First night landing at NZQN

[On Track]

For the first time Air New Zealand has just landed an A320 at Queenstown at night.

It looked quite cool as it came up the lake on the approach for Rwy 05 in very benign conditions.

It will be interesting to see how popular the night ops are with pax. I understand some of the pilots are less than ecstatic.

[Capn Bloggs]

Provided they (ooops the aeroplane) stay on track, On Track, they needn't worry... :}

[Aeolus2000BC]

Whats the problem -- Night VFR is worse than Day IMC ??????:ugh:

[Cloud Cutter]

Whats the problem -- Night VFR is worse than Day IMC ??????:ugh:
Ah, what now? Interesting statement, but doesn't have much to do with the thread topic, does it?

[Pakehaboy]

Quote.."It will be interesting to see how popular the night ops are with pax. I understand some of the pilots are less than ecstatic."

Enlighten me mate,how so,??.....the pilot perspective,that is

[On Track]

Pakehaboy, that was the message put out by the ALPA last November and widely reported in the NZ media. ALPA had several safety concerns, including the dimensions of the runway.

Since then the runway has been widened from 30m to 45m and new lighting has been installed, but there's no change to the overshoot area, which ALPA said did not conform to international standards.

Some time ago I did ask on another thread why doing an RNP approach at night would be any more hazardous than doing an RNP in daytime IMC. I didn't really get any definitive answer to my question.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

First night flight touches down in Queenstown | Radio New Zealand News (http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/bites/302746/first-night-flight-touches-down-in-queenstown)


Airways night flights video - Queenstown News (http://www.scene.co.nz/airways-night-flights-video/328235a1.page)

[Pakehaboy]

On track,yeah mate I do remember the issue,appreciate that.Would agree that Qtown has its difficulties.The more the 320 goes there,the more comfortable they will get.We do RNP approaches into a few tricky airports,and would agree they do get your attention

[aussie1234]

IMC daytime- not visual, press the buttons and off you go with the autopilot on the whole time.
IMC daytime- get visual, lots of visual cues and can see all of the obsticals.

Get visual at night time and you cant see all of the obstacles plus you have all of the human factor issues of flying at night, depth perception, high low errors etc.

Also depending on your approval, unlike Australia where there are no real obsticals around airports, in QT you may not be lined up with the runway (the remarks at 7000+ feet are within 3 miles of the airport) on the RNP and there's little kicks in the approach below 1000ft to line you up. Add to that the PAPI can't be used beyond 4 miles I think.
Line up with the runway and on slope at 5 miles, you'll go very close to losing your left wing.

So there is a big difference between IMC day and night Visual segment.

The flights will be very popular, unlike some of the "this will be great for australian skiers getting home because anything NZ does is for Australia" mentality, (I've seen it in Australian press) there are many flights that leave Auckland every night up to Asia and the Americas and I'm sure the night Queenstown flights will be timed to meet these.

[underfire]

If they use the RNP procedure, it doesnt matter if it is day or night, fog, or clouds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mxmFCw-Dig

Arent they trying to build up QT as a hub?

[Capn Bloggs]

If they use the RNP procedure, it doesnt matter if it is day or night, fog, or clouds...
Maybe not to the designers; I would much prefer to pop out at 200ft in low vis on any approach in daylight.

[ROH111]

ZQN daytime ops vs night:

During the day, you get just one extra hole in the Swiss cheese.

And that could end up being a big hole.

[Galdom]

I read this thread with interest having done a few PPL single engine night hours and can recall parts of the Night Flying briefing so totally agree with the lack of visual cues comments, my question however is:
Would an operator who is planning these operations not put in place solid SOP's for this destination such as keeping the AP in until a certain point in the approach to mitigate the risks?

[waterbottle]

Galdom - AP has to come out at some stage, and that is the issue. Having to get visual, interpret those clues and land manually. Can be very confusing at night in high terrain. But there is money to be made so everything is ok, don't worry about it etc etc

[Pakehaboy]

Gallon quote
"Would an operator who is planning these operations not put in place solid SOP's for this destination such as keeping the AP in until a certain point in the approach to mitigate the risks"

Well mate,I reckon you just answered your own question,because that's how we do them(as into any destination)

[slamer.]

Air New Zealand's first night flight into Queenstown touches down

9:45 PM Monday May 23, 2016
Air New Zealand has tonight operated its first commercial evening service into Queenstown, kicking off the winter season.

After an extensive approval process involving multiple stakeholders, including Air New Zealand, Queenstown Airport Corporation, Airways New Zealand and the New Zealand Civil Aviation Authority, NZ613 from Auckland arrived in the popular resort town at around 7.20pm.

Air New Zealand's full evening schedule takes effect from 3 July 2016 when the last evening flight will depart Queenstown at 7:30pm and the last arrival will land at 9:35pm.

[XPT]

it appears only JQ will have a departure to OZ late & only to MEL.


Why doesn't JQ fly BNE/ZQN/BNE ?

[cavemanzk]

it appears only JQ will have a departure to OZ late & only to MEL.

This is subject to JQ getting there act together in time, and get the required approvals from the NZCAA. NZ is currently the only airline to be approved, and had to make serval upgrades to there fleet to be able to achieve this e.g. HUD's.


Why doesn't JQ fly BNE/ZQN/BNE ?

JQ focus on Intentional out of OOL, rather than BNE. They do however run ZQN-OOL, they don't even do BNE-AKL.