Blood pressure limits and airlines (Ryanair etc.)

[_niko_]

I'm going to finish my pilot studies soon. Today I did my first Medical 1 renewal and everything was okay and within limits. Only concern is my blood pressure even though it was within limits too. Today it was 150/90. I have BP monitor at home and during last two weeks I did measurements in the morning and in the evening. I got average of something like 125-130/80-85 which looks pretty okay to me. It seems like that I'm suffering from white coat syndrome but anyway I think that my bp is a bit elevated when compared to optimal.

After finishing studies I'm going to start job hunt and my question is the following. I know that the official Medical 1 limits are quite high 165/95 but is there more restrictive limits by the airlines in general or is it just enough to have valid Medical 1(bp below 165/95)? I have heard that some flag carrier airlines for example may have their own limits. Is that true? Are the airlines interested in seeing anything else than the valid Medical 1 certificate? Why I am asking this is that I just want to make sure that my BP levels are not going to be a problem when hunting my first job or job at all in the future. I have discussed this with my AME but for him it is just enough to get the levels below official limits. Now I need answers from the airlines perspective. What are the limits for example for Raynair? What is the airlines attitude against BP medication in general? Thanks!

[parkfell]

You need to ask why is it so high?
Your bp monitor at home might not be the quality used by doctors.

Seek medical advice on reducing it. It only gets worse with age

[Pace]

You need to ask why is it so high?

I think its more than the poster who needs to ask that as not even the medical world understand BP.
Doctors love to measure something and stick you on lifelong damaging pills
If its any consolation Astronauts hit figures of 220 / 120 on takeoff

[oldpax]

Home bought ones I am told do not have the same efficiency as commercial ones used in hospitals.I use a Microlife and I always take three or four readings and use the last one.I hover about 130/70 which is not bad for my age although I could shed a little weight!

[jack11111]

Next time you go to the doctor, take your home BP kit with you and compare.
The last BP reading is always the lowest, right?

[Radgirl]

Before this goes into another attack on drugs, I presume the poster is relatively young, so the risk of hypertension - just what we call high blood pressure - is low

It is always a good idea if someone says your blood pressure is high to get your own machine. In europe those made by Omron are considered reliable - so are many others, and if you buy from a chemist rather than a Chinese website you should be OK. Buy the cheapest as more expensive models just have unnecessary extras like a memory. Take your blood pressure at different times and write down the result, the time and what you are doing!!!

Yes we all know astronauts can get their pressure up on launch as does shouting at your husband, sex and running a marathon, but all we are interested in is the LOWEST at rest on a good day. If the diastolic (lower number) is less than 80 you have no issues. If it is in the 80s and you are 'middle aged' OK

If it is higher, you should indeed ask your doctor WHY and he will exclude all sorts of rare causes. Most people will not have a rare cause :\ so doctors call it essential hypertension (high blood pressure with no specific cause, due to hardening of the arteries)

I wont prolong this post with treatment (lose weight, less salt, exercise and then drugs) but I doubt an airline will not accept a regulator's standards. So Niko, you seem to have proven you DONT have high blood pressure from your 'average' readings. I would stop worrying before it does go up:ok:

[failed2beApilot_2K]

A lot of people have problems with their blood pressures not necessarily high but also low. High blood pressure readings changes within seconds believe it or not and the white coat syndrome is very common. I've been told the home reading should be around >115/75 (because you need to add 5mmHg to both systolic and diastolic) and at the GP's surgery >130/80.Take the last 2 / 3 readings, average. Sometimes we are too anxious about things and can't help our minds wonder.Hence the crazy readings. I would go to your GP first and let them to the necessary tests, etc. As far as I understand, for the CAA, if BP can be controlled, i.e. by drugs, is okay, your AME should be know better. Just to let you know, a lot of pilots have high blood pressure currently working for all sorts of airlines. They (the airlines) have their own measures to support their staff with conditions like this. Putting jobs one side, i would first do something about it to give you a peace of mind and if it is a problem best to take the measures to control and protect.

