Tony Windsor could be very powerful

[Dick Smith]

Already some are predicting a hung parliament like in the past.

If Tony is elected , as there is a chance, he could be the key to getting the Aviation reform programme back on track with a concentration on removing every unnecessary cost.

From my experience he has always been very proactive as a supporter of General Aviation.

[wishiwasupthere]

Unless of course he goes against the wishes of his constituents for his own political gain.......again.

[CaptainMidnight]

hung parliament
That's just what the country needs again - not.

[truthinbeer]

Already some are predicting a hung parliament like in the past.

Which was my point in mentioning in another thread that you should run as an independent Dick. I really don't want to see the fiasco that was TW holding the country to ransom as before, and I reckon you would get the votes. Anyway the Libs in your electorate need an alternative now they have installed the left leaning Jason Falinski in place of Bronwyn. You've got a real chance.

[gassed budgie]

Tony Whinger was directly responsible for one of the most miserable periods of Federal governance in recent history. If I saw his aeroplane going down in flames, I don't think I'd piss on it to save him.

[Ovation]

If Tony is elected , as there is a chance, he could be the key to getting the Aviation reform programme back on track with a concentration on removing every unnecessary cost.

Dick I'm sorry but I can't agree with you. Firstly, I think he's got a snowball in hell's chance of getting up after siding with Gillard in 2010 and betraying his electors.

Secondly, if Windsor couldn't and didn't give a rats arse about the disgraceful predicament he created for all of Australia (in concert with that blithering idiot Oakshott), what on earth would make you think he'd lift a finger to extricate GA from the pile of poo we're in now.

I do agree with some commentators suggesting you stand as an independent for the lower house - GA will wither and die without serious political pressure to excise the incompetence of CASA and Airservices.

[PLovett]

Nothing will change the future of aviation in Australia. It isn't an election issue and short of a massive smoking hole in the ground and the whiff of corruption/malfeasance/negligence as a cause it never will be an election issue.

The public has lived with the idea that Australia has the safest skies in the world for so long that nothing that can be said will change that opinion. Thousands of fun seeking overseas bound Australians get on board aircraft that offer the cheapest flight to whatever sun soaked playground they desire without a thought as to how the crew are trained and the aircraft maintained. They don't care so long as their luggage doesn't go someplace else.

To those who castigate Tony Windsor for siding with Labor I bet you have never bothered to read his articles about why he chose the way he did. Nor, I suggest, have you read why he has decided to stand again. Given the way Tony Abbot turned out I suggest he has more clues about politics than most on this forum.

To suggest that CASA and Airservices are incompetent is to misread the situation entirely. They are not. They have been given no policy outline by governments of any persuasion but merely given the vague direction that they are to cause no public embarrassment. This they have done but in the process, and because they have absolutely no understanding of GA, they have put in place legislation that is appropriate for an airline level of service but devastates GA.

I found it very interesting that Barnaby Joyce didn't want the Transport Ministry which is traditionally the Nationals bailiwick. It may have been on another thread on this forum where it was said that he didn't want anything to do with clusterf**ck that was aviation (my phrasing as I can't remember the exact wording). If you want another reason why aviation won't be an election issue, that is as good as it gets.

[Stanwell]

An astute summation, PL.
Thank you. :ok:

[Chronic Snoozer]

Am I right in saying that aviation in Australia lacks vision?

From what I have read, there just does not seem to be an individual or organisation that has the political muscle to get the aviation industry to where it should be. That may seem blindingly obvious but the question is why? Why doesn't the electorate understand aviation better? There certainly don't seem to be any votes in it.

It shouldn't be left to the regulators to set the agenda for aviation in Australia. There has to be a better, coordinated way forward, surely? How do we turn things around so that the needs of the industry drive the actions of the regulators?

[The name is Porter]

I don't think I'd piss on it to save him.

