Possible Boeing 777 Part Found Off Mozambique

[theAP]

Just started getting Twitts on this,more here
Missing MH370: Possible Boeing 777 Part Found Off Mozambique, Sources Say - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/missing-mh370-possible-boeing-777-part-found-mozambique-sources-say-n530066?cid=sm_tw&hootPostID=87e02abb295afc27b7a550810044a33f)

[Less Hair]

So a "blogger" is searching the african coastline for parts of MH370 or who found it?

[readywhenreaching]

pics anyone ?

[lomapaseo]

what is the relationship of this to the other long running thread, conflict or confirmation?

[Taildragger67]

MH370: Likely piece of doomed plane found - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/02/us/mh370-possible-debris-found/index.html)

[Nemrytter]

MH370: Likely piece of doomed plane found - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/02/us/mh370-possible-debris-found/index.html)Judging by their use of the word 'doomed' those journalists obviously don't have English as a first language.:ugh:

[cressidom]

Sensationalism ? Always doom & gloom :uhoh:

[Dave's brother]

I was interested to learn that Malaysia is where Malaysian Airlines is based.

Who says CNN's journalism is crap?

[CONSO]

U.S. officials close to the investigation told CBS News the debris found several days ago is from a Boeing 777, the type of aircraft MH370 used.
The debris is a "fixed leading edge right hand stabilizer," part of the small wing-like portion of the tail section of the plane, the officials said, adding that it was being transported to Malaysia. American officials confirmed the debris was from a Boeing 777 based on images taken of the part.
A spokesman for the Joint Agency Coordination Center told CBS News that the center was aware of the discovery of the debris found in the southeast African nation, and that they were working with officials in both Malaysia and Mozambique to investigate.


MH370 search probes report of possible plane debris in Mozambique amid hunt for Malaysia Airlines jet - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mh370-report-plane-debris-mozambique-hunt-for-malaysia-airlines-jet/)

(http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-disappearance/)

[oldoberon]

so if it was on a sand bar what chances other bits stuck in it below waterline or passed it by to hit mainland Mozambique

[The Ancient Geek]

Given the time involved and the known currents in the Indian Ocean it is likely that floating debris could now be arriving on the east coast of southern Africa.

It is unlikely, however, that such debris could yield any significant clues to the location and causes of the accident.

[MG23]

It is unlikely, however, that such debris could yield any significant clues to the location and causes of the accident.

It could still be extremely useful if it could give a strong indication that the aircraft spiralled into the sea, or that it glided to a low-speed ditching under human control. In the latter case, for example, it's unlikely to be in the planned search area.

I'm not sure how that would be possible, though.

[Yankee Whisky]

pics anyone ?
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/K522S5gUohIURUt4iLKUqw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODM2O2g9NjA0/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/42204fb654994af5598d668ef46cd8af

[susier]

Would the fact that these two pieces have been found in reasonably close proximity to one another, perhaps increase the probability (if it is from the aircraft concerned) that the flaperon found earlier departed the structure at the same time as this part?


There was some prior speculation that the flaperon may have departed during flight, and drifted to La Reunion from a location separate from that of the main wreckage.


I expect either scenario remains plausible.

[susier]

Some close up photographs posted on Twitter by Victor Iannello:


https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics?lang=en-gb


If this is indeed the part, it shows a notable absence of barnacle colonisation compared to the flaperon.

[Chronus]

If this turns out to be wreckage off MH370, then I would have thought it must follow that its point of recovery would be of crucial importance to the search efforts. It may result in a change of methodology from that based on the Inmarsat satellite data analysis to one with much greater emphasis on an analysis of Ocean surface currents in the Indian Ocean.

The first find, which has since been confirmed as belonging to MH370, was located on an island lying off the Eastern waters of Madagascar. This second find has been located off the Western waters of Madagascar. Both far North and West from the current search area.


