The MS Windows 10 upgrade experience thread.

[Pelikal]

This is a 'rant'.

I have a small 7" Windows 8.1 tablet (Connect 7 which is a Tesco rebrand of the Linx7, I believe). 32Gb drive, of which 8Gb is a recovery partition. So not much space left over.

I thought I would install Windows 10. Ha! Joke.

I have one USB port and a slot for an SD micro card. From what I've read, an SD card can be used for installation and copying files leaving the USB port free for a constant power supply. Formatted my 16Gb SD to NTFS.

Should all be straight forward, I think. What a fcuking mess. MS have screwed up big time with the installation of W10 on small tablets, going by what I've read on various forums (inc. the MS Community forum).

4 times now and installation hangs up on copying files, latest error code C1900101. Each attempt seems to bring up a different code. At least I rolled back to 8.1 ok.

I bloody hate MS for causing all this misery. They can't even get the damn upgrade facility to work correctly. Bollocs to them.

Rant over.

[Loose rivets]

I was thinking of starting such a thread but I know nowt about tablets. The Rivetess in Texas has just loaded 10 on a diddy laptop that used to have W7 Starter on it. It seems to be obeying her, but then, it wouldn't dare do anything else.


About Two weeks of my life has vanished due to 10 tricking me into loading. Get Now, Load Later. A bare faced lie - well, not quite. It downloaded and immediately started 'Preparing'. Pulled the plug on it first time, but then let it have its way second go. "You can load it later, but you only get one date. Tell us now or load the damn thing." Words to that effect. They know, we all know, we do not have a clue when we'll have those hours to set aside. B:mad:tards.

So, it was with a heavy heart I loaded 10. I'd played with it on a spare laptop. Not too bad, thinks I. It'll work, thinks I. Yes it will, and while it does so it will be sucking bits of your soul from your very being.

FireFox rewrite stuff. Kaspersky gets caught by this and the two major players seem to spar for a while and then get an old bloke in Essex to help them spread the word - to Barclays. Rubbish? I got two lots of 25 quid for my efforts. Most of that energy went into making Barclays believe me.

Skype, on which I rely, is being blamed by Kasper for the light blue screen of death I keep getting. Kasper sent me the soft to have a look at my PC's inner workings. They really did put a lot of effort into seeking out anything that's not gelling in this wondrous world of 10.

GooGoo and MS now know more about me than I know about myself. Well, that must be exciting for them, but I've just turned off Cortana's 5 settings that have her knowing my innermost secrets. I'll stop there as it's kind of a family forum.

I'm kind of frustrated that I can't get far with hold down Shift + Restart. It seems to get to the exciting bit I have to have qualifications that I, even as the builder and OS loader, am not privy to. I hate when that happens.

All in all, I imagine W10 will be masterable by geeks. I used to love all this stuff, but now all I want is for the machine to work and not go into secret routines when I access certain sites.

Of all the barmy things I've read this PM is their learning from the monitoring of our keystrokes is for our own good. It will help them in their subservience.

No, it's called spying - at best - and we want you to STOP IT. Oh, apart from one spotty little chap in Southend that rather likes it.

[Pelikal]

I gave it another crack, download failed at the same point. Perhaps I didn't make it clear what my gripe is. I can't get the download/upgrade to work!

A little more detail:

After around 2 hours of starting the download and clicking various things (lack of disk space, directed it to my micro SD card etc) the screen changed to the black one with the white circle showing a percentage.

Underneath that there is a list of 3 processes.

1) Copying files
2) Installing features and drivers
3) Configuring settings

Each of these has their own percentage as well as the overall one in the circle.

Copying files turned blue with the % in the circle being 32. So that was done and it started Installing drivers/features. It hung up at 20% with the % in the circle being 39 complete. I left it for 5 hours!! Nothing.

All I have is some error code that means sod-all to me. If I look up the code I see a whole list of stuff to try. I'm not a geek. Why all this? Just damn well do what you are supposed to do. And Microsoft want thanks? :mad:

[MG23]

Microsoft is self-destructing in front of our eyes. They've tried giving Windows 10 away, and can't even manage that, because, while it may be an improvement over Windows 8, those who still have Windows 7 are happy with it and see no reason to downgrade.

The desktop PC market is shrinking as many people can do everything they need with a tablet or phone, and the rest of us keep our PCs much longer than we used to, because there's no good reason to upgrade. Microsoft could have kept that market forever, but threw everything into a crazed attempt to become relevant on phones.

And failed.

So now they're doubling-down, pushing downgrades to people who don't want them. I'm waiting for the day my girlfriend's mother calls to say she booted up her PC for the first time in weeks and it's all different to the last time she used it and half her software doesn't work.

[Pelikal]

MG23,

Yup, sticking with Win7 on my laptop. Just thought I would try Win10 on the tablet. 8.1 works fine on it.

[Specaircrew]

Hmmm, well I suppose you could call a Surface Pro 3 a small tablet.........no problems upgrading mine from Windows 8.1, took about 40 mins though. Did you make sure that all the most recent Windows Updates were installed before starting the process? I've updated 6 PC's so far, some of which were over 5 years old, without any problems yet......perhaps I've just been lucky.

[John Marsh]

MG23:
Microsoft is self-destructing in front of our eyes. They've tried giving Windows 10 away, and can't even manage that, because, while it may be an improvement over Windows 8, those who still have Windows 7 are happy with it and see no reason to downgrade.
Quite. I find 7 to be less convenient than XP, but definitely preferable to 10. 'Downgrade' is spot on.

I am a little stunned at the extent of the data farming embedded in Windows 10. I went through the customizing options during initial setup, then went through all the nooks & crannies in the OS when running. Still finding more: I took care of 'Edge' today.

I don't like the idea of any searches being monitored and reported to M$. This includes looking for my own documents, on my own PC. Nor do I like the way the tiles automatically go online.

A valuable tool is TCPView, a free utility that shows what processes are connected to where, in the PC and online.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/tcpview.aspx

Use it even when you think you've killed all the spying apps!

[Loose rivets]

I called the local guru last night. I've chatted to him in the past about photography - he had some of the latest Nikon kit and is one of those people that really goes deeply into the technicalities. Anyway, W10 is a good earner for him - taking the f'in thing off and formatting their drives. It seems to be steady work as he's very hard to get time with. Nice.

Since someone high up in MS said, "Anyone that gets Ten now will never have to pay for the use of it". Something like that and pretty close. I can only gather they mean to eventually charge the world for the use of new OS's.

In the mean time they are using the world as a testing ground for a series of silly toys that most serious users don't want, and an OS that spies on you by the minute.

For the first time since I used to sell DOS and early Windows with my workstations (AutoCAD) I've not minded paying for software. The Gates Foundation is good and I hope it can be funded in the long term - but not by annoying the hell out of folk that have been computing for . . . Well, over three decades in my case.

what's the answer? XP was superb, and many big companies are still using it. Vista was a glimpse of the future but weighed the machine down to absurd levels. W7 looked like the future, but then 8 appeared, and it's said only three people in the world liked it, and they are quite mad. 8.1, finished by a lone individual so people could drive it, looked like it might be fun - if it was on someone else's machine!
W9. Now there's an OS. Trouble is, no humans are allowed to use it. Ten. Stripped of toys and spying equipment. Mmm, could be.






.

[Bushfiva]

pelikal, assuming your Windows 8.1 is completely up-to-date, try this: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/929135

[Pelikal]

Bushfiva, thanks for link. Yet to have a good look through it, and to be honest I'm not feeling particularly brave at the moment.Cheers though, :ok:

[Loose rivets]

Me too with John's link. Bit above my head I'd think.


However, part of me feels it's a shame to give in and not master 10. We'll see . . . erm, that's the point. Off to hospital today to show the surgeon my eye. Last bubble was gone this AM. I can look down without seeing a shiny black ball-bearing in the way. Still, it was better than when it filled my vision. That was scary. :ouch:

On my i7 Vaio with W7. Check for updates. Offered nothing but W10 whatever I do. Maybe it's because it's up to date.

