what has broken at SAAA?

[Sunfish]

missing a CEO and four councilors?

[LeadSled]

Sunny,

Good question, I only found out about it yesterday, if I get any verifiable information, I will let you know, but it sound like a bit of a palace coup.

The CEO was a good guy, and will be a serious loss. I could speculate, but I won't, I'll wait for the facts (or is that "true facts") to emerge.

As an aside, CASA is involving itself directly in amateur built aircraft in a most disturbing and unlawful way, which is sounding the death-knell of the Experimental Amateur Built Category as we have had it since 1998, as the CASA Sports Aviation Office empire building proceeds apace.

Tootle pip!!

[Squawk7700]

Maybe Sunfish, try attending your local SAAA chapter meeting and you can hear all about it from them. That's how they work... National council, TC's, AP's local chapters and all mostly volunteers doing this work you YOU.

I often find that when I buy a bag of oranges there may be one that goes mouldy, and as a result the others quicky go mouldy around it so it's best to either remove the mouldy one first or you remove the others that it made mouldy.

[poteroo]

Here's my take on where we're headed. Amateur organisations so underfunded they'll all fail. Won't be at all surprised to see all aircraft below 1500 kg soon bundled into a single grouping with divisions only for 'experimental' or 'factory built'. Registrations, whether numbers or letters, then all with CASA - but all with huge annual fee attached. RPL modified slightly as the licence - with annual fee or biennial fee attached. CASA directly controlling training standards. Could save everyone a lot of grief with trying to keep underfunded amateur organisations afloat - just to do CASAs' work. happy days,

[Squawk7700]

So Poteroo, are you saying that RA-Aus is "underfunded" or just SAAA? Are they both "amateur" organizations in your words?

[Sunfish]

the costs of all aviation continue to rise thanks to the unreasonable demands of the regulator. I now require "retraining" an mpc refresher course to be permitted. to maintain an aircraft I have just built myself. I am up for sending my prop back to NZ for mandatory maintenance before I've even fitted it. I am expecting mandatory professional certification of fuel gauges in addition to altimeter and transponder. then there is the ASIC. then I have to convert to a part 61 license, etc. etc. the list of hoops I am required to jump through is just getting longer and longer. I just spent $1000 on refresher flight training before I do my AFR.

if SAAA goes under, as now seems likely, then I have wasted my money as well as my time.

[Squawk7700]

now require "retraining" an mpc refresher course to be permitted

I do not believe that this has happened yet. The solution was to do the MPC course just before you finished your build and then you would get two years out of it. We don't know what the "refresher" will look like just yet.

I am up for sending my prop back to NZ for mandatory maintenance before I've even fitted it

This is a vendor issue and surely not CASA's fault.

I am expecting mandatory professional certification of fuel gauges in addition to altimeter and transponder


Altimeter and transponder $300 per two years. Fuel gauges? Perhaps don't fit complex ones and it won't be an issue.

then I have to convert to a part 61 license, etc. etc.

Zero cost to pilots, it happens automatically at your AFR.

I just spent $1000 on refresher flight training before I do my AFR.

That is your personal circumstance and not a fault of the regulator.

It's not all doom and gloom.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
There were/are those in SAAA who had ambitions/pretension about becoming the RAOz of the bottom end of GA, something which I always thought rather unrealistic. Longing for the CASA mandated cash flow of the pre- CASR 21 days has also been evident.

Self-Administration does not save money, it is no cheap option.

CASA is doing some very strange things (well, not strange, but completely contrary to CASA published policy and Government policy, just your usual common or garden variety iron ring Empire building) in really changing the character of Experimental generally, and Experimental Amateur Built in particular, which, if continued, spells the end of the category, and takes us back pre- even AABA.

Some of these actions have been clearly contrary to black letter L-A-W, but those unfortunates on the receiving end I feel very sorry for, because it a very very un-level playing field, battling CASA.

As usual, the inability of various interested parties to cooperate and fight for rights, as opposed to appeasing CASA functionaries, is quite evident.