Why not? Pissing on him won't put such a large fire out. So not only would he burn but you get to piss on him as well :ok:

[Lead Balloon]

We'll said PLovett. :ok:

If the lower house were full of independents there'd be a chance of a return to government in the public interest. Alas ...

[Wunwing]

Surely it is obvious that the only way for changes in aviation is a number of independents in both Federal houses. Its an unfortunate fact that in our system once you elect a party in majority into Government, individual members have to follow the party line no matter what they actually think about a particular situation.

This is why Windsor ,Oakshot ,Xenethon etc have been so effective.

Its pretty obvious from the current situation where we all had high hopes for Malcom, that the party machine runs the Country, not individuals, even if they are PM.

Wunwing

[Ovation]

If the lower house were full of independents there'd be a chance of a return to government in the public interest.

Only if they could agree with each other - highly unlikely. They'd need to combine into voting blocs or common interest groups to achieve any result, much the same as the Liberal, Greens or CFMEU (Labor) parties.

[Dick Smith]

Plovett. Very astute and accurate post.

One of the reasons I failed the second time around to do the cost saving reform that was required is that Minister Anderson had no vision or support for reform.

The bureaucracy quickly understood this and followed the elected representative of the people. Recently I asked Mick Toller what happened to the cost saving parts of part 91 that was to be introduced during his tenure. His explanation was that he couldn't get it through the Ministers office . I would believe this.

It's the National Party who are primarily to blame for the state of GA in this country . This doesn't mean that the new minister could be different. We are all hoping so.

In the meantime I still stand by my advice to get out of aviation otherwise you will lose even more.

[Wunwing]

Ovation.
That is exactly what Windsor et al did. Banded together and got things done and they are being criticised for exactly that here. They quickly saw that to go anywhere for the Country that their best bet was Labor, which turned out to be right as we subsequently saw how good Tony was.

I agree with Dick that John Anderson had no vision for aviation. I spent a lot of time in Canberra representing a part of the industry and met John a few times. The situations that we put to him were never acted on that I could see.

Wunwing

[Sunfish]

PLovett sums it up very well. There are no "positive" votes in aviation reform, all the punters care about is Sydney aircraft noise and a second airport. As for GA aviation, its got about the same vote winning potential as prison reform.

What saddens me is the loss of jobs, investment and GDP growth that could come from a revived GA and recreational sector. Things like adventure tourism and suchlike that will never see the light of day thanks to CASA, Nimbys and the greens.

[Flying Binghi]

What exactly did windsor achieve?.....:hmm:

For starters he lined his own pockets...

"...THE sale of Tony Windsor's farm to a coalminer delivered the kingmaking MP a windfall about three times greater than nearby farmers who sold to the company...

...When asked about the differences in the sale prices between his property and those of his neighbours, he said, "I think we should terminate this conversation".
"You listen to me pal, you mind your own business, it's my family's business. If you want to make up some bull**** story, go for your life, I don't care," he said before hanging up..."

Nocookies | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/independent-mp-tony-windsor-in-league-of-his-own-on-farm-sale/story-fn59niix-1225911091227)


And it looks like that windSore clown is taking up with the corruption that is wind power.
What a surprise...:rolleyes:

https://www.gleninnesexaminer.com.au/story/3795632/wind-alliance-welcomes-tony-windsors-run-for-new-england/?cs=420




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[Wunwing]

FB
You have just proved exactly what I have been saying about the impossibility of our Industry getting anywhere politically. We need representatives in Government who are interested in OUR problems and I for one don't care what their political affiliations are or were.

Wunwing

[Ovation]

That is exactly what Windsor et al did. Banded together and got things done and they are being criticised for exactly that here.

Yep, you're spot on correct. The things we got done thanks to Windsor supporting Gillard were the Carbon Tax, School Halls, unmanageable deficit, Wayne Swan, winding back ABCC, rampant Union corruption, the (now repealed) legislation that would have sent owner driver truckies to the wall, Gillian Trigg, continuation of Rudd's self selecting country shoppers etc. The list goes on and on.....

