Jetconnect vs Jetstar First Officer

[sahni]

Has anyone been to either Jetconnect or Jetstar for interviews in the recent months? How much do T&C differ if you get hired as FO, and how do they handle type rating cost etc. if joining non-type rated?

[Requestflyby]

Not sure about jetconnect, but do you mean Jetstar Australia on the EBA. Most FOs anywhere between 140 and 180k depending on what overtime/Overnight allowances/Day Off payments they are getting.

[Hold_Short]

I don't know much about the Jetstar conditions, however I completed a Jetconnect interview and was shocked at what I heard. Give them 17k upfront then go and put yourself up in Melbourne while you do the TR. Fly Auckland do a few weeks of ground training and then start your line flying about 6-8 weeks after commencement. ALL WHILE NOT GETTING PAID. I couldn't believe my ears when they told me that. Although you get the 17k back when your CTL, the fact of the matter was no pay for up to 11 weeks (rough guide depending on how quick they get you through the system). Then they bond you for 2 years. How can anyone afford to do that? I did not want to condone that type of treatment so I said thanks but no thanks.

My personal opinion is you should at least offer a training wage to feed yourself. Not much to ask. Again, I'm not sure what Jetstar do, so I can't offer my experience.

[sahni]

Thanks for your replies! So to summarize your feedback about Jetconnect:

- They ask to contribute to TR with option to refund if CTL
- No pay during sim/line training
- No accommodation/meal allowance while in MEL for training
- Bond for 2 years after CTL

Anyone here done all that, and working for Jetconnect :ooh:

[Corkey McFuz]

I suppose the JetConnect way of doing things is a lot "riskier" as if you fail your training (which some have)


So why have some failed the training ? Is it inadequate ? For goodness sake the rest of the world out side NZ and Australia have pilots flying these same aircraft with no experience fresh out of school. Surely with some training most pilots with a background in commercial aviation can do it ?

I have heard from a few mates there that they are / will be getting desperately short of crew yet won't take anyone with less than Dash 8 sized experience (glass cockpit version). This may have links from 19 seat drivers failures in the past...

Supposedly there aren't that many in the CV pile as historically majority came from Air Nelson / Mt Cook but now they all gone to fly Air NZ jets offering a much much better deal.

Even advertising on Seek. Must be starting to get thin.

But what are they playing at ?

[Ollie Onion]

They are very similar contracts, probably the J* one just edges out the Jetconnect.

J Connect $97k + retention = $108 k
J* $105k

5 weeks annual leave for both.
50% flight hours for paxing with J*, nothing for Jet Connect.
Overtime for both paid over 65 hours, J* $132 / hr and Jetconnect $124 / hr.

At this stage the type rating is a time bond with Jetstar NZ, be aware though that the J* NZ contract is under negotiation with the company wanting to re-introduce salary sacrifice.

Day off payments for J* FO $600 per day, Jet Connect is $250 per day.

It's really just a guess as to which is the better job, in the future Jetstar and / or Jetconnect may secure long haul flying or access to the parent company, or they may remain the poor cousins in that respect, you just don't know. Jetconnect involves lots of night stops, there are not many at all with Jetstar.

[Vetical Limit]

There is a lot riding on this upcoming contract negotiation for Jetconnect. Have heard that plenty in both Captain and FO ranks will be leaving in droves if pay and lifestyle conditions aren't dramatically addressed.

[viv]

If this does occur, hopefully the Tasman flying program will be absorbed into its rightful place, within Qantas mainline.

[puff]

Don't disagree viv - but hard to compete with NZ/VA/JQ when they have AKL/CHC based crew - all working in NZ $ and contracts when QF would be paying AUD contracts, with heaps of overnights in AKL/CHC every night, or paying AUD contracts with NZ bases. With the time zone difference tasman flying has to be based ex NZ, doesn't work ex AUS.

[Ultergra]

They are very similar contracts, probably the J* one just edges out the Jetconnect.

J Connect $97k + retention = $108 k
J* $105k

5 weeks annual leave for both.
50% flight hours for paxing with J*, nothing for Jet Connect.
Overtime for both paid over 65 hours, J* $132 / hr and Jetconnect $124 / hr.

At this stage the type rating is a time bond with Jetstar NZ, be aware though that the J* NZ contract is under negotiation with the company wanting to re-introduce salary sacrifice.

