Belfast

[eastern wiseguy]

First flight of the Shorts Belfast freighter aircraft - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-35598095)

Thought you might enjoy this.

[SpringHeeledJack]

"Can transport 200 fully armed soldiers to the other side of the world with all necessary speed….." ;)

[27mm]

By the time we reached the French FIR, scurvy had broken out among the crew.....

[barnstormer1968]

Hmm.
Not just 'all necessary' speed but a whole 500mph!

[Basil]

Yes, the 500mph claim sounds like the Mediterranean sea temperatures we were promised around Hunterston Power Station :rolleyes:

[Lyneham Lad]

Interesting to see that they were practising the 'curvature of the earth' take-off technique even on the first flight... ;)

[sandozer]

Production run of . . . . ten :eek:

[Octane]

Was it really that bad?

[MPN11]

It wasn't nicknamed "Belslow" for nothing. ISTR there were also significant drag issues around the rear ramp, leading to a mod installing a couple of large strakes.

But ... it was BIG and BRITISH :cool:

[bluetail]

I recall during 1982 at the start of Op Corporate and not long after the RAF had got rid of them, a couple turned up at Kinloss in Civvie guise to shift large amounts of Nimrod bits. Heavylift made a killing on Op Corporate work.

And didn't the Belfast hold some sort of record for moving outsize loads at one time.

[treadigraph]

A Heavylift Belfast delivered Doug Arnold's dismantled Liberator from India to Stansted in the 1980s - not sure if it was all in one go, but they certainly got the fuselage in. I imagine the C-5 and AN-124 are the only other aircraft that could manage that. And maybe the C-133?

[CoffmanStarter]

Worth giving this thread another outing :ok:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/483264-short-belfast-why.html

[treadigraph]

Phenomenal memory there Coffman! :ok:

[MOSTAFA]

I remember being extremely unimpressed by RAF Belfast crews when as a young paratrooper getting dicked as a baggage handler on a trip to Malaya in 1973/74? It took forever, 5 hours a day for almost a week to get there and then being abandoned by the crew as they departed for their 5 star hotels each night. Never ever forgave them for that.

[ACW342]

As a 15 year old cadet, I managed to get a b&w photograph of the first t/o on my parents box brownie from the nearby Holywood Rd. On the photo the aircraft is about 5mm long. Ten years later, as an ops assistant at RAF Kai Tak, I was THE vasf see off crew, seeing a Belsow out of slot 10. Very amusing of the LH driver to stick his head out the window as if reversing a very large truck (which, in essence, it was)

Two things to note.

1. In conversation in later life I was told that Shorts had offered a swept wing, jet engined design (C141 style) but that the MoD or whoever said that there were spare main spars (Britannia?) and turbo props available and were to be used in order to keep costs down. Whether true or otherwise I know not. However as someone once said, They were all counted out and counted back in. In other words, Ten aircraft into service and Ten aircraft out of service. I am Unaware of any other aircraft fleet that ended service with no losses.

2. On the formation of Heavy lift Air Cargo and its' fleet of Belfast aircraft, a telegram was sent to Lockheed Georgia informing there was now a civilian company with the capability of flying their C130 fuselages around the world.

[skua]

It also had the merit of providing jobs for Ulstermen, at a time when no sane company would locate a plant there.....

[VX275]

Mention of the use of Britannia spars reminds me that I have some old AATDC (as JADTEU used to be called) documents that discuss the 'new' transport aircraft being developed for the RAF which because it was to use the Britannia wing was to be called the Britannic.

[Haraka]

What finally ended up as the Belfast started off as the "Britannic" proposal in 1958, with basically a Britannia wing and tail surfaces with various engine options- the wingspan also growing by 20ft. There was a range of 6 Britannic variants proposed, the last with V.C. 10 type swept wings. The entire evolution saga was very complex and involved several companies.
Eventually a production of 30 was envisaged to make it viable. However once this was in progress the order was cut back to 10.
The Starlifter wing and tail version was a later proposal.

[Stanwell]

We're nearly to the end of the first page of this current thread and nobody's yet mentioned the last potentially airworthy one - the Belfast in Cairns.

It's sitting there - waiting for you...
Cairns airport in North Queensland - the owner is open to sensible offers, OK?

There are other Belfast threads on here, they're worth a look.

[Not a Crew Chief]

We're nearly to the end of the first page of this current thread and nobody's yet mentioned the last potentially airworthy one - the Belfast in Cairns.

It's sitting there - waiting for you...
Cairns airport in North Queensland - the owner is open to sensible offers, OK?

