Security screening for tiny aircraft at tiny airports

[davidjohnson6]

Earlier this month I did a return trip Bremerhaven-Heligoland-Bremerhaven on a public flight. For those not familiar, Bremerhaven is a shipping port in north Germany with a tiny airport. Heligoland is a couple of specks of rock in the North Sea with a total population around 1500 that are economically dependent on the holiday trade. For UK residents, a comparison might be flying from Wick to one of the smaller Orkney islands.

The flight was a 9-seat aircraft. Reservations open to anyone with access to the Internet amd ability to pay cash at checkin desk - ie very much open to the general public.

At both airports security screening of pax was nil. No xray, no hand search, no arch, nothing. Now I completely accept the risk on a route to/from tiddly offshore island on a tiddly aircraft is very low. However this happened in a rich and longstanding EU membrr state.

So how does Germany get away with not needing to worry about security on a route where risk is almost nil, while tiny airports in Scottish island seem to select everyone for random extra checks ?

[Piltdown Man]

Because one country has a sensible attitude towards security and the other does not.

PM

[scr1]

The A/C is probably bellow the min size requiring screening. A saab 340 or J41 is the normal aircraft used to the isles which is not so is treated the same as a 747 going to JFK. The security rules are the same throughout europe.

[Hotel Tango]

I would guess that it's also a point-to-point flight with no onward international, and possibly even domestic, connections from either airport.

[T250]

On numerous holidays to USA, one could ask why there is also no security at all for the flights I had such as in skydiving aircraft, helicopter trips over NYC and Las Vegas as well as small (10 seater) aircraft flying to Grand Canyon.

Maybe it is just common sense. :D

[edi_local]

A few years ago I took 4 flights in one day, all Icelandic domestic. RKV-AEY-GRY and back. Not once did I go through any kind of security checks. The first and last legs were on Fokker 50s (both around 75% full) and the AEY-GRY and back was on a tiny piper chieftain. The Air Iceland legs were normal scheduled flights and the GRY legs were chartered for our group, but the route is also available to the general public. I don't think Grimsey airport even had security facilities as it is only open for that 1 flight to AEY. At AEY they only had security for international flights, which FI occasionally offer and Norlandair have a few flights to Greenland.

[NorthernChappie]

Kirkwall - Papa Westray - Westray was security free when I last did it. Don't know if its changed now.

[Hartington]

Juneau (state capital of Alaska) to Skagway, 100 (ish) miles and a Cessna Caravan, no security. Invercargill (South Island NZ) to Stewart Island on an Islander, no security.

I've always thought it was a risk assessment that caused no security.

[bsmasher]

Many flights round Australia don't start with screening. As in the EU it is the smaller airports with low capacity planes - Dash 8s and B1900s, However if one is flying on one of these into a major hub eg Sydney , Melbourne the arriving flight will put one outside the secure area thus needing screening before going into the 'normal' departures area for connections etc.

D.

[TCU]

Once flew the missus and folks Plymouth - Newquay and back (for lunch a Mr Steins place)

Had to go through the metal detectors and put the hand bags through the x-rays at both ends.......yes that's what we thought as well.

Take a Kenmore Beaver from San Juan back to Seattle and pleasingly the only security is the pilot checking there is no seaweed attached to the floats prior to departure

[Phileas Fogg]

On numerous holidays to USA, one could ask why there is also no security at all for the flights I had such as in skydiving aircraft, helicopter trips over NYC and Las Vegas as well as small (10 seater) aircraft flying to Grand Canyon.

Maybe it is just common sense.

Then why did they force the closure of Meigs Field in Chicago, can't imagine that anything bigger than 10 seats went in and out of there?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Then why did they force the closure of Meigs Field in Chicago, can't imagine that anything bigger than 10 seats went in and out of there?

I believe that the main motivator was political, in that the mayor had his eye on the delicious land that Meigs occupied and wanted to turn it into public land. There was the possible maybe threat of flying an aircraft into one of the skyscrapers, but….... You had the feeling at the time that if the runway had been a tick longer and it had allowed more bankers/financiers etc to use it, then it might still be there.

I took a feeder flight in the states in 2003, 4 passengers, was chatting pleasantly to the solitary gate agent/bag loader/marshaller/etc, all normal, yet I was chosen to be extra security checked (by him!). As said, it's all about common sense, but if there are procedures in place, one size fits all.



SHJ

[RevMan2]

Any domestic flight within New Zealand operated by aircraft with those things that go round and round in front of the engine is security-free

[inbalance]

In germany every plane below 5,7 tonnes is security free.

[YorkshireTyke]

............helicopter trips over NYC and Las Vegas as well as ..........

Recently had a flight with a friend from a small airport in "The Valley"to Catalina Island off the Southern Californian coast. Drove into the airport, spoke to on one, pushed open the hangar doors, prepared the a/c, called the tower and took off. Nobody even noticed that we were there, never mind sought to question us.

Told SoCal ATC that we were taking the VFR corridor over Los Angeles International Airport, this runs North and South from Santa Monica VOR at right angles to the 06/24 alignment of the runways, so does not interfere with landing or departing traffic. Didn't have to get permission from anyone, and certainly didn't even talk to LAX tower, just flew the required headings and altitudes printed on the sectional chart for all to see.

