Royal QLD Aero Club in VA

[BPA]

Found this on another forum, anyone heard anything?

24 March 2016

Note to Members – Appointment of Voluntary Administrator

Dear Members

I regret to advise that the Boards of Royal Queensland Aero Club Limited, Airline Academy of Australia Pty Ltd and ATAE Pty Ltd resolved earlier today to appoint a Voluntary Administrator to all entities within the Royal Queensland Aero Club structure. As a consequence of this appointment all entities ceased trading with effect from this afternoon.

This outcome is particularly disappointing given the substantial progress recently made towards achieving increased scale and profitability.

I would like to take this opportunity to record my and the Board’s appreciation of the wonderful efforts of Management and Staff, particularly through the many challenges that have arisen in recent months.

The Voluntary Administrator, Nigel Markey of Pilot Partners, has commenced the process of reviewing the position of the RQAC group and will provide advice to Directors, Creditors and Members and Students in the coming weeks.

Obviously this is an incredibly sad day for our proud and historic organisation. There will be a number of people working tirelessly in the coming days to explore all avenue and options to develop a proposal that will allow the entities to emerge from Voluntary Administration.

Members will be kept informed throughout the process.

Yours sincerely

Clif Hefner​

[Ndegi]

Just heard the same thing early evening, effective 1500 hrs today apparently

[glenb]

Without doubt this is hearbreaking news. As a Flying School Owner I can attest to the financial challenges of trying to run a Flying School in the current environment.This will just be the first of many. Unfortunately its too late and the damage is done. If this is due to the unbearable Regulatory Burden, and I emphasise "if" then CASA has an obligation to act quickly, approach the Minister and offer assistance as an Interim measure to ensure this is not permitted to happen. Quick action and relatively uninterrupted Operations will be their only chance.

[PA39]

What can you say? :( another icon hits the wall.

[By George]

Very sad. Professional outfit trying to do the right thing, nice bunch of people. I fear for this industry.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

So, how many 'Royal' Aero Clubs still going?

I worked for RQAC many years ago, for a short time, having started my initial training at RACNSW on Chippies, and currently have 'an interest' in RACWA., who appear to be still OK.....

Another one 'down'....Sad, especially for the 'troops'.

Cheers:{

[Dnav31]

All, i think there is more to this than meets the eye. Hopefully, creditors come out of this even. I am led to believe a maintenance organisation is owed a considerable sum. I havent had a lot to do with RQ in a number of years, but can't believe it has been driven down to thi point.

[chance]

A very sad day indeed. There will be many internal and external factors behind it. Internally senior management have wasted the cash on fantasies and the Board of Directors don't seem to have been up to the job to set the right direction and have adequate corporate governance over the CEO et al. Externally, Griffith University splitting the contract between RQAC/Airline Academy and Basair placed both companies at risk. I have heard that GU will go back to a single provider when the new contract is awarded in recognition that multiple providers cannot make enough out of the price that GU has screwed down with the smaller numbers.
RQAC can be sold by the Administrators as a going concern but it will depend on how the books/accounts unfold. Keep an eye out for the likes of Wagners from Wellcamp or the Qld Govt owned Aviation Australia who have been itching to get into flying training for years. Both lots and perhaps there will be others will get a technically sound organisation, with a well presented fleet and great systems for a song. The sharks are circling!

[glenb]

Can anyone give me any guidance on just how many actual schools have ceased GA Operations over the last 2 years. Ideally with a reputable reference, rather than anecdotally. Cheers.

[megle2]

Maybe GU will simply transfer AAA students over to Bassair
Then what's left for the circling Sharks

[Clare Prop]

The links with universities do seem to be a common theme in schools that have got into strife here. Also means that the smaller schools who don't want to deal with training on that scale can't possibly compete with what students see as "free flying" and the poor old taxpayer has to carry the debt of these students for how long? What percentage of them are in the industry 2 years after graduating?

Perhaps getting rid of the whole idea of government funded flying training to an elite few schools - who don't seem to be benefitting in the long term either - and having a level playing field in the industry might lead to a healthier flying training industry and therefore healthier suppliers as well?

We lost ACFT and The Aeroplane Company here, both great schools, both had been training Edith Cowan Uni students. RACWA struggled for a while. Join the dots.

The trail of destruction these failures leave is bad enough on a personal and professional level for the staff but also means the creditors have to hike the prices to the remaining operators to try and recoup their losses and the cycle goes on and on. It's not healthy. The government should butt out and put that money towards paying for things the country is short of such as doctors.

Best of luck to all who have been affected...hope some lessons will be learned so this sort of thing doesn't keep on happening.

[chance]

Megle 2 is correct. The VA means the RQAC contract is finished. GU will have to transfer the cadets to Basair, who initially will no doubt welcome the increase in numbers but down the track it will probably be their downfall with the rents they pay to The Archerfield Airport Corporation for the fancy new building which will not be big enough to handle the extra cadets (so more rent for extra space) increased landing fees for the extra activity and increased maintenance on the rather tired old Basair Fleet.
GU topslice the Fee Help income they get from the Federal Govt to keep some themselves and the poor old training provider has to try and make do with the screwed down contract.
Clare Prop is right. These university based courses are a thorn in the industry side. The cadets are sold a pup by the universities - the vision of the left hand seat in the A380. However a lot of cadets are just not motivated enough and are of mixed quality. Few will achieve their dream of flying for Qantas or Virgin. Many are just not good enough to get that airline job or any aviation flying job for that matter.
I understand that RQAC has first class systems and fleet so a smart shark wanting to get into flying training will not have to start from scratch and will probably get it for a song from the Administrator. If they are smart they will move from Archerfield where the AAC is just draining the tenants dry but putting nothing back. Keep an eye on Wellcamp west of Toowoomba if the RQAC/AAA is reborn with a new owner.

[TBM-Legend]

I don't think you can put the failure down to just AF costs etc. The boards and management of these type arrangements are "mates" and hire either their "friends" of go for 'academic qualifications'. What's needed are those who understand that these shows are businesses and need to be run like this. There is no substitute for business acumen and aviation {GA level} experience. Hiring ex-RAAF or big airlines guys is the kiss of death as they have no experience in the $$$$ bit.
I'm amazed that they get through the GU vetting for financial fitness and collapse with no notice a few weeks later..

[KyleTheAviator]

AAA are a really great flight school. Excellent staff & instructors. Planes well maintained. Its sad its come to this. I hope they can find some kind of private investor/lender to get them out of it.

The links with universities do seem to be a common theme in schools that have got into strife here

From my understanding, whats actually causing the problem is that the Government VET FEE HELP flight training payments are not payed up front, but in arrears. Leaving organisations with a cashflow problem. Even with a profitable pricing structure, if capital in the bank account runs dry, before the the next government payment, your going to end up in administration.

And the more students you take on, the more you have to cashflow out of pocket waiting for the next government payment.

Perhaps getting rid of the whole idea of government funded flying training to an elite few schools

I disagree with this. Its made it possible for anyone, no matter their personal financial circumstances, to follow their career dreams. Just like HECS makes it possible for anyone intelligent enough to become a doctor or lawyer. These professions should be achievable by all, not just the rich.

Secondly, from my understanding over the long term there is massive forecasts for growth in aviation, and therefore demand for pilots. we need to be training the next generation of airline captains for the future, not just a few rich kids that can afford flight school.

[Another Number]

I'm with Clare on this ... disagree with Kyle ... HECS/HELP and the whole "education industry" is completely out of control and bleeding Australia dry*!

I think that most objective assessments of the quality of those using HECS/HELP versus "self pay" (old-style) would clearly indicate the greater motivation, dedication and perseverance of self-paying students. However, it could be said that cheap employers may well have appreciated the glut of new students willing to compete on wage rather than quality.

(*Its amazing how such a massive con has continued and flourished for so long while the country is heading downhill under its debt burden... at least a reasonable proportion of the national health budget actually goes into health. The tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer funds the federal government unaccountably sprays out at the "education industry" is obscene, with a tiny proportion actually making a difference in education "outcomes" and most simply lining pockets.
Simple, though sickening, fact: in comparison to the bulk of the "institutions" which have been recipients of training funds, our very own, beloved, CASA would be considered a world leader in accountability, value-for-money and productivity!)

NB: I believe that many people in the WA scene are familiar with Edith Cowan, their modus operandi and the "quality" of some of their taxpayer-funded students.

PS: Its been a long while since self-paying students have been "just the rich" ... they're more often people prepared to actually work to pay for things (like training), rather than expect their entitlements! Easier to train, easier to employ, too, if you ask me.

[Ixixly]

Kyle, in regards to the "Shortage" or the increase in the number of Pilots required in the world, no offence but GU have been peddling that sort of crud in some form or another for some time now, back when I went there for a semester it was all about the Qlink Cadetship spots they had reserved for their students, whilst not exactly "Incorrect" it's certainly not the full story, there will always be shortages but they will be specific to particular areas, not across the board and you'll find the Europeans and to a slightly lesser extent the Americans are in much better positions to fulfill most of those spots due to the type of training they do (Ie, CPL + Airbus or Boeing Type Ratings) and their job pathways. Personally I got the heck out of there (GU) and could not have been happier with my decision.

The others have it fairly spot on in regards to HECS/VET Feel Help with Aviation, I've seen some of the Students over the years that have come out and given up very quickly when they realise the challenges required to be overcome in starting in this Industry. Whilst I'm all for giving those without the money to pay for it all upfront the opportunity, HECS/Vet Fee Help is not the only way, I personally had to take out a bank loan against my family house and pay it back myself, that was fairly good motivation and alot of others do it over longer periods of time or work for a couple of years first and don't end up with massive HECS/Vet Fee Help debts, Government Debt is the quick and dirty way of doing it IMHO. People have been getting into Aviation for almost 100years before the government started paying for it for us.

In regards to the being paid in Arrears part, that wouldn't have been a major issue with an institution like AAA (Or rather shouldn't have been), they were around before the GU stuff in other forms, their downfall was the usual for such a place and the way it was, pie in the sky ideas and trying to move too far too fast, been plenty of examples of that sort of thing all over Australia and I'm sure the rest of the world, some of their Management also had less than enviable reputations when it came to running the business and motivating their staff.

I should point out that these are my own personal musings based on my personal experiences in Aviation and in particular Archerfield and GU, though I'm sure there is a lot more to it all, there ALWAYS is in Aviation, too many egos often get in the way of doing things properly.

[Seagull V]

To Answer Ex Griffo


The remaining Royals from the 1920s and 30s
Royal Victoria Aero Club
Royal Newcastle Aero Club
Royal Aero Club of Western Australia


The Tasmania Aero Club, which also formed in that era as a State Aero Club but never took up the Royal prefix, also still survives.

