Ryanair current information cadet and FO work condition. [Archive]

jajcekts

12th Mar 2016, 16:56

Hello all,

I would like to start a topic about how it is really to work for Ryanair, rules, regulations, contracts, taxes, insurances etc.
Lets shear what we now for those trying to join Ryanair.
My questions

1. Do they care if you are insured in your country? Do they neet a proof?
2. How does it look like after TR training - base selection, do You have a choice or it is GO THERE.
3. How you can change a base?
4. Do you pay taxes only in Ireland or in Your country too? What tax office options?
5. Company in Ireland what you can deduct from taxes, can you deduct VAT from a car?
6. Is the SBH FO and SFO sre the same?
7. How You become a SFO, any hours req?
8. Finally how it is to work in Ryanair and how it is compared to Wizz?

Cheers

tomuchwork

13th Mar 2016, 10:39

Hi,

I did the interview recently, got my base. So I can give some insight(not about working conditions yet).

1.I think they have to comply with current EU regulations. At least if you go on a direct contract with RYR as I did. Tired of dealing with some leasing agencies.
You will pay social contributions in your "homebase" country.

2.Got my requested base. DEC. Don't know if they offer the same to cadets or FO.

3.Don't know. I guess by asking to change and entering a waiting list till a position becomes available. As everywhere.

4.Seems on this new "direct contract" thing with Ryanair you pay taxes in Ireland and social contributions at your home base.

5.I don't think so. In which country can you deduct VAT from a car??

6./

7./

8. I considered Wizz for a long time last year(did stall the DEC interview month by month), but honestly, low pay and eastern European bases made it not interesting for me.
IF you are Eastern European it might be a good choice to go there, be based in your home country.
Ryanair was the better choice for me, got my base that is perfect to be with my family every day.

Depends really from where you are from and what you get at the interview/contract.

From what I hear the RYR(I can confirm that) is much more straight forward then the Wizz Interview. No strange HR guys and no "pilot haters" at the tech quiz. Was most likely the nicest interview I ever had.

jajcekts

13th Mar 2016, 13:29

Thank You for information, DEC is different story. FO are on contract...
Is there anyone that can estimate take home pay for FO on storm contract after TR and line training?

tomuchwork

14th Mar 2016, 11:41

Sorry to hear that. Did not know that FO are contract only.

I guess then you have to set up an Irish limited company, employ yourself and rent yourself out to RYR. At least that is the way that some of my irish and uk collegues do at my current outfit.

jajcekts

14th Mar 2016, 15:59

That is correct Sir, i would like some Cadet-FO write a comment about that company especially tax issues. Do they pay tax in Ireland or in home country or both? And finally what is take home pay for FO at the beginning.

FullClimb

14th Mar 2016, 23:25

I believe cadets on a Storm Contract earn around 70euros per scheduled block hour, so based on a conservative 750hours a year, working 11 months, as you'll take a month off in the winter unpaid, expect to take home around 4000euros a month. That figure is based on 85% retention as you're TR will be tax deductible.

Once your expenses run out however, expect to be retaining much much less.

Jwscud

15th Mar 2016, 09:58

Some rough ideas from chatting to new cadets (not in the order of your points I'm afraid)

1. Expect around 5 months from joining to first pay check.

2. You will get almost no choice over your initial base unless you are keen to live in one of the less popular bases - Poland, Greece, S Italy mainly. Base transfers happen mainly in February and September (start and end of the summer season) and are somewhat of a lottery. The wait depends on how big the base you want to move to is and how popular it is.

3. You will be offered a contract with Storm, and the rates of pay are pretty rubbish. The hourly rate is lower than was offered when I started nearly 5 years ago - expect around €35/hr during line training and maybe €50/hr once released.

4. Hours flown are variable. Make sure you save money during good months to even things out and account for your month off. 700-750 hours/year is a reasonable guess to do your figures on. Money for hours more than that should be considered a bonus.

5. Once you get your contract you will see the pay rates. The steps were previously at 500 and 1500 hours in type. There is no SFO as such but you pick up a 3rd stripe 12 months after your second line check.

6. Tax and social insurance is an unholy mess. In the UK, you now pay it all in the UK. You will need a certificate showing where you pay your social taxes - your accountants will advise you on this. When I was based on the continent, I paid social insurance where I was based and tax in Ireland.