Day off payments for J* FO $600 per day, Jet Connect is $250 per day.

It's really just a guess as to which is the better job, in the future Jetstar and / or Jetconnect may secure long haul flying or access to the parent company, or they may remain the poor cousins in that respect, you just don't know. Jetconnect involves lots of night stops, there are not many at all with Jetstar.


Wow, this guy really has no idea what he's talking about when he talks about JQ:
Base pay: wrong
Annual leave: wrong
Overtime trigger: wrong
Day off payments: wrong
Overnights: wrong.

Base pay is a lot higher. Unless you're a 787 SO

Annual leave is 6 weeks.

Overtime trigger is 75 hours

Day off payment is absolute minimum $600. Do a 4 sector day or something longer than Syd-Ool-Syd and you'll be well over $1000.

Overnights: last month more than 15 overnights. This month around 11.

[Popgun]

I believe he's referring to JQ NZ...not JQ Australia.

ie. a NZ-based comparison with Jit Connict (oranges with oranges).

PG

PS. As an aside...Aussie EBA's are listed on the Fair Work website. The latest JQ Australia EBA is here: https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/documents/agreements/fwa/AE413585.pdf

[Ollie Onion]

Hey Ultergra, this is a thread about Jetstar NZ v Jetconnect, back in your hole mate.

[Ultergra]

Hey Ultergra, this is a thread about Jetstar NZ v Jetconnect, back in your hole mate.


Is it? All is says as a title is Jetconnect vs Jetstar. Not Jetstar NZ.

school holidays must have started early in SA mate?

[Ned Gerblansky]

Imagine both of them clutched together and then rammed up your jacksie. Go for the one that hurts least, but they're both gonna hurt.

Ned.

(who travels by ship and train now I've retired.) early

[The Green Goblin]

You're a bunch of wallys. Seriously.

Take whatever achieves your career goals.

My advice is to take who gives you a start date first. If you're lucky enough to get a start date at both, flip a coin.

[framer]

I would have thought it a pretty easy decision in that Jetstar NZ pays more than Jetconnect and you get more days off per month. You work less and get paid more.
What else is there?

[kev2002]

...and by the sounds of things if you want to get in to Air NZ on the airbus its the best route to take!

[lostflyer]

If you want quick jet time, Jetconnect. If you want any sort of lifestyle and money then stay well away from Jetconnect. Oh and pigs will fly before JC gets B787's and longhaul flying.

[El Alto]

Seems to be pretty competitive for any of these positions. As others have pointed out, take whoever gives you the first start. A bird in the hand...

If you're lucky enough to be offered both at the same time, consider the lifestyle you want and bases. If the negotiations with JC work out the word is it may be comparable to Jetstar.

[sahni]

Seems to be pretty competitive for any of these positions. As others have pointed out, take whoever gives you the first start. A bird in the hand...

If you're lucky enough to be offered both at the same time, consider the lifestyle you want and bases. If the negotiations with JC work out the word is it may be comparable to Jetstar.
Lifestyle and bases; who can shed some light into this topic? JC has pilots in AKL and WLG, and are they able to commute to work with their standard roster? Guess the same doesn't apply for J* as they do lots of domestic flying too where the flight schedule is most likely unable to accommodate for commuters from within the regions?

[Judd]

Not sure about jetconnect, but do you mean Jetstar Australia on the EBA. Most FOs anywhere between 140 and 180k depending on what overtime/Overnight allowances/Day Off payments they are getting.


Not bad money for first officers. Especially when China Air Boeing 777 local captains are on around $80,000 USD.

[gtseraf]

JUdd

Compare apples with apples next time.

Cost of living at the different countries will affect salaries paid. Don't muddy the waters with silly comments like yours!

[Vetical Limit]

Lifestyle and bases; who can shed some light into this topic? JC has pilots in AKL and WLG, and are they able to commute to work with their standard roster?
JC rosters makes commuting more or less impossible.

[Corkey McFuz]

Latest FO recruitment -around 10 interviewed with only 1 or 2 accepted.

Do you mean they only took on one or two out of those interviewed or only 1 or 2 accepted job offers ?

I heard there were a few last year offered jobs but turned them down...