[Clare Prop]

Not sure I'm happy for taxes to be paying for someone to "follow a dream" unless that dream is going to contribute to a real need in society.

Apart from people in the medical field, I'm struggling to think of any other training I want to subsidise...particularly if it means my business is subsidising a competitor who will lure away potential customers with the Great Lie about a "looming pilot shortage" (I remember hearing that back in the 80s and it's still not true) and then go broke, endangering those remaining operators who still have enough ethics not to use gullible students as a ponzi scheme and had the sense to stay away from those kind of contracts in the first place.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thankyou Mr Seagull.

(Not 'ex' Griffo.....yet....)

Cheers ;) :ok:

[Cuban Eight]

KyleTheAviator said:

I disagree with this. Its made it possible for anyone, no matter their personal financial circumstances, to follow their career dreams. Just like HECS makes it possible for anyone intelligent enough to become a doctor or lawyer. These professions should be achievable by all, not just the rich.

Kyle, I agree with your sentiment. However, the harsh reality is that providing a nearly $100,000 loan to a huge number of young Australians who will be competing for an incredibly small number of jobs, thus harbouring little chance of repaying said loan, is simply poor economic management. The unreasonably high number of VET-FEE HELP funded CPL students is a result of "education providers" peddling the idea to the government that fresh 150 hour CPLs are in demand by the industry... this is not true.

Yes, we are all entitled to follow our favoured path but government loans can not be indiscriminately allocated to individual dreams, there must be a competitive process of selection that maintains society's interests. For aviation, just like in medicine as you say, this has to be in the form of a strict number of government-funded student places that are allocated by merit. I guarantee you that producing more junior doctors right now will not improve specialist-level care, which is what we need, but will only bottleneck specialist training programs and impoverish hospitals with even larger junior doctor to specialist ratios. This is akin to providing so many fresh CPLs that nobody can get an entry-level job and progress professionally/technically to a point where their skills might be in demand.

This imbalance in government-funded cohort size to industry demand is a problem facing many areas of tertiary education from engineering to business; it is not just limited to aviation. Yet, the disproportionate cost of flight training to any other course, has created a unique bubble of funding for the big flight schools. Once the government awoke to this imbalance (which it just recently did after the VET-FEE HELP fiascoes in other fields), they began to limit the cohort sizes that they'll provide loans to. This effectively bursts the bubble that has protected AAA, Basair and others for so long... it was only a matter of time and now we see the consequences as RQAC group ceases trading. This is a sad event indeed.

[chance]

The Feds made Vet Fee Help retrospective because they got burnt in other area as well as aviation, so having to carry three months trading before you get paid is an issue for all flying organisations that rely on it including the likes of Basair which you would also have to be concerned about.


RQAC/AAA went to the wall because they burnt their cash on dreams of creating an Oxford/CAE/CTC. The CEO and hangers on consultants made endless trips to Indonesia and China and the USA, all a waste of cash and time up till the point they hit the wall. RQAC suffered badly in the hail storm of Jan 2015 and required major repairs to their buildings which the insurance paid most of I suppose , but then they burnt more cash trying to tart up the 80 year old Hanger 1 which is leased from the Archerfield Airport Corp. There seemed to be a huge growth in staff when the revenue in terms of the number of students hadn't changed much.


The Chairman in 2015 and the Board of Directors essentially gave the CEO a free hand and the trajectory to the end was obvious to any keen observer.
Poor management and weak Board Corporate Governance is the real underlying reason IMHO.


Too many snouts drinking long , hard and fast from the well, and giving it no time to replenish so that inevitably it dried up.
The hard working staff and students were probably largely unaware of it, so they have unfortunately have been hit hard and are the real collateral damage here as are the many other creditors who relied on RQAC trade to make a living. Lets hope they get paid.
The Management and Board will probably skate through the VA and possible liquidation and avoid any ASIC action and will no doubt crop up elsewhere in the industry to continue the train smash.
As a small business operator at AF I have observed RQAC over many years, but the last 2 years seems to have brought changes in the way it operated that the end was inevitable.

[BPA]

Have a look at the AAA Facebook page and you will see photos of all the trips chance mentions in his post.

[TBM-Legend]

The Board caused this sad demise solely. The CEO is on the Board and the others drank from the same cup////poisoned it seems...

Noone has any real-time experience in running this type of business. Like aircraft, business flies by the numbers! You can't kid yourself....

[Avgas172]

Unfortunately it seems to be the way in Australia at the moment, the wage paid to the 'CEO' of Aust Post is obscene, Westpac, NAB, Com Bank just another few examples of snouts longer than an elephants, and all the 'investigative trips' overseas without any monetary return to the organisations are running rampant in Australia at the moment.

[ravan]

The current CEO has not been on the board since last year.

[KyleTheAviator]

I think that most objective assessments of the quality of those using HECS/HELP versus "self pay" (old-style) would clearly indicate the greater motivation,Are we forgetting University used to be FREE in Australia for the older generation? But what now the younger generation are unmotivated bludgers for getting in debt tens of thousands of dollars to earn an education? Sorry, I dont buy such hypocrisy.

Its amazing how such a massive con has continued and flourished for so long while the country is heading downhill under its debt burden... at least a reasonable proportion of the national health budget actually goes into healthYou do realise the FEE HELP debt has to be 100% repaid, with 20% on top right? And its indexed to inflation, so the government actually make money from this loan...

in regards to the "Shortage" or the increase in the number of Pilots required in the world, no offence but GU have been peddling that sort of crud in some form or another for some time nowI can't confirm the data, but the forecasts ive seen say there is a need for 28,000 new pilot jobs a year globally. The world needs more pilots: 28,000 new jobs a year - Jul. 21, 2015 (http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/21/news/companies/boeing-pilots-demand/)

So i would say that government loans to train new pilots is worth while. Plus obviously over time the older captains are going to be retiring.

[megle2]

Kyle are you sure we get repaid these loans, I'm told if you go overseas for some years the loan is cancelled. Would think a heap of these students will do just that chasing the 28,000 jobs which wont be here in Aus There has always been a pilot shortage during my 40 years in av but I'm yet to see it

By the way from where I sit Chance has it summed up, I happened to be at RQ recently and was amazed at how many admin staff there seemed to be

[bmap]

RQAC gone is a sad day indeed. Ex employee due to bad management and attitude of NZ CEO. Yes yet again another Australian icon run into the ground by mismanagement and a kiwi. The ex board member the day he became chief. Sadly he was on the board in the first place. Feel for those with no Job and those out of pocket. Hopefully someone takes over with a clue and fires all the management friends. Yes the same people who used this organisation as their personal taxi and frequent flyer points maker. Should be locked up but won't will go on for being got at trying to make it work. Pfft should be laws stopping this kind of thing.

[601]

You do realise the FEE HELP debt has to be 100% repaid, with 20% on top right? And its indexed to inflation, so the government actually make money from this loan...
$40 billion in unpaid debt is certainly not making any money for the TAXPAYERS.

Maybe we should go back to the Flying Scholarships where you had to have made a personal investment into your future career in aviation by getting your PPL before applying for a scholarship.

At least it showed that an applicant had some commitment.

[Another Number]

Are we forgetting University used to be FREE in Australia for the older generation? But what now the younger generation are unmotivated bludgers for getting in debt tens of thousands of dollars to earn an education? Sorry, I dont buy such hypocrisy.Don't buy it - need a loan, perhaps? University was "free" for a comparatively short time - during which time there were still quotas for courses and entry requirements, particularly in the expensive and in-demand courses. While there were those who picked up degrees on the cheap, the economics were much more sound - remember, the Universities of those days were the real Universities, not the crud that switched their names overnight when the rules changed, or, more recently, the hundreds of swindling "institutes" set up simply to drain taxpayer funds (search "free laptop courses" if you don't know what I'm talking about).

You do realise the FEE HELP debt has to be 100% repaid, with 20% on top right? And its indexed to inflation, so the government actually make money from this loan...You do realise that FEE HELP has to be repaid only if you earn more than the wage these guys have lowered the bar down to?
It does make sense, doesn't it? Why pay for your training when you can work for the poverty-line wages you've created and not have to repay, while the guy who paid gets the same wage. But, you say, there's that slim chance you get lucky and get the 1 in 1000 decent paying job, or a trip up the ladder ... great - that's the real incentive, if you score an ultra-rare well-paying job, you can afford to pay pack the HELP. Nice bit of hedging!

[Jetjr]

Fed govt admitting now theres $13 Bill in inrecoverable ver loans currently

[wateroff]

Unfortunately RQ was raped long ago and used like a symbiotic host, with all assets rebranded.... Passed off as just a club. New students were convinced they were better off going 'Full time' through an Academy sic, robbing RQ of its successful stream of students and income. All eggs were put in one basket and it went down hill from there. Extremely sad. Hopefully there will be enough left over to have a modest fleet, a few good instructors and it can get back to being ROYAL QUEENSLAND AERO CLUB.

[Angle of Attack]

I didn't have any money to learn to fly and parents wouldn't pay so I got something called a job, and learnt to fly as I earnt. Took 5 years but so what still worked out. And no I wasn't handed a job it was an unskilled factory job that paid pretty crap casual salary. And I agree RQ put all their eggs in one basket called AAA and pretty much crippled the traditional member base. They were set up to fail years and years ago.

[Ixixly]

First off Kyle, Universities were free from a period of 1974 to 1989, let's not make it sound like it's always been free before the current generation in University now. Second of all, we're talking about Aviation Training here which has never been free except in the case of Scholarships or perhaps the Military if you want to look at it that way.

As I tried to point out, those Forecasts are extremely misleading and simply saying "Look, Boeing and/or Airbus say we're going to need 28,000 new Pilots in x years!" is naive to the extreme but don't take that as a personal sledge, it's been a line peddled for a very long time by many and sundry as a lot of the older blokes and sheilas here will gladly tell you and there have been few situations where it has actually come true and Pilots have simply walked in the door and gotten jobs.

You need to understand that a lot of these positions are in Europe and China primarily, which means they will be snapped up by those with the relevant Passports, something never gone into much detail when it comes to selling flight training to people. In Europe they do their training and almost always finish with a Jet endorsement such as a 737 or 320 and then go straight to a right hand seat in a lot of cases and usually have to pay their way at exorbitant costs to be there. The US is not far behind in these practices and will also account for a large slice of these positions. The number of these positions that will be filled by Australian Pilots I'd say will be a small slice.

Let us also not forget that it is Boeing and Airbus who keep putting out these "Forecasts" which are oft to change, they don't really care about the impacts, they just want to put out the idea that Pilots are needed so get people moving through the meat grinders ready to fill the seats they put together, a shortage would hurt them badly as then Airlines will be less likely to purchase Aircraft if they fear there aren't enough Crew to fill them, it's marketing for them. Also let us not forget that these numbers get higher due to people dropping out of the industry and needing to be replaced and you then need to question why they are dropping out of the industry, it's not usually because they loved it so much they couldn't bare it anymore!!