"Indian Ocean Currents
Indian Ocean currents follow generally the pattern of the
Atlantic and Pacific but with differences caused principally
by the monsoons, the more limited extent of water in the
Northern Hemisphere, and by limited communication with
the Pacific Ocean along the eastern boundary. During the
northern hemisphere winter, the North Equatorial Current
and South Equatorial Current flow toward the west, with
the weaker, eastward Equatorial Counter current flowing
between them, as in the Atlantic and Pacific (but somewhat
south of the equator). But during the northern hemisphere
summer, both the North Equatorial Current and the
Equatorial Counter current are replaced by the South west
Monsoon Current, which flows eastward and
south eastward across the Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal.
Near Sumatra, this current curves in a clockwise direction
and flows westward, augmenting the South Equatorial
Current, and setting up a clockwise circulation in the
northern part of the Indian Ocean. Off the coast of Somalia,
the Somali Current reverses direction during the northern
hemisphere summer with northward currents reaching
speeds of 5 knots or more. Twice a year, around May and
November, westerly winds along the equator result in an
eastward Equatorial Jet which feeds warm water towards
Sumatra.
As the South Equatorial Current approaches the coast of
Africa, it curves toward the southwest, part of it flowing
through the Mozambique Channel between Madagascar and
the mainland, and part flowing along the east coast of
Madagascar. At the southern end of this island the two join
to form the strong Agulhas Current, which is analogous to
the Gulf Stream. This current, when opposed by strong
winds from Southern Ocean storms, creates dangerously
large seas."
The full text of the above may be found at:

http://msi.nga.mil/MSISiteContent/StaticFiles/NAV_PUBS/APN/Chapt-32.pdf

This may suggest a debris drift from North to South/South West. I cannot quite see how such a drift pattern would fit the current search location.

[jugofpropwash]

I was interested to learn that Malaysia is where Malaysian Airlines is based.


But one can never assume. By that reasoning, Virgin Airlines.... well.... :eek:

[KiloB]

That Part looks remarkably clean for something that has been in the Ocean that long! And the finder already has a 370 Blog. Huum!
But then I'm a cynic.
KB

[OXCART]

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/K522S5gUohIURUt4iLKUqw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODM2O2g9NjA0/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/42204fb654994af5598d668ef46cd8af

Thats not it. That's the Flaperon found on Reunion Island in July 2015.

https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics/status/705075801008373760

https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics/status/705116445420556288

https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics/status/705108219648036864

[Maxan_Murphy]

HLI0I3-6

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CckgKTnVAAAy65V.jpg




http://www.jet-tek.com/hi-lok-pins/hl1013.pdf


http://i.imgur.com/HopRimH.png

http://i.imgur.com/fjzKSEa.png

[Yankee Whisky]

Thats not it. That's the Flaperon found on Reunion Island in July 2015.

https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics/status/705075801008373760

https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics/status/705116445420556288

https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics/status/705108219648036864



Indeed and I stand to be corrected. The "No Step" part certainly looks very clean, but that could be caused by sand and the part's movements in waves.

[jfill]

From this link it looks like the new debris was found just off the coast of Mozambique near the town of Vilankulos and south of Benguerra Island.

http://www.society-magazine.fr/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Blaine-4.jpg

Paluma Sandbank
Latitude: 22° 2'57.87"S
Longitude: 35°30'22.81"E

[I spy]

Does anyone have a schematic showing all "No Step" locations on a B777?

[CONSO]

For those who wonder what the VS stands for - the answer is VOI-SHAN a long time supplier of aerospace standard fasteners.

The HL1013- 6 means simply a 6AL-4V TITANIUM FASTENER 6/32 DIA ( 3/16 )

Thousands of those in 3/16 to 3/8 diameter have been used on most every model and manufacturer of airplanes or missiles for decades. They are batch inspected and certified, and carry NO serial or batch number.

I mention this only to tamp down the ' can we trace that fastener to a particular part or airplane or location ?"


The answer is NO (absent ID of surrounding part(s) )- :8

There is Nothing unique about that particular fastener oher than its material compared to others of high strength steel (s).

