EgyptAir vs. bird

[deanm]

Descent into Heathrow:

Bird collision destroys nose of EgyptAir passenger jet landing at Heathrow Airport - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-14/bird-destroys-nose-of-egyptair-passenger-jet/7244296)

Dean

[Machinbird]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/7244490-3x2-940x627.jpg
It appears that the bird did not break through to the inside of the radome.
That was fortuitous. Bird guts sprayed around inside a radome and over the equipment are a real chore to clean out. The smell is "offal".:*

[Hotel Tango]

I would have thought it best to just replace the entire nose cone and its equipment.

[Basil]

I wonder if it was one of those red kites whose population appears to be increasing exponentially?

[beamender99]

I wonder if it was one of those red kites whose population appears to be increasing exponentially?
I think it unlikely.
There are flocks of Canada geese all around the area so they might be more likely to be the other victim.

[Skyjob]

In light of these incidents the UK Government has decided to cancel their plans to expand LHR and other airports on the mainland and move the airport in its entirety offshore on an island away from the influence of birds and other wildlife in an attempt to reduce delays to travellers.

Just kidding of course...

[ExXB]

Even the mandarins in BRU don't consider bird strikes to be extraordinary. Hope MS was able to brag, borrow or ... a replacement or they are liable for large compensation payments.

[golfyankeesierra]

Was just wondering at what speed they had the hit.
And also noticed the arrival time of the flight is around 2100.
Didn't think geese were nocturnal flyers; imagine the shock they must have had when they hit it without seeing it coming..

[pax britanica]

A lot of travellers don't appreciate that LHR is in a slightly odd location given the amount of publicity given to opposoton from London dwellers to expansion. Indeed while LHR is heavliy built up to the north , east and to a degree the south but west of LHR it is largely open countryside or parkland (Royal Parkland) for a good few miles with the addition if some enormous reservoirs and flooded gravel pits which attract huge amounts of birdlife .

It has always had a real problem with birdlife , especially pre T5 when the western end of the airfield itself was home to flocks of birds including Lapwings which was appropriate for the days when when the IATA code was still LAP . The Lapwings went when T5 was built but Canada Geese abound and they brought down Sullys A320 and are a real danger to aircraft being big and knocking around in flocks .

So while its a common occurence it shouldnt be written off as trivial -thats a heck of a dent, I know its only a radome , but it would probably knockout an engine and I am sure the crew would not regard losing one donk at 200ft on finals as insignificant

PB

[Basil]

There are flocks of Canada geese all around the area
And where they land they crap all over the place.
Riverside dwellers here put string on pegs across their lawns to discourage the blighters.

[Stanwell]

GSY,
I didn't think that Canada Geese flew at night, either.
But then, I guess they don't call it a 'goose' for nothing.
Nonetheless, that was one hefty bird they hit.

Birds don't have to be big to cause you grief, either.
In 1960, a Lockheed Electra ran into a flock of starlings on take-off, affecting all four engines.
The consequent crash-landing resulted in 80% fatalities.

In the UK, early 1950s, I seem to remember, a Vampire had a similar encounter with starlings.
While the pilot was able to bring it back to earth safely, the bird-strike damage alone resulted in the aircraft being written off as BER.

And, if we want to go back a bit further, the first bird strike reported was by one Orville Wright, in 1905.

[lomapaseo]

GSY,
I didn't think that Canada Geese flew at night, either.
But then, I guess they don't call it a 'goose' for nothing.
Nonetheless, that was one hefty bird they hit.

That's because they don't have their running lights on.

The data has lots of canada geese strikes at night at climb and descent altitudes, spring and fall

[CONSO]

That's because they don't have their running lights on.