[Horatio Leafblower]

Ahhh yes.

Corruption.

The Libs would have us believe they are genetically immune from such conduct but Arthur Sinodinos seems to prove otherwise.

The fact that the PM's office privatised Syd airport and the PM's Chief of Staff retired from public life to head up Macquarie Airports - that's all lily-white, is it?

How about every leader of the Nats for the last 20 years retiring to become a director of a major Gas or Coal producer? No nepotism or corruption there.

"Rampant Corruption" is across the political spectrum, Ovation, and none of them seem ashamed of it either.

[Band a Lot]

A pre-commitment to corruption, self gain, travel and expenses perks all about impossible to prove, as it is reported suburb to suburb on a study trip using postal allowance 3 years after the event.

Even when shafted in writing, so why not rent some late night entertainment?

[Ovation]

HL,

Good that you've made a point on corruption - they've all got their snouts in the trough. Question marks still hang over Shorten and his political staffer paid for by someone else plus his dodgy deals shortselling the working class, Gillard and her home renovations, Rudd and Rein with their business hitting it big about when he was chief of staff to Wayne Goss, Keating and his piggery, and what about Windsor making a killing selling his property at a price well above the odds.

I'll take it you agree with the other points I made about the carbon tax etc .

The inescapable fact is Windsor is the prime reason we had a second best government in the history of Australia. Windsor's reason for standing this time is because he's bitter and vindictive towards the LNP. He's got poor form - why elect him again?

[topdrop]

but most importantly, - after meetings with Tony Abbott, both Windsor and Oakshott realised Abbott wasn't fit to be Prime Minister - just a pity the Libs didn't get rid of him as leader prior to the last election.

[Flying Binghi]

via topdrop:
importantly, - after meetings with Tony Abbott, both Windsor and Oakshott realised Abbott wasn't fit to be Prime Minister - just a pity the Libs didn't get rid of him as leader prior to the last election.


Thank You for that topdrop, yer'd be good at a Dorothy Dixer..:)

I'd reckon the only thing on the corrupt tony windSore mind when deciding which party to support was which one would allow him to financially profit the most from. Tony Abbott was saying the global warming hysteria were all crap. No money to be made from the global warming scam if it got shut down.

I see windSore is now pushing the corruption that is wind power. Lotsa money to be made there by some...:hmm:

...as for oakShot..:rolleyes:





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[rutan around]

Ovation says rampant Union corruption,Perhaps you could expand on that statement. I'm curious what rampant might mean. Is it almost all unionists in Australia ie about 6.4 % of the population or is it less than 1% of unionists ie 0.064% of the population. Perhaps a better way to explain what you mean is to compare them with banks and which group steals the most money from Australian citizens and which group most needs a Royal Commission to set them on the straight and narrow. I await your answer with interest. ( why did that word come to mind the moment I thought banks)

PS If theft by unions is corruption what is theft by banks?

[truthinbeer]

PS If theft by unions is corruption what is theft by banks?

Grand theft...Grander Theft.

[Sunfish]

As long as Rupert Murdoch owns the lions share of Australian media, the corruption will continue.

[Flying Binghi]

Tony windSore is pushing the wind power scam. Lets see how its doing for Germany...

"...According to a recent analysis, writes Zschäpitz, “Consumers are now paying more for their power than ever before” — some 30.27 euro cents per kilowatt hour. Families today are paying 21% more for electricity than they did 5 years ago.

So what is driving the rapid upward price spiral?

Zschäpitz reports that it’s due mostly to the “Energiewende” – Germany’s push away from nuclear and fossil generated power to renewables such as wind, solar and biogas. Also driving the price are the energy price breaks that are granted to big power consumers, and liability costs for offshore wind parks. Moreover Zschäpitz reports that consumers are also forced to pick up the tab for upgrading the power grid so that it is able to handle the wildly fluctuating power supply from wind and sun..."

