A request for the Guard Police

[belowMDA]

I was chugging along the other day when some poor soul made the unfortunate error of mistakenly transmitting on 121.5, cue immediately an indignant response from someone "you're on guard". Some seconds go by and obviously the first guy's not had the response expected so he transmits again. This time an even more indignant response from the other protagonist "you're on guard!!!" At this point, likely there were half a dozen pilots, whom had just transmitted, within a couple of hundred mile radius thinking "sh#t did I?"

I don't mind people telling others they are "on guard" because if it were me transmitting I'd like to know. So this is my thought (likely not an original one) if you hear someone transmitting on guard can you identify them first so they know exactly who it is you are referring to? I.e. "Victor Charlie Charlie you're on guard" instead of just "you're on guard". Is this too much to ask? Thanks.

[IsDon]

Agreed.

Along with a "mate" at the end.

We've all done it. We're all human.

I reckon, given the speed with some of the "guard nazis" seem to be able to respond to an incursion, that they are the ones driving around with guard selected on their transmit button. Leading me to the conclusion that it is these hypocrites that are the ones most likely to transmit on guard inadvertently in the first place.

[maggot]

I live for the day when a single call on guard results in a cacophony of a chain-reaction of 'on guard'! calls echoing around the globe....

A man can only dream

Until then, stay in your toes ladies and gentlemen! :}

[Capn Bloggs]

I don't monitor Guard down low because I don't want to be distracted but I do monitor abuse of the Australian Language here on Proon.

BelowMDA, I know Likely is being increasingly abused but this is ridiculous!

At this point, likely there were half a dozen pilots

:}

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Anonymous -

"Where are you?"

"Where are you?"

"Where are you?"

W@nker Aussie -

"You are on Guard mate"

Anonymous -

"There he his."
:p

[Out Of Trim]

Australian Language? :rolleyes::cool:

[billyt]

There is an operator close to SYD using 121.5 as an operational frequency.

[fujii]

As 121.5 is not called guard in AIP why would you expect an Australian pilot to know what you are talking about. AIP refers to it it as an emergency frequency and advises pilots to monitor it at certain times but no one in this country actually "guards" it. The military ATC may still monitor it but civil ATC doesn't.

[A Squared]

AIP refers to it it as an emergency frequency and advises pilots to monitor it at certain times but no one in this country actually "guards" it.

Ummm, "guard" means monitor. That's where the name comes from. If you're monitoring it, you're "guarding" it.

The military ATC may still monitor it but civil ATC doesn't.

Really? Aus civil ATC does not monitor 121.5?

[fujii]

Yes really.

[Capt Claret]

I'm not sure why the fuss about the "guard police".

A sixth sense usually alerts me a second or so after making the transmission, only rarely before. :{ But I'd much rather be advised, than not.

I doubt though, that I'd remember Victor Charlie Charlie's callsign often enough to say more than, en-guarde.

[A Squared]

I'm not sure why the fuss about the "guard police".

Yeah, I've never understood that either. I don't call "on guard", mostly because I usually don't have the audio situational awareness to tell which of the 3+ radios I monitor had received the errant transmission. And I'm not confessing to ever transmitting on guard, but if I had, I wouldn't get bent out of shape if someone pointed out I was on guard. Frankly, it saves me from sitting there wondering if Clearance Delivery is ever going to get back to me, and wondering why the delay. If I were to ever transmit on guard. Which I'm not confessing to.

[rmcdonal]

https://youtu.be/YoZE0nE60sk?t=3m12s

[kev2002]

Problem with telling someone they are on guard is that a lot of students or pilots new to GA don't know what "on guard" means. Telling someone (politely) they are transmitting on 121.5 is a better remedy.

What pi$$e$ me off is is professional pilots who use 123.45 for long-winded conversations

[propsmear]

"Living the dream"

[Capt Claret]

lot of students or pilots new to GA don't know what "on guard" means.

Do they have multiple comms and/or monitor guard? Surely if one is monitoring it, one will have an inkling.

rmcdonal, Excellent! :ok:

[Oakape]

The problem with the 'guard' police is that they don't listen to what is being said before they leap in with their smart-alec comments.


There are times when we, or another aircraft, have been asked by ATC to call on 121.5 to try & contact an aircraft they have lost comms with, only to have the 'guard' police jump in & inform us we are transmitting on guard. Well, no joke Sherlock! That is exactly what we intended to do.

[megan]

Ummm, "guard" means monitor. That's where the name comes from. If you're monitoring it, you're "guarding" it.Not quite. The term "guard" came into being when the American Coast Guard introduced an emergency frequency for shipping, so "guard" was shorthand that meant the "Coast Guard" emergency frequency. Aviation latter adopted the term to signify the emergency frequency.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

"Guard" must be another of those quaint american Chuck Yeagerisms that has crept in over the past few years. In 10 years behind the headset and microphone (admittedly quite a few years ago now), I never once heard any frequency referred to as "guard" or asked anyone to listen out or call someone on "guard".

