KLMuk / CABAIR Sponorship info........

[theunknown]

Would like to gather as much information about the scheme as possible, answers to any of the following questions would help.

What are the minimum requirements for selection?

Is all the training done up at Cranfield or is any done in the States and is accomadation provided?

How long are you bonded to KLMuk for?

What exactly do you fly, the F50 / 100 or Buzz' 146 / 737?

Do you get a choice of base or is it STN for all and is it just AMS and back?

What is the starting salary like as an F.O at KLM and as an instructor at Cabair?

Is it full or part sponsorship?

Is preference given to previous Cabair PPL students?

What exactly does the course comprise of and how long does it take from start to finish, I believe the course is a year and then 2 years instructing...is this correct?

What do you come out with at the end the course...Frozen ATPL or CPL/IR(multi??) and an instructors rating?

Thanks for all your information and feel free to add anything else that you feel might be of help. Many thanks and good luck to everyone else!

[jetqualified]

Need 150 Hrs Total 95 P1/imc
If You are taken it should be a min 2 years instructing which has a tendency to increase to beyond 2 years ( i.e feels like 10 years but is about 3-4 years, pay feels like 1 year)
Then you are held in a pool or your KLMuk contract is terminated and you look for other employment. If you are the 1 in 50 who KLMuk take on you wait for an F50 course for 3-4 months, then you fly the masterful Fokker 50 for two years. (proper airplane)!!! Then, so I am told, you progress onto the jet.
All in all, KLMuk very good, Cabair, well.... if you can handle the first three years, then a good and cheap way of obtaining an ATPL.

[Barney Stubble]

Jet Qualified...
Jet qualified you are obviously not, times have changed since you were rejected for the KLMuk/Cabair sponsorship.

The Unknown..

I'm happy to post a reply to help any wanabee interested in KLMuk sponsorship.

Requirements: 180 hrs TT, 100 P1, Night Rating, IMC. Reason - You need 100 hrs P1, plus 5 night for CPL issue, also 200 hrs to do the AFIC (with 25 hrs CPL course 180 at joining is sufficient), and IMC to be a Cabair Instructor anyway.

Training: all at Cranditz, 5 months modular groundschool for ATPL, 3 months (weather permitting) for CPL and AFIC. RTB Cranditz after 1 year for multi rating, then at 2 years for IR, MCC. Type rating usually in Maastricht.

Commitment: Contract states 18 to 30 months as Instructor, 3 years bond to KLMuk subsequently. Cabair can send you anywhere to instruct, KLMuk can also base you anywhere from Stansted, Leeds, Norwich, Edinburgh, AMS, (possibly more), but you do get to state a preference (worked for some chaps).
All sponsored guys of late have been taken on after approx 2 years (one went to Brymon though), but with over 1000hrs, ATPL, CPL, IR, AFIC, MCC you will get a job anywhere, so don't worry about it.

Pay: at Cabair= what pay? at KLM F50 = £23k, F100, 146 = 33k. If rumour is correct the F50 will be no more by 2002/3, so if you join now straight to jets my boy!

At under 10k for the whole shooting match, this is a pretty decent sponsorship. Hope the info helps. Good luck with the application.

[GJB]

Is this sponsorship being advertised again?

[jetqualified]

Jet qualified went straight from aoc flying on to a nice shiny JET! and was never turned down for a sponsorship with KLMuk. Only from other peoples experience within the industry have i learnt from there anguish! I am very happy that it worked for you.
How come someone went to Brymon, i thought you where bonded to KLMuk? Merely a question.

[Honest Frank]

All is not so rosey-
If interested and you do get to the final stages of selection, I would suggest you visit the instructors at the sCabair schools to get their up to date experience.
I know many KLMuk sponsored pilots who either were put into a holding pool indefinately(they subsequently went on to gain employment with other airlines-not good if you were led to believe that there would be a job waiting for you only to be thrown onto the shelf with all other job applicants and fighting for interviews)or were told that a F50 course would be available in 3-4 months (after gaining their I/R).

Sounds ok having a job available but for those months waiting who pays the bills?

