paying a safety pilot

[outlandishoutlanding]

there might be situations in life and flying where you want or need someone in the right hand seat next to you; and this person in the right hand seat may need to be a pilot. this isn't just for simulated IMC; for example, you might only have a RAMPC and want to carry more than one pax.

in that sort of situation, there is only one PIC, and that PIC is you; the safety pilot is not part of the flight crew at all (for single pilot aeroplanes). they are just there in case you conk out for an unknown reason.

in this particular situation, are you permitted to pay your safety pilot? does it matter if they have a CPL or not, given that they are not actually flying the aeroplane? do they need an AOC?

if you don't need a safety pilot, but want one for the warm and fuzzy feeling, can you then essentially pay someone to be your passenger? (assuming that everything you are doing is within the privileges of your license).

is the answer different in RAAus aircraft, where the range of OPS permitted is more limited? and in an RAAus aircraft, can you pay an instructor to be your pax, if they don't log the time in their logbook? (so that you are PIC, and they are just a pax)

and finally, in RAAus aircraft, how do you get around the provisions of CAO 95.55, which says

(ii) if the aeroplane has been wholly built and assembled by a commercial manufacturer — flying training to enable a person to obtain a pilot certificate;

The way I read that, once you have a pilot certificate from RAAus, you are no longer permitted to have any dual training in flying school aircraft, or in any factory-built aircraft - you may only receive dual instruction in a homebuilt that you have built yourself. (ie you cannot buy a homebuilt and receive instruction in it.)

[mcgrath50]

If you are paying your mate in a couple of cartons of beer and free flying hours, then I think everyone is happy.

If you are paying someone off the street a dollar amount per hour, then you might run into some legal problems.

Disclaimer: CASA has probably made all flying illegal, so this isn't kosher advice but more what is in the spirit of the regs.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Sorry Mr Mac,

With respect, your statement should read -

"But more of what should be in the spirit of the regs"....

Cheers:ok:

[waren9]

in that sort of situation, there is only one PIC, and that PIC is you; the safety pilot is not part of the flight crew at all (for single pilot aeroplanes). they are just there in case you conk out for an unknown reason.

in this particular situation, are you permitted to pay your safety pilot? does it matter if they have a CPL or not, given that they are not actually flying the aeroplane? do they need an AOC?

if you don't need a safety pilot, but want one for the warm and fuzzy feeling, can you then essentially pay someone to be your passenger?

i dont understand

either you're fit and competent or you're not?

[Derfred]

My initial reaction was "only in Australia"...

But, on reflection, perhaps the OP has a reason for asking this question. One that comes to mind could be diabetes. I believe that in certain circumstances CASA allows one to fly privately with diabetes but only with another qualified pilot at a control seat. It makes sense - the PIC is more likely to become incapacitated than the average Joe.

So, if that's the case, can one pay another pilot to be there? I don't see why not. It does not contravene any regulation that I can think of. You are not paying for "dual" or flight instruction of any kind so the other pilot does not need to be operating commercially under any form of AOC. Nor is the other pilot operating an aircraft for pay or reward. If they have to take over, then that would fall under the category of "an emergency", and the rule book goes out the window.

An alternative scenario might be an elderly pilot, still capable according to CASA and the DAME, but Mum won't let little Jonny fly with Grandad unless he has another pilot with him, because Mum is a freak and doesn't trust Grandad even if CASA does. Grandad really wants to take Jonny for a fly and is happy to pay someone to keep Mum happy. Does that someone have to be a flight instructor or can Grandad pay Bruce from down the road?

Perhaps CASA has spent so much time worrying about people paying private pilots that they never considered private pilots paying people to fly with them. Like the time I hired a hooker with the intent of joining the mile high club and we got to 6000 feet and then she... Oops sorry, I'll get my coat.

[Aussie Bob]

My initial reaction was "only in Australia"...

Mine too Derfred, mine too. Only in Australia would someone ask this question and only in Australia would there be reasons why the question needs to be asked.

Outlandish, find a trustworthy pilot, pay them cash, both of you keep quiet about it, job done.

[Duck Pilot]

Buy the other pilot lunch, dinner, offer to pick him/her up, etc, etc?

Other pilot won't able to log the flight.

Good question in either case. Just try and keep the solution simple.

If your operating in an aero club or flying school environment, I doubt you will have trouble sourcing some flying buddies who would expect nothing.

[outlandishoutlanding]

i dont understand

either you're fit and competent or you're not?

perhaps you got passed on the RAA XC exam when there were still some doubts in your head as to your own flying abilities.

or you want to fly maneuvres that are in the POH, that you were taught to do once upon a time, but not in this aircraft, and you want to log the time as PIC.

but the real question was whether, once you've got all your endorsements etc, having an RAA instructor with you in the plane is legal according to CAO 95.55, or if they must be the passenger that you pay for (since they can't legally give you instruction).

[fujii]

Flying schools already offer courses for a pilot's companion to land an aircraft in an emergency. The only difference here is that the flying companion holds a licence. What does it matter if you reward him/her in some way?

[Squawk7700]

It appears that the regulations are clearly written to prohibit payment to the PIC, but there is no reference to the passengers being paid for the flight. Assuming that the pilot is qualified to conduct the flight, then there is no inference that the passenger is being paid to be a "pilot."

Your 95.55 questions should be directed to the operations manager or their assistant. If what you are thinking is correct, that would mean that all RA-Aus FTF's are operating in breach of 95.55.

[triton140]

and finally, in RAAus aircraft, how do you get around the provisions of CAO 95.55, which says

(ii) if the aeroplane has been wholly built and assembled by a commercial manufacturer — flying training to enable a person to obtain a pilot certificate;


That only applies if part (i) - ie private operations - doesn't apply. In other words, you can use an RA aircraft for private operations but you can't use it for commercial operations (other than flying training in a factory built).

[Lead Balloon]

If it's a single pilot aircraft and you are legally able to be, and are, the PIC, you can pay anyone you like anything you like to be a 'safety pilot' and it won't turn the flight into a commercial flight. (But it can't be a scam to cover up an instructor delivering flying training.)

Heck, if you own the aircraft you can pay a private pilot anything you like to be PIC and fly you as a passenger around the countryside for your leisure. That is a private operation.

[outlandishoutlanding]

That only applies if part (i) - ie private operations - doesn't apply. In other words, you can use an RA aircraft for private operations but you can't use it for commercial operations (other than flying training in a factory built).

it's the second part that confuses me: "to enable a person to obtain a pilot certificate".

if I already have a pilot certificate, and the instructor is training me (and logging it as PIC, with me logging it as dual) then the training is not to enable me to obtain a pilot certificate; those are technically illegal commercial ops.

if, however, I am PIC and the instructor is a paid passenger, the whole thing is a private op, but the instructor cannot log hours.

so yes, it's a loophole, but it seems to be the only way, in an RAAus aeroplane, that you can have an instructor next to you, once you have a pilot certificate.