There are other Belfast threads on here, they're worth a look.
Stanwell,
Been there seen it.
As a young JT fresh out of Brat factory my first posting was Abingdon on Belfast Majors. Beagle must have been lurking around Shippon dispersal about the same time.
After our move back to Brize a couple of years later I got my only non airtest trip on the Deci Malta schedule. Convinced me I really did want to be a GE.
No matter how ugly and underperforming, your first is always your first.
The only thing that could bring me an RB211 for a TriStar in Dubai.
And had a moment to myself when I saw her at Cairns on holiday a few years ago

[dragartist]

On the BBC news last night, covering the Bombardier redundancy story there was B&W footage showing several frames under construction at Shorts. SWMBO was nattering so I did not take in the detail.
I also have one of the Loading data sheets we used to prepare at JATE.(long before my time there but like VX I try my best to preserve history from the skip. These were printed in colour on high quality paper.
Drag

[CoffmanStarter]

Good evening Drag ...

When I posted the URL of an earlier thread on the Belfast I wondered if you might have had a 'hand' in there somewhere :ok:

Hope you are well ...

Coff.

[dragartist]

No Coff, I never had a hand in this. Just doing my bit to preserve historical documents. You know I am still a young man. That said I did work on some of the same Canberras as my Dad, who you also met, worked on as a young man. The oldest aircraft I have undertaken design work on is the Alouette II. I remember seeing the Heavy Lift aircraft at Stansted IIRC back in 82 when I was doing a bit for CAAFU. Did we buy back the refuelling probes?
Perhaps the threads can be merged to keep the story together.

[CoffmanStarter]

I was referring to your JATE 'Skip Diving' ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

A Heavylift Belslow delivered a 57ft long periscope to ASI for onward delivery to FI. Now there was a reason for using the Belslow rather than a Herc - load length.

Flying down to FI with the tail gate open wasn't on. One of the movers had a great idea. The Top of the freight bay was long enough so the laid it on a platform so the ramp could be closed.

[Tankertrashnav]

Blimey, I used to have a sheepskin jacket just like that!

Was never a test-pilot though :(

[JW411]

Heavylift never operated a Belslow. By the time they got their hands on them they had all had the Fastback modification done.

[Madbob]

Here's a cut & paste from an earlier post of mine in October 2013 which some may not have seen. I think it makes an interesting comparison between three contemporaneous Western military transports.


I think that the Belfast's principal qualities were the length and increased cross-section of its cargo bay compared with the C-130. It was effectively 50% more in both dimensions.


It's weaknesses were that it was slow, lacked range as a strategic load lifter and it didn't have the versatility to match the tactical ability, rough field and STOL, offered by the C-130.


Had THOR, SKYBOLT and other missile programs not been cut then it would have been needed in more numbers and ergo, it's production run would have been longer and perhaps it's unit cost would have come down to a level to make other sales a viable possibility. We will never know, but the flight deck was enormous and from what I heard, it was liked by the crews that flew it.


MB




General characteristics - C133 Cargomaster


Crew: six (two pilots, two engineers, navigator, loadmaster)
Capacity: Designed as a logistics transport, the C-133 carried only small numbers of passengers, usually associated with the cargo.
Payload (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payload_%28air_and_space_craft%29): 110,000 lb (50,000 kg)
Length: 157 ft 6 in (48.0 m)
Wingspan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingspan): 179 ft 8 in (54.8 m)
Height: 48 ft 3 in (14.7 m)
Wing area: 2,673.1 ft² (248.34 m²)
Empty weight: 109,417 lb (49,631 kg)
Loaded weight: 275,000 lb (125,000 kg)
Max takeoff weight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_Takeoff_Weight): 275,000 lb (C-133A) / 286,000 lb (C-133B) (125,000 kg (C-133A) / 130,000 kg (C-133B))
Powerplant: 4× Pratt & Whitney T34 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pratt_%26_Whitney_T34&action=edit&redlink=1)-P-9W turboprops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboprop), 7,500 shp (5,586 kW) each
* Cargo deck : 86 ft 10 in (26.47 m)

Performance


Maximum speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds#Vno): 312 kt (359 mph / 578 km/h)
Cruise speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds#Vc): 280 kt (322 mph / 519 km/h)
Range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_%28aircraft%29): 3,560 nm with 52,000 lb (23,587 kg) payload (4,097 mi / 6,590 km)
Service ceiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceiling_%28aeronautics%29) 32,300 ft (9,800 m)