[ChrisJ800]

Sydney Tower is 120.5 so I guess an easy mistake in the Sydney region?

[fujii]

A similar PPrune thread from 2003 suggested that it may have come about from pilots watching too many American movies and hearing the phrase "Oh my guard."

[A Squared]

Not quite. The term "guard" came into being when the American Coast Guard introduced an emergency frequency for shipping, so "guard" was shorthand that meant the "Coast Guard" emergency frequency. Aviation latter adopted the term to signify the emergency frequency.

I hadn't heard that explanation before. Which is a polite way of saying that I believe you're misinformed.

Take a look at this document from ARINC. (http://www.arinc.com/downloads/voice_services_operating_procedures.pdf) Being that ARINC pretty much exists exclusively for radio communications, I'd expect them to know something about it. In it you will find numerous references to "guarding" frequencies, maintaining a "guard" on a frequency, and which frequencies are "guarded" by what ground stations.

Oddly, there is not a single reference to the Coast Guard, US or otherwise.

It is perhaps even more instructive to take a look at what the US Coast Guard thinks the word "guard" means in the context of radiotelephone communications. Here is some course material from the US Coast Guard's school for radio operators (http://www.uscg.mil/petaluma/os_school/docs/understanding_communication_logs_rev3_apr08.pdf) Inside it you will find, much like the ARINC, numerous references to maintaining and logging radio "guards" One would imagine that the US Coast Guard's Radio Operator's school would know if "guard" was a reference to the Coast Guard. They appear to believe that it is not.

The term guard has a fairly specific meaning in radiotelephone communications. To "guard" a frequency, means to monitor a frequency *AND* be prepared to transmit on that frequency. IN aviation where almost all radios are transceivers, this may seem like a trivial distinction, but in other applications receivers and transmitters are tuned separately. One could monitor a frequency, with only a receiver tuned to that frequency, but to "guard" that frequency requires having both receiver and transmitter tuned.

So, yeah, the term has nothing to do with the US Coast Guard, it is a well established radio-telephony term with a very specific meaning.

[das Uber Soldat]

I don't monitor Guard down low because I don't want to be distracted but I do monitor abuse of the Australian Language here on Proon.

What is it with pilots and being muppets to each other. Every thread is some clown chipping another on a typo or garden variety grammatical error. Who cares, did you know what he meant? Have you never made one? What exactly is the end goal here? You're going to single handedly stop errors of language on the internet (whilst making your own, wtf is the 'Australian language')?

Good luck with that. :rolleyes:

[Capn Bloggs]

Ooooh Das, it's VD on Sunday, be nice!! I was just trying to do a bit of S stirring. Really sorry you didn't pick that up...

Claret, was that you in the video?

Frankly, it saves me from sitting there wondering if Clearance Delivery is ever going to get back to me, and wondering why the delay.
Err, the first thing you do if you don't get a reply is check you're on the correct freq,,,, isn't it?? ;)

[Pontius]

"Guard" must be another of those quaint american Chuck Yeagerisms that has crept in over the past few years. In 10 years behind the headset and microphone (admittedly quite a few years ago now), I never once heard any frequency referred to as "guard" or asked anyone to listen out or call someone on "guard".

I don't know what you mean by 'few years' but every military aircraft I've ever flown had Guard (G) as an option on the radios. That includes the Jet Provost, so it's not an American thing. The oldest photo I could find was of an old Hunter radio but I think they pass the 10 year test by more than a little :ok:

Old radio with 'G' (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F3158853613402546 46%2F&bvm=bv.113943164,d.dGo&psig=AFQjCNGQVEP4jguV2Aap8oUO1uECrHlMgQ&ust=1455257439383657)

[A Squared]

Err, the first thing you do if you don't get a reply is check you're on the correct freq,,,, isn't it?? ;)

I don't know, I've never been in that situation, but if I were, I suppose I might. :)

[das Uber Soldat]

Ooooh Das, it's VD on Sunday, be nice!! I was just trying to do a bit of S stirring. Really sorry you didn't pick that up...
Ok lets be friends again.

:}

[IsDon]

I remember the old comparison of the mindset of the three different services.

If a soldier is asked to "secure a building" he will assault it with gunfire.

If a sailor is asked to "secure a building" he would turn off the lights and lock all the doors.

If a RAAFie was asked to "secure a building" he would take out a 6 year lease with an option to buy.

Maybe the same thing's happening here with the term "guard". Now surely it can't be an American term. They would have spelt it "gard".

[IsDon]

OMG lets face it people. Flying heavy transport is as boring at bat$hit most of the time. I pounce at the opportunity to scream on 121.5 "ON GUARD!!!!!!" and then keep it going aslong as I can. Have a laugh already.

And for my next trick, I love to visit the blind Salvo collecting money on the corner, and go and piss in his collection tin. Real hoot that one.

Grow up moron!

[Capn Bloggs]

Hey Das, show Don the Bex cabinet will ya? :}