7. I have enjoyed my time at Ryanair in terms of the flying, my colleagues and the friends I've made. It can allow you to work close to your home wherever you are in Europe. However, bases may open, close, expand or contract at the company's whim depending on industrial relations and commercial considerations so it doesn't pay to get too settled if you are at a small base.

8. Ryanair works best for Captains on Ryanair contracts with a family home close to their assigned base. If you are in the right hand seat, command upgrade will involve at last a year sent to the back and beyond, probably supporting two households if you are married or in a relationship on a reduced salary and can be very difficult. Have an exit plan if that isn't for you. Remember how you feel now, probably single, looking for your first job is not how it's always going to be.

Best of luck.

Jakub Velicka

15th Mar 2016, 13:21

1. Expect around 5 months from joining to first pay check.

Is there any time to continue your present job, while those 5 months? I mean even if it would be part time or home office from you training base, or something..? Can't imagine to live 5 months without income, if you have your life expenses and have just paid €29000 for TR.

Thanks for reply.

IndiaNovember

15th Mar 2016, 13:37

i'm doing my type rating in AMS with ryanair, i was very lucky because i received my call just 1 week after finish my MCC.
Ryanair is the only airline that offer a 5 year contract trough McGinley and the salary is very nice for a guy that has just finished the ATPL training.
Remember that ryanair is the only one that can offer you a job with the lowest requirements possible.
i know that live 5 months without salary is difficult and you have to encounter a lot of expenses after get your job (criminal certificate, post, uniform, ID). i know that is very difficult, but you paid an ATPL (in my case, my parents paid), is the only occasion to have start a career in aviation, flying a 737 with 150 hours of cessna.
now the limitations for pilots changed and you can fly 1000 hrs for calendar year, and with ryanair you're very close to the limit.

Michael S

15th Mar 2016, 14:38

now the limitations for pilots changed and you can fly 1000 hrs for calendar year, and with ryanair you're very close to the limit.

I would suggest checking that one before making infringement. It's still 900 in a calendar year. 1000 is for 12 consecutive months. This makes quite significant difference.

speed_alive_rotate

15th Mar 2016, 18:06

Jwscud

15th Mar 2016, 20:10

The time to train is around 3 months from start of induction to base training. Line training can be a lottery depending on the time of the year. In winter, it may be disjointed and at different bases to keep you current due to a shortage of trainers with hours available and leave. In the summer however, you are likely to zip through flying 90 hours a month.

You do not get paid until safety pilot release, which is a minimum of 12 sectors I believe. Note minimum. I know of at least 2 cases over Christmas where it took over a month to get safety pilot released.

IndiaNovember - whilst Ryanair will give you a roster on completion of line training they have not given you a job. The guaranteed hours clause (if your contract has one) is not weighted in your favour at all. There have been recent winters where in overcrewed bases FOs have flown 20-30 hours a month all winter. Always be aware where you stand.

And finally, join a union and the RPG.

IndiaNovember

15th Mar 2016, 20:48

my mistake about flight limitations, 1000 hrs in 12 consecutive calendar months, sorry for the mistake.
Ok guys you will make 30 hours in december but you will make more than 100 hours during summer, it's normal.

Jwscud

15th Mar 2016, 20:54

6 months at 90h per month plus 5 at say 50 = €40k gross across the year. What if your first year starts in the winter and you are getting around €2000 gross per month to pay all those debts?

Listen to people who have lived through it trying to give you straight info before trying to tell me what's "normal" - there's a good fellow.

IndiaNovember

15th Mar 2016, 21:00

better than staying home with no salary and renew every years your licence, in ryanair the career is very fast, other options? go into a pay to fly on a320 and hope that easyjet will call you.
everyone wants a job.......everyone want the best job paid 10000€ x month....after cessna experience (150 hours)...... come on......

jajcekts

15th Mar 2016, 22:26

Ok Thanks for your info so what is take home some say is 2000 some that 4000 it is 100% different, what is current SBH on storm contract? What is average yearly hours for FO i know it is base dependant but is it 700 or 800 or 900 ?