The data has lots of canada geese strikes at night at climb and descent altitudes, spring and fall
fwiw from wiki

Bird strikes happen most often during takeoff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeoff) or landing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing), or during low altitude flight.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike#cite_note-7) However, bird strikes have also been reported at high altitudes, some as high as 6,000 m (20,000 ft) to 9,000 m (30,000 ft) above the ground. Bar-headed geese (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar-headed_goose) have been seen flying as high as 10,175 m (33,383 ft) above sea level. An aircraft over the Ivory Coast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_Coast) collided with a Rüppell's vulture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCppell%27s_vulture) at the altitude of 11,300 m (37,100 ft), the current record avian height.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird_strike#cite_note-8) The majority of bird collisions occur near or on airports (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport) (90%, according to the ICAO (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Civil_Aviation_Organization)) during takeoff, landing and associated phases. According to the FAA wildlife hazard management manual for 2005, less than 8% of strikes occur above 900 m (3,000 ft) and 61% occur at less than 30 m (100 ft).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

[beamender99]

Riverside dwellers here put string on pegs across their lawns to discourage the blighters.

The Duke of Northumberland's River and the Longford River are in concrete trenches where they flow very very close to Terminal 5 Heathrow. ( a few feet from the peri track) They have nets across them to exclude all birds of all sizes.

[Trinity 09L]

Of the bits still remaining will ID the culprit, hoping it's a Canadian so we can commence a cull of this nuisance
Lucky it was not an engine ingestion then a different story.

[golfyankeesierra]

hoping it's a Canadian so we can commence a cull of this nuisance
Cull the Canadians?
Wow, that's radical :}

[golfyankeesierra]

But it will teach them to keep their geese in check ;)

[Wageslave]

No, but the experts will take a gander at the problem.

[Herod]

Do geese fly at night? Since some species fly at FL300 and above, I wouldn't expect them to climb and descend each day. They are up there because it is the most efficient way to fly. Yes, FL300. Geese don't have altimeters to set to the local QNH, so I would suspect that evolution had geared them to standard pressure (which they should be, up there, anyway)

[DCS99]

How do they breathe at FL300?

I hate seeing birds...

[Herod]

From Wiki ref Bar-headed geese.

The bar-headed goose is one of the world's highest-flying birds, having been heard flying across Mount Makalu – the fifth highest mountain on earth at 8,481 m (27,825 ft)

Surprisingly, despite predictable tail winds that blow up the Himalayas (in the same direction of travel as the geese), bar-headed geese spurn these winds, waiting for them to die down overnight, when they then undertake the greatest rates of climbing flight ever recorded for a bird, and sustain these climbs rates for hours on end, according to research published in 2011

Studies have found that bar-headed geese breathe more deeply and efficiently under low oxygen conditions, which serves to increase oxygen uptake from the environment. The haemoglobin of their blood has a higher affinity for oxygen compared to low-altitude geese.

[FlightlessParrot]

How do they breathe at FL300?


With surprising ease. The first knowledge of how high geese fly was when some climbers very high on Everest were overflown by geese. Just to rub it in, the geese honked.

When you also think how smart some birds are with their tiny brains, you have to believe these are highly evolved dinosaurs.

[Trinity 09L]

Any info on height of collision, runway used or samples ie feathers? AAIB investigation?
Sincere apologies to Canadians.:uhoh:

[Ranger 1]

Water fowl and waders frequently fly at night, other species such as Gulls can also be encountered. Sometimes migrating birds can be involved I recall removing bird remains of several birds from an aircraft for identification that were struck at 8000ft over Southampton which turned out to be Redwings which is a Thrush species that winters here in the UK.

In this case identification of the species should be straight forward as there appears to be plenty of remains to analyse including feathers, sometimes the species involved may come as a complete surprise.

[wanabee777]

Sometimes migrating birds can be involved I recall removing bird remains of several birds from an aircraft for identification that were struck at 8000ft over Southampton which turned out to be Redwings which is a Thrush species that winters here in the UK.Good reason not to request or accept a "high speed" clearance below 10,000 ft.

[Turbine D]

When we lived in northern New Jersey, I walked our dog at night around 11pm. In the fall of the year it was not unusual to hear Canadian geese flying during their southern migration. I could hear them squawking, but not see them, unless it was a moon lit night as they were flying so high. When I was able to see them, they flew in a V formation, as many as 15-20 birds in that formation. This was years ago and I am not sure they migrate today as they did then.