On the maintenance front, all the proposed "new" rules continue to ignore owner/builder maintenance issue, and it is taking us back to CAR30/Part 145 LAME maintenance of the aircraft you built yourself, which was never intended. Another example of an unholy alliance of vested interests using "safety regulation" for commercial purposes, to guarantee a cash flow --- a major reason for high costs in so much of Australian aviation.

As to VH- amateur built, pilot training and CASA??, it's just a minimum of a PPL, and they all just fit a basic group, so what is being suggested.

Not more of the "special pilot training" SAAA has been pushing, I trust??

Tootle pip!!

[Clare Prop]

Level playing field? When RA-Aus can conduct training alongside GA flying schools? It has been one of the biggest nails in GA 's coffin :( How level do you guys want it?

[spinex]

If you forced prospective RA Aus pilots to incur the expense of a PPL you might as well shut the category down now. I'd suggest the answer is more about cutting the BS and costs involved in running a GA school to allow them to compete.

[Clare Prop]

Well I'm a one man band with no BS and costs cut to the bone and no way I could keep my aircraft in the air and pay the rent let alone keep some crumbs for myself if I charged Ra-Aus prices. Not all GA flying schools are bloated bureaucracies. := Maintenance is my biggest cost and some of my aircraft are less than 10 years old.

[spinex]

Would never suggest that they were, I know a few people who wear all the hats and draw none of the salaries. My point stands though, I don't believe that the majority of RA Aus pilots would have taken up flying if you forced them onto the PPL path. One of the big attractions is that they can deal with it in bite size chunks; 20 hours at a lower cost is much more palatable than 45-50 hours of GA costs. Now if GA schools actively encouraged RA cert holders to come across instead of treating them like second class citizens, they would have a steady stream of clients. Again, this isn't directed at you - I haven't had the pleasure of your acquaintance ( I don't think) but I've walked around with more than one mate looking to upgrade and there is a lot of bad attitude in many big city schools.

[triton140]

I don't believe that the majority of RA Aus pilots would have taken up flying if you forced them onto the PPL path.

What the man said!

I took up flying in my sixties, learning on Jabirus. That got me hooked without a huge outlay and led me into a PPL as I got a little frustrated with the RA limitations (pax, airspace, etc).

So now I'm a happy PPL, spending all my free cash (maybe not all, but as much as SWMBO allows me) on flying, happy as a pig in the proverbial.

Without RA, would never have got here - so it's not a competition, they are complementary.

[LeadSled]

triton 140,
Well said.
Tootle pip!!

[Ethel the Aardvark]

I hear SAAA are struggling again and are looking at amalgamating with RAA,
does anyone know if its a reciprocal desire,

[no_one]

SAAA is a classic example of everything that is wrong with aviation in Australia. At a national level it is a group of grumpy people who would rather squabble with one another that make a meaningful contribution. It is amazing how much good work goes on at a local chapter level despite the national body.

I am only a member to get the maintenance privilege....

[Sunfish]

My question would be; would even an amalgamated organisation be able to jump though all the hoops CASA will place in front of them? Safety management systems etc.... For a sparsly populated large continent.

[Old Akro]

At a national level it is a group of grumpy people who would rather squabble with one another that make a meaningful contribution.

Sounds just like CASA

[rutan around]

Maybe just move to the States and build there. If your pride and joy Innovation Mark I turns out to be any good it should soon be easy to move into production.

News item from yesterday's US AOPA E- Brief

Part 23 reform: FAA releases final rule on small aircraft certification (http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/iGaiBYommoCXliclCidaojCicNFgXe?format=standard)
The FAA has released a final rule that reforms small aircraft certification standards with groundbreaking new provisions that allow manufacturers to use performance-based, industry-consensus standards in place of the "prescriptive" manufacturing methods that have long hindered development of new designs and technologies, and caused aircraft certification costs to soar.
AOPA Online (http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/iGaiBYommoCXliclCidaojCicNFgXe?format=standard) (12/16),The Wichita Eagle (Kan.) (http://r.smartbrief.com/resp/iGaiBYommoCXlicmCidaojCicNPFcd?format=standard) (12/16)