[Loose rivets]

I've just seen on the MS site, that downloading a clean OS to say, DVD or USB stick could render existing Temp files useless.

I'd thought of taking advantage of changing to 64bit since it was a free 'upgrade'. It seems I'd have to do it on my W7 laptop to be safe.

I've just thought of another trap. It seems one does not need the key to put the new 10 in. So somewhere, it's embedded in the system. BUT, the ISO has to be created on another machine, so what key will the ISO be allocated?

Important

To upgrade for free, select the Upgrade now option at the top of this page.
We recommend using the media creation tool on a PC running Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. If you run this tool on a PC running Windows 10, it can overwrite temporary files that are needed if you ever want to go back to your previous operating system.



https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

[Pelikal]

Thanks Mr. Loose, my remaining brain cells are now totally scrambled.:hmm:

[themidge]

The ISO won't have a key assigned. The machine running Windows 10 will be authorised once you've installed from the ISO, supplied a valid Windows 7/8 key (that hasn't already been used to upgrade to Windows 10) and then activated online. You won't need to supply the Windows 7 key again if you wanted to do a fresh install further down the line.

I recently upgraded a laptop from Windows 7 to Windows 10. A week later the motherboard died. I swapped out the motherboard and then Windows 10 booted fine but then reported that it wasn't activated. After about half an hour on live chat to Microsoft, they had re-activated Windows 10 so it was associated with the new motherboard.

[tomahawk_pa38]

I did the free upgrade and now regretting it. Can't synch my IPOD anymore, my backup external hard - drive won't function and I have a number of older games I can't run because they've done something with W10 with Digital Rights Management (DRM) which means you can't read some older disks anymore.

[dazdaz1]

tomahawk...."I did the free upgrade and now regretting it. Can't synch my IPOD anymore, my backup external hard - drive won't function and I have a number of older games I can't run because they've done something with W10 with Digital Rights Management (DRM) which means you can't read some older disks anymore"

The point is W10 is a new OS (as it would, of a new purchase of a laptop with W10 installed) you have to sort out the issues (as above) yourself. Me? I'm sticking to W7

Having said that, kudos to you for taking the plunge and posting your problems on this forum.

I'm sure he'll post soon as to your post. Some say...... He designed the pyramid shape tea bag, I give you.........

[Loose rivets]

themidge. Hang on a minute. In fact, hang on a lot of minutes cos I'm sure there's something wrong with the logic, but I'm darned if I can bring it into focus.

In the above site we have a clear statement that there's no need to put in a key.

As stressed, it says if the ISO data is loaded onto a W10 machine there's a danger of immediate activity which could screw that machine up. (via Temp Files) But, it's safe to carry out the download onto a W7 machine and take that presumably prepared ISO to a W10 machine which can have a formatted drive C.

Are you saying the key is totally provided by MS records of hardware, or is the key left in some exotic hiding place? Yep, my brain cell is also failing. :\

[themidge]

Apologies, I'm getting a little confused about which machine is running which version of Windows.

As you stated, using the Windows 10 media creation tool on a Windows 10 machine that was upgraded from Windows 7/8.1 could damage temporary files that would prevent a roll-back to either Windows 7/8.1. If you don't intend to revert to either of those, no need to worry.

Licensing works differently depending on how you install Windows 10:

If you're installing from the ISO on a machine that has a formatted HDD, you will need a valid licence key to install. This can be a Windows 7/8/8.1 licence that hasn't yet been used to upgrade to Windows 10 or it can be a new Windows 10 licence purchased from Microsoft.

If you're installing Windows 10 while running Windows 7, for example, using the 'Upgrade now' link on the Windows 10 site, the tool will detect your current Windows 7 licence key and Windows 10 will be activated.

The end result is the same, once the machine has an activated copy of Windows 10, any subsequent re-installations of Windows 10 on that machine will not require the key. Microsoft will detect by a hardware profile that it's the same machine.

Hope that clears it up a little!

[Loose rivets]

If you're installing from the ISO on a machine that has a formatted HDD, you will need a valid licence key to install.


This is the issue. In my case, I wanted to 'upgrade' to a 64 bit OS and it seems this can be done for free - once you've gone from 7 to 10 and it's all running. Odd that, since it's the complete wiping of the 32 bit that's so critical.

To me, this implied (past tense) that there must be a key hiding on that machine as the statement that a key would NOT be required was unequivocal. However, we have to go to a spare W7 machine to download the ISO.

The site is above, but I'm scanning letters from my dad in the war and can't be diverted too far off that project. One gets drawn into a world where he was sent on a course to learn about 'wireless'. It takes time to bring one's mind back to Large Scale Integration.

[andytug]

there's a handy little utility called "GWX Control Panel" that puts a stop to it all by disabling the updates and processes for it.

Ultimate Outsider - Software Downloads (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/)

Been using it for 6 months now and no nagging prompts (Win7 SP1).

[bugged on the right]

Thanks andytug. I have been trying for months to get rid of all signs of this. It's like a recurring virus. Hopefully your suggestion will knock it out once and for all.

[GeneticsX]

I am prefer to upgrade (from Win7/Win 8.1 etc etc - if you are eligible to upgrade), let the windows do the automatic update for me. Once I am in Windows 10 and fully activated, I just use 'fresh installation' from windows 10 to start over :D

Always backup your important documents though!

Cheers.

[G0ULI]

I have been using Windows 10 for some time but a few days ago while the computer was sitting on but unused, there was a beep and the screen blanked. Moved the mouse and the cursor appeared, but the screen remained otherwise black. No amount of keyboard tapping or moise clicking would bring the screen to life, other than the mouse cursor.

Power down, power up, sleep mode, wake up, nothing worked. So I ended up pulling the power lead and the battery pack while the computer was on.

Held down the shift key while pressing the power button and the computer appeared to boot normally. A quick check on the internet suggested that it was a graphics fault, so I disabled the graphics accelerator card. The computer screen stayed on for hours without any problems.

Further reading suggested that although Windows 10 and the graphics card manufacturers supplied driver programs for various graphics cards, these programs were of a generic type that worked okay for most cards, most of the time. Individual computer manufacturers are responsible for supplying specific driver programs to work with the computers they manufacture.

So I went into settings and deleted the driver and other programs associated with my graphics accelerator card. The next step was to log onto my computer manufacturers site (Hewlett Packard) using the support program supplied with the computer and request that the computer download the latest driver programs.

Once that was done, I reactivated the graphics accelerator card and everything seems to be back to normal.

The only fly in the ointment is that a pop up message appears from the graphics card manufacturer suggesting that a newer improved driver program is available that will enhance my graphics experience. That is where all the problems started. Do not download drivers direct from graphics card manufacturers, only use the ones supplied by your computer manufacturer (assembler). They have worked out all the bugs and customised the driver to work with their machine and all the other bits cobbled together to make the computer work. I have managed to shut down the graphics card manufacturers upgrade message by instructing the computer never to check.

So if you find yourself with a blank screen and just a mouse cursor visible, or perhaps just a blank screen and everything else seems to be running, it may be a problem with the computer getting conflicting instructions from two different graphics devices. A bog standard display driver is usually included on all computer motherboards, but this isn't great for playing games or watching high definition movies. So a second graphics accelerator card is fitted that does all the donkey work when high quality graphics are required. The two different graphics systems need to play nicely with one another otherwise you end up with a blank screen. The computer manufacturer makes sure this happens. Microsoft and the graphics card manufacturers have no idea what combination of other components you may have in your system. So go to your computer manufacturer for updates as the first port of call when, or if, you have any sort of problems. This applies to just about any devices you have fitted to your computer.