And don't go fooling yourself into thinking the Government make money from these "Loans" as others have mentioned the country is currently Billions of dollars in debt due to these loans, the money is made by encouraging innovation in the country and thusly hopefully increasing the number of jobs and people employed to raise more taxes, not in the highly bloated University systems and the money paid back through it. The 20% is also to cover not just the loan you've and others have taken out but also to cover for those who don't end up paying back their loans.

All in all, it is far more complicated than it all appears on the surface and Aviation is an industry that has a long and proud history of selling people on dreams and whispers.

[Cuban Eight]

chance said:
Poor management and weak Board Corporate Governance is the real underlying reason IMHO.

Maybe, maybe not but that's not for us to decide. However, it can't be denied that if mismanagement indeed went on, it was only enabled by the grossly disproportionate allocation of VET-FEE HELP loans to aviation students. Any mismanagement would have been a sequela of how easy the government made it to access the seemingly unlimited pool of loans. It was the VET-FEE HELP scheme that gave birth to these problems.

KyleTheAviator said:
You do realise the FEE HELP debt has to be 100% repaid, with 20% on top right? And its indexed to inflation, so the government actually make money from this loan...

No, the Government loses a lot of money from the current FEE HELP system.
No, the system is not designed to make the Government money; an educated population is their return.
No, a graduate does not have to repay their loan if they never get a job with their 150hr CPL or do get a job but never make more than $54,869 (for 2016-17 FY)... many other circumstances prevent people repaying their loans. This is not your typically secured personal loan or mortgage from a big bank. The Grattan Institute estimates 40% of VET-FEE HELP loans across all sectors will never be repaid.

KyleTheAviator said:
not just a few rich kids that can afford flight school.

Please don't imply that only "rich kids" succeed in aviation; that's tempocentric rubbish. Why are people always surprised by the amount of hard work, patience and sacrifice others are willing to put into achieving their goals, without handouts from anyone else??

[601]

free except in the case of Scholarships
The Commonwealth Flying Scholarships only paid a % of the cost/hr.

[Acrosport II]

Let us also not forget that it is Boeing and Airbus who keep putting out these "Forecasts" which are oft to change, they don't really care about the impacts, they just want to put out the idea that Pilots are needed so get people moving through the meat grinders ready to fill the seats they put together, a shortage would hurt them badly as then Airlines will be less likely to purchase Aircraft if they fear there aren't enough Crew to fill them, it's marketing for them. Also let us not forget that these numbers get higher due to people dropping out of the industry and needing to be replaced and you then need to question why they are dropping out of the industry, it's not usually because they loved it so much they couldn't bare it anymore!!



You've nailed it.


Make sure there's a 10,000 surplus of trained commercial pilots so Airlines can pay rubbish money with even worse conditions, yet still fill the pilot seats, ....the airlines will buy more jets.

[Clare Prop]

Indeed, I worked four jobs simultaneously at one point to pay for my flying plus being awarded the Amy Johnson scholarship which paid for about 10% of it; it took five years working in the industry to earn it back but I didn't owe anyone anything nor did I ever expect any handouts. I'd already worked and paid my own way through uni once to get a degree and then a career path good enough to pay for the flying. This was a time and place where you needed 700 hours for a CPL and wait nearly two years then beat many others for a place on a CPL course by which time only the most motivated were still standing.

Then a certain event we can't mention led to a number of Australian pilots coming over to compete for the jobs making it even harder.

Hardly a rich kid, only knew one of our "gang" whose daddy bought her a brand new Archer to build her hours in, then she got married and gave it all up...the rest of us who were working our butts off in second and third jobs to pay for it are still flying 25 years later.

[TBM-Legend]

The current CEO has not been on the board since last year.

Then he should ensure that the RQAC website doesn't show that he is [was]... http://www.rqac.com.au/board/ [tonight!]
But what was the Board doing? Operated without a proper CFO until recently too....it is [was] after-all a business not a social club..

[chance]

As a fromer member of RQAC in it heyday it was a great meeting place for the whole of Archerfield. Private Pilots were enthusiastic, the bar was packed and there were lots of flyaways and competitions etc. However as Dick Smith has pointed out the aerodromes of Australia are being denuded of GA. There does not seem to be , with a couple of exceptions such as RACWA the interest in private flying. It become rather expensive and the CASA regulator approach is strangling the industry under the guise of "safety". The pollies won't tackle any issue if safety is thrown back in your face. A bit like doctors "Shroud Waving" at any attempt to reform the health industry.


Its just become too complicated for many to fly privately, too many changes to keep up with - hence the growth in RAAus.


RQAC suffered from a lack of private flying and were left with little choice but to go don the full-time cadet pathway with the Airline Academy. In fact a couple of their clients such as Qantas, China Airlines and Boeing who did the MPL beta trial with the club insisted on not dealing with an aero club and hence the balance tipped towards AAA - thought it did not look professional enough I have heard. Likewise with GU.


What happens next is that you loose control of your own business. These big airline and uni customers end up telling you how to run your business and the trouble is they know SFA about GA.


Operating a business out of somewhere like Archerfield where the rents and landing fees are a major factor to be borne in the hourly rate of flying means that AF and the likes cannot compete in the private flying market with say Redcliffe or Caloundra where the councils charge more modest rent that the private owners of AF don't and there are no landing fees.


The private pilots and the pay as you earn to fund your CPL pilots are the heart and soul of an aero club.
The cadets from airlines and unis have no allegiance or loyalty to an aero club. You will probably never clap eyes on them again when they leave.
It was RQACs problem and one for lots of flying schools across the land.
That and the regulator are the big strategic problems facing GA and the leadership of CASA and ASA show no insight into the problem and seem trapped by their own paradigm and their RAAF backgrounds which are about as removed from GA as you can get.


If we could only undo the privatisation of airports and reform CASA there is a glimmer of hope. Unfortunately neither is remotely likely. Lets hope the likes of operators in non former secondary airports keep going so that there is somewhere for us to fly and enjoy it at a reasonable price.

[KyleTheAviator]

I have huge respect for anyone that took on multiple jobs, and slugged it out for five years to get their CPL.

But is this really the way of life we want in Australia? Sounds a lot like the private American system. Is it healthy (or morally right) to put a young person, at the whim of greedy private banks, shackling them with debt & compound interest at the start of their career? I look at the US private education model and shudder (as i do their private healthcare).

I'm glad we have social health care, and I'm glad we have a government loan system, that means we can fast track our education with a manageable debt. As someone who has high distinctions/honors in my education, i can tell you that i couldn't have excelled so well if i was juggling a full time workload at the same time.

I certainly DONT feel like im getting a handout, more a hand up. And i have every intention to repay my debt, I want success, I want to build my hours up and land a 6 figure job in the future. And every FEE HELP student i know feels the same. Sure there will be a dropouts (as with every profession), but there is no conspiracy for students to get qualified then stay poor the rest of our lives to avoid paying the loan. thats just silly.

Back on Topic,

I clearly remember a staff member telling my group "it's not important to join RQAC", which surprised me.. Personally i wanted to join. I love to idea of belonging to a historic aviation club. I still have my fingers crossed for RQAC, hopefully they pull through this.

[Ixixly]

Kyle, I believe the issue with HECs and Vet Fee Help in relation to Aviation in particular is more in the people that decided that being a Pilot looks like fun, get into the course, go through it all, come out in massive amounts of debt at the end and then realise the hard yards that are required to get into that shiny jet job that pays a 6 figure salary.

Student Pilots coming through these "Academies" through places like GU are not being prepared for this, they are not being thoroughly warned about it. They're not told about the years they'll likely spend flying clapped out singles, the years they could potentially spend without work trying to get a job, let alone a first job! the years they'll spend away from home and often in remote locations. These are things that come with Aviation in general and take a certain type of person to be able to put up with them.

They're not really being told in any great details about how poor the pay scales are, how they'll be treated along the way by an unfortunate number of their Employers.

This isn't me saying "Aviation is terrible, get out whilst you still can!", I love it and wouldn't trade it in for anything but I'll tell you right now that in the short amount of time I've been in it I've gone through a lot of rather low periods, I've seen many of my good friends, people far more talented than I, go through the same, get beat down over and over again through either companies shutting down, slowing down or just the industry in general being slow and it really isn't something they put in the fancy brochures or expand upon during your training but it is often a reality.

Is it the Life we want in Australia? people working hard for their dreams and being dedicated to those dreams, having that dedication become more and more cemented and requiring a lot of very hard thought and decisions to be made before taking it on?

I wouldn't want to see people not being given the opportunity to achieve their dream or being disadvantaged just because of the life they were born into, but on the other end of the scale is giving it to people so easily that they never really think it through and just go for that "Dream". It sounds so wonderful to use that word but often Dreams have to give in to Reality, and often that happens when you're forced to take a reality check.

If you want a really worrying thought for the evening, go find the latest statistics showing those with Tertiary Education Qualifications that are broken down into how many of them are working full time in the Industry that their qualifications are actually for, now translate that over to Aviation (Take it with a giant grain of salt as the figures will be worse for Aviation IMHO) and then consider how many people are out there with close to or over $100,000 in debt to the Government that aren't even using those Qualifications. Consider that unlike other Degrees that cost a lot less, those people have hit their maximum amount they can borrow on the Government Schemes and then wonder how they'll ever manage to bounce back and get requalified in another Industry now that they have no other option but to pay it themselves out of their own pockets.

And yes, I know that everyone there is brimming with pride and expectations and hope for the future in that shiny jet, most of us were during training, it's afterwards that the cold hard reality hits and it's then you really need to pull the socks up and start actually working at it.

Always remembers that Universities are only Educational Organisations on the face of it, behind it all, they're a Business and Businesses don't exist to hand out free rides, they exist to make money and that money is based on getting people into their courses and that means marketing and marketing always means gilding the lily and putting the best foot forward which often means hiding the hard truths.

[Clare Prop]

It is possible to become a pilot without saddling yourself with loads of debt Kyle, whether that be a government loan or any other kind of loan. eg I couldn't afford to even have my first lesson until I was 27 and had got the wherewithal.

The Fee Help system is a huge burden on the taxpayer and creates elite academies that still don't seem to be able to use that advantage over other operators to provide a stable business for whatever reason.

It is fair enough to pay towards tuition fees but we are talking about massive sums of money here for a career that didn't have a shortage before these types of loans were set up and still doesn't. If you look for example at the health system which I'm told by many doctors could collapse without 457 visa holders then why not invest that kind of money training for a career that benefits society (seeing as society are paying for it) and has a genuine shortage? Do the taxpayers really owe anyone a living to follow a dream?

