Which UK airlines fly between non-UK airports?

[Rood]

With all the recent news stating UK airlines fly between European airports, rather than starting here, I was curious which ones do.

BA don`t seem to and Easyjet seem to use Swiss registered planes for the intra continental Europe traffic.

Who else is there?

[LandingConfig]

The Swiss-registered ones are easyJet Switzerland, separate from easyJet. easyJet operate loads of intra-European flights from bases like AMS, FCO, VCE, LIS, CDG, OPO.

[2Planks]

Only 10% (ish) of the orange aircraft are registered to the Swiss element, so the vast majority flying between European destinations belong to the Uk Company

[Cloud1]

BMI regional do, as I believe Flybe will when their DUS "base" opens.

[DVR6K]

BA fly between:

Abu Dhabi / Muscat
Doha / Bahrain
Singapore / Sydney

Used to do Phoenix / San Diego and several Australian cities from the Far East.

Nothing on short-haul.

[EI-BUD]

BA - Nassau/Grand Cayman
Eastern - Rodez /Paris Orly
Flybe - operating for Sas in Scandinavia ( not technocally their own op but they are operating s service pride of it.
But easyJet is far and away the biggest one in this space..

[edi_local]

Loganair used to fly Dublin-Donegal, however the service is now Aer Lingus.

[rutankrd]

BA Franchise carrier - Sunair from Denmark operate a number of inter European routes not touching the UK on BA flight numbers

bmiRegional - Operate various services across the EU from places such as Munich

Eastern operate within France and charters.

Easyjet (UK) extensive route structure

Thomas Cook and Thomson both operate their UK fleets in other domains including long haul however both are actually German owned businesses.

Now here is one you might be surprised by - Air Berlin are registered in the UK !

IAG group utilise their brands according to domain.

Other odd ball BA has a French subsidiary Openskys operating between Paris and New York

Flybe operate franchise services for SAS, had a Scandinavian business and will operate from Germany

Numerous UK cargo and package aircraft fly all over the place every night

Yep Brexit could have an effect if we can't retain the Eu open sky treaty condition.

Easyjet would almost certainly relocate .

[Denti]

Now here is one you might be surprised by - Air Berlin are registered in the UK !

Yup, but that is only the PLC which in turn owns the real operation. The flight operation company is based in Berlin and has of course a german AOC. The british PLC was chosen to prevent employees to have an equal representation in the board, like it is the law in germany.

[Cloud1]

Im not sure that the original post was aimed at including Franchise agreements, or UK airlines filling in gaps such as TUI or TCX when their European counterparts need extra capacity. It is more scheduled operations being operated by the UK carrier - so let's just go with their own flight number and being operated on a British registered aircraft therefore removing the likes of Sunair etc.

Easyjet - yes
BMI - yes
Eastern - yes
Flybe - not yet as their SAS flights operate with SAS numbers but when they open their DUS base it will be BE all the way.

[ATNotts]

Im not sure that the original post was aimed at including Franchise agreements, or UK airlines filling in gaps such as TUI or TCX when their European counterparts need extra capacity. It is more scheduled operations being operated by the UK carrier - so let's just go with their own flight number and being operated on a British registered aircraft therefore removing the likes of Sunair etc.

Easyjet - yes
BMI - yes
Eastern - yes
Flybe - not yet as their SAS flights operate with SAS numbers but when they open their DUS base it will be BE all the way.
FlyBe are opening their German base in Hannover surely; don't think they have any plans to operate from DUS to countries other then UK.

[GLAEDI]

I think this is opened as discussion what'll happen if the UK leave the EU. Currently a EU company have no restrictions on flying from one EU airport to another (not talking about EU openskies policy) apart from slot restricted airports like LHR, AMS & CDG. So where's the potential problems well it depends if the rules apply to the AOC or the companies HQ so below:

BA is owned by Spanish company IAG although AOC is UK. So any intra EU network I suspect will use IB's EU AOC.