[PoppaJo]

You've got 9 Markings on each horizontal stab.

I'd say it looks pretty credible from having flown it in the past, looking at the size of I'd be leaning towards the leading edge part of the horizontal stabiliser, more inner pieces towards the fin.

[deanm]

Reports are emerging that this debris *may* be part of the leading edge of the right horizontal stabiliser: Link (http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/possible-mh370-debris-found/news-story/9de477d56193434e5cccc7e7cff09499)

Given that the previously-recovered flaperon is confirmed as coming from the right hand wing, it is overly-tempting to speculate as to what the aircraft might have been doing (or its orientation) when these detached.

Had this ('likely') 2nd bit of airframe come from the opposite side, such speculation would be harder to entertain: 50:50 chance or some other indication...

Dean

It may also be noteworthy that the Dec. 2015 JACC/ATSB report (http://jacc.gov.au/media/reports/2015/december/report001.aspx) proposed that the right-hand engine would probably be the 1st to flame-out in a fuel-starvation scenario, with the left-hand engine delivering thrust for up to a further 15 minutes.

[AreOut]

same font as MH17

mh17-onderzoek-8.jpg (http://www.marcelvandenbergh.com/categorie/totaal-archief/2/mh17-onderzoek-8-jpg)

[Delta Torque]

As someone mentioned, this recent piece has no barnacle encrustation. You could speculate an inflight breakup, and this piece falling on the land, and not spending any time in the sea.


A major coincidence though, with the blogger finding the piece.

[Abelard]

" falling on the land, and not spending any time in the sea"

Or washing up relatively quickly, and going undiscovered until now...though that seems unlikely given the proximity of the two sites.

[Airbubba]

Some close up photographs posted on Twitter by Victor Iannello:


https://twitter.com/RadiantPhysics?lang=en-gb


If this is indeed the part, it shows a notable absence of barnacle colonisation compared to the flaperon.

As someone mentioned, this recent piece has no barnacle encrustation. You could speculate an inflight breakup, and this piece falling on the land, and not spending any time in the sea.


A major coincidence though, with the blogger finding the piece.

Victor Iannello's twitter feed linked in susier's post has a recent CNN phone interview with Blaine Alan Gibson where Mr. Gibson is not overly convinced that his discovery is a part of the missing MH370 aircraft.

I find it more than a little suspicious that Gibson charters a boat in Africa to look for MH370 debris and the boat owner finds this apparent aircraft piece himself and calls Gibson to come see. Is this perhaps a piece from a recent African crash that was placed on the sandbar to be 'discovered' by the visitor?

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Gibson was apparently on the boat, which he had hired. The artifact was first seen by the boat's owner, according to this Google Translate version of part of the link posted by jfill, 2nd Mar 2016, 21:22 :

MH370 : un nouveau débris au Mozambique ? | Society Magazine (http://www.society-magazine.fr/mh370-un-nouveau-debris-au-mozambique/)

" 'I was traveling to Mozambique, he recounts today for the first time in Maputo I took the opportunity to say: why not not rent a boat and take a day to inspect the coast?'

Hours after his departure with three Mozambicans, the owner of the boat, 'Junior', calls Blaine. 'He pointed a finger something. It was a piece of plastic, light enough. Above, it is registered NO STEP '. The piece, triangular, measuring 94 centimeters wide and 60 centimeters high. It seems, says Blaine Gibson, come 'from the wing of an airplane.' "

[rockdoc]

Gibson was apparently on the boat, which he had hired. The artifact was first seen by the boat's owner, according to this Google Translate version of part of the link posted by jfill, 2nd Mar 2016, 21:22 :

MH370 : un nouveau débris au Mozambique ? | Society Magazine (http://www.society-magazine.fr/mh370-un-nouveau-debris-au-mozambique/)

" 'I was traveling to Mozambique, he recounts today for the first time in Maputo I took the opportunity to say: why not not rent a boat and take a day to inspect the coast?'