Of course if I'd been in your shoes I would have jumped at the chance if it had been available then. In my time there were cadetships that I turned down because I saw so many others get stung by them. I just feel that these things cause a big imbalance in the industry and when you have lost students to a school that provides "free flying" and then collapses anyway it's hard to stomach. It's also hard to see good colleagues have the rug pulled out from under them like this and for what?

[flygirl2009]

Honestly folk...has anyone actually done any research on the corporate structure between RQAC and AAA - they are the same. AAA is only a business name against RQAC's ABN.

However, The separate company is ATAE were RQAC is only a shareholder. From what I heard on the aviation grapevine over the weekend is that Aviation Australia was actively stealing students, staff & contracts. Engineering teachers & managers have been head hunted for years.

In fact my research also found that Aviation Australia was set up in 2001 as a 'Pty Ltd' company. Meaning a company that is able to go into competition with other company's.

The administrator managing RQAC should pursue a misconduct action against the Qld Govt for going against their own 'Anti-Competitive Neutrality' policy as the Minister for Education is the responsible person, since that position appoints the Aviation Australia board.

Aviation Australia's is in fact owned by 4 departments of the Qld Govt that includes the Department of Employment & Training (DET)...the same dept who hands out the training contracts.

DET increased Aviation Australia's contracts each year, but maintained then later decreased ATAE & QIAE contracts.

Every other state only ever had one aviation engineering training provider, Queensland had 3 providers for 10+ years because Aviation Australia went into competition against the two existing providers.

It dropped to 2 providers in 2014...as Aviation Australia took QIAE's entire student base in June 2014, that forced QIAE into administration, in August 2014....lead by the very same teachers who were employed by Aviation Australia as of April of that year.

I also stumbled across information from a former govt. employee, where it was said at a Qld Govt state development meeting - 'haven't we closed those bastards yet' meaning ATAE & QIAE as they were the two founding aviation engineering training providers.

Everyone is assuming it is due to VET fee help & Griffith Uni...yes contributing factors...but did anyone bother to ask the ones in the know the staff, industry & former employees of the govt? Or if you are staff posting...you had a minor role & didn't know.

Aviation Australia have been given millions upon millions of public funds to dominate the industry. They have now added pilot training to their scope of registration.

In order for RQAC to even have a chance to compete against Aviation Australia they had to improve their existing facilities & gain additional accreditations. Same with QIAE they were forced into building a hangar at the Sunshine Coast Airport, as the same QLD government was to close Caloundra airport. (decision later reversed).

The QLD government has a network of numerous offshore departments, so they are told to market Aviation Australia. So in order for a provider to attract international work they must employ & fund their own consultants to find this work...all training providers with CRICOS do this, as RQAC didn't have the luxury of an endless bucket of resources like Aviation Australia does.

I even discovered, that because they are owned by the QLD government, they are in bed with Education Queensland, so all students in Qld only learn about Aviation Australia at school & not about other aviation providers.

Ask yourself why is a QLD provider setting up in Victoria when Victoria already have their own successful aviation industry? The TAFE in WA has adopted their training courseware and are paying a premium for this privilege.

Kangan & Padstow...once the biggest aviation training providers in Australia have now closed their aviation departments...why because of Aviation Australia taking Qantas.

So God help the Australian aviation industry now, expect more businesses to close their doors, as AA's mandate is to control the Australian aviation industry as a 'Pty Ltd' company.

[chance]

Sorry to have to say it flygirl but one would have to think that Aviation Australian would be the most obvious choice to pick up ATAE or at least the contract places the Qld Govt funds if the Administrators go that way.


In fact they may not even have to buy it as the VA may well simply mean that ATAE have triggered some contract clause for ceasing ops and all the students and funded places can be picked up by AA, in the way you mentioned happened to QIAE in 2014.


Agree about the non-competitive nature of AA (the Govt) competing with the private sector, especially when their shareholders (the Govt Depts) hand out the funding contracts. Its dead set wrong.


If they also get into the flying training side as well by buying RQAC/AAA from the Administrator they would be a category killer in the market and wipe out more flying schools as they would have a distinct uncompetitive advantage. And I don't mean just on Archerfield.

[Stretch06]

I have been asked to post the following to provide clarification that kyletheaviator is not the ex CP of RQAC.

The ex CP has been receiving messages via other means that has questioned the comments of kyletheaviator with people mistaking him for the poster.

Nothing against kyle or his opinons, but the CP of RQAC doesnt have a login and requested I claifiy the situation.

It is a very sad day for all the good staff and students involved in the situation at RQAC. I wish them all the best with the future. It they are reading this, remember you can call or message me at any time you want to chat.

Stretch

[flygirl2009]

Hi Chance, if you compare apples to apples, Aviation Australia has the same accreditations as ATAE, so only benefit would be any 'cheap' aged plant & equipment. Yes you are right, my experience with similar govt. contracts is that there is always an automatic termination clause, if that company was to go into administration, so those students on funded programs (such as the apprentices), would automatically be passed over to another preferred supplier. Their funding bucket goes with the student. Considering there are no other training providers now in the Aviation Engineering market place, Aviation Australia would be the beneficiary for ATAE's engineering enrollments. Chance, it is hard enough now staying afloat as a flying school in this current economic environment, so yes Aviation Australia does have a distinct uncompetitive advantage that goes well beyond Archerfield.

[KyleTheAviator]

Haha yeah I'm definitely not the ex CP of RQAC, just a former student. Still dont know how/where im going to finish my training :/

So God help the Australian aviation industry now, expect more businesses to close their doors, as AA's mandate is to control the Australian aviation industry as a 'Pty Ltd' company

Interesting post. Certainly doesn't sound fair, government competing with private sector, allocating it self funds/contracts. Definitely a conflict IMO.

[BPA]

Looks like changes are coming.

HELP, HECS earnings threshold may be lowered in debt crackdown (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/federal-budget/university-and-other-students-face-help-hecs-debt-crackdown/news-story/393410da373b62512d59df1df4e8b5d5)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

So, it does 'beg the question'.....

How many GA 'aviators' are earning in excess of $54K,

And how many in excess of $42K....???

And, who are still in OZ...??

Form a 'q' to the left pleeze....Oi said the 'LEFT' Bloggs....

No Cheers, Nope! None At All!!:uhoh:

[Ixixly]

As I said in my one of my longer rambling posts Ex FSO Griffo, the stats in general for Tertiary Educated people and whether they are actually working in the Industry that their Degree is for would probably be a good indicator, no use in a $60,000 degree in Engineering if one decides to instead go into the Hospitality Industry!

More specifically though, I would LOVE to see GUs own statistics on what percentage of their Alumni are working in the Aviation Industry full time....and then I'd like to see the real statistics :E

[TBM-Legend]

A GU student I mentored is now an FO on B777 at Cathay .

[VH-FTS]

More specifically though, I would LOVE to see GUs own statistics on what percentage of their Alumni are working in the Aviation Industry full time....and then I'd like to see the real statistics :E

Pull your head in. Every flying school sells the 'dream'. Love to see what percentage of any school's students are working in the industry. All I know is there are plenty of GU/AAA graduates working at QantasLink, Jetstar and Cathay.

[hiwaytohell]

Less than a year ago I thought ATAE was doing quite well. They had won half the Qantas apprentices off Aviation Australia and all Virgin's apprentice/trainees.
Plus ATAE had their number of funded places increased whilst Aviation Australia's were cut.

Sorry but the RQAC/AAA situation, as tough a gig as it is, is firmly at the feet of management and board!

[Band a Lot]

Many moons ago I did a pre apprenticeship in aircraft maintenance our class started the year with 12 people, 11 finished the year long course. About 60 motor mechanics did their pre appy course at same time next workshop all finished.

Of our 11 finishers 10 got jobs within 6 months max, 1 preferred the surf life style. We were told 15% of the motor mechanics got jobs after 12 months of finish &
heard no motor from them.


I know all 10 of my class completed their apprenticeships as we had 3 more years of Trade School together, I have lost touch with many over the last 30 years but I know at least 5 still playing the game, so only 4 I am not sure if they still are in aviation or not.


Due to our low numbers 11, our course was cut and never was held again - after 90% got lasting employment. The motor course still runs today at a maximum back then of 15% possibly having lasting employment.


Fact we had a far greater % and number of people (9 vs 10) gain an apprenticeship meant nothing!!!

[chance]

hiwaytohell.


Touche. A great business gone west due to too much focus on AAA by an incompetent self-serving and self indulgent senior management and a Board who were asleep at the wheel or perhaps self serving as a mutual admiration society. Maybe the Board was a house divided - refer New Testament Mark 3.25. or Abe Lincoln in 1858. Tragic but may be an insight into the dysfunction of the Board and Management.
Some savy companies will pick it up from the VA and do well I suppose.
A cluster.

[TBM-Legend]

Well said "chance">>

[rammel]

I was speaking to someone I did my apprenticeship with last night, and as much as I hate to say it... kids these days aren't taught like we were. We were taught proper hand skills and how to use competently each tool in our tool box. We even manufactured our own tools, a solder sucker and a tap wrench. Both of still which work today and they were made almost thirty years ago. My friend is still in aircraft maintenance and he is also quite confident that I could walk back in and surpass current apprentices and trainees. This is not a brag, but despair in where the industry is now at. I'm out of maintenance at the moment but I came through in the era of the LAME Fed Sec.

[KyleTheAviator]

For any other VET Fee Help students like myself, who has been invoiced for flights/modules you have not yet received, contact [email protected]

They provide an insurance scheme that protects students from all RTO's if they fail while you have unused funds. They will pay you the funds that have not been used.

Example: if a module is $3,000 and you only used $500 worth of training, then you should get $2,500 back (saving you from unfair Vet Fee help debt)

[Ixixly]

VH-FTS, that was basically my point, I did make it in an earlier post that they all sell the "Dream" to Students, Universities IMHO are a bit more ruthless at it than say Aero Clubs or more traditional Flight Schools though. As I mentioned the Educational Organisation is their face but at the core they're a business and a business operates to make money.

[Pole Vaulter]

After all the turmoil at RQAC/AAA in the last week those who are looking for the pilot supplies shop in the RQ hangar they are moving to the Annex on Hangar 5 and will reopen on Monday April 4. Just noticed the note on the door this morning.:D

[Another Number]

University, vocational training debts to skyrocket costing budget billions, documents show - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-06/higher-education-debts-to-skyrocket-costing-budget-billions/7302062)

:= :ooh::{:( :eek: :uhoh: :suspect: :ugh: :ouch: :mad:

[OzzieH4U]

$40 billion in unpaid debt is certainly not making any money for the TAXPAYERS.

Maybe we should go back to the Flying Scholarships where you had to have made a personal investment into your future career in aviation by getting your PPL before applying for a scholarship.