Over all Windows 10 has proved to be quite a lot better than Windows 8 if you can overlook all the stuff it wants to send back to Microsoft. If you are running Windows 7, I suggest you stick with that.

[P.Pilcher]

I was getting quite proud of the fact that I had allowed my laptop to convert to Win10 and after a week or so it had managed to sort itself out and I began to get used to it. That was a few months ago.
Last night, I ran the laptop up twice. On the first occasion at about 19.00 I did what I wanted to, noted that there were no messages about pending updates and shut down. At 23.30 I needed to do another quick job before bed. I switched on and the usual "whirly" thing appeared. A minute or so later this disappeared leaving a blank screen. I was about to shut down and try again when I noted that I could still hear my hard drive working away so I waited ... and waited ... and waited. After about half an hour the win10 start up screen appeared and announced that updates were being installed. After another long wait the machine completely re-booted and the remainder of the updates were put in. Then, at last my desktop reappeared and Win10 was ready for action. By this time I had completely forgotten what I had wanted to do so shut it down and retired! Grr!

At least I have now managed to make my desktop machine a dual booting one Win 10 - and XP.

P.P.

[John Marsh]

P.P.:
At least I have now managed to make my desktop machine a dual booting one Win 10 - and XP.
Congratulations! That's my ultimate aim with my Lenovo Ideapad. But don't mention XP too loudly around here...:ooh:

A quick by the way to Win 10 users desiring privacy: SearchUI.exe is still active and phoning home even if Cortana is off. Killing it in Task Manager produces a prompt re-start. I haven't given up yet.;)

[Saab Dastard]

But don't mention XP too loudly around here

Windows XP is now an insecure OS (and has been for the last 18 months), placing you and others at risk by persisting with it. It has no place on a computer connected to the internet.

SD

[Heathrow Harry]

But it works - and there are legacy programs that only work with it

It's fine to pontificate about internet security but sometimes the day job still has to be done.........................

[andytug]

Nothing wrong with continuing to use XP, if it's fully patched, with appropriate anti-virus and anti malware tools (e.g Malwarebytes) and all add-ons such as Flash are up to date. Long as you're not in the habit of clicking on unchecked links, replying to Nigerian generals or browsing dodgy sites (e.g. warez) that is....but no operating system is proof against the wetware using it!

[Saab Dastard]

Nothing wrong with continuing to use XP, if it's fully patched

Absolute nonsense.

It cannot be fully patched because no XP security patches have been released for over 18 months.

The problem about using XP is not necessarily for the person using it directly, it's for the rest of the world because that XP machine may have been infected without the end user being aware of it, and is then being used to the detriment of the web as a whole - for example in spamming and DDoS attacks.

It's fine to pontificate about internet security

This isn't pontification. We were recently hit (collateral damage, not the target) by a large DDoS attack on our network provider. Where do you think the botnet members come from? XP was more vulnerable to attack than Vista, 7 or 8 even when it was being supported, so it's reasonable to believe that it's even more vulnerable now, so it really, really should not be connected to the internet any more.

SD

[andytug]

More vulnerable than Vista? Citation please?
I have more than one XP PC and have no problems connecting them to the net - there are vulnerabilities in every OS (including Win10), a lot of them cut across every OS (*cough* Adobe). The XP botnet problem is more likely down to thousands if not millions of illegal copies without patches in places like China and Russia.

[Rwy in Sight]

I had some serious dealings with a large telecom, in their shop next to their HQ. Some of those computers were still using XP as late as this week.

[Saab Dastard]

More vulnerable than Vista? Citation please?

Kaspersky, who probably should know, as it's their business to do so:

https://blog.kaspersky.com/xp-eos-8apr-3/4417/

Running XP on internet-connected PCs is like driving with no insurance, saying that "it'll never happen to me, 'cos I'm a safe driver". Until you aren't, or are hit by something you didn't see coming.

Some of those computers were still using XP as late as this week. Probably a sufficiently large organisation to have shelled out hundreds of thousands of pounds to MS to continue supplying security patches for XP!

SD

[le Pingouin]

Nothing wrong with continuing to use XP, if it's fully patched!

Unless you're part of a large organisation that's paid for the privilege of continuing support you will not be fully patched. The fact is there have been multiple patches released. So yes, more vulnerable than Vista which has continued to receive patches.

[Heathrow Harry]

Saab - you still don't answer the question about what we do if we have some legacy programs that we HAVE to use under XP because they have never been updated or rewritten and the customer base is so small that no-one will rewrite under W10

If its a choice between running a Microsoft version of XP behind a modern firewall avoiding the Nigerians etc and not being able to carry out the job I'm afraid it's XP everytime for me.

I never asked them to replace it TBH...................

[le Pingouin]

I'd suggest you stop using XP for anything but the specific task you need it for and unplug the network cable except when you absolutely must take it on-line. Very definitely no browsing. Also very definitely no running as admin user.

Sooner or later there will be no anti-virus software available for XP. What are you going to do when the XP computer dies? Maybe you need to investigate virtual machines, noting an infected system running in a virtual machine can infect/attack the host system.

[Private jet]

Well, I took the "plunge" a couple of days ago (after no end of prompting by M$:*) and did the 10 installation. What a waste of time and effort. Sure, it looks very slick but I soon found out I couldn't scroll up/down webpages or documents using the touchpad on my laptop, I could open photos but i couldn't click to the next in the album like before. Really really basic functions that don't work anymore. I looked for solutions online including their own help centre and the answers I found were far too vague to be of any use or too complex for anyone but a clued up IT type to understand. The one I did try just didn't work. I lasted about 3 hours with it then back to 8.1, its not great but it works fine on this machine and I'm used to it now. The extremely limited and dubious "benefits" of 10 are just not worth the aggrovation.
Win10 just proves the old adage that what comes for free is cr@p and often involves some sort of complication, trick or hidden obligation.
No wonder Gates is spending his fortune trying to eradicate malaria, because he won't be remembered fondly for anything else.
Does anyone know if you revert to 8.1 then you don't have any nasty "cling-on" apps or bits of M$ spyware added on to it?
All the nerds that develop this junk should stick to watching Star Trek in future.

[le Pingouin]

FWIW touchpad scrolling worked out of the box on a Lenovo X201 I upgraded from Win7 & I can move back or forwards when viewing photos in the Photos app by clicking on the arrows or using the arrow keys. Out of curiosity what hardware are you using?

I think you'll find Win8.1 has just as much MS "spyware" as Win10.

[Heathrow Harry]

Pingoiun

It may well come to that - I know some outfits who have a range of VERY old machines kept in use because of this problem - I'm talking about pre Windows 3, some AMSTRADS and even older - also the relevant ancient tape & disk drives.

Sometimes it's software, other times it's a database or a tape

Generally they're in a locked room just in case they go walk-about but every few months someone seems to need them. You could get the code rewritten but why bother - it works fine

They're certainly not connected to the internet tho'...............

[Private jet]

FWIW touchpad scrolling worked out of the box on a Lenovo X201 I upgraded from Win7 & I can move back or forwards when viewing photos in the Photos app by clicking on the arrows or using the arrow keys. Out of curiosity what hardware are you using?


It's a HP Pavilion laptop.

[Bushfiva]

HP should have the drivers. pavilion 10, for example: HP Products - Common Solutions for Windows 10 | HP® Customer Support (http://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-Pavilion-10-Notebook-PC-Series/5437524/model/6532266/document/c04773236/)

[le Pingouin]

I upgraded a HP Elitebook for a friend recently and the scrolling worked out of the box. Can't comment on the photo app.

It appears to be a common problem with Pavillions - as Bushfiva says HP is who you need to look to for a solution rather than MS.

[Newforest2]

Plunged and installed last night. Four hours straight, no problems (so far!). You know you will have to, one day, soon!!