I have some superb photographs taken looking directly down on to LAX - imagine what I could have done, had I been so motivated and brain-washed!

Couple of days later I was required to remove my shoes and belt to board the Boeing home.

Total madness.

[PAXboy]

There is a particular style ankle length boots that I wear when travelling by air. In all UK airports, they trigger the magnetic arch.

When I went through SIN a couple of days ago? Nothing. I have heard that SIN is stringent on security. It will be interesting to see what happens when taking domestic flights in OZ.

[Dufo]

In UK it is the magnetic ink on boarding pass that trips off the archway detector.

[edi_local]

Just came back from Barra. Security on the way out from GLA was as standard. On the way back, nothing at all, yet BRR has a door with "security" written above it which everyone must go through to board, but there is nothing on the other side of it but a desk. All transit passengers have to land themselves at GLA and clear security there. I imagine most of the inbound Loganair routes are the same, with the exceptions of perhaps Stornoway, Shetland and Orkney routes which are on bigger aircraft.

[thing]

There is a particular style ankle length boots that I wear when travelling by air.

No good without pics.

[PAXboy]

This type: Hi-Tec Mens Altitude V I WP Boot| Cotswold Outdoor (http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/au/hi-tec-mens-altitude-v-i-wp-boot-B1122669?id_colour=5525&channel_code=1311&s2m_product_id=78647_5525&_$ja=tsid:45886&gclid=CIbCjP_XtssCFQoQvQodEWsLYg&gclsrc=aw.ds)

I'm currently in Australia so the search gave me A$ but these always signal in the UK. On this trip, it's too warm and I've left them with friends before the return journey.

Having now made half a dozen internal flights, I can say that the Australians are not interested in water and fluids but aerosols are very carefully inspected and must be taken out of the cabin bag. Bottles of water have gone unremarked.

[Heathrow Harry]

Yup - I had to dump some aerosols a year back at Cairns........ but water was no bother

[Richard Le page]

Here in the channel Islands all inter island flights used to be security free prior to 9/11.
There was a separate inter island gate situated away from the main security area in both Guernsey and Jersey Don't think Alderney had any security area either even on UK flights. No bags or yourself screened, you just walked up to the gate showed your boarding pass and got on the plane. Completely different story now though.

[Phileas Fogg]

Here in the Philippines one is allowed to take their laptop on board but not the power cable that goes with it ... The logic being that one could strangle somebody with the power cord but one could never hit somebody over the head with the laptop!

I just love travelling on business here :)

[PAXboy]

Since 2001, I have said that a heavy laptop (2kg) and a bottle of duty free spirits (hold the neck and break off the main part to leave you with the weapon) are all that you need. Both are encouraged by the carriers and the glass bottle will be provided to you at your seat.

Simples.

[Basil]

Just came back from Barra. Security on the way out from GLA was as standard. On the way back, nothing at all,
With that intelligence now available to them, the bad guys will now arrive on Barra by sea for the flight to GLA.
Better get that wicker man ready. ;)

[Rwy in Sight]

With that intelligence now available to them, the bad guys will now arrive on Barra by sea for the flight to GLA.
Better get that wicker man ready.

What we don't know is what happens to connecting pax after they reach GLA. I guess there would be screened as let's say someone who arrives from downtown GLA and wants to board a flight from there.

[PAXboy]

The Isle of Man airport take matters very seriously as they know all to well of the route from Ireland (N + S) to the Island and then onward. Their magnetic arch was set super sensitive - although they always claimed it was set to 'UK standard'.

When IOM flights went to LHR, they were at the end of a long pier in T1 (Gate 12, I seem to recall) and there was a special one-way viewing room for the folks to observe pax leaving and arriving.

[edi_local]

What we don't know is what happens to connecting pax after they reach GLA. I guess there would be screened as let's say someone who arrives from downtown GLA and wants to board a flight from there.

Everyone has to go through the arrivals process and then re-clear security in GLA before entering the departures area. There is no option to enter the departures area directly. As I didn't have a bag and wasn't connecting onwards from GLA I can't say for sure if baggage is through checked or not, but whatever the case they will be screened at GLA as it wouldn't meet DfT/CAA rules if they didn't. I imagine the DfT/CAA know the situation and their rules allow for flights such as the highlands and islands services to exist without screening.

[Rwy in Sight]

So the "risk" is just for the short sector from the islands to the mainland.

[edi_local]

You could put it that way, I suppose, but how much "risk" there is in reality is questionable. Scotland is hardly unique in having this kind of set up. I imagine the services inside wales, from Cardiff to Anglesey, or the services from the Scilly Isles to the mainland operate much the same system.