At least it showed that an applicant had some commitment.
Two problems with the scholarship scheme when I applied back in 1961 was that you could only obtain it if you were seeking an Airline career rather than one in GA and therefor you also needed a pass in at least one ATPL subject if not all.

We will never have a viable GA industry if everyone goes through the ranks ever upward to the airline industry where the folk end up with lots of Auto-pilot time and few take offs and landings they become so deskilled that many are hopeless when it comes to hands on either back in GA or in an emergency situation in an airliner.
Some, at least, still get back to stick and rudder at the same time as maintaining their highly paid job by buying a lighty of buying hours in one. If I wore a hat I would take it off to these latter.
Scholarships or the like need to be made available to those who are genuinely seeking a career in aviation be it GA or Airline. I chose GA and spent all my working life in Single Pilot operations or instructing

[TBM-Legend]

Some Singaporeans sniffing around the show today!

[glenb]

The beginning of the end of the Australian Owned Sector of the Flight Training Industry

[red_dirt]

Probably the Singo pilots from Oakey

[TBM-Legend]

The beginning of the end of the Australian Owned Sector of the Flight Training Industry


Australians only want to invest in houses, cars and holidays. We complain about the foreign investors in rural agriculture, buying our business, investing in Virgin Oz etc etc yet we won't take the plunge. What do we expect?

[601]

Two problems with the scholarship scheme when I applied back in 1961 was that you could only obtain it if you were seeking an Airline career rather than one in GA and therefor you also needed a pass in at least one ATPL subject if not all.

Wrong on both counts.

I told the interview panel that I did not want to get into the airlines and I did not have ATPL subjects.

I did get ATPL later in my career when corporate jobs came my way and I needed it for the LH seat. That was 20 years after getting my CPL.

[megle2]

Rapair Archerfield have 3 or 4 spare at present that were on RQ's line, try them

[BPA]

Rumour has it there is some interest from parties from outside Australia purchasing the it. I believe an announcement about the future of the Club/AAA will be made at the end of the month.

[Clare Prop]

I know Nathan, he is a great drummer!

Nocookies | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/higher-education-higher-costs-in-student-loan-scheme-nightmare/news-story/554e6761397f301657fd6d1a55ae2ce8)



Nathan Sproule is no outlier in the scheme of things. The 28-year-old Perth local enrolled at university in 2009, spent some time studying music, but then decided he was more suited to taking up a trade as an electrician instead.


But five years after last turning up for class at Perth’s Edith Cowan University, Sproule is stuck with a $14,000 student loan and little prospect of repaying it anytime soon. It’s not that Sproule doesn’t work, he does. But as an apprentice electrician, he earns $32,000 — considerably below the repayment threshold of $54,186.

Not just that, but becoming an electrician cost him an extra $6000 in course fees.

“I think it would be pretty difficult to pay back all that debt while making not even $600 a week,” Sproule says.

“And I’m a diabetic but not eligible for any healthcare discount so I’m paying full price for insulin.

“It would literally make it impossible, there is no way I’d be able to be an apprentice and support myself.”

Last year, 522,000 students accessed the Higher Education Loan Programme, the world class government policy that relieves the cost of tertiary education for students until they can afford to repay it. Sproule is just one of millions of former students with all or part of that debt outstanding.

This week, alarm bells rang out across the sector as an analysis released by the Parliamentary Budget Office revealed the size of those loans on the government books has blown out to a mind-boggling $1.7 billion a year, leaving taxpayers sitting on a predicted $185bn time bomb as the scheme screeches out of control over the next decade.

The rapid escalation in the total debts owed to government — and the amount that will never be repaid — was triggered by a series of policies instituted by recent governments.

First, was the Rudd government’s 2009 decision to remove limits on the number of students universities could enrol. This effectively allowed these institutions to accept as many students as they deemed eligible. This is known as the demand-driven system.

Worse still, Labor decided to allow students at private colleges access to the loan scheme, adding millions more to the debt pile in a national scandal that accelerated out of control under the current Coalition government.

The situation is likely be exacerbated, the PBO modelling shows, if planned but unimplemented deregulation reforms proposed by the Abbott government are legislated. Those would cut subsidies to universities by one-fifth, but allow universities to charge whatever fees they like.

In effect, that would give universities the freedom to enrol as many students as they wanted and charge them as much money as they liked, all backed by buy-now, pay-later arrangements, totally guaranteed by the taxpayer.

Once held up as a gold standard policy, HELP is becoming an enormous nightmare for the government.

At its simplest, it allows students to borrow up to $100,000 in study loans to be repaid once they begin earning more than $54,000.

Fuelling much of the growth was the uncapping of university places from 2010 onwards, which pushed student numbers from 308,000 to 522,000 last year.

Universities have not been shy in increasing enrolments, and the funding that’s attached.

The Australian Catholic University grew from 20,000 students to 30,000 students in a mere five years, a 50 per cent increase.

Even Group of Eight universities, representing a swath of the most prestigious institutions in the country, are embracing growth as one of the few ways open to them to increase revenues.

It is no secret that a significant portion of that money, which is intended for teaching, cross-subsidises research activities upon which universities rely for prestige and ranking.

“It’s in everybody’s interests to ensure that our universities are as good as they can be and that takes money — not further cuts,” says Go8 chief executive Vicki Thompson. “We have what is effectively a distorted funding system. The actual issue lies in the fact that we are underfunded for research.

“These funding issues have not gone away and if anything have been exacerbated by the demand-driven system.”

To rein in the growth of bad debts or non-repayment of loans, the Grattan Institute’s higher education analyst Andrew Norton last month suggested lowering the repayment threshold to $42,000 from the current rate of $54,000.

It is a suggestion that has caught the ear of the government as it works through what measures to include in next month’s budget.

With graduate salaries basically static over recent years — the average is about $55,000 for those in their first year out of university — and with a significant number of vocational students with qualifications that will not produce high incomes, reducing that threshold reduction would instantly increase the number of people repaying their debts by 50 per cent.

Some students think such a policy is a sensible suggestion. At the University of Melbourne, third-year arts student Corey Mathrick, who studies politics and history and plans further study in law, realises he will leave himself with “a pretty decent bill” by the time he graduates.

“I’m not particularly worried about it, it’s not going to be as if I start earning $42,000 all of a sudden the world comes crashing down on my shoulders,” he says.

“This is something I voluntarily went into, I want this education, society is paying for it, so it’s only fair I should foot at least some of the bill at some point in my life.

“Even if they lower the repayment threshold, it’s still going to remain an income contingent loan.

“In that sense it doesn’t take away the opportunity to have a crack at higher education, or any further training for that matter.”

While few are brave enough to call for the outright dismantlement of the demand-driven system — concerned it will push those less-likely to enrol in universities out of the system altogether — some call for it to be reined in.

There are concerns that students who didn’t do well at school are nonetheless being enrolled in courses they have little chance of passing, often allowed by the ATAR entry system that is itself under scrutiny from the government for being inconsistent and opaque.

Others say the labour market is set to be flooded by graduates with useless qualifications.

Among those who call for the system to be curtailed is, somewhat surprisingly, Labor’s higher education spokesman Kim Carr. He says that it is “not satisfactory for universities to enrol students they know are likely to struggle with university, only to see them drop out after accruing a debt”.

He says Labor would oppose any move to lower the repayment threshold for the loan scheme “on the grounds of fairness and impact”.

“As the Grattan report itself acknowledges, if the threshold is lowered it will be women, lower income earners, people in part-time work and recently graduated young people who would be paying more, sooner.”

Gabby Brackenbury-Soldenhoff, education vice-president at the University of Technology Sydney Students’ Association, says any lowering of the repayment threshold will worsen already-present disparities in loan repayments.

“They are struggling already and changing the threshold will impact specifically, it already takes female students three and a half years longer on average than males to repay loans, and it’ll make that problem worse,” she says.

Whatever the decision on what the repayment threshold should be, the government faces a more divided sector.

While fees deregulation had previously won widespread public support from university vice-chancellors, some held private reservations. And most have since reversed their position.

The PBO report shows just what sort of financial impact deregulation would have on the government’s books.

“People need to be very clear that beyond compensating for reductions, fee deregulation is an expense not a savings because of its impact on the loans scheme,” Norton says.

If loans to university students spiral further out of control, those made to students enrolled at private colleges have well and truly careened off a cliff.

Unrestrained by proper regulation, a number of colleges spent the past two years enrolling enormous numbers of students — often improperly describing the courses as “free” and luring potential students with the promise of free computers and even cash.

In one egregious instance, Sydney’s Empower Institute picked up $46m under the vocational loan scheme to run online courses for 4000 students. It managed to graduate just four of them.

During its investigation, the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission revealed Empowerr, which is owned by Jim Yang and his company Cornerstone Investments, paid recruiters commissions of up to $3700 per student.

In one instance, an indigenous man in Bourke, who did not have access to a computer and who had left high school in Year 7 with limited reading and writing abilities, was allegedly enrolled into a course while in a pub, given $50 and promised a laptop.

HECS-style loans to vocational students (known as the VET Fee-Help) increased 147 per cent per year over the last five years, the PBO figures show.

Much of this debt will never be recouped because students don’t graduate, are often unfit for the training in the first place, or are unsuitable for fulltime employment — let alone work that comes with a salary of greater than $54,000.

Melbourne’s Consumer Action Law Centre represents a number of students taking legal action who alleged they were misled into signed up for courses.

“Calling these debts ‘bad debts’ is a cop out,” says Consumer Action’s chief Gerard Brody.

“Thousands of students have been subjected to high pressure sales and poor quality courses that didn’t live up to their promises ... in many cases they should have never been sold the courses in the first place.

“Our research estimates the government could claw back almost $1.5bn if it investigates the legitimacy of recent sales in the industry ... all uncompleted VET Fee-Help linked courses should be investigated to determine if the sale of the course was genuine.”

So far no redress scheme, but the government has put a pause on any growth in the loan scheme for vocational students as it consults on redesigning the system.

Meanwhile, the ACCC pursues Empower, as well as three other providers, for hundreds of millions of dollars in funding made under the loan scheme the government will otherwise likely never see again.

The HECS/HELP scheme, introduced in 1989 by the Hawke government was designed to allow for more students from non-*traditional backgrounds to access university. The scheme, which was exported to countries around the world, has been a wild success.

But political tweaking and intervention have changed the original intention of the program as have policy changes dramatically increasing access to it.

If there is one sure bet for the federal budget, HELP will be tweaked, again. Let’s just hope that finally some real help is on the way.

