Crawling amputee

[pilotchute]

What is this being reported that a double leg amputee was told to "crawl" to the aircraft? I really don't beleive it.

[Chris2303]

As Wikipedia says "citation required"

[DaveReidUK]

As Wikipedia says "citation required"

A few seconds with Google finds an interview with the alleged victim:

Dad who had both legs amputated claims Ryanair staff told him to CRAWL to plane on way home from holiday - Manchester Evening News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/ryanair-complaint-matthew-parkes-amputee-11096189#ICID=FB-MEN-main)

[megan]

Wife works in marketing. Mmmmm!!!!

[Aluminium shuffler]

Sounds like complete :mad: to me. People wildly exaggerate or even concoct stories for media attention and money, and no-one would refuse wheelchair assistance to a person in his condition. Waiting for the ambulift for thirty minutes or more, on the other hand, is all too common, and no airline has control over that.

[JW411]

My youngest son uses a wheelchair. We have transited Malaga airport on many occasions (the latest was two weeks ago). The passenger support staff there have on every occasion been excellent.

[ICEHOUSES]

His Wife is an attention seeker, always in the local press, probably didn't happen at all.

[mickjoebill]

His Wife is an attention seeker, always in the local press, probably didn't happen at all.

You mean the story doesn't stand up?

[Chesty Morgan]

Mickjoebill that is just awful.













I like it.

[Capn Bloggs]

MJB: Ppost of the year! :D

[IBMJunkman]

Ryanair fail: Double amputee Matthew Parkes asked to crawl onto plane (http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/double-leg-amputee-forced-to-crawl-across-tarmac-and-up-steps-of-plane/news-story/ea64bcb64a1b6e5d68978f497052e45d)

[dramoundana]

"Wife works in marketing. Mmmmm!!!!" Thank you, Megan and aox.. Had a poke around and found she is a Director of a company that advertised for a 'Lead Generator ' in 2014 ..
"Working on an Outbound dialler
Rapport Building
Establishing client has had an accident and not claimed prior.
Passing over to a closer to finalise the call"

May be trying to shake a few alleged victims of Ryanair out of the tree using the press.. unsuccessfully judging by comments in the Mail!

[Nialler]

All looks a bit dodgy.

I've flown Ryanair many times. The thing about the sandwich strikes me as odd. The cabin service starts at either end of the cabin, with two trolleys operating. In any event, if he needed a sandwich to go with his meds whey not be certain and bring one on board, which will likely be a cheaper option?

[harrryw]

As an amputee I find it completly believable. I have flown with wheelchair reguested to seat and at the airport boarded in a normal wheelchair and then told to get to my seat 12 rows down. Because of other medical conditions I could not and had a really hard job convincing them that an aisle wheelchair was needed and they kept telling me there was none. That was with a full service airline at a mainline asian airport.

Remember people handling wheelchairs are very low paid untrained labour in some places.

I was unwilling (and unable) to do a tarzan act swinging from seat back to seat back as they wanted.

[ExXB]

Under EU regulations it is the airport, not the airlines, that are responsible for handling of PRMs from the parking lot to the aircraft door.

[JW411]

Exactly so: it has always been the airport passenger assistance staff who have been responsible for getting my son on and off the aircraft.

It has sod-all to do with easyJet, Ryanair, Lufthansa, British Airways or Delta.

It's an airport problem and NOT an airline problem.

[harrryw]

Sorry it has something to do with the airlines. The airport services are provided to an airline for their passengers and aircraft. The airline is the party with whom the passenger has a contract. The airline is the party who has the responsibility to provide non discriminatory travel for its passengers. In europe it does this by contracting the airport to provide services. The pasenger claims against the airline and the airline claims against the airport.
Not in my backyard is not acceptible where disability is concerned.