Hours after his departure with three Mozambicans, the owner of the boat, 'Junior', calls Blaine. 'He pointed a finger something. It was a piece of plastic, light enough. Above, it is registered NO STEP '. The piece, triangular, measuring 94 centimeters wide and 60 centimeters high. It seems, says Blaine Gibson, come 'from the wing of an airplane.' "
At least someone is actively looking in likely places wreckage will wash up.

I wonder if that is a smaller fragment of a larger piece that may have broken up in surf?

[Airbubba]

Gibson sounds pretty skeptical in the CNN interview:

Gibson told CNN his "heart was pounding" when he first saw the wreckage, but expressed caution.

"The chances are pretty slim that it's the plane we are interested in," he said.


In the true journalistic tradition of keeping an open mind ;) the CNN headline is 'MH370: Likely piece of doomed plane found, U.S. official says'.

MH370: Likely piece of doomed plane found - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/02/us/mh370-possible-debris-found/index.html)

[deanm]

Can any of you aeronauts shed light on why the media are typically referring to this new debris as being from the 'fixed leading edge'?

I thought the entire horizontal tailplane (aka 'horizontal stabiliser') was trimmable (i.e. a THS).

Dean

PS: No jokes please about it once being 'broken' & now 'fixed', thanks...

[andrasz]

I'm sure the material, the remaining fastener as well as the position and spacing of the fastener holes would enable any expert to uniquely identify the aircraft model with no ambiguity. Similarly any marine biologist should be able to confirm or deny whether the piece spent a significant time in seawater or not.

Unfortunately even if it does get confirmed that it is a T7 part, and by inference almost 100% certain that it is from MH370, it gives almost no further information compared to what we already knew from the flaperon (except corroborating that evidence).

[MrPeabody]

Deanm,

The reference to fixed leading edge is to the permanently fastened panel sections (with hi-loks) as opposed to the removable access panels.

On the B777 there are fixed fiberglass panels between the stab leading edge and the torsion box; these are what they are referring to.

Not sure if the panels are fiberglass with aluminium honeycomb though. I thought the B777 doesn't use this type of honeycomb.

Can anyone shed light on the panel structure?

Peabody

[deanm]

Thanks PB - I think it might be useful to identify just where this 'No Step' region is located, but from your clarification (& if the media are using 'fixed' accurately [!!]), it sounds like it originates close to the aft fuselage, rather (say) mid-span.

'I Spy' (post #23) asked "Does anyone have a schematic showing all "No Step" locations on a B777?"

I second that.

Dean

[MrPeabody]

Deanm,

Generally the entire area outside the main torsion box is "no step".

Peabody

[Mike Flynn]

BBC showing this http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/A041/production/_88552014_mozambique1.jpg

[deanm]

PB - understood, but the 'No Step' stenciling provides a convenient physical locator tag.

Dean

[andrasz]

A good photo showing the T7 HS upper surface with the location of the NO STEP labels:

Photos: Boeing 777-31H/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Emirates/Boeing-777-31H-ER/1314410/L/)

[deanm]

Well found, Andrasz (I tried & failed!), but could you add/edit some arrows or labels? Image resolution means we can only see illegible markings.

Are there multiple 'No Step' signs along the entire span of the HS?

Can anyone identify where the recovered 'No Step' debris would normally be found (shape matching?).

Dean

[Buster Hyman]

As soon as I saw the No Step, I thought of the cargo hold.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/777-200cargohold.jpg

[A320FOX]

Someone who is more MARINE BIOLOGIST than us "TECHNICIANS" please shed some light on the absence of growth on this new part. Too many days in the water and I don't see barnacles and stuff growing on this piece. :8

[deanm]

Interesting call, BH!

However, the 'No Step' stencilling on the recovered debris is across one line, whereas your cargo drivebay photo signage appears (AFAICT) to be on 2.