In other words, 'green' power is destroying the German economy and impoverishing the people. Although, the bankers and certain select politicians are profiting very nicely..:hmm:

If he gets the chance, that is the tony windSore future for Australia.

Up! Up! And Away! Leading Daily Die Welt Reports: ?Electricity In Germany More Expensive Than Ever? (http://notrickszone.com/2016/04/29/up-up-and-away-leading-daily-die-welt-reports-electricity-in-germany-more-expensive-than-ever/#sthash.hAfA3T87.dpbs)





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[Horatio Leafblower]

Flying Binghi,

Are you a lawyer, AOPA director and Nationals Party member by any chance?

[Hempy]

Thanks Horatio, I needed a giggle :ok:

[Flying Binghi]

via Horatio leafblower:
Flying Binghi,

Are you a lawyer, AOPA director and Nationals Party member by any chance?


Thankyou for that Horatio leafblower..:)

Not a lawyer, nor an AOPA member. I have never been a member of the Lib/Nat partys or any other political party's for that matter. Although, as i've mentioned before on pprune. I was a card carrying member of the Wilderness Society. Thats the political agitator front for bob brown and the unions.





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[Sunfish]

Stuck a Nine kilowatt solar electricity system on the roof. I buy for 38 cents KWH and I sell for 8 cents a KWH. Bill has gone from $1200 per 100 days to $600. As soon as the battery technology is a little more mature, then in one will go. To hell with AGL!

[Flying Binghi]

via Sunfish:
Stuck a Nine kilowatt solar electricity system on the roof. I buy for 38 cents KWH and I sell for 8 cents a KWH. Bill has gone from $1200 per 100 days to $600. As soon as the battery technology is a little more mature, then in one will go. To hell with AGL!

Sunfish, you do realise that mains power would be a hell of a lot cheaper if it wern't subsidising unreliable solar and wind 'power'.

And how many billions of dollars of taxpayer dollars have been wasted so far on solar, wind and sundry other green 'power' scams. Thats billions of dollars added to our escalating national debt. And the only ones that will be paying off the national debt are taxpayers.

And Sunfish, if your not a parasite living of the public purse, thanks to green 'power', that is extra tax that you (and your children if yer got em) will be paying. A lot more then $600 a year I'd imagine..:hmm:

Considering Australia is self sufficiant in coal and uranium and could easily do coal to fuel it is idiotic in the extreme not to use it.





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[rutan around]

And Sunfish, if your not a parasite living of the public purse, thanks to green 'power', that is extra tax that you (and your children if yer got em) will be paying.

Jeez Bing you don't get the the big picture at all do you? First there are the reasons we must stop polluting and then there is the inconvenient truth that if you built a brand new power station today green would be cheaper.

Was your family involved in asbestos mining by any chance?

[Sunfish]

Flying B, nobody is "subsidising" my power consumption. Your logic is akin to alleging my healthcare costs are being subsidised by my refusal to smoke cigarettes and thus pay excise on tobacco.

[Jabawocky]

Just had a random thought while reading a few threads. What is the chance anything aviation will be given even a glimpse of daylight during the election period and for the 3 years that follow?

None.

Excluding QF/VA and the subsidiaries.
How many pilots are there?

How many LAME's?

How many other participants actively engaged in GA Charter/GA PVT-Bus, GA PVT, RAA?

I am on a board of another national association, which has similar displeasure with government (at state levels) and it resembles dealing with aviation groups/CASA rather remarkably. I have a fair idea of the political pull the industry participants have.

If I said that industry only just gets "some traction" today, having effectively wiped out the National Party in the period of 1997-2005, with effectively 10-15 times the participants who have much bigger grievances, what hope do we in GA think we have of having any political pull.

The answer is simple. It is none.

Unless you can be a disruptive force (like uber to taxi's) in the political scene, and hold key but marginal seats to account, then all the ranting, all the public rallies with 20-40 people turning up, will do nothing.