[John Marsh]

Win. 10 has a compatibility mode:

How to Set Compatibility Mode for Apps in Windows 10 (http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/set-compatibility-mode-windows-10)

[Loose rivets]

Today's read in of a well-known site says that Fast Startup is a good thing to turn off. I read right through and turned mine off. (normally ON, on W10)

If you dual boot, it seems that it vital to have it OFF.

Long list of reasons to have it off, against a speed advantage I can barely detect with my SSD carrying the OS.


Prior to this, I'd just spent the last half-hour reading posts from folk who are going to Linux or reverting to W7. Me? Well I've done about an hour's serious work since letting Ten barge into my PC a month or so ago. Only an old retired guy could let this state of affairs continue for weeks.

[parabellum]

Finally upgraded from W7 to W10, took 4 hours and seems OK so far, Dell, Inspiron One, 64bit 8MB RAM etc. Very pleased that when it opened up after installation it came up with my W7 desk top and short cuts, most of which seem to work, if a little slow, also have the choice of IE11 or Edge, (how do a set a start page of my choice in Edge please?).


Problem is it thinks most of my programmes are 32 bit, or that is what it says when I look in Task Manager. The computer is 64bit and the installation process never asked me to select between 32 and 64, I assumed it would read that info for itself, especially being an upgrade and not a clean install. In System, via control panel, it says 64bit in all the places I would expect.


Does anyone have more info on this please and can I change anything anywhere so that it forgets all about 32bit? Thanks.

[le Pingouin]

Why is it a problem? The bitness of the program is determined when it's compiled so can't be changed other than by installing a 64-bit version of the program. Given that you upgraded to 64-bit Win10 you must have been running the same 32-bit programs on 64-bit Win7. It's all quite normal.

[parabellum]

Thanks le Pingouin, wasn't sure. I bought 64 bit CCleaner and even that is showing as 32 bit :confused:.


I changed my default browser to IE11 but I notice when I open an attachment in Outlook it opens in Edge, which I find strange.

[le Pingouin]

I installed CCleaner (free version) to test & it says 64-bit - I just downloaded what was offered and didn't specifically pick 64-bit. Sorry, no idea.

Presumably it's configured to use Edge for things that aren't Internet based.

[Rwy in Sight]

W10 is not bad but definitely nothing to write home about.

I upgraded last Friday from 8.1 on a Lenovo laptop. It is noticeably lower after the logon to before I can start opening files or run a program and the firefox takes again more time to open completely the home page. The other negative point, making me to start thinking to move back to W8.1 is the series of small icons (facilitating various operations like turning on the bluetooth or finding any device connected to the computer) when the pointer was moved out the left side of the screen. I am not sure if it is clear what I liked on W8.1.

Any ideas on how to move back to the previous OS?

[le Pingouin]

To revert: PC Settings > Update & security > Recovery > Go back to Windows 8.1 (whatever your previous version was)

Be warned it can fail. You have a month (however many days that means.....) to use that facility. You can still revert later but it entails performing a clean install with your previous version.

[Rwy in Sight]

Thanks le Pingouin. It worked without issues and I got the side-appearing bar back.

[le Pingouin]

With the added bonus of being able to upgrade to Win10 again for free later if you decide that's what you want.

[Lyneham Lad]

Upgrading from Windows 7 the 'percent complete' number very slowly advanced until reaching 99% - and there it has stayed (for >5 hours now).

What to do? Leave it running overnight or kill it and start again?

[Loose rivets]

I found myself in that position and tried again, but, the delay might just be thousands of people all getting 10 before it runs out. Although the barometer is not moving, is the HD doing much? And also, Task Manager might give a clue as to what's going on.

I'm tempted to get another one, but didn't buy another SSD so am thinking of installing on a spare laptop drive and changing later. Not sure what the swapping-drives thing will be after the 29th.

I wish I had purchased another drive as I see the Pro version costs a lot.

[Lyneham Lad]

Ref post #53, I tried a third time from scratch, this time disabling Avast anti-virus software. The update reached 99% much more quickly (2.30pm) but then seemingly stalled. Turned the monitor off and got on with other things. Checked at bedtime, still 99% - ah, what the heck, left it running overnight. Turned the monitor on this morning and bingo - 'Welcome to Windows 10' or words to that effect.

Will now put the whole shooting match up for sale as I recently switched to an iMac. Farewell Windows!

[IBMJunkman]

Found elsewhere:

http://www.myimagecollection.com/webpics/win10.jpg

[Loose rivets]

I found myself phoning PCWorld today. 'No, there's no SSD drives available in any store.'

Pity, but never mind. Don't really need another W10, just avarice, don't need it, but the pro is costly and I've got a W7 pro. I festered over this for some moments. (I'll buzz off to the silly section for the next bit.)

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/582243-never-believe-voice-phone-no-matter-how-helpful-they-sound.html#post9456130

It was about 2:30PM before I decided to disbelieve the lady on the PCWorld phone. I drove to an out-of-town supermarket thingy and asked a nice young man in PCW if he'd got an SSD drive. He had.

And that's why I'm writing a load of guff on JB. It makes the time go by while I watch little circles, circle, and bar graphs, graph, or whatever bar graphs do. but behold! I'm now told I'm the owner of a Authenticated W10 Pro.

Mmmm . . . there has to be a catch. Maybe W7 will become so sought-after that a legal copy will be worth ten times the price of the equivalent W10.

[sled dog]

Tried W10, immediate dislike, uninstalled and reinstalled W8 which I am very happy with.

[Lyneham Lad]

Maybe W7 will become so sought-after that a legal copy will be worth ten times the price of the equivalent W10.

Well, I'm open to offers... :cool:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/Lyneham_Lad/Miscellaneous/be37c6f4-63b5-4688-81fd-e244e1f1a2bf_zpse1scuqla.jpg

[Geordie_Expat]

Am I the only person who has never received an installation disc with a new PC. Every time, Windows whatever version already installed, never had a disc.

[Carry0nLuggage]

Well that was a complete waste of the last two days. :mad:

Multiple attempts to perform the upgrade and each time it failed and each time for a different error code. The compatibility check passed, the download went OK as did the check on the download. The update ran, the machine rebooted and - we're back to W7. Made sure all exisitng W7 updates were present; disconnected any unneeded USB HDDs and all the other little tricks mentioned on the internet. Still no joy.

At some stage in the proceedings the update managed to trash the user profiles for Ms Luggage and me. All I've got to do is spend the rest of the day working out how to do that. Thank you so much MS :rolleyes:

So back to W7 for good now. Compared to the painless upgrades on my Mac and even my Linux laptop the W10 experience was shockingly bad.

I joked at work that I'd upgrade to version 10 but it might not be Windows. It's no longer a joke.

[Warmtoast]

Installed my Laptop and Desktop with Windows 10 from Win 7 a couple of days ago. A few very minor niggles, but otherwise both are running fine and I'm quite pleased with Win 10, certainly better than I expected, the bonus being the upgrade was free.

One query: Do I have to keep my original retail (not OEM) Win 7 Program discs, or can they be sold?

[Loose rivets]

No, hang on to those. If you even have to do a total reinstall - downloading a fresh ISO, you'll need the key. If anyone else is using it, you may find it's locked out forever.

However, the new 10's seem to arrive with a fresh key if BELARC is to be believed, so you might want to take the gamble to garner a few quid from the procedures.

On one install I did, nothing would allow the ISO download - until I tried the key that was on the side of my HP pc in the US. I just happened to have made a note of it when it was sold for a few dollars with no OS.

[Warmtoast]

Loose rivets
hang on to those

Thanks for the tip, I will.

WT

[crablab]

Although, if you happen to have a newer laptop (W8 upwards) you'll find there is no licence key and no CofA sticker on the bottom because the key is embedded in the BIOS - makes it a right pain sometimes!

[Loose rivets]

I had a lot to say about that on a thread some 2 - 3 years ago. Neither Asus nor MS seemed willing to reveal just what was going on, and during a conversation with Belarc, they said they can't see them at the moment, 'But we will.' And they can.

