see where they go with this, having a couple of aircraft that require the SID's.

But CAsA being CAsA , they'll probably fcuk things up like most other things that they've touched in recent times. We'll see.

[JandakotJester]

Yes, SIDS is a financial hemorrhoid, and yes it makes gravity and debt stick to your plane for a while, it may dull the pain of Cessna owners to consider this:

when a stock goes ex-dividend, its listed price drops, but every shareholder is effected equally, and no one profits or suffers more than anyone else.

when the price of avgas or landing fees goes up 15%, we all whinge and protest but again, it hits us all equally

when the US $ drops against the Aus $, Australian aircraft owners have all lost a bit of world value on their US made aircraft

Anyhoooo, the point I'm clumsily making is that in say a year, when everyone is either SIDS compliant or their plane is sitting in a kindy playground, Australian Cessnas will be, worth the same as against each other. Also, the market will ensure those planes are more expensive to people entering the market to buy (I sure as hell will be adding the cost of my C210 SIDS to the future sale price, and even if I didn't my bank would do it for me when they repossess it !).

So don't count the SIDS cost as a financial loss on your investment, its an enforced capital gain, even if you don't put a monetary value on having your plane being given a clean bill of structural health. Perhaps you can ponder the value of this peace of mind when next you get hit by a dose of CAT over the wheatbelt on a hot day, or a blast of unwelcome g force when landing at RTI in a howling seabreeze.

Keep the blue stuff on the left flying north from Perth !

[Band a Lot]

"Anyhoooo, the point I'm clumsily making is that in say a year, when everyone is either SIDS compliant or their plane is sitting in a kindy playground, Australian Cessnas will be, worth the same as against each other."


Rubbish SID's aint SID's and AUD($) likes low time imports not local sitters. But then remember it only Cessna and most places repeat all SID,s each 10 years in Australia. (that is minimal $1,000 per year EXTRA in labour).

[ivan ellerbai]

But then remember it only Cessna and most places repeat all SID,s each 10 years in Australia. (that is minimal $1,000 per year EXTRA in labour).

How long before Beechcraft or Piper mandate something similar?

[Band a Lot]

Beech in bed with Cessna so maybe soon, but they have spar life and things.
Piper have been trying to avoid by use of Bulletins, don't think they are keen.

But saw the AWB on J&R wing attach fittings for C400, I have fitted a few of them + 10 years ago as part of SID's.

[aero junkie]

2 year extension

Cessna SIDs extension has strict conditions | Flight Safety Australia (http://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2016/06/cessna-sids-extension-has-strict-conditions/)

[flopter]

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016L01051

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016L01053

Nice one.

[Band a Lot]

Re areo junkie link.

Whats last para list?

"‘The extra two years for SIDs completion will allow Cessna 100 series aircraft owners and maintainers to plan to spread out the work and the costs over a longer period with no unacceptable risks to safety.


‘This initiative by CASA is an example of our commitment to work with the aviation community to get outcomes that balance safety and operational requirements.’


Because they are not strongly related to the structural integrity of the aircraft these SIDs are not compulsory. This includes SIDs relating to landing gear—although landing gear failure could cause a runway accident, analysis of these accidents shows they rarely lead to injuries or deaths. Spar failure is a different case."

[LeadSled]

https://www.casa.gov.au/files/awb-02-048-issue-5-compliance-cessna-supplemental-inspection-documents (http://mailinglist.casa.gov.au/lt.php?id=cRoAUw4DVVEBCB9TBwJFU1IHUA%3D%3D)

https://www.casa.gov.au/airworthiness/standard-page/airworthiness-bulletins (https://www.casa.gov.au/airworthiness/standard-page/airworthiness-bulletins)

Folks,
See above.
Tootle pip!!

[Band a Lot]

Thanks for the helpful links.

Are some SID's now not applicable - as per last week all SID's for Cessna type and S/N needed to be carried out.

My bolded suggest that some now not need be done - is that correct?

I would have read links but yesterday would not open, now still extreme slow net speed.

Useful reply's only thanks guys!