[Radgirl]

failed2beApilot_2K (http://www.pprune.org/members/134800-failed2beapilot_2k)

I think your arrows are going in the wrong direction. :ok:

If you buy a 'proper' machine there is no correction factor

Do NOT do tests first - we get what is called false positives and then you lose your license, have unnecessary investigations, come to harm .........

Just buy a £20 machine, take your blood pressure, if it is OK, stop posting.

Me included

[rifruffian]

I have been caught up awhile in medical supervision of my BP.

A few things puzzle me. If BP monitor used in doctor surgery and BP monitor used at home (as retailed in chemist shop).....if both use same technology why is the home measurement less highly regarded ?....,Are doctors monitors frequently serviced and calibrated ?

It seems as soon as a target low reading is achieved, patient and doctor are satisfied.....and this target reading often achieved after 3 or four measures over a period of a few minutes.
Why should the recent higher measures be seemingly disregarded ?

I always put the cuff on the same part of body (upper arm) but I find that body posture has effect on the reading. How important is that ?

[obgraham]

Having gone through all this recently, I've found that an inexpensive self-monitoring BP cuff is just as accurate as a more "professional" one (yes, I have those also, but it's awkward to take your own BP with one).

You just need to be consistent regarding positioning of your arm and the cuff.

However: forget the wrist-mounted monitors. They're all over the place.

[Pace]

Radgirl

Would I attack the drug industry ? ;)

I was purely trying to make the guy feel better by telling him about the astronauts

Interesting the lack of gravity and normal pooling of blood to the lower extremities doesn't exist in space with a resulting increase in blood pressure within the head

I also take the point of the importance of where you attach the cuff

My AME is as blind as a bat and last medical stuck the cuff around the beautifully sculptured armrest to the chair I was sitting on
he then exclaimed what an odd reading and passed me anyway after a few pounds had exchanged hands :ok:

Seriously being obsessed with it all isn't the best thing as careful what you wish for or not as the case maybe

[Radgirl]

Touche Pace

Good to hear from you again

Couldnt agree more!! Everyone needs to stop panicking about blood pressure. Any old machine (we medics dont sniff at them as we are so mean we normally scrounge second hand ones!!!) and keep taking it until it is low enough... :D

The space medicine bit is fascinating - there have been some superb lectures at the Royal Aeronautical Society - we really are at the dawn of understanding what happens in space. The numbers I have seen at launch are FAR higher than your post, but the real interest is in protracted space travel. Now there's another thread...

[800driver]

30 years ago I went for my initial class 1 and my blood pressure was high. After a bit of a lie down it dropped to acceptable levels and the class one was issued. Needless to say every time I go to the doc's for a medical the bp is high. But readings at home a good. Some 30 years later I've had to go onto bp medication and now bp at doc's and home is very good. So the morel of the story is don't worry. As long as you have a class one the airlines don't really care about your bp. As I side note I told my airline I am now on bp tablets and they've been more than helpful in a number of ways. Even offered no earlies. Tempting as it is I'm happy to keep a normal roster pattern.

[gingernut]

get their pressure up on launch as does shouting at your husband, sex and running a marathon

Love to know which order I have to do them in.

Radgirl is spot on.

The job of the AME is to try and negate the risk of you suddenly dropping from the sky, so it's likely he's working to slightly different parameters than the GP/Primary Care Team, who are trying to manage your risk over a lifetime.

Those in aviation, for very good reasons, like working with absolute figures, it's not always that simple in health care.

If you are worried about a "one off" bp reading, it's worth getting your physician to strap you up to a 24hr machine.

Mine revealed that I had a raised blood pressure for three x five minute periods during the 24 lour period, once when I walked into the front door of the docs, once when I walked into his surgery, and once during coitus. (Okay, one was only for a three minute period.) The rest of the time, I was as boring as the general population.

The algorithms that recommend management are on the NICE website.