In the end, MS offered me a full 8.1 Pro on discs for $45 which I readily accepted.

I've just picked up a Lenovo PC unopened box with 8.1 on a 2 TB drive. It has one of those half hologram stickers.

I've 'upgraded' it to 10, and will look to see what Key is allotted to that install as it's usually different, but I forgot to note the original Key. Despite the computer operating okay on 10, it was still a bad mistake as recently only the original Key on the (disposed of long ago) computer would allow the ISO download for a fresh install. I happened to have the Key but have a feeling I'd have been out of luck without it as MS really do seem to be toughening up on bogus use of their OS's, especially where they're downloaded by request from an automated system.

That computer had, had three Activated OS's in its lifetime, and their system refused all but the original W7.

[BEagle]

So what do people think of the (HUGE) 'anniversary' update which has just found its way onto Win10 systems?

[Democritus]

On 2 out of 3 PC's that I updated the wifi printer had to be reinstalled after the update. After the update on my brother's PC he couldn't get any wifi until he got rid of ZoneAlarm. Classic Shell updated itself to 4.3.0 after booting up on two of my PC's and the other said the program wasn't compatible and it had therefore been uninstalled. I reinstalled Classic Shell (4.3.0) without any difficulty. Other than those minor hiccups all running smoothly now.....except of course like many others my webcam won't work but MS promise a fix this month.

With all these updates I'm going to blow my ISP's 50Gb download limit for the second month running......:(

[Newforest2]

Unprintable! My computer ended up being unusable, unable to boot to safe mode and ended up with the technos to delete AU.

The problem was my drivers were 'not up to date' and I paid the penalty, a lot of euros.

[G-CPTN]

My daughter has acquired a new laptop.
Setting it up (fresh out of the box) it asked for her email address and password. (!)
When she switches on the laptop it asks for her password before it will proceed.
Is it essential that W10 computers are 'locked' to an email account?

Is there any way that this 'security lock' can be disabled so that her young son can use the laptop without having access to her email account?

[Democritus]

She can change things by setting up a Local Account. Hope this link helps.....

How to sign into Windows 10 with a local account - How-To - PC Advisor (http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-sign-into-windows-10-with-local-account-3630929/)

[G-CPTN]

Thanks - it has other implications, such as what to do if you forget your password - no way of getting online to receive an email . . .

[papajuliet]

I refused to download Win 10 onto a Win 7 PC. Whilst the free download was being " pushed" I noticed, when I came to turn off the PC, that Task Force Manager was always running in the background. Since the free download offer ended that has stopped. Everything is now back to normal.
Just what was Microsoft playing at ?

[Nervous SLF]

Just bought a new desktop and it has Win 10 pre-installed. I am getting used to
it and have managed to get rid of stuff that appeared like candy crush ( whatever
that was ? ).
However when I power it up within seconds it opens and displays my e-mails without
any input from me. How do I stop this please as it is extremely annoying. I want
to open Firefox first.

[Loose rivets]

You'll find Task Manager now has a startup tab. Might be worth looking there first to see what programs just might be responsible.

[Nervous SLF]

You'll find Task Manager now has a startup tab. Might be worth looking there first to see what programs just might be responsible.

Well I had a look but as I didn't totally understand what it all meant I chickened
out and left it alone :O

I also couldn't see how to import e-mail contacts.

I did however have a brainwave and upon clicking on incoming e-mails I found
that I could add them to my contacts list. I have now sent out a few more e-mails
asking for a reply so that I can click and add them. Will soon find out those who
do not wish to associate with me :):)

What a Plonk I am, I have managed to import contacts and it only took seconds.
I was playing around and tried using " vCard Single File " and BINGO!!!! All sorted
with contacts I am now going to have another go at stopping the e-mails opening on start.

Sorted this as well, I think I know how but am not sure how to put it into words.:O

[Loose rivets]

Oh, go on, TRY!!! Bated breath here.

[FullOppositeRudder]

Yesterday I had to endure another tirade from a friend (not altogether elderly - about the same age as me :E) whose laptop had "upgraded" to Windows 10 without her knowledge or approval. She is not technically savvy - more accurately described as an 'appliance operator'. But she had uses for her computer, and knew what she needed to do to to get the results she wanted.

Or rather - used to know.

Now it's all changed, and the poor soul is completely at a loss to know where to go, and what to do get the result she wanted. "Everything has changed" she said. She speculated aloud whether life would easier if she got an ipad thingy....

I didn't know what to say - or do either. I use Classic Shell, and Mozilla programs for internet work. She was totally locked into the Micro$oft regime.

Perhaps it will all be clearer when she and her husband get back home after three month trip around the continent and her grandchildren can take up the challenge of re-education. I hope so. Perhaps they are savvy in ipad - that may still be the best way out.

Should people really be subject to this kind of un-solicited 'abuse' from a mainstream company? I predict that there will be a special corner in hell for executives of companies who knowingly foist this kind of confusion on sections of their unsuspecting customer base.

Rant mode <OFF>

FOR

[esa-aardvark]

My win 10 update will not complete as my system partition (name?)
is too small.Maybe win10 should have thought of that when it set it up.
Instructions for enlarging it are full of dire warnings. Computer is much slower since upgrading from 8.1

[le Pingouin]

Yes, adjusting partitions can have catastrophic consequences if it goes wrong but provided you don't kick the power cord out or some such the chances of it working are high. i.e. take the sensible precaution of making a backup before proceeding and there's every chance you'll succeed.

[Midland 331]

(speechless)

But sufferers are not alone, and even the UK's leading consumer organisation has given it's verdict

Windows 10 software condemned by Which? - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37431343)

Having worked on large and complex telephone systems, and alongside some of the best brains in the UK on Nortel systems, I would never, ever, commit to a new operating system until it's thoroughly shaken-down, field-tested, and patched.

W7 is just reaching delightful, stable maturity. Just about the time for MS to declare it "end of life"

XP was faster and smoother after SP3. I still have a machine running it,and if it wasn't for the age of the machine, it's struggle to keep up, and Google no longer supporting Chrome on it, there I would stay.

Meanwhile, my wife lost her work wifi on her W10 machine yesterday for no apparent reason at all. It goes on.

[BEagle]

Surely the successful case brought by Teri Goldstein against Microsoft, after its invasive Windows 10 'upgrade' ruined her business computer, sets a precedent?

See: 'I urge everyone to fight back' ? woman wins $10k from Microsoft over Windows 10 misery ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/27/woman_microsoft_windows_10_upgrades/)

My back up Win8.1 computer was 'upgraded' without my agreement; fortunately it still works OK.

[Alsacienne]

I am getting very fed up with updates that last for ages when I try to turn my laptop off .... only to be rewarded with long delays restarting because Microsoft have been upgrading without my permission and although they claim that nothing has changed .... plenty has including losing my audio which won't come back even when I reset to factory settings. GGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

(And there ain't a blind bit I can do about it it seems ..................)

[Herod]

Anniversary Upgrade? Yes, it downloaded (automatiaclly, thanks, Microsoft), but proceeded to foul the whole system up. I managed to roll back, after a fashion, but it screwed up the whole net. Every website was httpS, with a warning that the security certificate was invalid, and I couldn't access it. Money to a professional, who managed to sort that out, but I still don't like Win 10. Win 8.1 I liked, and it wasn't until I spent a couple of computerless days with an old laptop that I remembered how good XP was.

[Midland 331]

Has anyone had their BIOS utterly wrecked via W10 and a subsequent update?

My daughter's Asus X555L refuses to boot, despite us suspecting that it's a battery/power management issue, and doing the various common tricks to reset.

This is the equivalent of someone changing the lock on my front door without my permission, locking it, chopping all the keys in half, and posting them back through the letterbox.