Fullclimb after all dedustion what does it mean much much less is it 2000 or 3500?

speed_alive_rotate

16th Mar 2016, 10:57

On the successful completion of an interview with Ryanair , do they offer any help in terms of documents to support a loan for the type rating. As we all know after our flight training most of us are broke and so it is difficult to go back to the same bank you already owe your flight training cost to and ask for a further loan for the type. Any information would be gratefully received.
Sorry for the re post but just did'nt want my question to get lost in the discussion. @IndiaNovember , maybe you would be able to answer this question as you are training with FR at the moment.
Many thanks , SAR

IndiaNovember

16th Mar 2016, 11:44

Sorry for the re post but just did'nt want my question to get lost in the discussion. @IndiaNovember , maybe you would be able to answer this question as you are training with FR at the moment.
Many thanks , SAR

when you pass the interview with ryanair the first agency that will release a contract is mcginley (you can ask to have the contract asap), then the CAE will send you a contract for the training (with the cost of the type rating etc..) but at the end nobody will help you for payment or something like this, CAE wants the payment at least 4 weeks before starting the course, if you are not able to respect this date you can ask CAE to find another solution( i don`t know what will happen at this time) for the payment.
At the end nobody help me in terms of payment or something. i asked a lot of banks about this (with my contract and everything) but since you don`t have a salary..... will not give you money.

Jwscud

16th Mar 2016, 14:14

Jajckets - expect 700-750 hours per year and do all your sums on that basis. I don't know what the current hourly payments and increments are - perhaps ask IndiaNovember.

Take home I can't help with really as it depends very much on where you get based, social insurance and your accountant.

jajcekts

16th Mar 2016, 17:39

Thanks what does it mean accountsnt dependant, i mean i can figure it out but shouldnt that be a standard procedure for them as we are all the same same income source of sallary same training and costs... what do You suggest about accountant do you have sobebody to recommend, because i heard that on storm i wil have only 2 accountant options and thats it.
INDIA NOVEMBER do You know current SBH and any additions?

Cheers

jajcekts

16th Mar 2016, 17:42

IndiaNovember, so after interview with ryan r u able to get contract with mcginley, is that contract will tell you what are the rules and payment and your first assigned base?

FWIflyer

17th Mar 2016, 02:16

IndiaNovember, so after interview with ryan r u able to get contract with mcginley, is that contract will tell you what are the rules and payment and your first assigned base?

Are you a new cadet ? Or did you attend a FR interview ?

FWIflyer

17th Mar 2016, 10:35

Ivan @IndiaNovember, be aware when you put your "contract" details on this forum. They can easily know who you are. I don't say that you are not allowed to do it but just be careful.

OhNoCB

17th Mar 2016, 11:21

Same contract as hundred and hundreds of others so probably not that enlightening.

I don't work for them anymore but 750h/year was a good one to plan from for an FO when I was there.

In my first year I took home €42500. Please be aware of a couple of things with this number. Firstly it is the net pay from my pay slips. It does not take into account hotac expenses, uniforms, id, medicals, travel etc etc.

Most importantly that figure is paying MINIMUM 'legal' (as defined by our dear supplied accountants) tax due to the offset of the type rating. The deal is pay all income tax in Ireland and social security/national insurance in your based country (this varies a bit from place to place). In many countries now you will be stuck paying both the employers AND employees contributions for social security as technically you are both employer and employee.

Retention is about 85% with expenses to use. It drops HEAVILY once you have no expenses left due to the above. I was expecting to retain no more than about 35-40% which can be better or worse depending on where you are based (which you have as good as no control over).

Not the worst first step into the industry but please go in with your eyes open. Have your boundaries and make it work for you. I went in with a target of leaving within two years and things have worked ok for me. Don't expect to be doing 1000h/year as an FO retaining 85% of your income forever and make sure you save when you get the funds to save because you will need them in the quieter months.

jajcekts

19th Mar 2016, 20:37

Thanks for all info guys,
I am trying to figure it out what will be the best for my and my family. I do have a couple of options Ryanair is one of them.
Can someone tell after all deduction of TR from tax what you can expect to take home per month as SO, FO?

Thx

OhNoCB

20th Mar 2016, 18:35

It depends entirely on what country you are based in. As said above, you will in general pay income tax in Ireland and social security in whichever country you are based in.