[empacher48]

Anyone know what is up at JC? Their recruitment portal no longer mentions paying anything for the type rating and that it will be organised for you.

Any changes in the contract?

[Vetical Limit]

Anyone know what is up at JC? Their recruitment portal no longer mentions paying anything for the type rating and that it will be organised for you.

Looks like it is a knee jerk response by management in an attempt to stay on top of a looming monumental shortage of FO's.

[reubee]

I've seen a few complaints about the JC rosters/conditions. My original thought was that with their schedule of only 8 738's only doing TT flights that it would be a simple case of the rosters rotating through the possible morning NZ-OZ-NZ flights and then the afternoon/evening NZ-OZ-NZ with a couple of overnights in WLG, CHC, SYD ending in the dreaded AKL-MEL-AKL redeye. However I guess its not that simple in that if you operate into CHC, WLG at midnight, you aren't flying out again first thing next morning (well I hope you aren't). Then throw in problems of a small potential pool of standby.

I suspect to get nicer rosters they need to get a bit more critical mass and somehow merge the 8 JC and similar sized JQ TT/NZ fleets together (and pick a common type 738 or 320 in doing so) so you have at least 3 aircraft overnighting in both WLG and CHC so that a crew based can be sustained in WLG,CHC as well as a larger crew base in AKL.

[polaris79]

Id suspect more redeyes will be on the cards!! Anyone have any info on the proposed changes expected on the JC T&Cs for pilots?

[Helmethead]

Do many guys commute across the Tasman that work at Qantas NZ ?
Also I heard that Qantas NZ might be put on the Qantas Australia seniority list as part of the negotiations like Virgin New Zealand did during there last negotiations.
Which would be awesome for any Qantas New Zealand guys wanting to get back to Aussie.

[sahni]

Commuting across the ditch? Not a chance. Between reserves, duty changes and 8 days off which you often work into, commuting from Auckland is hard enough.

Do you commute from Auckland by car or by plane, and how likely is the 10 days off which was mentioned earlier?

[sahni]

It seems that JC now fully funds the type rating i.e. no payment upfront required by the new hire. That's a positive change I'd say. Any other changes for the better, perhaps extra days off etc? Would be great to see the conditions in par with J* NZ.

[flyingtool]

Would anyone have a copy of both CEAs and be willing to pm them to me? Thanks in advance

[mattyj]

One of them requires a CASA license with an encyclopedic knowledge of bureaucratic minutiae and the torturous line training program devised by the Australian grinding machine and the other, lets you fly on the simple and elegant New Zealand regulatory system once you've completed the ground school and sim in Melbourne

[Falling Leaf]

One of them requires a CASA license with an encyclopedic knowledge of bureaucratic minutiae and the torturous line training program devised by the Australian grinding machine and the other, lets you fly on the simple and elegant New Zealand regulatory system once you've completed the ground school and sim in Melbourne

Love it! As someone who's worked on both sides on the 'dutch' it is easy to see how dysfunctional, overly complicated and backwards most of the Australian aviation sector is (CASA, ASA, airspace design, C&T culture, GA etc etc etc).

I just don't get it...maybe because the country is flat, has great weather and the size of Europe, we thought we had to complicate things to have something to do...

[flyingtool]

So no to the CEAs?

[Ollie Onion]

I can send you a copy of the Jetstar NZ CEA when I get home a bit later on, should have it to you tonight.

[ElZilcho]

Can't help with CEA's, but just read today that Emirates is ditching the SYD-AKL sector in favour of more frequency with QF A330's.

Unless some aircraft are in for a rego change, that'll see mainline taking more Tasman flying (back) off Jetconnect.

If this proves just the beginning of Emirates withdrawing from the Tasman.... interesting times ahead.

Emirates axes Auckland-Sydney superjumbo flight (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11866931)

[framer]

EK have been reducing flying sectors globally for a while now. If you believe prune it is because of crewing issues. I don't know if that is correct or not.

[Chris2303]

EK have been reducing flying sectors globally for a while now. If you believe prune it is because of crewing issues. I don't know if that is correct or not.

And we know that they are hurting financially.

[maggot]

Are they flying dxb-akl non stop anyhow?

[Chris2303]

Are they flying dxb-akl non stop anyhow?