Debris =
"No Step"

Cargo hold =
"No
Step"

Dean

[deanm]

A320FOX: I'm not a marine biologist (although I do have a PhD in biology), but I could imagine scenarios in which impact with the ocean & aircraft disintegration yielded leaked pools of floating oil, hydraulic fluid, residual fuel in APU feeds, etc.

If some (but not necessarily all) bits of airframe debris floated off in such pools, encrustation or colonisation by marine creatures may be significantly delayed.

Components forward of ruptured reservoirs or tanks (eg. flaperon) may become colonised, whereas empennage aft (e.g. HS) may not be.

For an authoritative answer, you would need a....marine biologist!

Additionally, Ppruners who could offer an opinion on the water-solubility or durability of such oily fluids may also provide guidance (eg. how long can oil slicks persist?)

Dean

[invaders]

MH17 left wing, if I remember well

https://fwtinw.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2p6MZqQnXMWpo1R5TRDhlN3xqCYDiMPajle16eFcX7Hp8BGVmoF6wqXbFeN dcrOrKbmlHJYj96YbaFTQUz8ZHBgXRCVHkZORFFRcLJvCwyrKg/MH-17-268a.jpg

[Buster Hyman]

Hi Dean.

Would need to gt a look inside an MH hold to kk how they display it. I also note that rivet line across the piece as well...maybe not something you'd see in the hold.

Anyway, just a thought. The material resembled the hold lining from memory.

:ok:

[Teddy Robinson]

if this indeed from a 777, the best corralation I have been able to achieve (scale and rotate in PS) places this item about 2/3 span out towards the tip of the HS, the fastener line coincident with the forward edge of the torsion box.
That would mean NO STEP is at the rear of the piece assuming the aircraft is travelling forwards.

[deanm]

Hi Dean.

Would need to gt a look inside an MH hold to kk how they display it. I also note that rivet line across the piece as well...maybe not something you'd see in the hold.

Anyway, just a thought. The material resembled the hold lining from memory.

:ok:

Buster: the cargo hold 'drivebay' image you posted above clearly shows multiple stencilled "No Step" (2 separate lines) along the length of the angled panels between cargo deck floor & fuselage wall.

(Unless MAS specified a peculiar interior paint job that differs from your image!)

Dean

[deanm]

if this indeed from a 777, the best corralation I have been able to achieve (scale and rotate in PS) places this item about 2/3 span out towards the tip of the HS, the fastener line coincident with the forward edge of the torsion box.
That would mean NO STEP is at the rear of the piece assuming the aircraft is travelling forwards.

Teddy: could you post pics of your PS debris + HS alignments?

Important stuff!

Dean

[Teddy Robinson]

Not sure I'm prepared to risk insulting the intelligence of fellow professionals by doing that, for starters the only scaling information I was able to use were the step markings themselves, and the piece would in any case be off the edge of the EK 777 tail image, but a quick play in photoshop and you will see where I'm coming from.

[NiclasB]

Teddy, as a mere PPL-I peasant with some image-manipulation capabilities, I'll take my chances... :8 :)

I agree that it is difficult to find much detail to scale by. This is my best effort to scale and align the debris at the three positions I could find.

http://www.pprune.org/members/311051-niclasb-albums-b777-mozambique-debris-picture216-b777rhspos123-scaled800.png
http://www.pprune.org/members/311051-niclasb-albums-b777-mozambique-debris-picture216-b777rhspos123-scaled800.png

The image shows the debris overlayed on the image with 35% opacity to make it possible to "see through" the overlay. The alignment is purely visual and 2D and does NOT compensate for the foreshortening in the EK image. However, in my mind it suggests that the most likely location of these three is the most inboard.

Will post follow-up with zoom.

Keep that flak coming...