Another point worth making is that the sponsored KLMuk pilots earn considerably less than that quoted once they start with KLMuk - approx £300 less each month.Not good if you are going to be based away from home.And you are up to your neck in debt.

Remember-

Whilst at Cranfield training for the first 6 months you earn £0.
Whilst working as an instructor for the next 2+ years you won't be earning bundles of cash especially in winter months.
Whilst back at Cranfield again doing your I/R you will earn £0.
So during these first few years you will build up some debt only to be on a reduced wage WHEN and IF you start with KLM uk.

[MaxProp]

dont know about the brymon guy but klm reneged on some contracts and a few ended up at BE

[Honest Frank]

The Brymon guy was sCabair sponsored.
Those that were let down totalled 9.
3 went to British European
2 went to JMC
2 went to British Midland
1 went Aer Lingus
1 went to British Regional
So some did do really well- straight onto 737s or Airbus. But again they would have been put onto the pile with all other applicants.

Its a chance that sometimes has to be taken I suppose to get into the industry.

But be warned- Scabair are not a nice company and there are some real brown nosers working for them.

[Barney Stubble]

Jet Qualified it seems I was mistaken regarding your background - no offense intended.

Yes I know the story has not been all roses with Cabair/KLMuk, but guys have come out of it well because the training at Cabair is well respected in the industry. If KLM do not take on the guys after the 30 months, then I believe there is an understanding that you can get a job elsewhere and forget the bond - saving a few quid in the process.

I am on the sponsorship myself, and have had only positive experiences to date, others may no doubt paint a gloomier picture from their own expeience! But past performance is not necessarily a guide to the future.

At the end of the day, for all the previous faults of the scheme, it is undoubtedly a good way of getting into that first airline job, which is the main consideration here.

[jetqualified]

Cabair does offer good training, i personally
did ATPL'S at Cranfield with now CGI Paul Hardy ( Great Guy!!) I wish you well with Cabair/KLMuk and hope it works. It is like anything else it works sometimes and others times it does not!

[JT8]

Has anyone had better luck with the BE/Cabair scheme??

JT8 :)

[theunknown]

Barney Stubble, thanks for the information so far, it was all really helpfull but there are a few things i don't quite understand...

"Training: all at Cranditz, 5 months modular groundschool for ATPL, 3 months (weather permitting) for CPL and AFIC. RTB Cranditz after 1 year for multi rating, then at 2 years for IR, MCC. Type rating usually in Maastricht"

So do you mean the initial time at Cranfield is 8 months, followed by instructing then back to Cranfield for multi rating (how long? ) after 1yr at Cabair then instructing for another year then back to Cranfield again (for how long?)... then more instructing?

Also how is the best way to hour build from say 50hrs to 180?

And what is an AFIC?

Thanks for all the help...best of luck in the job!

[Barney Stubble]

The Unknown,

All correct apart from once you've done IR, MCC you should go direct to the airline.

Multi rating takes 1 month max, IR/MCC = 2 months.

AFIC is aeroplane flying instructor course.

50 to 180 hrs...get a night rating and IMC ASAP as very useful anyway, plus will teach you a lot about your own ability (instrument procedures etc) to be an airline pilot.

Your cheapest option is to go to Cabairs Florida PPL school (you could go anywhere in the US, but Cabair love it if you do your training with them, and cost is about the same anyway) - you will save approx 50% in money and 75% in time to get the ratings and hours, plus get a nice holiday. If money is not a problem, it is always useful to do some hours in old Blighty as airspace, RT, procedures, weather etc are very different to US.

I didn't go to the US, so you should probably find someone who has to find out what it is like, how long you need etc.

Good luck, and remember there are lots of sponsorships out there, so apply for them all! Nothing ventured...

[johntrav69]

AFIC=aeroplane flying instructor course
HAHAHA

[FalconJock]

Barney Stubble

You say earlier in this post that, as the F50s are being phased out, new entry pilots go straight onto jets.

I am in the holding pool with an August start and have been told that there are no direct jet starters and that I will start on a F50. If you know any different I would be very interested to hear.