[chance]

Rumour mill suggest the following parties are "sniffing" around to look at AAA and/or ATAE:


Airways Aviation (currently at the Gold Coast, but a big international group)
Air Gold Coast
Aviation Australia
Wagners
ST Aerospace from Singapore. Not much airspace up there to train in, a bit like the Singapore Defence Force at Oakey
A private group of RQAC members and investors - the best hope to save RQAC as the others would only be interested in the Airline Academy of ATAE(Engineering School)

[TBM-Legend]

So how bad are the books?

[chance]

Word from those who attended the first creditors meeting on Thursday 7 th April,the books are not that bad if a Deed of Company Arrangement can be entered into with a buyer. Seems the issue was a shortage of working capital to hold three months trading of Vet Fee Help before the Feds pay.


Apparently the big creditors are the maintenance firm Rapair (circa $300k) BOQ (circa $400k) which is for operating equipment leases which would not have to be paid if trading resumes, Archerfield Airport Corp (circa $40k) and a line of credit/overdraft with the CBA.


Staff entitlements would not be an issue if trading is resumed with a new owner. Plus the usual number of small creditor a few grand here and there. So good buying for someone who wants a turn-key operation, minus of course the current senior management and Board of Directors who made some poor choices that led to the debacle.

Apparently the CBA head office knocked back an increase in the line of credit to cover the Vet Fee Help. Who can blame them after they took on bath on Arrium Steel at the Whyalla Steel Works at the same time.


Reminds me of the old adage: "The only way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one."
We don't make much money but we have a lot of fun!

[zanthrus]

Anyone know if any investors are seriously interested?

[Propjet88]

Rumoured that announcements are imminent.

[C82R]

The Administrator has sent out the notice for the second creditors meeting to be held next week. Apparently they have received a Deed of Company Arrangement which has been included with the notice.

[Stretch06]

Rumoured that announcements are imminent.

I doubt there will be any announcements until after the next creditors meeting late next week.

[chance]

I understand that the Creditors meeting is Thursday 28th April.
The Deed of Company Arrangement apparently gives the creditors the best chance of maximising a return and returning the entity to trading. Liquidation will leave most empty handed.
Simple choice provide vested interests don't try and highjack proceedings for their own agendas of self-interest as some attendees holding proxies may not want to see a return to trading by the RQAC Group to benefit their own interests.

[chance]

Word around Archerfield is that the Creditors approved the Deed of Company Arrangement today. So pending the new company paying the specified amounts , RQAC will be back in business soon.:)

[megle2]

Back in business with what, I was told all the students / instructors simply switched over to Bassair

[glenb]

Any Idea if it was an Australian Buyer or overseas?

[wateroff]

They need to regroup and get back to grass roots flying training. Private, recreational, commercial students. It can all be achieved. It has in the past...it will again.... with the right people steering the ship. It is not bloody difficult!!

[chance]

The ownership details and what will happen and be offered in the future will no doubt be in the Deed of Company Arrangement.
Some previous staff may not be offered jobs back there and the GU cadets have spread among a number of schools at AF and Redcliffe but some have held off to see what happened not wanting to go to Basair etc.
Vet Fee Help and OS cadets may well be where the company is headed given the new owners connections.
Don't have to ponder too long to work out where the new owners come from - which country has been buying up big in Australian business lately? And why not if the Australians can't have the confidence in their own country to invest in it.

[peterc005]

Australians need to invest less negatively gearing over-priced real estate and more on innovation and building businesses.

[chance]

Crunch time for the Deed of Company Arrangement is coming up on Thursday 19th May. No staff have been paid anything yet. If the Chinese don't pay up its liquidation unfortunately.


Another Vet Fee Help disaster has surfaced with the Qld College of Australian Training going into VA with 450 students effected.


Yet another example of how hopeless this scheme is in its current form with the 3 month delays before the Commonwealth pays the providers, not to mention the courses not being targeted to areas of genuine need.
From my observations there is no pilot shortage in Australia so $100k sponsorships should be dumped.
Pay as you go pilots who fly when they can afford it have greater motivation and those and a smattering or ex ADF pilots will meet Australia's airlines needs adequately.They have served us well to date.

[Sunfish]

PeterC:
need to invest less negatively gearing over-priced real estate and more on innovation and building businesses.


Off topic, but that is not going to happen without a complete reform of the Tax system and financial regulation.

Innovative businesses built in Australia do exist, but unfortunately their business strategy almost always involves being bought out by a foreign competitor.

The latest, yesterday, was Hydrawise - an australian manufacturer of an innovative irrigation controller that connected to the internet, it adjusted irrigation levels according to real time weather information from your nearest weather station, you adjust your irrigation via a web page/subscription service from anywhere in the world and you could turn your irrigation on/off via an iPhone App.

…….Got the email yesterday, its just been sold to Hunter international (USA).

[Frank Arouet]

How does the Monarchy fit with a company being sold with "Royal" as part of the name?

[Flying Binghi]

via peterc005:
Australians need to invest less negatively gearing over-priced real estate and more on innovation and building businesses.

Spot on peterc005, thought the greens dont like small business and turnBulls banker mates will miss out on the mega profits from all them real estate loans. Caint see anything happening there...:hmm:




.

[Frank Arouet]

But but but.. I thought the Queen had to approve the use of Royal in the name. If not I'll be sticking it to "The Squadron" at Kirribilli. They charged me extra for that little service.

[TBM-Legend]

Today's "rumour" at AF is that the Chinese have walked after seeing the books>>>

[peterc005]

It's never safe to rely on Chinese (PRC) business men. They are often not straight-forward or transparent. Always need a Plan B.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

And you would recommend GA under CASA....????

'Innovative' & CASA = Oxymoron.......

No Cheers, NOPE, NONE AT ALL..!!!:ugh::=:sad:

[chance]

GA regulated by other than CASA? Seriously!
The Chinese viewed the books and creditors prior to submitting the Deed of Company Arrangement. How else would they have worked out what to bid.
However it is unlikely that the transfer of RTO, CRISCOS, Vet Fee Help, AOCs etc to the new identity could happen in a couple of weeks given the way we all know Governments work, so its possible that it will not be all done and dusted by 19th May.
Time is on the side of the new potential owners, so the creditors may be asked to extend the date and if they want any money should agree.
The bidders are probably still trying to figure out what to do with RQAC and its Directors. Do they support it or if they run into blockages from the Directors simply liquidate it and trade on with AAA and ATAE, the entities that bring in the income?
Time will tell.

[Stretch06]

So an Australia and Chinese flag is flying out the front of the RQAC building, is that a positive sign that the DOCA was signed?

[TBM-Legend]

So an Australia and Chinese flag is flying out the front of the RQAC building, is that a positive sign that the DOCA was signed?

Please explain..

[TBM-Legend]

DOCA signed and sealed today! Yes, the red flag stays>>>

[chance]

The RQAC Group will be back in business with a well resourced operation. There will no doubt be some students who will come back given the grumbles around the field, about how they are being treated by some other providers. Some staff will also be invited back most likely - depending on demand.
Don't be concerned about the red flag on the pole outside RQAC.
Ponder which flag flies outside REX.
Look at who owns VIRGIN. Who owns CAE OXFORD in Melbourne, Flight Training Adelaide or China Southern Academy in WA, Airways Aviation at the Gold Coast - the list goes on.
One can ponder and rave on about Australian ownership until the cows come home (also moving that way in the cattle industry as well) but its a reality in the global economy that Australia just happens to be part of.

[peterc005]

Too many people in Australia prefer over-priced negative geared real estate investments, rather than doing the hard work and taking a punt to build businesses that work.

I felt sick in the stomach when that clueless asshole Hockey made comments that led to the end of Australian auto production. You'd have to be clueless to drive a BMW when Commodores are such good cars. I love my Commodore.

How about Gippsland Aeronautics going to India after all of that work and achievement? What a waste that can never be replaced.

[spinex]

peterc005 I originally took that as a tongue in cheek comment and found myself nodding along as I read it, but on reflection I think you're deadly serious? Australia's car industry had been on the ropes for decades and anyone who thinks that you can compete in a small market with the sort of productivity they had, is dreaming. As for the whole negative gearing furphy, although some of the big end of town have done very nicely out of Sydney of late, there are a hell of a lot of investors out there wondering just when these amazing gains are going to kick in. Ask anyone who got suckered into the mining towns after the initial steep increases, how that property investing thing is going for them. I don't like seeing Australian firms, farms etc sold off either, but that's global business - no shortage of Aussie money in the US or UK for that matter.

[glenb]

Regarding The Australian Ownership. If an Australian Business cant compete in the International Marketplace due to external influences, it is somewhat beyond our Control. The important difference here is that we actually have GOVERNMENT Departments creating an Environment that destroys Australian Owned Businesses. Its truly absurd.

[peterc005]

@spinex - the benefits of local auto manufacturing are more then just financial.

The auto industry supporting 200,000 good permanent full-time jobs that are lost forever. Casual "service" jobs like being a "Barista" are quantified the same way as full-time career jobs, but don't have the same quality. It will cost more in social security for the people who lost their jobs when the auto industry was killed than what it cost to support the industry.

I'd also mention the engineering and technology benefits to the country. Something that can't be replaced.

The PM could have decreed that half of all government vehicle purchases must be for Australian built cars and that would have saved the industry simply and quickly.

Unfortunately Abbott and Hockey liked their European luxury cars and looked down their noses at locally built cars. I love my new Calais.

[chance]

RQAC members only forum next Tuesday at 7.00pm at the Clubhouse to give an update on the Deed of Company Arrangement processes with the purchaser, discuss future service to members and a Q & A opportunity.

[zanthrus]

How about getting the new owners to pay up what they owe in employee entitlements? Going on three months now......:mad:

[chance]

The new owners don't pay the creditors, that is the job of the Company Administrator who for the record is Mr Nigel Markey of Pilot Partners, 1 Eagle Street, Brisbane Tel: 3023 1300.
I suggest anyone having concerns should contact the Administrators as they control things until they pass back control of the company to the new Directors/Owners
Some greedy creditors have made ambit claims and these have to be arbitrated by the Administrators. Until its all settled, payments will be held in abeyance.


Out of interest, when Ansett Airlines was liquidated in 2001(versus the VA in the case of RQAC) the staff had to wait a decade for their final tranche of payment from KordaMentha.


The process takes time as there are strict legal obligations on the part of Administrators. Reference Clive Palmer having a go at them over his Nickel Refinery in Townsville.

[zanthrus]

Chance I know that, whatever. The new owners do in fact pay as they bought the DOCA from the Administrators who disperse the funds. Employees are preferred creditors ahead of the companies who put in stupid claims ( eg Griffith University). Employee claims are simple to verify so they SHOULD have be paid quickly. Makes you want to drive past and throw bricks through the windows.:mad:

[Cessna Jockey]

So who will go about managing the new establishment? Or has the dad's army board been reinstated to continue the spiral dive?