[GERRY MARTIN]

I am a leg amputee and travel by air frequently mostly with Ryanair from Dublin. I never have problems, I book aid and assist through airport to aircraft steps and vice versa at arrival point. On board the cabin crew are always on the ball to help me. Abroad also no hassles , just book the help you require and no problems!. The banter with the cabin crew is great. Well done Ryanair.

[edi_local]

Sorry it has something to do with the airlines. The airport services are provided to an airline for their passengers and aircraft. The airline is the party with whom the passenger has a contract. The airline is the party who has the responsibility to provide non discriminatory travel for its passengers. In europe it does this by contracting the airport to provide services. The pasenger claims against the airline and the airline claims against the airport.
Not in my backyard is not acceptible where disability is concerned.
If the airline has informed the PRM assistance company in plenty of time and the company has agreed to meet the flight, but still fails to show up then it's not the airlines problem and in my experience, even in Europe, we will put the passenger in touch with the customer relations of the PRM assistance provider and prove we did everything required of us to get the service delivered. The airline cannot magically produce a wheelchair or a trained member of staff to handle the passenger or the wheelchair, so what must they do if the service provider doesn't adhere to the contract? The passenger will suffer, but it most certainly isn't the fault of the airline.

[Capn Bloggs]

The airline cannot magically produce a wheelchair or a trained member of staff to handle the passenger or the wheelchair, so what must they do if the service provider doesn't adhere to the contract? The passenger will suffer, but it most certainly isn't the fault of the airline.
You Europeans need to fly in a place where service means just that. From the check-in counter to my seat to being put into the terminal at the other end, here, I'm the airline's responsibility. Still if you only pay $10 to go 500km, what can you expect...

[Gove N.T.]

What is this being reported that a double leg amputee was told to "crawl" to the aircraft? I really don't beleive it.
Reminds me of the time when, at LHR, our WCHR team member asked an American lady with a swollen ankle to "hop in" to the WCHR. She duly did and complained bitterly that her other ankle would now be swollen!! I am still amazed at the stupidity of some people

[ExXB]

Harryw - those are some of the arguments the (legacy) airlines made when discussing the new regulation with DG-Tren when the new regulation was being considered. However the regulation lays the responsibility with the airport. No ifs, ands or buts. Of course the airlines pay for this, but the regulation precludes them from helping their own customers until they reach the aircraft door.

It's different outside Europe.

[edi_local]

You Europeans need to fly in a place where service means just that. From the check-in counter to my seat to being put into the terminal at the other end, here, I'm the airline's responsibility. Still if you only pay $10 to go 500km, what can you expect...

I don't understand this comment.

In the USA the airline itself often provides the service from the check in desk to the aircraft seat. I used to work for a US airline and my initial training included how to handle passengers who required assistance, pushing wheelchairs, safe lifting etc. As I was based in Europe that entire section of training was totally irrelevant to me as I never, ever personally handled a PRM passenger as in my station the service is outsourced. What is wrong with that, exactly?

99.9% of the time the exact same service is given to the passenger whether the person pushing the chair is a direct airline employee, an airport employee or a third party employee. It makes no difference. I can guarantee you that even those who work directly for the airlines in the USA occasionally mess it up big time, so your comments about flying in a place where there is service and paying $10 to go 500km (a trend which comes from the USA might I add) is totally un-called for and downright wrong.

[Capn Bloggs]

Edi, I was merely pointing out the way it happens here, obviously totally different to "there". The only reason a large airline would contract out wheelchair services would be to save money, so "it's not their problem". It sounds like bureaucracy gone mad if there are regulations that prohibit airlines providing their own ground services. If you pay good money, then we expect good service from that airline, not "oh sorry, the lift/wheelchair is being used by Mrs Bloggs on airline XXX, which is running late, you'll have to wait".