Yes they are

[flyingtool]

Cheers mate

[Pacpilot]

Would someone be able to tell me what the interview is like, i.e
What type of questions get asked?
What the pay for a new First officer is?
Time to command upgrade?
Thanks :)

[Pacpilot]

Would someone be able to tell me what the interview is like, i.e
What type of questions get asked?
What the pay for a new First officer is?
Time to command upgrade?
Thanks :)

[Trees getting bigger]

For those interested, I came across this on Jetstar website.
Looks like a Jetstar/Jetstar regional/Jetconnect roadshow.


Pilot Roadshow - New Zealand | Jetstar (http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/careers/pilot-roadshow-new-zealand)

[Willing to Fly]

For those interested, I came across this on Jetstar website.
Looks like a Jetstar/Jetstar regional/Jetconnect roadshow.


Pilot Roadshow - New Zealand Jetstar (http://www.jetstar.com/au/en/careers/pilot-roadshow-new-zealand)



Roadshows seem to be ongoing. I was just looked up by a recruiter and invited to attend one of them at the end of November.

Unfortunately, I'm working and can't attend. I asked the recruiter if she could tell me about the terms and conditions, compensation package etc. The recruiter told me that they will only provide that info to successful applicants. I'm not from here originally so I don't know if that's a fairly standard approach or not. Where I'm from if someone is evading telling you the basics of pay and roster it isn't worth applying.

Can anyone here shed some info on the basics? Captain and FO numbers would be appreciated.

[Australopithecus]

What’s the big secret? And why would you go through the effort of applying for a job without knowing the conditions of service? Sounds like a typical HR clusterf*ck.

[Gear in transit]

If its the NZ contract, it is quite different to the AUS one so they will be reluctant to give details away until you're hooked whether it be a local wanting to return home, first jet job or something else.
It isn't hard to find details of the specifics and the people on here should be able to answer what you want, just be specific with what you want to know and you'll find your answers.

[wheels_down]

Companies should not go chasing employees on their own accord baiting them with no information. Approaching people with the means of then providing no sense of what, who, when, where and how much $$, until they actually get the green light? Sounds like some little pissy loco operation to me. Oh hold on....

You have Chinese carriers offering 400-500k, they are very upfront with salaries, schedule, allowances. I mean its all online for anyone to see.

Is this some sort of joke? Or are they just too ashamed to put the numbers out there.

[73qanda]

I think it would be pretty hard to sell the idea of no salary for 11 weeks. Is this even true?
The big problem for the Jetstars and Jetconnects of this world won’t be apparent for another three or four years when retirements spike.
I predict that they will have to dramatically increase their command upgrade training programs when they can’t fill the left seats due to current recruitment practices. Failure rates will be high unless they provide a stepped pathway to command where the bright young things are actually taught what used to be picked up through experience. It’s not the new recruits fault, they are being asked to learn more in less time with less resources while flying crappier rosters.
I would suggest a week long ‘ command preparation’ course after they have been on the line 12 months that involves both classroom and sim time. Then at least they can hit the line thinking for the second year of their job.
Who’s KPI will that hit though?

[Willing to Fly]

If its the NZ contract, it is quite different to the AUS one so they will be reluctant to give details away until you're hooked whether it be a local wanting to return home, first jet job or something else.
It isn't hard to find details of the specifics and the people on here should be able to answer what you want, just be specific with what you want to know and you'll find your answers.

She mentioned that there was a difference between the NZ contract and the Oz contract. Apparently the Oz contract is out there somewhere in the public sphere but the NZ one is top secret.

Let's start with the NZ specifics: FO and Captain pay scales, number of days off per month, number of leave days per year. It looks like they are taking DEC's but on the off chance that someone gets in on an FO contract, what is required to get into the left seat? Is there any minimum time requirements (total time, time on type, time with the company once checked to the line)?

Also, does anyone know where the Australian contract is located so I can read up on it myself?

