How is type selection done?

[Tigerformation]

Hi guys, another question regarding pilot selection.

How is the decision made to send a selected pilot after intitial training to fast jet, mult or rotary wing? I know it has to do with the need for pilots from each branch, but what is that sets a pilot in his/her future flying boots, apart from that? i.e. ability etc... or is it purely the operational requirement of each branch?

Cheers,

Matt

[The Ugly Fend Off]

Primarily it will be done on your abilities. Another big player is your attitude to training and where the powers that be think that you will do best. The other thing, which you seem pretty aware off, is service needs, service needs, service needs. There might be 10 people on your streaming board who all have the ability to go fast jets. If there are only three FJ slots then seven people will more than likely go to the other two streams

[Min Decent Ht]

The RAF only recruits pilots with FJ potential. During training, ability,capacity/aptitude and attitude are the main deciders for future employment. As UFO pointed out, the other big factor is what slots are available. At the moment the RAF is desperate for FJ mates so if there is any chance someone will make it to the pointy ones they will be pushed on to the next stage of training= good news for potential pilots at the moment.
The other criteria for selection is the individual's choice of course. However, I wouldn't declare your ambition to be a Tristar co at the recruiting office; get your foot in the door first.;)

[Tigerformation]

Thanks guys!

I'm not sure exactly what I want to go for more, whatever I would get I would be over the moon. But I don't like to predict my fate just incase it has a negative affect. I guess you guys have all been through OASC right? If so could you give me any vital tips i know its been done before, but I want to round every edge and dot every i!

[canberra]

i remember reading in raf news about a pilot who on being asked what he wanted to fly said sar helicopters. and he got it!

[Redcarpet]

Min Decent Ht, I am sure that you would agree that Tigerformation would have to join a large queue of FJ pilots already waiting to get some widebody hours on the Trimotor.
:cool:

[UNCTUOUS]

TigerFormation
When I was an FTS Flt Cdr in the late JP/early Tucano era it primarily revolved around the phone-call from Barnwood with the numbers that they wanted ... and where. You would then sit down with the Boss (and sometimes DCFI/CFI) to debate the round pegs versus square holes conflicts. Group 3 helo was not always short of volunteers but generally non-FJ volunteers were always hard to come by. Luckily by that time most stewds knew where they stood. Our FTS (2Sqn in particular) was the one that invented non-confrontational flying training (and many a Staff Officer then went on to claim it as his and wrote papers about its great successes). Basically it meant that we adopted a supportive avuncular posture as instructors - (except for the Creamies who were always just good sticks who got on well with the stewds and so helped get the non-confrontational bit across). You wouldn't have wanted to go through the pre-existing system. In my time I can recall a run of four courses where we lost nobody, absolutely nil wastage. A few shaky ones revisited us later in their rotary role and they claimed to be more than happy about how it worked out for them. The only oddball that sticks in my mind was a very competent and mature chap who opted out of FJ after Valley, halfway through weapons trg, and went on to become a cat A Maritime Captain.
I cannot recall any instances where the Group One/Two/Three Streaming process created any great challenge or later grief. If they want FJ (and they always do) and you are keen, conchy and capable, you'll get your shot for sure. Don't forget to advertise your own preferences, once things are tracking well - and talk to "your man" about it. He will play the biggest part in the recommendation

[Spugford]

From what I can make out it's as simple an order of priority as:

1. Your ability (judged from EFT flying reports from either UAS or soon to be defunct JEFTS)

2. Service needs

3. (and a distant 3 at that!) Your preferences.

As someone said earlier, most plump for FJ and around 50% (don't quote me) are heading that way at the mo. However, I know of at least one very capable guy who had his heart set on SAR, but his scores meant he was sent to Linton on the FJ route. He was doing well there but kept pushing and was eventually re-streamed rotary. Don't know what he finished up on though, probably Hercs!!:p

[STANDTO]

Things I wish I'd done

Applied to the AAC instead of RAF

Applied to the RN instead of RAF

When asked what I wanted to fly at OASC, said " big yellow helicopters" instead of the stock "F3" answer.

Who knows where I might have been now............................

[topgun172]

Hi Tigerformation, im off to OASC in August for pilot selection, Whats your current situation, are you in the RAF or taking your first steps at OASC. Ive been after as much advice as i can get hold of, the main pointer i have gathered is not to Waffle in the interview, if you dont know, then say so because they will see right throught you apparently. Anyway best of luck

Regards
TP172

[RotaDish]

TopGun and all other aspiring Mil Pilots: Think not so much what the RAF can do for you, and more of what you can do for the RAF.

Some good info here, Min Decent Ht knows what he is on about, having been closely involved in a large number of pilots careers. My personal view, (Having been on many selection boards), is that for 80% of students, the instructors get it right. The basic equation is: (Slots/Skill(Attitude+Potential)Squared))+desire=Selection (I'm not a maths grad!)

However, the best advice is to work your hardest, and formulate an opinion of where you would like to go when you actually know what you are talking about, and you know more of the various roles! The student who wants to go "Creamie", so he/she can be at home and not have to deploy......nuff said. Incidentally, a former poster mentioned a Fast Jet chap who withdrew from Valley and went to Nimrods. That is true, and he was (and is) a awsome fellow, very skilled as a pilot, and at the time he was one of the few people in the environment who actually knew what was what. Having proved himself fully capable of the FJ role (He'd have been top of our course!), he placed his carefully considered cards on the table. Fortunately, he went where he wanted, and probably only because he was so well respected and liked! I his case the RAF made a good choice.......99.9% of other candidates would not be treated the way he was! If he is reading, hope you are well and all the best.