FR is Irish so what happens to intra UK routes, well I suspect a separate UK AOC will be applied for maybe as Separate FR UK Plc being created.

U2 is British, lots of intra EU routes, so what's their next move. Well it could create a new U2 company based in a EU capital possibly Dublin. The airline that Brexit will be the biggest headache.

The rest of the smaller airlines, well I suspect that it'll mean extra costs if they were to create intra EU routes. Possibly for a while this will not be possible until the UK & EU negotiate a new Openskies agreements. How easy is that, well just look at the US market where various EU companies wanted to operate US domestic/international flights, the US carriers lobbied this to death. So will Alitalia, Lufthansa & Air France lobby to stop U2 operating routes, I suspect so.

[Rood]

Thanks for the answers. Looks like it may cause some bureaucratic aggravation but possible to use separate companies as they partly do already today. No doubt continental airlines will want to not be entirely obstructive as they lose out too. So the Swiss model is likely.

[EI-BUD]

While this topic is very worthy of discussion, if leaving the EU materialises it will takes years to take effect. I can see the current as is state being maintained as much as possible.

If the EU put restrictions on UK airlines operating inside EU (between EU points), this could lead to restrictions being put on place on non UK airlines flying into the UK, hence, back to the days of bilateral agreements all over the show... I don't think any material issues will arise..

[Helen49]

Amazing how the 'remainers' talk about plunging into the great unknown in the event of Brexit and yet at the same time manage to quote very precise statistics about the effect that it will have........can't have it both ways!!

[ATNotts]

Amazing how the 'remainers' talk about plunging into the great unknown in the event of Brexit and yet at the same time manage to quote very precise statistics about the effect that it will have........can't have it both ways!!
The "remainers" are flagging up the potential problems / issues with leaving. Nobody can make precise pronoucements as to what would happen if the UK votes to leave - and the "Brexiteers" haven't come up with anything other than hopes, prayers and theories, which is precisely why voting out is such a monumental risk to the UK, it's position in the world, and most importantly to the future of it's young people who have been denied a vote, as have the EU citizens who pay their taxes and made their homes and futures here.

[Fairdealfrank]

BA fly between:

Abu Dhabi / Muscat
Doha / Bahrain
Singapore / Sydney

Used to do Phoenix / San Diego and several Australian cities from the Far East.

Nothing on short-haul. .....and NAS-GCM, ANU-PLS, ANU-SKB, ANU-TAB, UVF-GND, UVF-POS.



The "remainers" are flagging up the potential problems / issues with leaving. Nobody can make precise pronoucements as to what would happen if the UK votes to leave - and the "Brexiteers" haven't come up with anything other than hopes, prayers and theories, which is precisely why voting out is such a monumental risk to the UK, it's position in the world, and most importantly to the future of it's young people who have been denied a vote, as have the EU citizens who pay their taxes and made their homes and futures here.
No this wrong, there are risks in leaving and it's probably more of a risk to remain, but what are the BENEFITS of staying or going?

Clearly there's not much benefit in remaining, otherwise the remain campaign would have jumped on on it. The EU is obviously not working. Also, do we really think that NO other country would follow the UK out of the EU should we choose to leave?

As for young people, there's not much a future for them if EU rates of unemployment cross the Channel.

When Irish youngsters left Ireland in recent years because of eurozone inspired unemployment there, they headed for countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK and the USA, NOT to Europe.

[ATNotts]

No this wrong, there are risks in leaving and it's probably more of a risk to remain, but what are the BENEFITS of staying or going?


Sorry, I can't let that statement go. There are most definitely unknown factors whether the UK remains in the EU, or leaves - but to say that the risk of staying are greater than the those leaving simply aren't credible.

The advantages of staying in are, amongst others:-

Retaining simplified arrangements for the movement of good across borders - no transit documents, vehicle permits, customs clearance, outlaying of VAT up front on import, exports clearance.

Free movement of people allowing Brits to live and work in other EU States.