In a lot of countries they (annoyingly, but correctly) want you to pay both the employee and employer contribution towards social security. This can add up to rather a lot. In Portugal for example the employee rate is 11% and the employer rate is basically 24%. This means that you will be paying 35% for social security. This is obviously on top of income tax in Ireland which at the higher rate I believe is 41% and you also have to pay a thing called USC (universal social charge) in Ireland which is about another 5%.

On a sizable chunk of your salary then you will be paying 46% to Ireland and 35% to Portugal.

If you do 80 hours in a month and are getting a rate of €75/sbh (the highest possible on the latest contracts) less €4.5 per hour for recurrent training you will gross €5640. of this €1974 goes to Portugal (as an example) and €2594 to Ireland leaving you with €1072 for yourself.

Of course that is just a crude example. Some countries are better, some countries are worse. Unfortunately you don't normally get much choice.

jajcekts

20th Mar 2016, 19:44

jajcekts

20th Mar 2016, 19:52

Where is the regulation about social security payment can somebody pass the link to EU law?

Live your dream

20th Mar 2016, 20:18

Now I understand why RYR is recruiting so many people.

tomuchwork

20th Mar 2016, 21:51

This "divided" system(tax in the country of the operator, social in the country of your base) is not a Ryanair thing alone. Quiet a lot companies HAVE to use that now, because it is a union law. You have to pay your social contribution where you live(or are based to be precise).
In return you get social security in terms of medical, child support, retirement. You don't like it, the ME is a good choice then. Don't pay anything, get nothing(except some company insurance that even often does not help you when you are on leave back in your home country).

That's that.

Usually you do not pay double - I do NOT know the portugese laws but it sounds strange to pay for one thing in 2 countries. But then again, we talk about Portugal, so everything is possible. I heard rumors about having a bad deal being based there.

I had already contracts like that with other companies, normally it works out very fine. Sometimes even nobody wants your tax, neither the country of the employer and not your homebase country. Seldom, but there are cases. Perfectly legal. Only social needs to be paid then.

The example above sounds honestly a bit strange, leaving you from more then 5000 gross with barely 1000. I do not want to say it is wrong, but I would not base my career decision on such an example in a public forum because he did not came up with a correct calculation and references about that laws.

Well, Ryanair is a huge company and it gets even more aircraft, of course they need lot's of people. Plus I am sure there are always pilots leaving(no surprise with more then 300 planes) searching for new adventures in the ME or in China. Or changing operators here in Europe.

OhNoCB

20th Mar 2016, 23:07

Wow, i really appreciate Your time and detail explanation. 1000€ is a bit not what i would expect to be honest how is that possible? Is there anything that You can do to to make more? It is hard to belive in this numbers because as cadet you will ger 50 per SBH so You will get couple hundrets €....

As a cadet you will still be using the TR cost as an expense against tax. You can also claim subsistence against this as well for when you are training. Most people get a couple of years or so out of 'expenses' before they have to start paying taxes fully.

Usually you do not pay double - I do NOT know the portugese laws but it sounds strange to pay for one thing in 2 countries. But then again, we talk about Portugal, so everything is possible. I heard rumors about having a bad deal being based there.

...

The example above sounds honestly a bit strange, leaving you from more then 5000 gross with barely 1000. I do not want to say it is wrong, but I would not base my career decision on such an example in a public forum because he did not came up with a correct calculation and references about that laws.

It's a rough calculation to demonstrate how it works - I am not saying it is penny perfect because I have simplified it greatly by not including tax free allowances etc etc but it is correct in principle - ask some of the struggling FOs in Ryanair.

TO clear one thing up - the problems here come from the fact that in the above example you are NOT paying for the same thing twice anywhere. Double taxation covers that. The above shows paying INCOME related tax in Ireland and SOCIAL contributions in the based country. The only slight oddity is the USC (Universal Social Charge) which is also paid to Ireland but that is because it is not a social security contribution and is a separate income related tax in Ireland which was renamed to USC a while ago.

I also wouldn't advise anyone to make career decisions based solely on what I am saying, that would be foolish. I am just giving a realistic example of how it works.