For my part, I was too busy working, researching "Truck Masters" and praying for good weather on SAP4 to worry about selection.....

Rota

[RotaDish]

Min Descent Ht.....

That is the 1st and only time I will ever state you know what you are talking about, in a public forum.

How are the Bugs?

Rota

[Tigerformation]

Topgun,


My current situation is i'm starting my last year of 6th form studies and working very hard at research, I am in the ATC and have achieved many things through it. Hopefully I will be able to apply before university and if successfull will scrap uni. I need all the help I can get basically mostly on the aptitude as all the courses I have been on has fullfilled the officer bit!

Any help greatly appreciated!

[topgun172]

Tigerform,

Ive just started my A2 aswell, awaiting pilot selection at Cranwell in August. What courses have you been on, i take it those were with the ATC. Im pretty sure that we only complete part 1 of the selection process for a sixthform/pilot sponsership and if successful, head up to Scotland for a 2 week prep for leadership.
The only part of the apititude that you can really prepare for is the mental arithmetic, such as speed, distance, time.
How is your basic maths?
Current affairs is another one to prepare for, a basic knowledge of a few significant events should be sufficient.
Anyway keep me informed of your progress
Are you going in August?

Regards

TP172

[Tigerformation]

Thanks topgun, I don't know when I shall go i've been advised to try at easter maybe for some reason. My maths needs some brush up work. As for leadership I've done basic courses with cadets and may do the junior leaders course program which should look good but i'm going to uni so don't know whether it will be feasable. If you have a messenger addy then mail me with it at [email protected] look forward to hearing from you. I'm not going on a sponsorship scheme i'm trying for direct entry first depending on my grades etc...

[topgun172]

OK tigerformation, hope everything goes well, and might see you around in the future, who knows?
Trying to sort my messenger out at the moment, been having problems, i'll add you soon as i can!

Regards
TP172

[Tigerformation]

Thanks Topgun!

I really do hope I get in as it is like most people my dream job. I am directly focussed now on the goal and WILL get there even if it takes a couple of tries!

[difar69]

A bit of advice, and don't take this the wrong way, DON'T, whatever you do pitch up a OASC believing that your ATC background will make a big difference with the boarding O's. Hats off to you for knowing what you want, doing some relevant research, and getting the most out of the cadets. Now is the time to leave that behind and tackle the next (real) stage head on. Use what you've learnt up until now, but keep that "in cadets......" stuff firmly locked away. Good luck!

[Tigerformation]

May i ask why my whole cadet life should be kept secret??

[Cougar]

There have been many instances where ex-cadets rock up to Officer Training thinking they are top s*** because they have been in air cadets. We even had a guy tell the drill instructor that he was teaching saluting incorrectly. When asked why by the drill instructor, the ex-cadet replied "because i used to be a WOFF in air cadets and i taught it the correct way". Telling this to a Flight Sergeant who has been in for 25+ years is not a good way to get off on the right foot.

Sure, if people ask, tell them you were in air cadets, but don't think that you know everything. Keep your mouth constrained and your ears and eyes open. Not the other way round. Very touchy subject if you prance in thinking you are god's gift to the world.

Simply put: everyone will be on the same footing regardless of previous history. Treat everyone the same way, and don't be prejudice. If you know stuff already, then thats fine, it may be easier for you, but be careful about what you say.

[Tigerformation]

I never boast about anything unless I know that they know i'm joking i.e. i know them! But thanks for the advice, I know a guy whos thinks he owns the shop but tried for the RAF and failed hehe. Well I#m just not that kind of person.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

Tiger,
No one is asking you to ignore your enitre cadet life. I made know secret of the fact I am an ex Cdt W/O and I believe the boarding officers still look on this favourably (otherwise, why would they have invented cadets?). However there seem to be far to many cadets out there that fail to appreciate the difference between leading a bunch of hormone driven teenagers and leading a group of guys your own age or older - some of whom may have already served many a year (I had a serving RAF Flight Sergeant on my OASC).
Best advice for OASC? RELAX!

Best of luck
PKC.

[Tigerformation]

Thank you for your advice, it is greatly appreciated. I think you are absolutly right, but it is better than having no experience at all and I think as you said it will stand me in good stead for the board. Tell me, how did you get on? Isn't the figures that the ATC provide the RAF with 45% of all its officers and something like 30% of its airmen/women? I know its not much but is considerable.

[dudly]

Appears selection process is basically the same in most country's.
USAF in the mid 60's. After about half of the class was washed out during the 53 weeks of training the assignments would come down with about 3 weeks remaining. Assignments were whatever the AF needed at the time. New pilots got a class ranking based on flying scores and academic scores. First in class picked what he wanted, then second in class and so forth. Gave an incentive to keep ones nose to the grindstone if you wanted a fast mover as there were usually only about 2 to 4 of those per class. My class started with 89 Lt's and we graduated 43.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

No worries Tiger. No idea what the stats are but things went great for me. Start IOT 11 August - should be an experience and a half!
The biggest hurdle is convincing many cadets that merrily being in the ATC does not improve ones chances of getting into the RAF. However what it does do is instil (or at least attempts to instil) the qualities that are looked for at OASC (or by any employer) thus increasing ones chances of getting in the armed forces. It certainly did in my case anyway.
And Dudly, the selection process does seem to be similar in other countries. The New Zealand selection process is almost identical to that of the RAF but spread over a couple of different testing sessions so they can eliminate candidates as they go. Suppose we can take comfort in the fact that it must be a pretty good process if its used all over the world!

(Any questions please feel free to email me).