[Daylight Robbery]

NZD $101 911 for FO. 65 hours stick, includes payment for sims, EPs and TechRefresher. Additional stick hours above 65 at $137.77 per hour. Super is Kiwisaver or equivalent fund, paid by Jestar at 4 1/2 percent of earnings. Unpaid whilst doing endorsement (~ 6 weeks).
No DEC, time to command currently 6 years.
You should be able to find the Jetstar EBA (Aust) on FWA resources

[Willing to Fly]

NZD $101 911 for FO. 65 hours stick, includes payment for sims, EPs and TechRefresher. Additional stick hours above 65 at $137.77 per hour. Super is Kiwisaver or equivalent fund, paid by Jestar at 4 1/2 percent of earnings. Unpaid whilst doing endorsement (~ 6 weeks).
No DEC, time to command currently 6 years.
You should be able to find the Jetstar EBA (Aust) on FWA resources


Thanks. I was under the understanding that command was faster than that. Maybe I misunderstood what I heard in the rumour mill.

When you upgrade, do you reset to year one captain or do you retain Years Of Service and enter at a higher pay rate? \

Is training still unpaid for 6-12 weeks? I have to admit that is a very long time not to have any income at all.

[GA Driver]

When you upgrade, I think it resets as you are a year 1 captain, but one of the other guys should be able to confirm (been awhile for me so I can’t remeber)

The unpaid part is only whilst getting type rating. You aren’t employed by JQ until you return with said type rating. This is one of the reasons they don’t do their in house TR, because they have to pay you from the start (yes absolutely ridiculous, the joint is run by the HR guru’s, they even have an in-house TR approved) so you end up with an ok type rating that luckily you didn’t have to pay for, the downside is you don’t get paid during that time.

If you upgrade, you are already employed so you are still on the payroll. It’s only the intial entry into the company you don’t.

If you’re looking to live in NZ PERMANENTLY, then go for it, but don’t do it if you are trying to get to OZ or have aspiration of long haul/787

[Willing to Fly]

When you upgrade, I think it resets as you are a year 1 captain, but one of the other guys should be able to confirm (been awhile for me so I can’t remeber)

The unpaid part is only whilst getting type rating. You aren’t employed by JQ until you return with said type rating. This is one of the reasons they don’t do their in house TR, because they have to pay you from the start (yes absolutely ridiculous, the joint is run by the HR guru’s, they even have an in-house TR approved) so you end up with an ok type rating that luckily you didn’t have to pay for, the downside is you don’t get paid during that time.

If you upgrade, you are already employed so you are still on the payroll. It’s only the intial entry into the company you don’t.

If you’re looking to live in NZ PERMANENTLY, then go for it, but don’t do it if you are trying to get to OZ or have aspiration of long haul/787

What if you already come with a 737 type rating?

[GA Driver]

Ahhhhh, they operate A320-321’s and 787’s. You need to get that type rating, so the 737 endorsement won’t assist in the slightest. Re-read post above yours.
And no, It won’t assist even if it was an S/O position on the 787.....

[Willing to Fly]

Ahhhhh, they operate A320-321’s and 787’s. You need to get that type rating, so the 737 endorsement won’t assist in the slightest. Re-read post above yours.
And no, It won’t assist even if it was an S/O position on the 787.....

Sorry. I thought Jetconnect was all 737's.

[ElZilcho]

Sorry. I thought Jetconnect was all 737's.

They are. It would seem previous posters were referring to J*.

[fullnoise]

Sorry. I thought Jetconnect was all 737's.

Previous posts are about Jetstar, but for the record, you are now employed and paid during the TR at Jetconnect. It's only enough to live on (mid 40s) but sure beats two months of unemployment. Other pay scales are in the pay comparison thread.

As for time to command, it's not really known until Qantas amend the TACM etc. to account for NZ pilots, as the current QF command minimums don't allow for upgrades ~3 years after joining for obvious reasons.

[Willing to Fly]

Previous posts are about Jetstar, but for the record, you are now employed and paid during the TR at Jetconnect. It's only enough to live on (mid 40s) but sure beats two months of unemployment. Other pay scales are in the pay comparison thread.

As for time to command, it's not really known until Qantas amend the TACM etc. to account for NZ pilots, as the current QF command minimums don't allow for upgrades ~3 years after joining for obvious reasons.

thanks. I thought they might be referring to J*. Makes more sense now.

$40k is survival money but I guess it's only for a short time. I'll look up the actual pay scales. (I'm not justifying crappy salaries)

Am I reading that correctly - QF dictates the upgrade criteria and it doesn't matter if you have 500 hours or 15,000 hours, they just want 3 years on company aircraft before upgrading to captain?