[chance]

Zanthrus: Desist from your emotions to throw bricks. Not very rational.
I tried to explain the process. Yes it is painful and slow because of ambit creditors : not limited to just GU -a maintenance organisation that has done well out of RQAC for a while is also involved.


Unless these things are arbitrated, the preferred creditors will get less in the $ for their entitlements - and that is not smart.


Cessna Jock; Dad's Army is still the RQAC Board unless liquidated by the new owners of ATAE/AAA. They (the Dad's Army Board)will have no place in the future trading decisions as RQAC (the club) is an indulgence of the new Chinese Owners and irrelevant to the future intent.


If you all have any RQAC clout or interest, front tomorrow night in the clubhouse at 7.00pm to learn more.

[zanthrus]

Chance I know. I said I felt like throwing bricks. Quite a different thing to actually do it.

And the maintenance organisation you refer to is RAPAIR. Why are you scared of speaking plainly? I am not. RAPAIR are responsible for there own incompetence in managing their debtors. Serves them right to some degree.:ugh:

GU is making it worse by claiming ridiculous amounts for loss of future earnings as a result of the cessation of trading. Completely unfounded and unjustified. They have not incurred these costs.:yuk:

Employees are the victims here. Banks, RAPAIR, GU etc will live on. PEOPLE need to get paid their entitlements. I don't give a F#ck about whether Pilot Partners (Administrator) are following the **** house law. My point is it is unfair, unjust and immoral not to pay terminated employees immediately.:mad:

[chance]

Preferred creditors such as employees will be paid first - when the funds are there via the DOCA with the new owners or if the DOCA falls over out of the liquidated assets, and that will not be a fast process.
RAPAIR like everyone else was caught unawares I would suggest - nothing to do with their debt management as payment up to the point of cessation of trading was within credit terms.
The GU Aviation program is on the road to nowhere. USQ are ready to pounce and already have snatched GU staffers.
People wanting a full time aviation career are now working out what a waste of time it is to bother with the GUs of the world. Most aviation uni programs are finding it difficult to sustain numbers now that Vet Fee Help has provided a choice.
I disagree with the implication that "employees" are the victims here. Everybody involved is a victim - all the creditors ,club members and students.
Its just a shame that the Board and the most senior manager were so manifestly incompetent that a 96 year old company has been run into the ground while the rest of the staff and students were seemingly oblivious to what was happening. A number of the keen observers of the club who could see it coming - it was just a matter of when it occurred when the big drink from the trough caused it to run dry! Too many snouts going for it.

[zanthrus]

Chance, I agree with almost everything in your last post. Let me rephrase that I think employees are the victims that are suffering the worst. Senior management (General Manager, Chief Financial Officer, Marketing Manager, Operations Manager) are the culprits here, they obviously couldn't run a piss up in a brewery! The sad thing is they will probably all get re hired to other companies on big salaries while the rank and file ex employees struggle with unemployment or sporadic part time work. :yuk:

[Cuban Eight]

Anyone who attended the member forum last night able to give their rundown on what was said? I would have gone if work didn't have me out of town for the week.

[chance]

The Deed of Company Arrangement and a separate Sale and Purchasing Agreement was signed in the last week of May.


Time frame is somewhere between 3 and 6 months to complete the DOCA
Purchaser is called Australian Aviation Academy PL
The Administrators have established a fund to accept payment and disburse funds to creditors
The name RQAC and the club memorabilia are not part of the deal.
AAA and ATAE have new Directors (do an ASIC search)
RQAC will revert to the current Directors when the DOCA is completed
The seller (RQAC) or really the Administrators have to transfer leases and all approval to the new company,e.g, RTO, CRICOS, VET FEE HELP, AOC and CASA Approvals, and all existing contracts et al .
4 Key Employees currently still around to hold the fort
The new company will provide "Club Services" like currently exist for 3 years as a service to the current membership.
RQAC is restrained during those 3 years from carrying out the sort of services it currently operates within 50 km of Brisbane and Toowoomba .
RQAC has to surrender its 96 year old AOC (older than Qantas)
The new company can recommence trading prior to the DOCA being finalised if it wishes to do so.
Probably lots more but that is what I have gleaned from a few of the members who attended - so bear in mind its not direct evidence in the legal sense but second hand.:hmm:

[megle2]

So there is nothing left of RQ bar its name and thats been completely trashed. They are effectively squatters at AAA until kicked out.

[zanthrus]

Yep, shame shame shame!

[chance]

Shame indeed.
The DOCA is Plan A - the preferred Creditors get their money and the unsecured maybe 50%.
Plan B - Liquidation - Preferred Creditors maybe 50%, unsecured zero.
So as hard as it is for many to swallow about what was RQAC - Plan A is the best deal.
Maybe after 3 years something of RQAC can emerge????
Lets hope those would should be accountable for what has happened will no hang around like a bad smell.

[Cuban Eight]

Thanks for the summary, chance. What a truly heartbreaking end to this chapter of RQAC's history.

[zanthrus]

"Lets hope those would should be accountable for what has happened will no hang around like a bad smell."

Wish their entitlements could be confiscated and allocated to the rank and file ex employees. It probably adds up to a tidy sum when you add up salaries of the GM CFO OM MM etc
These people are responsible for this mess, they should pay for it!

[megle2]

Surrendering the 96 year old AOC is a tragedy, pity they couldn't keep a restricted version alive on ice until the 3 years is up just to maintain history

[zanthrus]

Where is my monee faarkin? :mad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmxs4P1-9K8

[TBM-Legend]

No Chinese flags. Today French and Italian flags???????

No money either for a couple of colleagues...

[zanthrus]

Still nothing........Grrrr! 4 months.

[TBM-Legend]

DOCA expires in September...

Certain folks on a payroll now from DOCA aspirant!

[Cuban Eight]

Any word on how things are shaping up at RQAC? Any idea yet on how the staff, fleet or future operations will look?

Little to no communication to members but that is fair enough considering that employees must remain the priority. Hopefully everything gets sorted fairly for all employees involved.

[zanthrus]

5 months now since RQAC/AAA went into VA and everyone was sacked without notice. I find it disgusting that Pilot Partners (administrators) are still refusing to share details on the progress of the DOCA with the new owners. Ex employees like myself are owed thousands of dollars in entitlements and it is unacceptable to have to wait forever with no end in sight and NO MONEY!! Never ever do business with Pilot Partners nor with the ex management of AAA who are totally incompetent. :mad:

[Ixixly]

Be very careful what you post Zanthrus, if you're an ex-employee awaiting your entitlements, then anything that constitutes "Slander" could work very much against you.

There are only a limited number of resumes they'd have to check against your posting history to figure out who you are. I'm not involved personally but certainly don't want to see a fellow Pilot get stuffed over because of a rant on PPrune.

[zanthrus]

I don't care mate It is not slander if it is true.

[TBM-Legend]

It's September...where are we at with this. Seems weird that if the "new buyers" were keen that they'd "pony up and git 'er goin'" ASAP..

[Jabawocky]

I hate to drop the bad news but it is only September 2016.

Try researching other liquidations to see what to expect.

In a nutshell, move on, put it behind you and any money owed that finds you in the future is akin to a lottery win that you forgot you had a ticket in.

I know that sounds awful, but it is the only way to look at it. :*

[TBM-Legend]

In a nutshell, move on, put it behind you and any money owed that finds you in the future is akin to a lottery win that you forgot you had a ticket in.


Nothing owing to me, just a former long time member...

[Alfiee]

They have placed an ad for instructors on AFAP website.

[zanthrus]

How about paying owed employee entitlements before hiring new staff?:mad:

[Jabawocky]

Paying past employees is the administrators problem. Any new take over outfit has nothing owing to you.

I know you are peeved but it is not the new entity that are at fault. Unless it is some phoenix rising deal in which case.... :*

[zanthrus]

Wrong Jabba, part of the DOCA the new owners agreed to was paying employee entitlements. True the administrators disburse the funds but those funds come directly from the new owners.

[chance]

The DOCA 6 months is up on the 21st September. If the proposer don't stump up the money then the DOCA falls over and it will most likely be a liquidation scenario. If the $$$ are stumped the creditors will be paid in due course. The big question is whether the Chinese DOCA proposer company has managed to get other investors to pitch in to settle. We shall see......

[Jabawocky]

Wrong Jabba, part of the DOCA the new owners agreed to was paying employee entitlements. True the administrators disburse the funds but those funds come directly from the new owners.

Well that is exceptionally generous of them. If it happens.

[cbradio]

Any news? 21st September I believe was the day?

[megle2]

Crunch time more like November 21 so I'm told

[bmap]

Just in case this ends up duplicated I thought my other post died. So I made a phone call today to a company advertising positions for AAA or whatever it is called today. It appears they are starting of have already started. The same CEO who used it as his personal taxi and run it into the ground is still at the helm..so I guess we will see it back in here in no time. See link below.


https://www.seek.com.au/job/32073058?savedSearchID=9981746&tracking=JMC-SAU-eDM-JobMail4.01-3881

[chance]

I wonder why the potential new owners of the RQAC Group, particular the AAA part would want to pay out the creditors. What is in it for them ?
Why would they not just buy the key assets of AAA needed to run a flying and engineering school and just start trading. Is it possible that deals could be done through the Administrators to get control of the company and the amount paid to creditors significantly reduced. The whole lot seems shrouded in "confidentiality" clauses so no one seems to know what is happening. Its not looking that flash for the creditors the longer this goes on.

[jas24zzk]

I think you miss the point that the administrators work for the SECURED creditors.

You can bet your bottom dollar...............

The whole lot has been valued, and a fire sale value has also been established with the secured creditors.
AAA has made an offer above the fire sale value, so the secured creditors have counted thier beans and accepted the offer (read lower loss).

The unsecured creditors are free to bounce up and down.

Happens all the time mate.

[chance]

jas24zzk, I am sure we are all clear on what the Administrators are supposed to do. However the tarmac rumors at YBAF indicate that subsequent to the DOCA being executed back some months ago, the Administrators have progressed other undertakings with the purchaser that may well reduce the range of the amount available in the dollar to the secured creditors that they were expecting.
But confidentiality stops disclosure of any of these rumoured arrangements. Meanwhile Pilot Partners are still being paid to amble along.

[Trojan1981]

Any more info on this? Have things progressed?

[zanthrus]

Nope, looks like the new buyers have scarpered and failed to fulfil their end of the contract. May go to liquidation. Almost a full year now, disgusting mismanagement by the administrators of the DOCA (Pilot Partners).

And before anyone goes on about libel issues let me say that I don't care! The bastards owe me a lot of money and I will say my piece without fear.:mad:

[Trojan1981]

That's a real shame.