Is there any money for help via The Gates Foundation?

[Newforest2]

Problem solved. Buy a new computer! My first A.U. killed my computer but resuccitated by my techno. Second compulsory update by MS successfully killed the computer finally. Techno could not resuccitate, so first post from my new computer. MS has definitely dropped a googly in my opinion and reparations should be offered.

[Tocsin]

Another annoying issue that's just started for me is W10 resetting several file associations (to Microsoft apps) from my preferred ones (e.g. from VLC to 'Films & TV') because 'a problem occurred'.

[goudie]

My keyboard has stopped working on my laptop.w10 Have checked drivers etc all apparently working ok. Using on screen kb. Any ideas would be appreciated

[Mac the Knife]

One of my machines automatically upgraded itself from Win 7 to Win 10.

Seemed alright at first, but then I found some of my carefully organised files in a tangle and a lot of small to medium niggles that took a while to put right.

Downloaded a Win 10 image and did a straight install rather than an upgrade - blessing the fact that I keep my data on a separate drive from my operating system (in all OS'es). Much smoother.

But Windows still sort of expects you to to have everything under one roof as it were and it took a lot of farting around with links and junction points to get it all kosher.

And as for getting rid of that pesky Windows.old folder - phew! - had to do some mega fiddling to get rid of that - lots of permission problems....

But all in all I quite like Win 10 - especially if you install Classic Shell - [http://www.classicshell.net/] which is completely free and makes Win 10 look and behave in a civilized fashion (none of those damn panes unless you want 'em.

Mac

[But I'll certainly hold off on the Anniversary upgrade - which is even now still really a beta release though they won't tell you that]

PS: If you want to stop Win 7 auto-upgrading itself you can tweak a few things in the Registry or spare yourself the trouble by installing the completely free GWX Control Panel [to be found at [Ultimate Outsider - Software Downloads (http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/)] which does the job for you very nicely. But I guess the free but forced upgrade is over now - you'll have to pay for it. Best plan is still to start with a clean Win 10 install though and not upgrade Win 7.

An even better plan is Linux Mint or one of the BSD flavours....or go over to Apple there my upgrade from Lion to El Capitan (skipping Mavericks) was smooth as a tomcat pissing on glass....

Ahem!

[horatio_b]

I realise that this is too late for many, but for those who are managing to hang on to their
WIN 7 or 8 systems I can recommend a free application called Never10.

I installed it a few months back and have never heard any more about upgrading to Win10. Prior to this I had been getting nag messages almost daily and large WIN10 files were being downloaded onto my PC without my knowledge or permission.

[rusty sparrow]

My windows 10 installation on an Acer Aspire just crashed after a couple of months and the entire operating system is gone. I'm in an endless loop of 'automatic repair - can't repair' that can't be broken out of.

Windows is not fit for use.

[Pontius Navigator]

OTOH my Acer Aspire was screwed completely when I was trying to fix my anti-virus, upgraded to Win 10 fixed lots. Agree about cLassic view, used it for years. With the anniversary update it lost my printer, soon got it back.

[reynoldsno1]

I went back from W10 to W7 - in the Security settings is a function that will do this automatically, but within 30 days istr. A lot of metadata was lost from my music files ...
The main problem I had was no W10 drivers for many of my peripherals - USB turntable, Thai language keyboard, etc ...

[MG23]

Should people really be subject to this kind of un-solicited 'abuse' from a mainstream company?

Microsoft will only stop abusing their users when their users stop buying Windows machines.

I doubt that day is far off, now.

[Guest 112233]

I suppose by now everyone affected by this change in update method by Microsoft, that is: the Monolithic Update replacing the "Pick Your Own" methodology plus separate itemized updates for Office 2007; has met this "Enhanced Experience"

On my Win 8.1 PC, a Dell Opterion; the whole process took about 25 minutes, an update, a hang ! and two restart's -no BSOD. The update was slow and the all or nothing update, leaves users vulnerable to the problems caused by hidden driver incompatibilities lurking within previous granular update failures of Windows Updates.

Take a look at the update histories before applying this all or nothing update. Failures lurking there can indicate potential trouble and see if you can trace the cause of the failure and try to fix the problem and I know that it's not always easy.

Always make an image copy of your System drive if at all possible before letting the update beast loose on you system. I'm reasonably computer literate but general users really have a problem by this System design change by Microsoft

It's not just Windows 10 Users affected Windows 7,8 & 8.1 users are now ensnared by this change ! - My ancient Vista Business PC is suddenly starting to look very attractive in the last 6 Months of its useful life.

[Edit A separate bag of Rats for another thread "Update ate my BIOS" I'm cautious about the validity of this one. Any experts?]


CAT III

[MG23]

It's not just Windows 10 Users affected Windows 7,8 & 8.1 users are now ensnared by this change !

My Windows 7 PC isn't. It's only used for video editing and games, so I turned off updates a while back to avoid Microsoft malware.

Well, that and because the 'update service' had started burning up an entire core all the time to do... who knows what?

[Guest 112233]

I stand to be corrected if Win 7 is not afflicted by this "Improvement" - I thought is was, if not please accept my apologies - Updating (attempting ) Vista Business PC as I type this - Not any sign of any updates as its EOL

CAT III

[Alsacienne]

A recent update of Windows 10 left considerable problems in its wake as regards my audio drivers (at least that's what my expert friend said they were) on my Surface. It required a return to factory settings and then reinstallation of all programs .... thank goodness for regular back ups to an external hard disk to keep my work intact.

I do find it a concern that these 'updates' happen/are forced upon me when I'm not expecting them, leading to dead time both on shut down and on switching on my computer after a 'shut down update'. I suppose that's new technology for you and progress ... but sometimes I'd feel happier with the same old same old .... my Windows7 home computer is far more user friendly even if it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of 10 - most of which I don't use/need.

[parabellum]

Rusty Sparrow - had exactly the same, same time scale too. You may be able to resolve it by starting up and loading from a Windows 10 disk, don't think there is any other way. Got half way through a re-load and the HDD packed up! Don't think I can blame that on Windows 10 though.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

About 12 months ago I purchased a Toshiba Laptop with Windows 10 already installed. It takes an age to boot up! At first it had lots of pop-ups but an IT Engineer made these go away. It is OK once fired up but as I say it takes ages.

[le Pingouin]

What's your definition of an "age"? I have an ancient Lenovo laptop (c2007) sporting 2GB RAM and it starts Win10 from a hard drive in 45 seconds to the log in screen and usable in less than 3 minutes. That's for a plain Win10 installation, not a laptop manufacturers installation.

You might want to look at all the extra crap Toshiba has lumbered you with loading at startup before you blame Win10.

FWIW Ubuntu is usable in 1:20 on the same laptop.

[Alsacienne]

For my surface, once Microsoft initiates updates on shut down it can take up to 2.5 hours ... and on restart at least 10 mins ... but I'm no techie and perhaps there are buttons I need to push (or toggle) somewhere on the control panel ...

[BEagle]

My HP Pavilion TouchSmart 10-e011sa 10.1" laptop has never been very quick. Initially it had Win8.1, but Micro$oft 'upgraded' it to Win10 without my knowledge or approval...

Internet connection was poor; I have 70Mbps Virgin broadband and get 74Mbps on my Dell laptop, but the HP struggles to get more than 12-13. Neither does it have 5GHz WiFi connectivity, which was a surprise.

That was bad enough, but over the last month it has been crashing with some obscure 'Thread stuck in device driver' message popping up. Fortunately I've paid for an extended care plan from CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet so it'll be going back next week for some work...

[Guest 112233]

Seeketh and ye shall find:

How to fix Windows 10 Thread Stuck In Device Driver error - windows 10 - Windows 10 (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/faq/id-3128638/fix-windows-thread-stuck-device-driver-error.html)

Give this a bash.

