should i stay or should i go now?

[DeepSpeed]

im sitting in the left seat with 4000 multi-jet time in a 73 after working for a good airline and getting seniority .

but i could move to the states next year if i want with authority to work etc. should i go? is it worth giving up everything i've worked for here, will it be tough to get into something there in teh states, any ideas folks, any idea?:eek: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

thanks for any kind of response,

...
..

[ernest t bass]

Very little happening in the States right now. Except at the regionals. Most of the larger RJ operators are hiring FOs. Only a few of the major and larger national carriers (FedEx, Southwest, Alaska, JetBlue, AirTran, American Trans Air) are hiring; and most, if not all, of these strongly prefer an inside recommendation.

Also, the larger fractional operators (NetJets, etc) are hiring, but the time from submitting application to interview to class dates are running many, many months. Again, inside recommendations are very helpful.

[DeepSpeed]

Thanks Mr. Earnest,

Here I normally get to go home the same day once I finish my sectors, hows it in the states? I've been told that its 2 weeks out and 2 weeks off then? Is that a fact, or do F/Os have a tougher time of it? Any views out there?

[ernest t bass]

The schedules vary widely from company to company and even within each company. It can range from "day trips" where you are home (at least back to your domicile...whether you choose to live there is up to you) every night....to trips ranging from 2-5 days...to some of the supplemental and international freight carriers where you could be gone for 14-16 days at a time. I would guess the average days off per month would be between 12 and 14, with the range usually from a low of 10-11 to a high of up to 20-21.....but this is just a guess. Obviously the senior crewmemebers would get the most days off (usually...however sometimes some senior people bid for the higher time (pay) lines).

I don't think FOs have a tougher time of it. Usually the lines (rosters) are the same for Captains and FOs. Possibly at some companies, there may be more FOs on reserve, so you have less control over the types of trips you fly...but there is an equal chance that there are more Captain reserve lines. And this could vary from month to month as well. Just depends on the staffing at the time, and the amount of flying to be covered.

[AA SLF]

DeepSpeed -

Just an explanation of some USA "aviation" words. A "domicile" is the "home BASE" you are assigned to by the airline company. This is the airport where you normally start your "trip" sequence. This may have absolutely no relationship to your physical home you live in as well as it may have no relationship to the HQ location of the airline.

For instance, American Airlines has their HQ in Dallas/Ft Worth, Texas (DFW). An AA pilot may have their "domicile" as LAX while they may physically live in Miami (MIA) or New York City (JFK). How an AA pilot gets from their physical home to their domicile is up to that pilot and is on their own time and at their own cost.

Miami is on the east coast of the USA while Los Angeles (LAX) is on the west coast of the USA. A distance perhaps equal to your New Delhi to Madras. The assignment of a domicile by your company usually depends on where the company needs the pilots to be located for the start of the trip sequence and has no bearing on where you live. When you are first hired the company usually "tells you" where your domicile will be. As you gain seniority, and pilots leave the company, then you can "bid" for a new domicile closer to your physical home. Whether you "win" your bid or not is mostly a matter of seniority.

All of the above is for a "mainline" company. The smaller regionals may not have any domiciles away from their HQ base.

[DeepSpeed]

:confused: :confused:

Guys, Someone sent me the below pay rates for Southwest for a first officer.. per hour i believe. Is this the norm for all the majors in the states?

:eek:

SWest
Seat Eff Date Equipment Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 Year 6 Year 7 Year 8 Year 9 Year 10 Year 11 Year 12

CA 01-Sep-01 B-737 124.96 126.49 128.02 129.55 130.98 132.62 134.14 135.67 137.22 138.74 140.27 141.80
CA 01-Sep-02 B-737 128.70 130.28 131.86 133.44 134.91 136.60 138.17 139.74 141.33 142.90 144.48 146.05
CA 01-Sep-03 B-737 132.56 134.19 135.81 137.44 138.96 140.70 142.31 143.94 145.57 147.19 148.81 150.43

FO 01-Sep-01 B-737 37.49 63.24 70.41 77.73 85.14 87.53 88.53 89.54 90.56 91.57 92.58 93.59
FO 01-Sep-02 B-737 38.61 65.14 72.52 80.06 87.69 90.16 91.19 92.23 93.28 94.31 95.35 96.40
FO 01-Sep-03 B-737 39.77 67.09 74.70 82.46 90.32 92.86 93.93 95.00 96.08 97.14 98.21 99.29

[ernest t bass]

Those are old rates. Here are more accurate rates:


To make it easy, here is a "best case" (depending on profitibility) if you were to start on 9/1/02. Most folks average 100 trips per month. You can fly much more (120 or more) if you want no life and live in domicile.

1st Year: 35.40/ trip.
2nd Year: 64.27/ trip
3rd Year: 81.17/ trip
4th Year: 93.63/ trip
5th Year: 104.25/trip or:
5th Year: 160.39/trip if you upgrade this year

Also, if hired on that date you will receive 4032 stock options. They will vest 3 months after your hire date (on 12/1/02 for this hypothetical). What that means is if the stock price on 12/1/02 is $15.00 and stays $15.00 they are worthless. But if they go to $25 say in a year or two, then they will be worth $40,320. ($10 X 4032). If the stock makes it to $35 in a few years, then the options will be worth $80, 640 and so on. You may cash them in anytime you want (so long as they have value!) But you have only 8 years to exercise your options.


DeepSpeed...you seem disappointed by these pay rates. Are you used to seeing rates that pay more than $6-10K/mo. for FOs? Over $16K/mo for a 5-yr CA? In addition to these hourly rates, SWA pilots get stock options with the company. I would say that SWA's pay rates are comperable with all but the largest (Delta, United, NWA, AA) of the US carriers. However, it should be noted that while SWA may not pay what Delta, UAL, et.al. pay, they are not suffering the major financial difficulties that the larger carriers are. SWA, JetBlue, AirTran, UPS, and FedEx seem to be the ones that are doing the best financially.

[DeepSpeed]

:)

Mr Earnest,

Thanks for the update. Unfortunately I dont know enough about the US market to be disappointed or thrilled. The smiley was my mistake.

But what you've written gives me a much better about the industry and its players.

In India, if you fly for Air India as an F/0 you take home about 3k/m US. Its much lower for the private airlines. We get about 4k/m take home (as Captains!) :) .

Thats the way it goes!

Nevertheless these are considered excellent salaries because the cost of living is VERY low, so you can save/invest/spend a huge chunk on anything you'd like.

[ernest t bass]

Deep..

I didn't intend any sarcasm with my questions. I am trying to paint as honest a picture as possible of things here in the US. Not trying to sway your decision one way or the other. I have no personal interest one way or the other. I am employed, and my wife is employed (knock on wood).

I wish you well in your quest to make an informed decision. BTW, there seems to be many jobs available at the RJ level. The pay is not as good, but that seems to be where the growth and opportunity is. I'm not real sure, but I think you could expect to make around $40K/yr as an FO and upwards of $80-100K/yr as a senior CA.

[DeepSpeed]

I wont be eligible to go to the States till late next year at the earliest, so I'll only have to make a decision then, so I have a year of asking questions about the industry to slowly build up my knowledge.

These bulletin boards are helpful since it helps in speaking to people in the know. I would be a lot blinder without them it seems.

My best to all, and thanks again!

:D

[ironbutt57]

The girls in India are prettier!!! if they look like the MTV ones I watch:) ;) ;)

[DeepSpeed]

Yeah I know. Thats why my husband is thinking of coming back to India. :p