day taxiing/night flight vs night taxiing/day flight

[outlandishoutlanding]

In the early hours of the morning, if you taxi before first light but the wheels don't leave the ground until first light, this counts as a day flight and no NVFR rating is required, correct?

Similarly, if you land before last light but taxi after last light.

However, for the purposes of logging, if you have planned a night flight, but some of the taxiing occurs during the hours of daylight (but the entire flight time is during HN), can you log the entire chock-to-chock time as night hours, or do you log start time and end time and calculate day/night hours based on the instant of first/last light?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Yeah, happy April Fool's Day to you too!

[training wheels]

Get yourself LogTen Pro... It works it out automatically for you.

[Jabawocky]

Forkie……brilliant!

If you need to scrounge every second of night, IF whatever…..it is time to rethink your whole operation.

[Capn Bloggs]

if you have planned a night flight, but some of the taxiing occurs during the hours of daylight (but the entire flight time is during HN), can you log the entire chock-to-chock time as night hours
I was going to type No, but that is too short for PPrune, so I'll type Negative! :} :ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

How about a normally 'daylight' flight, for that portion during a 'FULL' eclipse...??

Cheeerrrsss :E

[outlandishoutlanding]

I don't have any logbook need for more daytime VFR instruction (whether I have competency-based need for day VFR instruction is unlear).

so if I want to log night hours (for a NVFR rating or CIR, etc) being able to start the clock at 5 minutes before last light means that everyone potentially goes home 5 minutes earlier. Win-win.

it's pretty dark at 5 minutes to last light anyhow so it's not as though I'm cheating myself out of taxi practice in the dark.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
I would have thought the definition of "flight time" as opposed to "air time" would have made it clear, having taken into account the definition of "night" for these purposes. But I could be wrong, I haven't researched AAT and other court decisions, or sundry CASA documents that might change/seek to change the legal definitions.
Can Log Book Pro work out if you have a NVFR or IR, or not?
Tootle pip!!

[Lead Balloon]

[I]f you taxi before first light but the wheels don't leave the ground until first light, this counts as a day flight and no NVFR rating is required, correct?Incorrect.

As LeadSled has alluded, the definition of "flight" includes (at least) taxiing on the way to take off. If you taxi for the purposes of taking off before the beginning of civil daylight, you are engaging in flight at night. If you don't have a NFVR rating....

(But if it was an April Fool's joke, good one, and well done FTDK for spotting it. :ok:)

[Capn Bloggs]

so if I want to log night hours (for a NVFR rating or CIR, etc) being able to start the clock at 5 minutes before last light means that everyone potentially goes home 5 minutes earlier. Win-win.

Cheat-cheat! :=

[Squawk7700]

There was once a young instructor at YMMB that logged a solid hour or more of NVFR for his student in complete daylight.... He lost his job for it. I wonder what he wrote in his logbook. In his defence it was late afternoon :-)

True story !

It was a Royal stuff-up by the instructor.

[training wheels]

Many years ago, there was a publication called the 'Visual Flight Guide' and in it were tables for calculating civil twilight. This was usually a few minutes later than sunset. You use this guide to determine when you could log 'night' hours. It seems like these tables are no longer used?

[Lead Balloon]

The beginning and end of daylight charts in the VFG always were and always will be merely a reproduction of the same charts from AIP. You can use them any time. :ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

in it were tables for calculating civil twilight.
Plenty of apps that do this.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well, on the 'East Coast', 'tis now 2nd April.....

And the correct 'guess' is.....

Hint - it sorta revolves around when tis dark and when tis ain't.......

Ah Well......:uhoh:

[Fly4Business]

Which night/day definition are we referring to?

We could extend the question further. Is taxiing from hangar to fuel station a ground based flight with zero landings? Do you need a SVFR clearance for taxiing the same if foggy? Does it make a difference for the block times if you taxi after re-fuelling back to the hangar to go for a piss?

[LeadSled]

Which night/day definition are we referring to?Fly4Business,
The AU aviation applicable one, that gives rise to the graphs in the AIP.
From the end of evening civil twilight to the beginning of morning civil twilight.
Not to be confused with some practices elsewhere.
Tootle pip!!

[Stationair8]

Retired CFI, always tells the story of DCA doing his students NVFR flight test in daylight under the hood.

Apparently the Examiner of Airman didn't want to fly in a C172 at night.

How would you log that in your logbook LeadSled, 2.0 day for NVFR test?

[SpyderPig]

Was all the rage at a certain operator in Darwin prior to Part 61 becoming effective, every .1 counted!!!

[Tinstaafl]

Outlandishoutlanding, on any given flight (defined as 1st moves under own power until comes to rest at the completion of the flight) you log what happened. For example, if a 2 hr flight had .5 hr that was during a period that qualifies as night flight, then you would log 1.5 day/.5 night for that flight. You don't log the whole of the flight as day (or night) based on which period the majority was in.

Whether you are qualified for any particular portion of a flight is a different matter. If you're not qualified for type of flight you shouldn't be doing that portion of flight for which you're not qualified.