CAT III

[BEagle]

Thank you, CATIII-NDB, but I've already tried that without success....:sad:

[le Pingouin]

Now that you're aware it happens just reinstall Classic Shell and get on with life!

[andytug]

It's in the EULA for W10, you no longer own the software, Microsoft does and can choose to alter it at any time without your consent.

[le Pingouin]

You never have "owned" Windows.

[FullOppositeRudder]

OK - point taken - apologies tendered and I've deleted the post.

[le Pingouin]

For better or worse MS has taken the approach that if it thinks the program is incompatible with the Win10 update it will uninstall it. Not unreasonable from a system stability and usability perspective - users do tend to get upset when their systems stop working or eat their data after an update.

[BEagle]

Well, I went to collect my laptop from CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet today after its repair.....

To find that the operating system had been corrupted. But as well as updating the BIOS, they'd rolled back the OS to the original Win 8.1 state of over 2 years ago...

It was also covered in greasy finger prints and marks where they'd attached repair stickers. Whereas when I handed it in, it was in as new condition.

I refused to accept it until they've restored the current 'anniversary' version of Win 10 - they also said that if I wanted them to restore MS Office, they would charge me £35 even though the system is under extended warranty until July 2019...

[le Pingouin]

I doubt they would have rolled it back but reinstalled the original OS. i.e. returned it to the state you bought it in.

[Loose rivets]

BEagle, did you buy the 'service' with a Visa or some-such?

I'd be fuming about that and if within the time-scales, resort to the protection of the credit company. The problem will probably be the nature of the purchase inasmuch as it requires decision-making to effect a repair. However, that sounds like blatant bullying to me.

You were entitled, if not obliged by the owners of the software, to have the upgrade. I can not see how it's acceptable to be presented with an out of date OS following what is supposed to be skilled support.

[G0ULI]

This is a bit of a grey area where consumer rights are concerned. You buy the physical computer but the installed software/operating system usually has terms and conditions to which you must agree.

PC World probably have a clause in their extended warrantee to the effect that it only covers fixing faults in the physical parts of the computer and restoring software that was originally supplied with the computer, or installed and set up by them.

As a computer user you are free to choose from a huge variety of operating systems and supporting programs. It would be unreasonable to expect PC World or any other supplier to be keen on providing support and roll back for anything other than the software originally supplied by the manufacturer at the time the computer was purchased.

A good general rule of thumb is that software updates should be sourced from the computer manufacturer and not directly from Microsoft. The version supplied direct from Microsoft is generic and should work with most machines, but there are certain parts that are specifically fine tuned and tailored by computer manufacturers to work with their specific hardware set up.

Hewlett Packard in my experience can be a bit slow rolling out tailored versions of Windows updates. That can be a bit frustrating, especially as the default settings of many programs look at the software developer sites rather than Hewlett Packard's support site for updates. That appears to be the source of most incompatibilities and problems that occured with my system.

Good luck with trying to get your computer fixed to your satisfaction. I fear it will become a long and tedious process for the reasons explained above. There is no reason that your computer should come back from repair in anything other than a pristine state. Greasy fingerprints and dirt should never be evident on the casing and are unacceptable.

[Loose rivets]

Reasonable? I'm not sure about that. The cost was for a service, not soft or hardware. I would expect them to take all reasonable care of the installed software even if not repair it per se.


Even cars these days are reliant on the software being in perfect order. The darn things soon let us know if it isn't.

[le Pingouin]

If the OS is corrupt requiring a re-installation of the OS how were they meant to return it to the modified condition you gave it to them in? How would they know what that modified condition specifically was? The responsibility for that falls to you and your back-ups.

[BEagle]

Although the BIOS had become corrupted somehow, it wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to have noticed that the laptop was running Win10 'anniversary', not the >2 year old version of Win8.1 with which it was returned, grubby paw prints fully embodied.

After I went back again to collect the laptop after the store had reinstalled Win10 plus all the updates, it took me a couple of days to remove all the junk 'start' icons and other 'things-for-kids' which the puerile Win10 rams down your throat, reinstall the anti virus, reinstall MS Office, create desktop shortcuts, restore the desktop background, restore the HomeGroup, reinstall the printer etc etc....

To be honest, most of the PITA is due to Windows-bloody-Ten! I far, far preferred the functionality of WinXP, although Win7 is almost as good. But Win10 and Office 2013 between them really are very poor substitutes as far as HMI and funcitionality are concerned.

And don't start me on that Cortana bolleaux!

[Loose rivets]

It really is an investment in time to get everything working again and now that one can not just plonk in a spare drive, I'm starting to think the small sum for a second PC is probably worth it. I was going to offload the i5 dual core once the quad was commissioned, but not now. It can just come out for updating and backups. I'm not sure if a laptop would qualify for this job as they are A/ More valuable by far. B/Not as fixable. C/Not possible to fit a huge ('Red' for example) drive for backup. I know little about long-life 2.5" drives.


Yes, I was surprised one needed cortana for Windows to function so not possible to zap it altogether. I do turn everything off however, which happily leaves the box for searching. It seems possible to turn any item back on if needed.

I've created a restore point called 'Microsoft Edge only' which is also auto-dated and timed. Next one will hopefully be 'Firefox and Office' etc., etc.

But still I'm risking everything on one drive - fast as it is. (25 seconds from pressing the power button to active desktop.) I know they meld Apps with the OS but while having the full un-installed copy on another partition buys some insurance, there's nothing like having a separate boot drive which can also back up top priority files. One remote drive as well and One can start to breath easy.

[Guest 112233]

2.5" drives do tend to be more life sensitive in terms of operating temperatures. There are statistically valid studies out there.

You may consider buying a Laptop capable of accommodating both a SSD and a HDD. Off hand I cannot think of one but I did own an Ailenware Laptop that had this capability.
OK modern SSD do have lots of what is referred to as Over-provisioning. In other words The physical write/read capacity of the SSD is a lot more than its data holding capacity. (the same applies to Magnetic media too but SSD's are by their physics different.

The specialist Tech web pages contain the required Info.

To conclude from a professional data storage perspective, if you are going SSD, make systematic regular copies of your critical data and make systematic regular image backups so that using the methods previously noted.

The problem being SSD's do fail and without warning.

CAT III

[BEagle]

Despite its alleged repair and reinstallation of Win10, my HP is still freezing and crashing...

31 Oct - rang Knowhow who advised a short test. That showed a C:drive error, so they told me that once that was corrected, to check again.

I did - no better.

1 Nov - rang Knowhow again, this time they advised an extended system test, then to check again.

I did - no better.

2 Nov - rang Knowhow again, this time they advised a system reset to reinstall Win10, then my antivirus program, then check again.

I did - still freezing and crashing, with the occasional 'Thread stuck in device driver' BSOD and reboot. I rang Knowhow again and they told me that there wasn't anything more which they could recommend over the phone, so to take the computer back to CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet again...

During the evening, the computer managed to download and install more Win10 updates, but it still doesn't work correctly. This morning it froze yet again; after a restart I tried watching YouTube and that was nigh on impossible - audio crackling, a few seconds of motion then long periods of static image...

Knowhow have been very courteous and understanding, but the computer will going back to the shop today on double secret probation - last chance before it gets an involuntary flying lesson!

[Guest 112233]

Its beginning to look like a hardware fault. Is there any possibility of a motherboard replacement if woth the cost. How old is the kit ? If it came with Win 8.1 it cannot be that old.

CAT III

[BEagle]

I bought it in July 2014 - it's never been particularly good though.

The chaps in the shop agreed that it isn't working properly, in fact one of them said it was "possessed"! So it's gone back for another repair attempt...

Due back in a week's time; if it's still slow I'll be asking to replace it with something else as it's under extended warranty until July 2019. I had a play with a couple of similarly-spec'd laptops in the store today and they were lightning fast in comparison!