It does vary from country to country because some will treat you as self employed and not make you pay both employee and employer contributions for social security. The issue is that the contracting deal in Ryanair forces you to set up a LTD company and then be an employee of it - so you have to stump up for both parts if the decision is made that you are an employee.

jajcekts

21st Mar 2016, 07:44

Ok can You explain me who and what kind of proof required about social security? Company require some kind of statement from country of base? Or the country of base require statement from company?

OhNoCB

21st Mar 2016, 08:56

It's essentially irrelevant. You have to pay it. Through the LTD company set up you are told to pick an accountant out of a few 'selected' ones. They are the ones that will manage your payroll and ensure you pay it. As far as I am aware it is essentially required by Ireland since you are an employee/director of an Irish LTD company that you pay it there. However the system is that you pay social contributions in your based country and you will need to do this to get an A1 certificate to prove that you are paying it somewhere to Ireland. Having this is essentially what stops more than 1 country asking for the same payment.

I am no expert on this so do your own research. What I can say is that the figures I gave in the previous post are representative of what to possibly expect once you are properly paying tax and not using type rating expenses as a way to pay less.

Jwscud

21st Mar 2016, 09:31

If you are a UK citizen and based in the UK, all tax and social insurance is now paid in the UK as part of a "deal" with HMRC (pay it all here or we will investigate you) and expenses allowed are far lower. Retention rate is around 60% of before tax income after some time in the company.

Your agency will provide you a base assignment letter once you get your permanent base and this must go to your accountants who will hopefully advise you on what is required. You will have to apply for a certificate from your country of base to state you pay your social insurance there. I have only done this in Italy and the U.K. so can't tell you anything about anywhere else in Europe. Obviously, if you are based in your country of residence things are much simplified.

MaverickPrime

21st Mar 2016, 09:43

I heard on the grape vine that it's about €28000 after all taxes. After you pass 1500 hours you get a rise to €75/hr, I think this is supposed coincide with the expenses running out to help you offset the taxes you have to pay. I don't work for FR so I'm only telling you what I've pieced together from all the different things I've heard. A lot of speculation on this thread and all Ryanair salary threads for that matter. I don't understand why FR pilots won't publish what they earn for real, I can only speculate that there is some contractual clause stating that the real pay shouldn't be disclosed.

Martin_123

21st Mar 2016, 11:55

I know that OhNoCB just wanted to demonstrate the concept and did not claim that his numbers are accurate, however I felt it would be handy to clarify the Irish income tax - please keep in mind that it's a progressive (sliding) tax, meaning the less you earn, the less percentage you pay. Minimum base is 20%, maximum is 40%. So if you are earning 75eur sbh, you fly 80h a month or 960h a year - that means your annual income will be 72000. Certain part of it is not taxed, it's called a tax credit. If you don't have any other tax credits (for example, if you're married or have children etc, you can get more tax credits), the total you will have to pay as income tax during that year is going to be €18,740.00.

The USC, which is on it's way out btw, is also on a sliding scale, so it's not strictly 5%, but it works out close to that anyway @ €3,302.00

So how does that look when we go back to our bloke in Portugal? Ireland gets 1836 euros, not 2594

now on to Portugal - as in quite a few countries social security tax amount can be determined by the self employed person itself, 32% is the very maximum you can legally contribute. The minimum rate, which covers the basics is 25% - but - here's the interesting part - as a self-employed you can apply this rate to whichever amount you like as long as it's not smaller than minimum monthly wage, which is something like 600 eur at the moment.

So instead of giving Portugal €1974 a month, there's nothing stopping you to pay just 150 euros instead - that does mean, that if you get sick, you get very little protection, so the more you contribute, the better the protection. But the point is, if you get €5640 a month you can keep up to 3654 eur to yourself, and not just 1000

jajcekts

21st Mar 2016, 17:14

Martin, thats look much better because 1000 is just impossible in my opinion, i am happy that You mentioned that it is accountants job to help you out with situation. Just wondering if you are paying social in your country and you have international protection do you need to pay it in your base country 2nd time? Any ideas?

OhNoCB

22nd Mar 2016, 13:13

Yep it is true that my example was a bleak look because of not accounting for tax free allowances, credits etc.