[NiclasB]

Here is a zoomed-in image (to resolution of original debris image) that shows the inboard location:

http://www.pprune.org/members/311051-niclasb-albums-b777-mozambique-debris-picture217-b777debris1.png
http://www.pprune.org/members/311051-niclasb-albums-b777-mozambique-debris-picture217-b777debris1.png

Here is the same thing at 10% opacity that gives better opportunity to criticize my alignment ;):

http://www.pprune.org/members/311051-niclasb-albums-b777-mozambique-debris-picture218-b777debris1opaque10.png
http://www.pprune.org/members/311051-niclasb-albums-b777-mozambique-debris-picture218-b777debris1opaque10.png

(Thanks Rob for helping me to include the images.)

/Niclas

[deanm]

Wow!

NiclasB & Teddy - you are both *very* much overly-modest.

Teddy - your best match may be to 2/3 outboard (& NiclasB's efforts appear to replicate or at least also feature this), but Nic's near-fuselage overlay does not include the circular feature seen in the other 2 suggested locations.

This circular feature is absent in photos of the debris.

If this is the case, the forces involved in detaching the HS component from the airframe must have been sufficient to do so at the structure's strongest point - where it attaches to the fuselage (or spar-like through-tail structure).

(Ducking in advance of accusations of being an 'armchair expert'!)

Dean

[Buster Hyman]

Dean. I just wondered if MH (customers) or Boeing determined the printing in the hold but, it's a moot point. Teddy & NiclasB seem to have nailed it.

[deanm]

Dean. I just wondered if MH (customers) or Boeing determined the printing in the hold but, it's a moot point. Teddy & NiclasB seem to have nailed it.

Buster: the only silly question is the one not asked.

I doubt that any airline would give a hoot about how the guts of an aircraft were painted (other than to save weight or perhaps to accommodate first-owner language specifics, or 'Elf & Safety' requirements?), but I hope a Boeing person might indicate if this is a customer option.

I agree re. Teddy & NiclasB.

Dean

[Radix]

It is unlikely, however, that such debris could yield any significant clues to the location and causes of the accident.
I disagree. One piece found you don't know whether it's coincidence, statistical edge case, or average. Two pieces found can yield a significant increase in confidence of an answer, based on times and locations found combined with knowledge of prevailing currents. I agree though that it's not the smoking gun as far as precisely locating where the main wreckage lies, if there is such a thing.

Let's wait and see if they can confirm if it is from 370.

[PPRuNe Towers]

If you explore USER CP in the yellow bar at the top of the page you'll find you all have an album for uploading shots. Once in they have a url to include in posts.

Rob

[Teddy Robinson]

http://www.pprune.org/members/88632-teddy-robinson-albums-miscellaneous-picture219-1314410.jpg

[skippybangkok]

For those who wonder what the VS stands for - the answer is VOI-SHAN a long time supplier of aerospace standard fasteners.

The HL1013- 6 means simply a 6AL-4V TITANIUM FASTENER 6/32 DIA ( 3/16 )

Thousands of those in 3/16 to 3/8 diameter have been used on most every model and manufacturer of airplanes or missiles for decades. They are batch inspected and certified, and carry NO serial or batch number.

I mention this only to tamp down the ' can we trace that fastener to a particular part or airplane or location ?"


The answer is NO (absent ID of surrounding part(s) )- :8
(s).

Answer is "maybe"

Each metal batch is close but not identical. Analysis of trace elements can be compared to fasteners coming from same batch - assuming a sister plane used them and one can be removed for comparison

[dn88]

A good photo showing the T7 HS upper surface with the location of the NO STEP labels:

Photos: Boeing 777-31H/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Emirates/Boeing-777-31H-ER/1314410/L/)

I happen to be that photographer.

Here is a full resolution shot of the stab only.

http://s11.postimg.org/7ko677u2r/777_HS.jpg

P.S. No copying/distributing without my permission, thanks! Contact via PM if necessary.

[_Phoenix]

Answer is "maybe"
Completely agree. If it would be an HL1023-6, an oversized used for repairs/reworks, that would be a "finger print" of an RNC that could be linked to a unique tail number.