Re my $10 comment, "you get what you pay for". :ok:

[Reverserbucket]

Sad how things have changed. A British airline I worked for in the '90's had a team of customer service staff dedicated to providing assistance to PRM's, UM's etc. They were located in a small lounge near the check-in areas on the departure concourse known as 'specials' and would often be seen cheerily meeting arrivals at the aircraft door with a wheelchair. They were real ambassadors for the company. These days it's all contract - G4S or Menzies I see standing at the airbridge checking social media on their phones :(

[ExXB]

Reverse bucket. The only way an airline can legally assist their own customers (in EU/EFTA/CH) from arrival to aircraft door is to subcontract this service at a particular airport or terminal from the airport authorities.

Yes, this is what the regulation says.

And the airlines pay the airports based on their proportion of total airport passengers, not on PRMs actually flown.

[Piltdown Man]

The article in the MEN and Mr Parkes acciount don't quite tie up. Also missing is operational knowledge on how PRMs (Airline term meaning Persons of Reduced Mobility) are handled at airports. Given the choice, you board your PRMs first and disembark them last because it it more efficient to do so. But when they are boarded last, they are still brought on using a narrow wheelchair but now if you don't keep your elbows in you will bang into other passengers. But the staff providing the assistant normally clear a path for you. As for disembarkation, you sometimes have to wait longer than seams reasonable. This is for several reasons. In the olden days, a couple of burly chaps would simply lift the PRM in a small chair and place them in their seat. Quick, simple, job done. But in our modern world, we can't do that. No, we have to use complicated bits of equipment, send people on courses and have equal opportunity, comply with discrimination legislation and other such guff. And the only people who appear to be able to provide this service are those who provide the lowest quote. They are sub-contracted to the airport and no amount of shouting or stamping your feet will get them to your aircraft any quicker; in fact it may even delay their arrival. And this is where the quality airlines score. While your passenger waits you can look after them. Tea, coffee, bubbly, biscuits, sandwiches etc. (that we can offer for free) and you can have a chat and enjoy their company.

As for the suggestion that you can crawl to the loo, well that I can believe. If for no other reason than I think MOL doesn't really care about his fecking passengers. On our aircraft we have an inflight wheelchair and a (detachable) handle in the loo so our PRMs can pay a visit.

What is clear is that in general, we don't have proper PRM handling in UK airports.

[SouthendMike]

Since becoming disabled just over two years ago, I have benefited from PRM assistance provided by OCS at Birmingham, Bristol and Gatwick.

At Birmingham, the service was superb both o/b and i/b

At Bristol, on the days we travelled, they had "staffing issues" meaning that the whole experience was a pig's breakfast, both o/b and i/b

At Gatwick, o/b was very good, but i/b was a disaster area as we arrived mid-evening, when it appears there was a shift change and we were left driverless, in a buggy, in a long, deserted corridor, for over half an hour with no one to enquire as to what was going on. When we finally got to Baggage reclaim, the hall was empty and our luggage was nowhere to be seen. Our "handler" then had to ask someone in the Customs area where our luggage might be. It was eventually found, after much huffing, puffing and sucking of teeth, in a side room, out of sight of its' owners (us). An absolute shambles!

I'm flying across The Pond in 10 days' time, with BA from LHR, and the PRM service there is provided by "Omniserv" (never heard of them before!) I emailed them to ask where the Assistance phone is at Terminal 5 when I arrive kerbside, and got no reply. 10 days later I asked the same question through a different email address, and after a week, still got no reply.

In frustration, I emailed the CEO, querying why I had no response to two emails, and within 10 minutes I had a reply from him, explaining that he was abroad on holiday, but had forwarded my email to a LHR-based Director. Within minutes I had an email response from the Director concerned, followed immediately by an email and 'phone call from the Customer Services Manager at T5.

Having given my Car registration number and my expected arrival time, she is arranging for a wheelchair handler and baggage trolley to be waiting for me kerbside for when I arrive ("but give us a ring when you're about 15 mins away in case you're delayed") I'll report back on this thread when I return, particularly as I've requested PRM Assistance at Boston and Jacksonville, so I'll be able to make an experienced-based comparison of EU vs US PRM provision.