One thing though Matin, is that in some countries they will NOT accept you as self employed. They will determine that you are employed by your LTD company. THis means you CAN NOT pay the self employed contribution. You have to pay an employee contribution and an employer contribution yourself. This is not a pleasant situation and I can assure you that there have been many discussions with accountants and it has been them along with the authorities in the countries concerned that have decided this. Some accountants do have other opinions but as you are restricted as to which accountants you are allowed to use it can leave you a bit stuck.

speed_alive_rotate

22nd Mar 2016, 13:43

Hey @OhNoCB ; Can you mention a few of the countries you know of which make you pay both employee and employers contribution. Would surely be one of the top priorities for someone choosing the 3 base options!!
Regards SAR

Jwscud

22nd Mar 2016, 20:05

You pay both Employer and Employee NI in the UK, for sure.

OhNoCB

23rd Mar 2016, 00:08

I don't want to make guesses. The two I have had experience of are the UK and Portugal.

172_driver

23rd Mar 2016, 00:28

Where is the regulation about social security payment can somebody pass the link to EU law?

Commission Regulation EU 845/2012

I would caution against believing that you're well insured just because you're paying the social taxes. Ryanair's business model is not compatible with social insurance schemes in all countries. If you were to tell them you're taking your maternity leave - that you're entitled to by law - allowance during the summer peak you'll be the laughing stock.

Ryanair's cadetship is great for the young, eager pilot without commitments. It's first after leaving Ryanair I understood the meaning of secure employment.

Jwscud

23rd Mar 2016, 21:37

What percentage of your gross hourly rate you end up with in your pocket at the end of the month.

liam548

26th Mar 2016, 06:38

I realise there are historic threads with the "how long should I wait for contact from CAE" questions however I see the PPJN page for Ryanair has recently been updated to suggest that TRs could even be paid for soon!?

Ryanair pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Ryanair)

Still no contact despite me and a friend entering our details on the CAE website in December.

Is there any email address or is any kind of contact/chasing up still frowned upon?

Thanks.

tomuchwork

26th Mar 2016, 10:05

PPJN looks a bit outdated. At least Capt. info regarding pay is wrong and old. Increased now.

I guess the FO info should be wrong as well.

liam548

26th Mar 2016, 17:18

Current Situation: Increased cadet programm to 700 plus this year, lots of upgrade and DEC to cover expansion and leaves

That section was updated a few days ago

AMS

26th Mar 2016, 19:41

In terms of when people may hear back from RYR - some have taken days, weeks to years and some will never hear!

tomuchwork

27th Mar 2016, 01:03

I think at the moment with all airlines searching for pilots it is a good time - even for low hour FO's.
As a DEC (at least in my case which, I guess, is nothing special) you hear from them normally within a few hours(had a call 1 hour after sending in my application, interview 10 days later(was working before,had no time earlier), job confirmation within 3 days.

I must say - as much as people complain about this company, there are much worse around. And in terms of career it is perfect for any low hour FO(or Capt) on a nice typerating. Just look around this forum how many guys have it much worse(just look into the ME threads if someone has plans for down there ;-) ).

I am very much looking forward to finally again(started my career like that lots of years ago) going home into MY place after a flight. That's luxury nowadays in a pilots life(you will understand after 20-30 years of aviation ^^).

FWIflyer

27th Mar 2016, 02:45

Current Situation: Increased cadet programm to 700 plus this year, lots of upgrade and DEC to cover expansion and leaves

That section was updated a few days ago

Be careful with PJN updates. Anyone can update the details of any airline. I know for sure that they need 500 cadets for 2016. But I have never heard something about the 5 year bond new cadet program

Grumbler

28th Mar 2016, 15:13

Hi guys,

Can you tell me how many months in advance will you know the compulsory months off during winter? And do they give your some kind of possibility to choose or will they just allocate one for you? Or how does it work?
Thanks

NWCoast

31st Mar 2016, 14:30

Depends on demand when you get your month off, also depends on when you joined the company.
Guys who joined with me have now been given months off for May and June, for a couple of them.
Guy who got it in June got the email today, reason for it being in June?
We joined in June, so that's the last possible month to get him off before being within the company for one full year since joining the course.