Freedom of UK based airlines, especially EasyJet to use UK registered aircraft to operate internal EU services - setting up a separate company within the EU would negate the problem, but would be an increased cost to their businesses.

The laws relating to maximum working hours, parental leave, TUPE - all of which a Conservative government would undoubtedly repeal within hours of being released from the EU.

Freedom to buy goods across borders when travelling without incurring the wrath of HMRC (and bills for VAT and excise duty).

That's probably enough for now. It annoys me that the leaders of the remain campaign are concentrate on "project fear" rather than highlighting what the EU does for us. I wish they would start becoming more positive.

[Helen49]

ATNotts

The remainers [represented by the Chancellor] are this very day making very precise pronouncements about the consequences of Brexit.......whilst as you rightly say 'nobody can make such statements'!

We do, however, know that membership of 'the club' is exceedingly costly; that the bureaucratic costs of EU membership are massive; that it is a huge gravy train; that it is run to a significant extent by unelected Council officials; that it has resulted in unacceptable immigration figures which the UK's infrastructure cannot support; that it has year's worth of unaudited accounts! We also know that historically the British have been world leaders at invention, enterprise, trading and commerce....we don't need the EU and we certainly don't need the additional countries which are likely to be joining the EU in the future.

It is time to run our own country, make our own laws, control our own borders, decide how we spend our taxes and re-establish trading arrangements and transport systems which served us well in the past. Nothing to fear about being sovereign in our own land!

[SWBKCB]

Great, just what we need, another referendum thread - next stop Jet Blast!

[The SSK]

Whatever anybody thinks about the EU, it is undeniable that the creation of the Single European Air Transport Market between 1993 and 1997 was a landmark achievement which could not have come about otherwise. In other words, no such thing (within the single market) as a 'British' airline, 'Irish' airline etc. Only community carriers, free to fly where they chose, as often as they chose, with whatever prices they chose.

Brexit would probably not change anything in this respect because it's already happened.

[EI-BUD]

Whatever anybody thinks about the EU, it is undeniable that the creation of the Single European Air Transport Market between 1993 and 1997 was a landmark achievement which could not have come about otherwise. In other words, no such thing (within the single market) as a 'British' airline, 'Irish' airline etc. Only community carriers, free to fly where they chose, as often as they chose, with whatever prices they chose.


The SSK, I agree completely with your closing line that things probably wont change. However, the above comment is worthy of some debate. Most would agree deregulation has been a good thing. More people travelling and lower pricing in most cases. However, in the long term there are huge down sides. Look at the US. There are now a few big carriers and a few niche ones. Deregulation has lead to huge competition, loss making carriers until we arrive today where consolidations is the order of the day, we are back to square 1, few carriers charging higher prices. The US airline industry is now collectively profitable (not all down to low fuel prices), the customer is paying more.

The UK has a handful of airlines now, whereas say at the turn of the century there were probably 3 times as many. The resultant is too much power held by a few big carriers. The downside, some of the smaller airports get nothing. There is an argument to be had on this topic. Not clear cut positives all over.

Less jobs it could be argued with fewer carriers, hence duplication of roles removed, eg bmi adsorbed into BA, BA short haul adsorbed into Flybe, etc. etc. And despite the growth in low cost flying some sources say that it is likely if there had no rise in the low cost airlines, we would still probably see almost as much air travel, just in a different form. I'd be glad to hear the perspectives of others on this topic.

[ATNotts]

ATNotts

The remainers [represented by the Chancellor] are this very day making very precise pronouncements about the consequences of Brexit.......whilst as you rightly say 'nobody can make such statements'!

We do, however, know that membership of 'the club' is exceedingly costly; that the bureaucratic costs of EU membership are massive; that it is a huge gravy train; that it is run to a significant extent by unelected Council officials; that it has resulted in unacceptable immigration figures which the UK's infrastructure cannot support; that it has year's worth of unaudited accounts! We also know that historically the British have been world leaders at invention, enterprise, trading and commerce....we don't need the EU and we certainly don't need the additional countries which are likely to be joining the EU in the future.