As a side note, I once flew from CFN to DUB, a route operated by Loganair (now EI) and entirely inside the Republic of Ireland. Donegal airport has security screening, which I, and the other 6 passengers on the Saab, went through. When we got to DUB I was connecting on to LHR (my bag was checked through). I had to not only go through security again, but also Irish passport control in order to get to my LHR gate! :}

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

On the way back, nothing at all, yet BRR has a door with "security" written above it which everyone must go through to board, but there is nothing on the other side of it but a desk. All transit passengers have to land themselves at GLA and clear security there. I imagine most of the inbound Loganair routes are the same, with the exceptions of perhaps Stornoway, Shetland and Orkney routes which are on bigger aircraft.
Well that;s changed! Did this in 2008 and although there was no Xray, the bag was thoroughly searched, not pleasent really. So passengers must be bussed to arrivals at GLA as they can't be allowed into the terminal airside as before. ILY-GLA on the SF340 was standard airport security last year.

[ExXB]

Flew Gloucester to Isle of Man on a LET a couple of years ago. We had full security and all luggage (checked and carry-on) scanned.

The thing was, there was only one guy doing the check in, baggage check, security, announcements, boarding process. His Hi-viz jacket also had him in the airport fire brigade. Pity they didn't have a shop/bar ... he might have got a tip.

[edi_local]

Well that;s changed! Did this in 2008 and although there was no Xray, the bag was thoroughly searched, not pleasent really. So passengers must be bussed to arrivals at GLA as they can't be allowed into the terminal airside as before. ILY-GLA on the SF340 was standard airport security last year.
It may be the case that checked in baggage is hand searched, I never checked in baggage and I think only one other passenger did, but I didn't see anything, although that isn't to say they don't hand search. We walked from the aircraft on arrival and entered through the same door as Irish/Channel Island/IOM arrivals in GLA, meaning anyone in transit at GLA would have to clear security in order to proceed to the main departure lounge.

[ricardian]

Loganair's Interisland service (http://www.loganair.co.uk/reservations/)based in Kirkwall has no security checks.

[Fly4Business]

We are talking inner-country Islands Hopping here, with all its special rules and regulations. Not much difference between the Britten Norman Islander transporters serving Helgoland redrockmen and Susi Air doing the Papua bushmen ...

[Heathrow Harry]

and most people know everyone else on the flight and are probably related to them - and that often includes the flight crew

[FerrypilotDK]

Re Miegs Field in Chicago post-----It was a crime committed by the crappy mayor, and he got away with destroying NATIONAL infrastructure. Oh yes, it was found to be illegal, but it was done. Jobs were lost owners and users were horribly inconvenienced. I NEVER go through Chicago if there is a hint of an alternative. I might not make a difference, but I will not drop a dollar that could see a cent reaching this National Socialist wannabe.

[S.o.S.]

FerrypilotDK Please do not use the 'N' word. Whilst the person might be many things, that knee-jerk usage does not help. I am leaving your post as you make a strong opinion, but edit your post and use another word.

[davidjohnson6]

I understand that passenger security checks are to end at three very small airports in Scotland - Barra, Campbeltown and Tiree. Clearly, most passegers from these 3 airports are travelling just to Glasgow and as small communties where everyone knows everyone else, the whole security thing becomes a bit of theatre and people ticking boxes. I don't believe that a 19-seat aircraft on short hops in remote areas from an airport with maybe 2 departing flights per day is a spectacular target for terrorism

Previously I've flown on a single ticket from Campbeltown to Heathrow via Glasgow - the fact that checks have been performed at Campbeltown meant that I was considered 'clean' and could transfer straight to the gate for the Heathrow flight when I arrived at Glasgow. Will the new policy mean that one has to go to landside, or is there an intention that there will be an 'airside' security check ? Furthermore, is this expected to impact connection times when travelling onwards ?

Flights from Anglesey to Cardiff on the other hand have the worst of both worlds - passengers have to go through full airport security to board an aircraft at Anglesey, but on arrival at Cardiff are considered 'dirty' and have to go landside before reclearing security !

Note - For the avoidance of doubt, I believe HIAL are making the right move. I've flown on scheduled flights from 3 very small airports in Germany (not a country known for skimping on rules) - nobody thought it necessary to do full airport security checks

Source - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...lands-38689143 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-38689143)

[PAXboy]

This article on the topic:
Security searches at three Scottish airports to end ? but union warns plan places a nuclear power station at risk | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/security-searches-at-scotland-s-beach-airport-to-end-a7539086.html)

Has a different angle:
But Prospect’s negotiator, David Avery, said the move to end checks before Loganair flights depart “puts staff and passengers at risk”. He said that several strategic locations, as well as the airports themselves, were “far more likely to be potential targets”.

“The flight path into Glasgow is close to nuclear power facilities at Hunterston, the large oil terminal and facilities at Finnart on Loch Long, and Ministry of Defence establishments at Coulport, Faslane and Glen Douglas.”

The union says the decision puts 10 jobs at Tiree, Barra and Campbeltown airports at risk. It claims that the trigger for the move was a five per cent cut to HIAL’s budget.

[KayPam]

The A/C is probably bellow the min size requiring screening. A saab 340 or J41 is the normal aircraft used to the isles which is not so is treated the same as a 747 going to JFK. The security rules are the same throughout europe.

Well that's true.. in theory.
I once boarded a flight from Greece (a rather large airport), with easyjet, and was able to pass through security with a full sized 1.5L bottle FULL OF WATER !