[CONSO]

Answer is "maybe"

Each metal batch is close but not identical. Analysis of trace elements can be compared to fasteners coming from same batch - assuming a sister plane used them and one can be removed for comparison

Sorry charlie - you need to understand how such fasteners are produced - stored and disbursed. They are ordered months/years in advance of use. They are produced and shipped perhaps on a monthly basis and put into ' temporary' storage by the boxfull. A given production shipment to Boeing of that same fastener could be split into two or three or four batches- at boeing that would be 737, 747, 767, 777 for example since some are used on every model- and part of the supplier production batch might be shipped to one of a " half" dozen suppliers just for Boeing. Other parts of that supplier production batch may well be shipped to St louis, lockheed, Airbus, etc.

But after splittting the " Boeing batch "and being sent to renton or everett or part of the batch being sent to a supplier(s) they are temporairly stored in the closest plant/assembly area before being daily put into ' nearby' to assembly rotobins- replenished at least daily or every other day dependinng on parts, assembly, production rates, etc. Some of the same fasteners in that rotobin ( for example at the ' bottom ' ) may well be three to six months old for a given model.

So a chem/sprectro analysis may well show ' family brother" fasteners of that size- batch on most any part of any plane going back from weeks to months just at Boeing- and possibly any other aerospace company in the world.
IOW- as I first stated, absent a unique flaw in that fastener or out of tolerance composition, tracing that fastener to a ' sister' ship has a VERY low but not quite ZERO probibility of being useful.:ugh:

[Chronus]

Assuming this latest find is also from MH370, hard to imagine both bits ascended
from 15,000` or so depths. More likely these separated on impact with water. On such a premise there must be other debris afloat. What are the chances that just these two bits came off and the rest went down all in one piece. Perhaps time to call it a day, get heads out of the water, stick specs back on and start using eyeball MK1.

[Teddy Robinson]

with thanks to dn88 and the caveat "IF THIS IS FROM A 777"
after scaling to the 35 foot semi span of the HS, the recovered item appears to match a position immediately adjacent to the fuselage.

TR

[Band a Lot]

Not sure of final paint process but is it possible to match the flaperon with this section via the paint?

[deanm]

Good call, Bandy.
In another life, I used to be a State Govt. forensic scientist.
Paint matching is absolutely routine.
Examples include paint fragments recovered from a suspect's clothes with that from crime scene window frames or sills, paint particles identified in car collisions (with buildings, other vehicles, victims of hit-&-runs) etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro-spectrophotometry

Should be entirely possible.
Dean

(Of course, the flaperon and wing may have been painted at different times or locations, but the paint batches involved should be traceable - they would paint a whole bunch of flaperons at the same time with the same spectroscopically-identifiable batch)

[MrSnuggles]

Couldn't we compare it to pics of the MH17?

Good zoom up here:

http://s52.radikal.ru/i138/1407/df/6f1e4e04c96f.jpg

and here:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/75/28/f6/7528f6efaa423f5fcc84ea10390fb312.jpg

overview:

http://s019.radikal.ru/i641/1407/f6/4b8bb5407361.jpg


All these pictures originates from Jeroen Akkermans wealth of photograpic information on Flickr.

[deanm]

Snuggy - there seems to be a consensus emerging that Teddy & NiclasB have (in the words of another) 'nailed it' (if you are referring to the airframe location of the 'NO STEP' debris).

Dean

[MrSnuggles]

deanm

That might very well be the case. I just wanted to give new ideas into the mix.

The found part is apparently compared to an Ethiopian airframe - are we sure the markings are the same across all airframes? Same font?

Just wanted to show how a very definitively Malaysian B777 was marked. For future reference if nothing else.

[deanm]

deanm

That might very well be the case. I just wanted to give new ideas into the mix.

The found part is apparently compared to an Ethiopian airframe - are we sure the markings are the same across all airframes? Same font?

Just wanted to show how a very definitively Malaysian B777 was marked. For future reference if nothing else.

Understood, Snuggy: without discussion of 'new ideas', we are stuck with only 'old ideas'!

Dean

[PPRuNe Towers]

The thread can reopen when there's some actual news

Rob