It is time to run our own country, make our own laws, control our own borders, decide how we spend our taxes and re-establish trading arrangements and transport systems which served us well in the past. Nothing to fear about being sovereign in our own land!
Everything you say is true - supposing you lived in the latter part of the 19th / early years of the 20th centuries. The world has moved on, not necessarily for the better, but we are where we are, and therefore romantic notions of how "great" Britain can plough a lone furrow are no longer viable.

SWBKCB

Can't agree with you more - but I guess it is inevitable that any thread started here that asks or makes points about the UK and commercial aviation post the referendum is going to become another in / out thread. It is the most important decision most of us will make in our lifetimes, and it will affect the younger generation long after most of posting here are in our boxes. You may be sure however that I will not be the first, on any thread in AA&R to turn the discussion in a political direction - I'll leave that to others.

[Fairdealfrank]

The advantages of staying in are, amongst others:-

Retaining simplified arrangements for the movement of good across borders - no transit documents, vehicle permits, customs clearance, outlaying of VAT up front on import, exports clearance.

Free movement of people allowing Brits to live and work in other EU States.

Freedom of UK based airlines, especially EasyJet to use UK registered aircraft to operate internal EU services - setting up a separate company within the EU would negate the problem, but would be an increased cost to their businesses.

The laws relating to maximum working hours, parental leave, TUPE - all of which a Conservative government would undoubtedly repeal within hours of being released from the EU.

Freedom to buy goods across borders when travelling without incurring the wrath of HMRC (and bills for VAT and excise duty).
...................if it is so good, why do we never hear any of this from the remain campaign?

[ATNotts]

...................if it is so good, why do we never hear any of this from the remain campaign?
I really wish I knew the answer to that question; and I am 100% behind the Sturgeon woman, when she say that the campaign, if it is to succeed, has to emphasize the positive, rather than try and put the fear of God in voters.

[Rood]

Interesting points, but if you accept the dodgy dossier as true then you are signing up to mass migration into the UK forever. Whatever that does for UK airlines it will probably be the final nail for all the GA airfields that were designated brownfield housing estates as the masses have to go somewhere. So in the end not good for those who love flying over sitting in cheap flight tubes with dayglow seats. Democracy or a cheap weekend in Prague, your choice.
As someone commented earlier this thread is probably now likely to be sent to Jet Blast so I`ll leave it at that.

[The SSK]

If you try hard enough, you can blame everything on migrants.

Well done.

[Rood]

If you try hard enough, you can blame everything on migrants.

Well done.

Ah yes always accuse someone of racism when nothing else works...

Anyway I blame John Prescott and I thought he came from Hull.

[Fairdealfrank]

I really wish I knew the answer to that question; and I am 100% behind the Sturgeon woman, when she say that the campaign, if it is to succeed, has to emphasize the positive, rather than try and put the fear of God in voters. Could it be because staying in isn't that advantageous so they use fear?

If you're for remain, don't worry: when it's the establishment, the vested interests, and the metropolitan elite v. ordinary normal people, ordinary normal people ain't going to win. Simple as really.






If you try hard enough, you can blame everything on migrants.

Well done.



Ah yes always accuse someone of racism when nothing else works...

Anyway I blame John Prescott and I thought he came from Hull.
It's about much more than free movement, migration, and/or illegal immigration.

It's not about "racism" either, most of the above are of the same race.

However, it's common sense to know the amount of people settling in the country so that the government can plan: sufficient housing, sufficient school places, sufficient number of jobs, etc., etc..

Also, there is a need to decide who comes in: free movement of criminals is obviously a bad idea (we have enough of our own), again, it's plain common sense.

But none of this common sense is possible as long as the UK remains in the EU.

[jensdad]

To move things back to aviation-related matters (and to reignite an old bone of contention) I wouldn't mind it if we had a 'UK' flag carrier that flew between non-London airports.