[Pace]

Gingernut

One surgery Had the hottest nurse on the planet! I could not get a low reading with her no matter how hard I tried :E
It was all Astronaut stuff

[gulfairs]

Bp.
I have had my licence suspended about once every 5 years since i was 30 years old. Always because of hi bp
i am now 81 and still going strong, so in my humble opinion, there is too much hype in bp reading.
I add that my pulse rate is and always has been between 35 and 50 bpm(resting)

[Pace]

Gulfairs

GPs love to measure things and anything over a ton like in a car :mad:My Grandfather had HBP and died at 96 in those days they had no fancy pills to pop

[Stan Woolley]

I think its more than the poster who needs to ask that as not even the medical world understand BP.
Doctors love to measure something and stick you on lifelong damaging pills
If its any consolation Astronauts hit figures of 220 / 120 on takeoff



I had a nasty stroke five years ago, the 'culprit' according to the docs was blood pressure. I am more inclined to believe that it was caused by stress, as was my raised bp.

What is stress? That's a very interesting question.

For me, I can relate to an animal pacing back & forth in a cage, that is how I felt for many years. If anyone feels the same way, I recommend that you get 'out' no matter what. He stupid thing is that I was caged by my own mind, while all the time having a key.

This leads to another more interesting question. Can we get 'out' while remaining in the cage?

[Pace]

Stan I also know someone with Low blood pressure who suffered a nasty stroke. So its not just about the pressure but also weaknesses in blood vessels and other things.
A good friend son of 11 also had a nasty stroke
It maybe even be natural for larger (not fat) people with larger blood vessels and stronger hearts to have normally higher readings on the basis that a strong pump will cause higher readings than a small weaker pump
I noted that small men are more likely to get blocked arteries purely on the diameter of blood vessels.
I personally do not believe you can classify individuals in a mass and have one rule for all
But yes the higher the pressure the more likely you are to get a burst.
Again I am always suspicious of judgements made on topics which are not fully understood by the medical world and BP and what controls it is one
I stress I am not medically qualified just interested and always have been :ok: I pop in here as a layman from time to time to keep the experts honest but I have very limited knowledge :E So mainly to challenge

[Stan Woolley]

It's been a big 'awakener' for me. It's been interesting.

I've let a lot go, it's the only way. :ok:

[rifruffian]

Why should a home measurement be regarded as unreliable compared to a surgery measurement ?

Is the technology of a surgery measuring device different to that of a home device ? I do not think so.

Is a surgery device frequently recalibrated ? I do not know.

I have been advised of high bp in surgery and offered medication. At home, well rested and relaxed, I can see text book (normal values of my BP).

At surgery, three or four measurements are sometimes taken to hope for something like 120/80. Well supposing that measure is once achieved.....what about the rest of our day to day activities when bp is well elevated ?

So far reading texts and asking questions has not enlightened me.

[Radgirl]

The problem we have with 'home measurement kits' is that we dont know their provenance. They may have come from the far east and be rubbish. But most machines you buy in well known high street pharmacists, using a proper cuff around the upper arm are as reliable as anything you find in a surgery or outpatients. IMHO far more so!

All the technology is the same if electronic and if 'manual' there is none! The only exception is the super duper devices on anaesthetic machines and ITU monitors which have artifact recognition and rejection

I suspect surgery devices are never serviced. Indeed hospital ones are merely checked for electrical safety.

All we need to know is the lowest resting blood pressure. If it is in range you dont have hypertension. So white coat syndrome or activity that raises your blood pressure, no matter how much, is irrelevant. Indeed it is normal. Your doctor is doing multiple measurements as just one 'normal' one proves you are OK. Now run a marathon and it will shoot up as that is a normal physiological response that wont in itself cause any harm. But if the resting BP is really raised it can cause heart attacks or strokes over a period of time. We now know that period is months to years, so out comes the prescription pad. In the old days we used to give intravenous drugs and panic. That is now known to be bad medicine

Simple really - hope that helps!

[rifruffian]

yes radgirl that helps A LOT, thank you.

[gingernut]

In the UK, some bloke comes around about once every year or so and calibrates our measuring equipment, and put's a sticker on it, saying it needs recalibrating in another year.

I've never seen anyone ever take any equipment away. He's a very cheerful man, and always gives me a smile and a wave as he drives away in his Mercedes.

I think he has a brother who does the plug sockets a few months later.