The writing below comes from a very astute political chap, and sure it is reflecting on a separate industry, which has and applied political clout. The fact is the "regulator/s" have just gone about making things worse, despite what the media have been feeding you lately. The same applies for aviation, except that we have 1/15th the numbers.

To quote John Howard in 1996, “If people don’t agree with these measures, they can show their displeasure at the ballot box”.

So, Australians did!

In 1996, all States and Territories had Liberal governments, except NSW (Labor) and Queensland, Nationals. At each subsequent election, those Liberal governments were roundly defeated, with Labor in NSW increasing its majority. The Nationals (Queensland) not only lost government after decades in power, they even lost political party status and were forced to merge with Liberals to become LNP.

Ex-Police Minister Russell Cooper, when interviewed on ABC radio (transcript available) said “Howards gun laws wiped the Nationals out in Qld. We should have fought stronger against them”.

In Victoria, Jeff Kennett went from a healthy majority, to losing power in what was called the “belting from the bush”, as several Independents took seats from Nationals and supported Bracks, to give Labor the government.

In NSW the Liberals were thrown into chaos, with many of their branches actually closing. The sight of then opposition leader Kerry Chikarovski marching side by side with The Greens’ Lee Rhiannon was too much for many Liberal party members and voters to stomach. She was soon replaced as Libs leader, to be followed by a multitude of leaders, none of whom had the courage to criticize Howard for his foolish gun laws. They remained out of office until O’Farrell won government in 2011.

Howard’s federal government actually lost one million votes in the next (1999) election and only just managed to cling to power because of the large majority he held after the 1996 election.

When John Howard was eventually voted out and lost his own seat, the highest office held by a Liberal Party representative, was Campbell Newman, as Lord Mayor of Brisbane!!!

Make of that what you will.

[Stanwell]

rutan,
Perhaps not in asbestos.
I do suspect he may have spent a bit too much time in the hatting industry, though.

[rutan around]

rutan,
Perhaps not in asbestos.
I do suspect he may have spent a bit too much time in the hatting industry, though.
:ok::ok::ok:
Stanwell that may explain a lot.

[rutan around]

Jabba there is a small difference between guns and GA.

85% of people support the gun laws or at least are not against them so it would take a brave gov to change them.

95% of people if told GA was being screwed would ask "WTF is GA?" so pollies feel pretty safe doing nothing. http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

[Flying Binghi]

Where's poster Dick Smith in all this? Perhaps our windSore wind-power backing Mr Smith if afraid to post under his own call sign because he will get a hiding over his lack of knowledge of the global warming issue..:)




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[Jabawocky]

rutan,

As you and I both know…..therein lies the problem.

The next problem is both topics are of a technical and safety related. Very few people understand the subject matter at all, and even fewer are capable of dealing with it at any depth.

The media and the average punter have no clue, and could not care less.

[Flying Binghi]

via Stanwell #37:
Perhaps not in asbestos.
I do suspect he may have spent a bit too much time in the hatting industry, though.

Yet again I'm reminded of all the abuse and insults I received over my 'suggestion' that terrorists will use drones as cheap GPS guided flying bombs. Binghi's buzz bombs I think they were called by some around here..:hmm:

Well, time has gone by and I've been proven right..:)


Nuff beating me own drum, back to the thread...

[Flying Binghi]

via rutan around #34:
Bing you don't get the the big picture at all do you? First there are the reasons we must stop polluting and then there is the inconvenient truth that if you built a brand new power station today green would be cheaper.


The big picture ? rutan around, I did a wind power course at TAFE late last century and have followed wind and solar power ever since. I have also been covering wind and solar power here in pprune for many years.

As for "the reasons we must stop polluting" i'm a bit mystified whats that got to do with wind and solar power. Perhaps rutan around can elaborate ?

rutan around, I'm not sure just what "brand new power station" you are refering to though I am in full agreement that 'green' would be cheaper. You see, the true Greens want us all to live in grass huts and commune with nature - there are no power stations required with that life style..:)





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