General characteristics - Belfast C Mk 1


Crew: Basic aircrew 4 (two pilots, engineer & navigator/radio operator) plus reserve crew
Capacity: 11,750 cu. ft.
Payload (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payload_%28air_and_space_craft%29): 80,000 lb (36,288 kg)
Length: 136 ft 5 in (41.70 m)
Wingspan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingspan): 158 ft 10 in (48.1 m)
Height: 47 ft (14.33 m)
Wing area: 2,466 ft² (229.1 m²)
Empty weight: 130,000 lb (59,020 kg)
Max takeoff weight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_Takeoff_Weight): 230,000 lb (104,300 kg)
Powerplant: 4× Rolls-Royce Tyne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Tyne) R.Ty.12, Mk. 101 turboprops, Hawker Siddeley Dynamics 4/7000/fully-feathering airscrews of 16 ft. diam., 5,730 ehp (4,270 kW) each

Performance


Cruise speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds#Vc): 358 mph (576 km/h)
Range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_%28aircraft%29): 5,200 miles (8,368 km) with capacity fuel load of 80,720 lb
Service ceiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceiling_%28aeronautics%29) 30,000 ft (9,100 m)
Rate of climb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate_of_climb): 1,060 ft/min (323 m/min)
Range with maximum payload: 970 miles (1,560 km)

General characteristics - C 130 H


Crew: 4-6: at least 2 pilots,1 flight engineer (eliminated in the J variant, replaced by crew chief), and 1 loadmaster; additional loadmaster and navigator are usually part of the crew
Capacity:

92 passengers or
64 airborne troops or
74 litter patients with 2 medical personnel

Payload (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payload_%28air_and_space_craft%29): 45,000 lb (20,000 kg) including 2-3 Humvees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Mobility_Multipurpose_Wheeled_Vehicle) or an M113 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113) Armored Personnel Carrier
Length: 97 ft 9 in (29.8 m)
Wingspan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingspan): 132 ft 7 in (40.4 m)
Height: 38 ft 3 in (11.6 m)
Wing area: 1,745 ft² (162.1 m²)
Empty weight: 83,000 lb (38,000 kg)
Useful load: 72,000 lb (33,000 kg)
Max takeoff weight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_Takeoff_Weight): 155,000 lb (70,300 kg)
Powerplant: 4× Allison T56-A-15 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_T56)turboprops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboprop), 4,300 shp (3,210 kW) each

Performance


Maximum speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds#Vno): 329 knots (379 mph, 610 km/h)
Cruise speed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds#Vc): 292 knots (336 mph, 540 km/h)
Range (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range_%28aircraft%29): 2,050 nm (2,360 mi, 3,800 km)
Service ceiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceiling_%28aeronautics%29) 33,000 ft (10,000 m)

[salad-dodger]

Heavy Lift were also employed by MoD during GW1. I can remember seeing them several times at Akrotiri on Bravo. I seem to remember seeing them transporting fuel bowsers on one occasion.

S-D

[harrym]

ACW342, ref your quote "Unaware of any other aircraft fleet that ended service with no losses" in your #15, what about the RAF VC10 fleet?

In service for almost fifty years (1966-2014), with only two 'losses' - XR809 to Rolls Royce for the RB211 project, and XR806 damaged Cat 5 due to a grossly mishandled de-fuelling procedure by Brize's Eng Wing. Neither were in any way flight-related, so I submit that the VC10's 48 years of RAF service could be termed morally, if not factually, loss-free.

harrym

[1.3VStall]

Harrym

I don't think the RAF ever lost a Britannia either.

[charliegolf]

Harrym

I don't think the RAF ever lost a Britannia either.

On 12 October 1967, "Sirius" a Royal Air Force C1 was damaged beyond repair after over-running the runway at RAF Khormaksar, Aden.

So says Wiki

CG

[Dougie M]

A bit off thread but I watched it from our Argosy squadron HQ. Apparently there was a glitch in the "superfine - brake dwell - full reverse" bit. The JAG and his entourage were on board and not well happy.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/09b28f1f-e485-40d3-b24e-fd97c94c735f_zpslv0anyrj.jpg

[Exnomad]

I worked on Belfast Simulator
I think it was Belfast that one of the pilots told us it was like flying a block of flats from a secoind story window,

[Double Hydco]

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag21/belfast97/x68aa_zps7ucwb43n.jpeg

I'll leave this here just for a bit of illustration....

DH

[Herod]

Dougie M. That photograph was taken by yours truly the following morning. You can see the shadow of my Wessex on it. Don't worry, it's not copyrighted. Brakedwell is the man who can explain exactly what happened.

[brakedwell]

Brakedwell is the man who can explain exactly what happened.

Sod's law at work I 'm afraid. A newly converted Captain with a new Flight Engineer. The F/E did not fully engage the reverse arm lever in it's detent, so forward thrust was active when he moved the throttles back. I understand several attempts were made to achieve reverse, each time compounding the problem with more forward thrust until they went off the end of the runway.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/aviation/Screen%20Shot%202016-02-23%20at%2011.22.16_zps26wrmhql.png