You can provide a request in the annual leave system, however, you must take whatever you are given.

Hope that helps. :)

tomuchwork

4th Apr 2016, 00:36

Actually a cool thing, will join in June as well. So, always having a month off in spring/summer is a great news. Was afraid I will have to fly to the carribean every year in October/November.

FRALH

7th Apr 2016, 16:43

I´m trying to figure out the pay scheme during the first year with FR and I´d like to know how long, how many hours, does the line training last and how many sectors are flown before the safety pilot will be released?

MaverickPrime

7th Apr 2016, 17:21

According to a FR TRE it's a minimum of 68 sectors but can take a few more depending on the progress of the pilot.

FRALH

7th Apr 2016, 19:17

68 sectors for the line training and not to have the safety pilot released right?

MaverickPrime

7th Apr 2016, 20:15

I haven't did a TR yet on a jet so I'm only working from what I've learnt.

As I understand it after base training you go into line training for a minimum of 68 sectors with a training captain in the LHS, you in the RHS and a safety pilot in the jumpseat in case something happens to the training captain. Once the training captain is happy with your competency (around 68 sectors) he 'Line Checks' you and you are then cleared to fly with an ordinary line captain and no longer require the safety pilot in the jumpseat hence 'safety pilot release', this is the point at which Ryanair start to pay you as I understand it. This is the general procedure for any airline.

Any current FR pilots on here able to clarify this?

FRALH

7th Apr 2016, 21:16

I´not sure about it but I´ve read in a german forum that a guy, who has flown 12 or a little more sectors before to have the safety release removed.
I don´t know but I think that only 12 are too little to have the safety release

For sure a current FR pilot could clarify this aspect.

MaverickPrime

8th Apr 2016, 10:02

Definitely.

FRALH

8th Apr 2016, 11:09

Supernumerary Flights (minimum 12 jump seat flights).
Line Training (minimum 66 sectors).

Jwscud

8th Apr 2016, 14:25

12 sectors minimum for safety pilot release.

Minimum 68 sectors total including a 2 sector line check. Both targets are entirely achievable if you are switched on and well prepared.

OhNoCB

10th Apr 2016, 10:47

Base training > Supernumerary (12 sectors) > Line training with safety pilot (minimum 12 sectors) > Completion of line training without safety pilot (minimum 68 sectors).

No pay until safety pilot release then contracted pay -€20/sbh (as I remember) until line check.

MaverickPrime

21st Apr 2016, 18:07

Can any FR guys enlighten me?

It says that it's €29,500 + VAT for the TR. Since you have to setup your own company when you start with Ryanair does this mean you still have to pay the VAT? 20% of 29k is a lot of money!

FWIflyer

22nd Apr 2016, 05:13

Nope, only 29,5k.

MaverickPrime

22nd Apr 2016, 12:40

Quite reasonable then:rolleyes:

FWIflyer

22nd Apr 2016, 18:45

To be honest, yes ! You have a lot of sim sessions (about 20) and if you need more time to practice your landing or take off technique during your BT, you can do more touch and goes. If you are not okay the first time, you'll get rostered for another sim session before going back for another BT. They won't charge you for extra time.

cbsflyer

4th Jan 2017, 13:42

Is it possible to use another tax advisor as mcginley propose? My wife is a tax advisor and I would like use their skills and she recommend me to use a ltd. company based in my home country instead of an irish ltd. Has anybody experience with this?

gene88

4th Jan 2017, 21:05

would be very interesting to know that, at the moment they just give the fastest way to setup the Ltd and everything, and because we are pilot not accountants, we just take it and that's it.

PFDriver

5th Jan 2017, 01:05

I happen to know about someone whom they decided was not good enough after 250H of line flying and was called to Dublin for tea and biscuits. First time passes in everything before FR, a couple not so good evaluations during the type, a few not so good evaluations during line training and got called to Dublin...for the first and last time. Anyway I only know this one guy who faced this scenario.

I also happen to know twenty or thirty other cases who started on day 1 and have been living happily ever since! And let's face it, for today's standards 29500€ is not that bad compared to your other comparable options when fresh out of flight school (close to none).

I believe it really depends on your effort after you pass the interview, a process in which no one seems to understand what their criteria is though.