[Berealgetreal]

Word on the street is Pac Bro crew being put onto the Aus EBA. Big payrise.

[Lapon]

Word on the street is Pac Bro crew being put onto the Aus EBA. Big payrise.

Are you sure? I dont know all of the specifics of the oz EBA but if the crews are going to remain based in NZ then I doubt the oz EBA complies in its entirety with NZ labour laws.

[Berealgetreal]

Hi Lapon, yes I’m sure I got an email from my union regarding the matter. Company approached unions. Early days but the idea is everyone can fly with everyone all on same conditions. Hope that helps.

[Berealgetreal]

Pretty close Lapon.

[ElZilcho]

Word around town is a 15% increase over the next 3? years?

[Climb150]

Thread bump.
Just curious if Jetconnect stil dont pay you or for accommodation during training?

[nzwingman]

With the latest round of advertising from JC, I'm curious to know if anyone has been approached for an interview? I've applied a couple of times and am confident I'm low on their 'desireables' list but Im wondering whether its an Expressions of interest collection or if they re actually hiring? TIA

[Climb150]

A friend was told that the 1000 multi crew requirement is non negotiable. How they find enough applicants with this experience baffles me.

[Captain Fun]

A friend was told that the 1000 multi crew requirement is non negotiable. How they find enough applicants with this experience baffles me.

1000 multi crew which is about 2 years in the right seat of a turbo prop is not a baffling level of experience...

[ThunderstormFactory]

The requirement isn’t even 1000 multi crew it’s 1000 multi hours. So 500 command from GA then 1 year RHS at a regional. Quite low minimums for a 737 gig in this part of the world. Why do they find it so hard to get pilots?

[Climb150]

When you see the pay and find out you dont get paid for first 3 months it is crazy that regional TP guys with 2 years experience go for it.

[NGsim]

Climb150 - their first officers are paid and accommodated from day 1.

[Climb150]

don't know much about the Jetstar conditions, however I completed a Jetconnect interview and was shocked at what I heard. Give them 17k upfront then go and put yourself up in Melbourne while you do the TR. Fly Auckland do a few weeks of ground training and then start your line flying about 6-8 weeks after commencement. ALL WHILE NOT GETTING PAID. I couldn't believe my ears when they told me that. Although you get the 17k back when your CTL, the fact of the matter was no pay for up to 11 weeks (rough guide depending on how quick they get you through the system). Then they bond you for 2 years. How can anyone afford to do that? I did not want to condone that type of treatment so I said thanks but no thanks.

So this is no longer true?

[Blueskymine]

A friend was told that the 1000 multi crew requirement is non negotiable. How they find enough applicants with this experience baffles me.

It’s probably baffling when you don’t have it.

It’s not so baffling when you realise their ideal candidate is a regional turboprop captain. Not a flying school instructor with plenty of circuit time.

[who_cares]

Since the NZ Jetconnect AOC has been closed down all new recruits are paid from day1. Go to a Syd and do the HR induction with all new mainline SOs. Then off to Melbourne to commence the endorsement, I think the bond is now 3 yrs though.

[spektrum]

Bonds arent legally enforceable so wouldn't stress. Obviously you'd shoot yourself in the foot as far as the QF group goes and you'd be nuts to go to VA so I guess its a moot point.

[NGsim]

So this is no longer true?

No. and hasn’t been for quite some time

[WannaBeBiggles]

Has the pay changed as well?

[Corkey McFuz]

Bonds arent legally enforceable so wouldn't stress. Obviously you'd shoot yourself in the foot as far as the QF group goes and you'd be nuts to go to VA so I guess its a moot point.


This is not an Australian company we're talking about.

[Corkey McFuz]

JQNZ and JC are very similar on pay and conditions. However the best over here is arguably VANZ, significantly ahead of JC and JQ though both have cea's due for renewal soon so wait and see what happens there. If you're an ozzy just looking to head over grab the jet time and run then you might as well not waste your time - sounds like all 3 are putting a lot of effort into stamping that out with a good focus on commitment.

[Left 270]

Bonds arent legally enforceable so wouldn't stress. Obviously you'd shoot yourself in the foot as far as the QF group goes and you'd be nuts to go to VA so I guess its a moot point.

They aren’t on an award. I doubt we’re talking award conditions with any of the operators listed here.