Wish me luck!

[ExXB]

In the US it is the airline(s) that are responsible for PRMs.

My experience at LGW (elderly F-i-L) was the pits. And Bristol often has 'staffing issues' (same relative). Of course it is the local authorities (UK CAA) that are charged with ensuring compliance with the regulation. They could give a stuff.

[S.o.S.]

SouthendMike Welcome to the 'cabin'. Thank you for the detailed report, which sounds like a typical British experience. Do stop back to let us know more after your next trip.

[Rossian]

...after asking the question here back in January, I phoned Emirates to request the above for my coming trip to Bangkok from Glasgow.

On the day we were offered assistance at the check in desk. SWMBO initially declined testily, I'm OK this morning. However on being reminded that the EK gate was right at the end of a very long corridor, agreed and was wheeled to the lounge.

Get to Dubai and i was peremptorily asked for "My chitty" and another passenger waiting with an elderly parent said she had been there 30 mins....... After 10 mins SWMBO had a bijou tantrumette and hobbled off to the escalator. Fortunately we had plenty of time.

At BKK there was a young racing snake in the starting blocks at the door with madame's name on a card. We set off at a spanking pace which I had difficulty staying with. At the first immigration queue he did a body swerve and took us to another one with many fewer people waiting and stayed with us through to the baggage reclaim, helped with the bags and wheeled us out to the waiting limo. Generous tip well deserved.
On the return leg a chair was positioned behind madame at the check in desk. Excellent!

At Dubai - guess what? A stressed Emirates employee assured us that it would soon be here - guess what, it wasn't. Apparently at DBX, their home base, they've contracted the service out to Joe Schmukkaluck! Who is completely incompetent. And this time we had only 90 mins transfer time. My turn for a bijou tantrumette! and started walking and hijacked a passing wheelchair driver. He wasn't happy but I was even unhappier. We made it but it was a bloody sight more stressful than it needed to be
Back at GLA and a chair was offered but declined - we were only going across the road.

I was offered an "explanation" by a cabin crew member for the crap system at DBX. Apparently for flights from Delhi, Islamabad and Karachi there are sometimes DOZENS of wheel chairs lined up in the airbridge as they are "prioritised through immigration and customs". The system is understood and much abused from those departure points.

Maybe if the airlines here took the same responsibility as they seem to have done in the US things might improve. I won't hold my breath.

[PAXboy]

I have seen the wheelchair trick pulled at JNB. They may not have twigged how much it is being abused. On the other hand, it might be that the fat tips given by those wheeled through at speed are enough to ensure that the system will continue.

[ExXB]

Rossian - One issue I have heard is that if assistance is refused at one point, that message gets passed along down the line. Sorta like a no-show, if you don't show up for your first flight, there is no way of knowing that your going to be there for your connecting flight.

My f-i-l was just as adamant that he didn't need assistance, but he did.

[edi_local]

ExXB

I've worked on a check in desk before, it's perfectly fine for people to only want a wheelchair in transit at a large airport or only on arrival if they know the airport has lots of steps or is certain to have aircraft steps and no jetty for example. Often someone flying from a small airport they know well will know they can make the journey to the plane unassisted, but may struggle with longer distances at the other end. I've personally never heard of the wheelchair service being denied at one stage of the journey because they turned it down at another. In fact it's usually possible to add the wheelchair service on a per segment basis in most airline systems.

[ExXB]

Don't have a personal experience on this, but in discussions with regulators on this subject one airline mentioned that this could be a possible reason why one particular passenger didn't receive assistance at a connecting airport.

As I recall it was outside Europe where the airlines were being slugged by the airport with very high PRM fees, even if the passenger declined it. That airline had been cancelling down-line PRM requests as a result, but promised to look into their procedures.

I have no idea what the final outcome was, but I filed that information for future reference.