[bobthebowler]

I say the creditors should wind it up at the next meeting so the CEO doesn't get the opportunity to have his way a second time

[chance]

:sad:The powers that be are having posts of the facts taken down.
The facts were in a "notice to creditors" sent to members of RQAC and are therefore not "in confidence". Nor are they rumours.
The purchaser has failed to pay the funds by the extended deadline of 12 Jan 2017 and are not considered by Pilot Partners likely to complete the sales agreement which is now terminated.
Pilot Partners have no choice but to call a meeting of creditors to either vary the DOCA (if they have another purchaser up their sleeve) or liquidate the company.
The former CEO and his "holding team" have been paid out of monies lodged by the purchaser to date for quite a long time - all to no avail.
Any goodwill value of the Airline Academy of Australia which they hoped to continue I think has long evaporated.
Contracts they had with GU, USQ etc, have gone to other providers so there is nothing there. The fleet and Sims are owned by the banks, the buildings by AAC, so all that is left is a few goods and chattels which at a firesale auction won't amount to much.
The staff will get something out of the Federal Govt scheme if its liquidated, but unfortunately the other creditors won't be able to expect much. Like the banner of the Brisbane demolition guys of the past (Deen Brothers) - "we only leave you the memories"

[chance]

The creditors meeting on 13 March approved a new sales and purchasing agreement. The Purchaser has paid in an additional $ 560K (non refundable) making a total so far of about $1.4M (non refundable) to keep the show ticking over and pay Pilot Partners.
The purchaser and their third party guarantor have until 31st March 2017 to pay the settlement fee of about $3.0M to finalise the deal.
Inching closer so hopefully some money soon coming the way of the creditors after nearly a year since the start of the VA

[red_dirt]

Seems like an obscene amount of money for a flying school.

[holdingagain]

All the flags have gone

[bobthebowler]

Maybe they took the advice of the one person who voted to wind it up.

[chance]

The $3M payment was not made by 31 st March. A new payment date extension has apparently been set at 19 April 2017. The Purchasers are apparently OS (HK ?) trying to secure the funds.
Archerfield Airport Corp listed the former RQAC premises (Clubhouse, Hanger 1 and Aeroport) for lease in the Friday 7th April Australian and Courier Mail.
Will the purchasers kiss goodbye to the $1.4 M non-refundable they have paid to date or will they get over the line ?
Anyone's guess?

[Flying Binghi]

Listing...

Training and Maintenance Facility, 221 Qantas Avenue, Archerfield, Qld 4108 - Industrial/Warehouse Property for Lease #502355166 - rca.jll.com.au (http://rca.jll.com.au/property-industrial+warehouse-qld-archerfield-502355166)






.

[holdingagain]

D Day was yesterday, has RQ sunk

[chance]

Creditors meeting held on the 20th April. The Chinese have walked away and did not settle the $3M, having plunged in circa $1.4M to date which was not refundable (probably all gone anyway).
However, there is another offer on the table, from the East Coast of the USA.
They have to pay around $300k in 7 days to keep in the game, if not at a further creditors meeting about mid-May it will be wound up. The Aussie representative of the new offer is none other than the CEO who was at the helm of the show when RQAC/AAA/ATAE when into VA in March 2016!

[TurboProp2120]

Creditors meeting held on the 20th April. The Chinese have walked away and did not settle the $3M, having plunged in circa $1.4M to date which was not refundable (probably all gone anyway).
However, there is another offer on the table, from the East Coast of the USA.
They have to pay around $300k in 7 days to keep in the game, if not at a further creditors meeting about mid-May it will be wound up. The Aussie representative of the new offer is none other than the CEO who was at the helm of the show when RQAC/AAA/ATAE when into VA in March 2016!

I'm just not sure what the upside is to a group bailing out RQAC? Lots of $$$ and I can't see any benefit.

I would imagine that everyone has probably moved on so wouldn't it be eaiser starting a new school if that was your intension. Any thoughts?

[TBM-Legend]

...what is one buying here?

[zanthrus]

Step 1. Say to yourself, "Do not allow Craig Duncan anywhere near any business ever again."
Step 2. Repeat Step 1.

[wishful av8r]

This may have been mentioned previously so I apologise if that is the case but does anyone know how to get personal flying records held by RQAC?

[C82R]

I would suggest you contact the Administrator at Pilot Partners and ask him.

[holdingagain]

Wishful, how long ago since your training was active, if it's before about 2011 probably not. All AAA / RQ assets are being auctioned soon and I understand that more recent logbooks/records may still exist but I don't know for sure.

[TBM-Legend]

However, there is another offer on the table, from the East Coast of the USA.
They have to pay around $300k in 7 days to keep in the game, if not at a further creditors meeting about mid-May it will be wound up. The Aussie representative of the new offer is none other than the CEO who was at the helm of the show when RQAC/AAA/ATAE when into VA in March 2016!


more smoke and mirrors I assume!

[Whitey63]

Anyone heard how the meeting went yesterday? Was it wound up?

[zanthrus]

Nope. The merry go round with Craig Duncan continues.:mad:

[TBM-Legend]

What does this mean??

[Stretch06]

I am lead to believe that it means that creditors group allowed Pilot Partners to continue to find another purchaser for the Company vice go to liquidation.

[Ixixly]

Excellent, and their cash cow keeps on plodding along....

[Ovation]

Excellent, and their cash cow keeps on plodding along....

Maybe they cut their teeth with Korda Mentha on the Ansett liquidation...

[hiwaytohell]

http://www.graysonline.com/sale/7017064/boats-marine-aircraft/light-aircraft-flight-simulators-maintenance-equipment (http://www.graysonline.com/sale/7017064/boats-marine-aircraft/light-aircraft-flight-simulators-maintenance-equipment)


http://www.graysonline.com/sale/7017065/office-furniture-and-equipment/unreserved-office-furniture-it-equipment (http://www.graysonline.com/sale/7017065/office-furniture-and-equipment/unreserved-office-furniture-it-equipment)

[chance]

The Auction of Aircraft (10), Flight Simulators, Maintenance, Office Equipment is the be held by Grayonline on Monday 5th June and Tuesday 6th June from 9-3 at the RQAC Buildings.
Also referred to on Page 50 of the Saturday 27th May Courier Mail.
Looks like a bank has forced the issue to get its money back and is not waiting for the Administrators to continue to flog the dead horse

[Ndegi]

All the aircraft removed from the Graysonline site? What's happening?

[Ndegi]

OK, back on line now!

[edsbar]

I bet this is worn out ...Fellowes Powershred PS60 Paper Shredder Auction (0104-7017065) | GraysOnline Australia (http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0104-7017065/office-furniture-and-equipment/fellowes-powershred-ps60-paper-shredder)

[IFEZ]

edsbar - classic :D:D:D

[jas24zzk]

we need a like button for that one

[holdingagain]

Auctions been and gone, did aircraft sell

[BPA]

I see Basair are moving into the facilities.

[Ixixly]

Not surprising BPA, the areas used in the "Terminal" have always had a bit of an "Ad Hoc" feel to them, they'll definitely make good use of all the space there!

[chance]

Meeting finally called by Pilot Partners to wind up the company after the Yank DOCA came to nothing. Pilot Partners are trying sue the Chinese whose Aussie company is in liquidation and their guarantor, also in liquidation- go figure!
Bugger all return for the creditors as Westpac and CBA have already moved to sell their leased/loan equipment.
Memorabilia is stored in a room at the old RQAC by agreement with AAC and Basair the new tenant, and if agreed will be transferred to a new company (Queensland Aero Club - the original name before the "Royal" charter was granted) formed by some members of RQAC how will invite the old members of RQAC to join. Maybe a clubroom somewhere down the track at YBAF.
A long saga approaching the gestation period of a horses rear end.

[TBM-Legend]

so where is Crazy Craig hiding?

I'm pleased to see that the RQAC history will be preserved.. QAC :D

[DNO]

The preserved history of RQAC is now in a skip bin outside the main building.
Items such as the original incorporation certificate and numerous student records from both RQAC and AEA are there.
If you want to steal an identity there is plenty of information / documents that should have been shredded there.
Fortunately some previous members are searching through the skip and retrieving the more valuable items

[TBM-Legend]

Will anyone take responsibility for the demise of this once great club?

[holdingagain]

The Airport have been very supportive providing a secure room to store memorabilia where a lot of historical items are saved I'm told. The skip probably has a lot of other items not classified as historical but it would be good if these guys searching the skip found some more old records. It's a mystery to me why all the old RQ historical property wasn't able to be managed with respect rather than threats of disposal if it wasn't removed within hours.

[Fris B. Fairing]

It's a mystery to me why all the old RQ historical property wasn't able to be managed with respect rather than threats of disposal if it wasn't removed within hours.

Invariably when bean-counters become involved, respect is the least of their concerns. It's heartening that there are good people who appreciate the value of this material

[Whitey63]

Does anyone know the outcome of the creditors meeting on the 18th July?

[chance]

The meeting resolved to wind up RQAC .
The stuff that ended in the skip occurred because not all the memorabilia were stored in the one place and when AAC and Basair took the keys and wanted all the stuff removed on 24 hours notice - a job for which 2-3 people turned up to do, the other stuff was then ditched by third parties unaware of its significance.
The memorabilia is to go to the new "Qld Aero Club" an entity formed by some RQAC members.
The liquidation could take up to five months, unless another party comes along with yet another DOCA proposal.

[Whitey63]

Thanks for that confirmation

[chance]

First open meeting of the Queensland Aero Club, which now has possession of the memorabilia, is set down for Saturday 5th August, 2017 at the Flying Fighters Hanger, 400 Wirraway Drive , Archerfield at 10.00 am. Aim is to set a way forward to continue the tradition of RQAC. All current and past members of RQAC are invited and encouraged to attend along with anyone else keen on joining the new Club which will be a member based organisation like RQAC.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Despite earlier assurances that RQAC memorabilia would be safeguarded, I am hearing that items thrown into a skip included a framed OBE. :ugh:

[StallsandSpins]

Are there any pictures of Miles Falcon AAT? it was originally imported by the RQAC in the 30's. Unfortunately im in melb otherwise i'd happily sift through the skip!

[Fris B. Fairing]

Are there any pictures of Miles Falcon AAT?

It's probably too late to ponder the contents of a skip but there are photos of VH-AAT on Eddie Coates' site:

VH-AAT (http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austa/vhaat.html)

[holdingagain]

Frisby, there was no assurance that all items of historical significance would be safe guarded. More like what could be saved was saved given the sudden demands to vacate the premises.

The infamous skip was already half full when the band of helpers arrived however a lot of people went through it

If there was a framed QBE ( original? ) who has it now

The new RQ may have a home at Flying Fighters on the west side of the field

For 97 years of trading there wasn’t as much as you would think in memorabilia
One could ask where it went over the years