[Abelard]

When I was in the USAF, my CO was a former F-106 pilot. He said he once ejected after the airplane ingested a Canada goose at FL250...species identification came from a piece of bill found in what was left of the engine.

[lomapaseo]

When I was in the USAF, my CO was a former F-106 pilot. He said he once ejected after the airplane ingested a Canada goose at FL250...species identification came from a piece of bill found in what was left of the engine.

are you sure it wasn't a "loonie"

[JW411]

Just to introduce a bit of levity; many years ago we hit a bloody great bat on take-off from an eastern Italian air force base just as the sun was going down. We were fine but I guess the said bat had a huge headache.

My captain could have been described as an "awkward sod".

One week later, the SFSO (Station Flight Safety Officer) rang him up and reminded him that he had yet to file a Bird Strike Form.

"It wasn't a bird, it was a bat. Bats are mammals and not birds. Send me a Bat Strike Form and I shall fill it in"!

I had many bird strikes in my 55 year flying career. The biggest one was a sea eagle (2 metre wingspan) which hit my starboard wing on final approach to a famous Middle Eastern island. The damage went right through the D Box of the leading edge to the main spar.

The most surprising was at 19,000 ft at night in the descent over northern Germany. We were beneath 8/8ths cloud cover and above 8/8ths cloud cover which beggars the question as to how the bird was navigating.

[Herod]

how the bird was navigating.

EVS (Evolutionary Navigation System)

[clunckdriver]

For all the Brits bitching about Canada Geese craping in your parks, denting your aircraft and other sins, this is our revenge for you folks bringing the Starling to Canada! On a more serious note, our 421B took a massive Canada Goose strike a while back whilst overshooting at night having not seen a darned thing at mins.

[Abelard]

"It wasn't a bird, it was a bat. Bats are mammals and not birds. Send me a Bat Strike Form and I shall fill it in"!Many years ago my wife had a foot broken when the horse I was riding kicked her horse, and I took her to the USAF hospital. The admitting nurse took out a form titled "Report of Animal Bite" and began asking questions from it.

I protested that it was a kick, not a bite, but it was the only form she had and by god she was going to fill it out.

--What kind of animal was it?
--A horse.
--Where did the horse bite you?
--It kicked me on the foot.
--Are there tooth marks on your foot?
--No.
--Had the horse had a rabies shot?

And on and on...

[Jump Complete]

Buzzards are big lumps to hit, too. A Trislander in Alderney had a severely dented leading edge in-board of the wing engine after an encounter with one a few years ago (and Tris' take some force to dent!). I am no expert on them, but they seem to be aggressively territorial. When I was a Tris driver, I was taxiing up the grass runway in Alderney and had one blocking my way. He steadfastly refused to move as I approached him, and eventually hopped begrudgingly back just enough to let me past, glaring at me as if to say "This is my patch," Apparently he was un-impressed by G-JOEY's big googley eyes and the the big noisy yellow bird coming towards him!

[DirtyProp]

At the airport I frequently fly from, there are some of these:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02540/pheasant_2540274b.jpg

The funny thing is that they seem captivated by the taxi light and they run next to the aircraft (C-172) when we are taxing, I kid you not.
As some of you might know, the proper way to dispose of such nuisance is this:
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2358/2043110332_938a0f6194.jpg
possibly with a good Barbaresco.
Unfortunately, I haven't been able to convince the Airport Mgmt to let me help them improve airport safety at a very reasonable cost for them.

On the other hand, several small airfields here have plenty of hares.
Maybe I could improve safety there...

[FullWings]

Some years ago I remember taking off from IAD at night. Climbing through c. 8,000’ I put the autopilot in by pressing the button. Sometimes there is a bit of a ‘clonk’ as it engages but this time there was a loud bang! Cue much examination of engine instruments, EICAS, PFDs, etc. but everything seemed to be in working order.

As it started to get light mid-Atlantic, the reason for the bang became obvious as daylight revealed blood and guts all over the front windscreens. Amazing coincidence that depressing the switch and hitting the bird happened in the same instant. Also, interesting that a decent size bird was up there in darkness above a cloud layer too.