[Loose rivets]

Rushing for hospital, but BE, if I can be of help later, I'd be pleased to do so. I can't recall, has it gon an SSD? If standard type, it might be possible to put a loaner in and see if it runs. Drivers won't matter for the most part.

I put my stray W10 into a laptop and it ran well apart from no fuction numbers set up. It would do a test.

[BEagle]

That's kind of you, but there's no data on the laptop which isn't backed-up elsewhere - so if Knowhow can't fix it, I'll be after a replacement...including the Office and McAfee programs which were included in the original deal, plus my remaining Knowhow cloud and care plan subscription time.

[BEagle]

The saga continues! Went to collect it today, only to find that they'd reloaded Win8.1 yet again after an 'operating system corrupt' fault. Of course the greasy finger marks were added again and it looked like someone had wiped the screen with a wet cloth :mad:

So now they're going to have yet another attempt at reinstalling Win10 plus all associated updates. I'm due to collect it on Saturday afternoon...

[Prophead]

Ever since installing Windows 10 my Laptop has been running really hot. The fan was going constantly and things were slowing down. It seemed as if there was something always running in the background. Sometimes it wouldn't even go into sleep mode when I closed the lid, just keep running and getting hotter. When I lookend at task manager my hard drive would be running 100% and be in red.

I eventually found out the fix and it has transformed my laptop. It now runs much faster and cooler plus it goes into sleep mode properly and starts quicker. My hard drive went straight from 100% to 5%.

It was all down to the window notification setting. If you go to settings/system/notifications and turn them off then it makes a big difference.

[BEagle]

That's a useful tip, prophead!

Well, I went to CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet yesterday to collect the ailing laptop...

It took ages to boot up, then the very helpful and knowledgeable Knowhow assistant ran some form of performance test using a program on a USB stick which he had with him. But when he opened a browser, the whole thing froze and the cursor disappeared - "That's what you've been getting, I guess?", he asked. When I told him it was, he wrote out another ticket, recommending that it should now be written-off and that I should receive a credit voucher towards a new system - I'll know the result in a few days time.

I was also told that only 2Gb of RAM and a 2 core processor won't really cope with Win10 'Anniversary' upgrade - plus all the kiddies' toys that it includes. Thank you so VERY much, Micro$oft...:(

[Loose rivets]

Hopefully it will have more to do with the low memory than the dual core . . . he said, questioningly.

[le Pingouin]

Who recommended you buy a system with 2GB of RAM in the first place? That was never going to be much chop as a general use system. Fine for very basic and limited use but not if you're wanting to do more than light browsing and e-mail.

I doubt it was either of those Rivets - sounds more like a hardware issue.

[Booglebox]

I remember when I got a computer with 2gb RAM. I opened every application on it at once just because I could.
An SSD-equipped multi-core PC with 2gb RAM is fine for lots of things, as long as you aren't using a memory-hungry browser.

[BEagle]

Well, it seems that CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet weren't prepared to write it off, so back I went yesterday to collect it - with its new hard drive.

"It still has Win8.1, please re-install Win10!"

"Certainly sir - should only take 30-40 min"

So I went for a wander around the store. Lots of very nice toys!

40 min later it was still updating...

1:40 later it was still updating...

2:40 later it had done its initial Win10 update, but was downloading yet more Win10 updates...and had been at 33% for about 30 min.

"Do you want to take it and let it keep updating, sir?"

"No - I'd like you to check the update and make sure everything is OK, then ring me to let me know when it's ready"

"Certainly, sir"

So we'll see how it goes this week...:\

[FlightDetent]

Sounds like all they did was pass it around the departments, eventually overwriting the drive with the original factory disk image, hoping for the problem to go away... Not what I'd call expert work, but that's semantics. Well, wait - that's how you actually fight with possesed objects :)

Needless to say, as long as everything is backed up and you stand a fair chance of getting a decent new unit as a replacement, you went to the best place. Based on your description of their approach to the upgrade towards W10, that ending is surely coming soon.

[BEagle]

The saga continues....

Even CurrysPCWorldDigitalDixonsComet's resident computer guru couldn't get the laptop to work acceptably with Win10 'anniversary' and all its updates, so he contacted the head office and they've agreed to exchange it.

So I'll be getting a 11.6" laptop with RAM extension from 2GB to 8GB and a 64GB SD card to eliminate the need to store anything much on the C-drive. Plus Antivirus, Windows 365 and an extended warranty. With all the current promotions, plus a pro rata refund for the unused part of the extended care plan for the old laptop, in the end I'll probably be up about £5 on the whole deal...:ok:

(Apart from the cost of the petrol used for 7 visits to the store, that is!)

I was due to collect it today once they'd done the RAM extension, but they rang to apologise and told me that the wrong type had been sent - the laptop has a single layer RAM slot and the extension module was 2 x 4GB. So I could either have it today with 1 x 4GB, or wait until the middle of next week for a single layer 8GB module. I've chosen the latter option.

Hope it'll be worth the wait though!

[parabellum]

Are you happy with Office 365 BEagle? I believe it is a 'cloud' based system and requires a hefty renewal fee each year. I've stuck with Office 7 and 10.

[BEagle]

parabellum, I think it works out at about £8 per month for Office365.

You can store documents in a 'cloud' if you wish, or just keep them on the computer. Neither do you need to be on-line to use it, although it makes sense to do so every so often, in order to receive the free upgrades.

I'm quite happy with Office 2007 on this laptop, but the equivalent 2016 version costs nearly £200.

[BEagle]

I finally collected the Acer Aspire ES1-131 with 8GB RAM extension on Saturday evening - and it's a nice little device, being so light and compact.

Then came yesterday and a bit of a faff installing McAfee. I'd actually been sold an extra year's extension to my existing protection, whereas I thought it was a new and different product - so it wouldn't install. But after contacting McAfee's excellent Indian-based customer support, they sorted it all out and all seems fine now.

Another Win10 update then followed - together with an alert that the machine was running low on memory...:(

Today I tried to install Office365, but couldn't do so as I didn't have enough free disk space. Huh? There's nothing saved on it yet... But I was able to get through to Currys PC World and they explained why. It seems that Dear Uncle Bill's Win10 updates save previous Windows versions to the C-drive, so as it was only 32 GB in the first place, it was almost full. They explained how to sort this - you click on the Start button, type 'clear' and that takes you to the disk clear up application, which calculates how much space you can gain. When it has opened, click again on 'clean up system files' and it'll do another scan. When the music stops, scroll down to 'old windows versions' or something like that - tick the box and delete. That gained me nearly 10 GB of disk space, so I was then able to download and install Office365...and yet more Win10 updates.

Currys PC World have been very polite and helpful throughout - and it's great to have a lightweight back-up computer again!

[Graywallis]

Hi,
I read BEagle's rant and have a solution. I had exactly the same problem with my HP 10-e011sa with exactly the same symptons. The solution turned out to be some nitwit at MicroSoft who has designated the display driver for this machine with W10 as being from AMD/Radeon version 21.19.137.1 of September 16 this year. If you delete the driver it briefly (15 minutes or so) works exactly as it should with a Generic uSoft display driver. However after ~15 minutes correct operation, W10 decides it needs the 'Correct' driver and re-installs the dodgy version from AMD. The actual solution is to then 'Roll-Back' the driver to the previous version from uSoft and it should continue to work correctly. (I have had 2 weeks good operation since my remedial action.) The run-around from Currys/PCW/etc just goes to show their general incompetence. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930 goes some way towards explaining why the Roll-Back works over the driver deletion.

[BEagle]

That's interesting! I did actually mention that the AMD update seemed to be causing issues, but they told me that the AMD website would identify whether I had the correct driver. So I tried that and it told me that I had the correct driver - obviously that was the problem as clearly I hadn't as you state.

Still, I far prefer the Acer Aspire ES1-131 to the HP 10-e011sa - especially since it has cost me nothing apart from several trips to Oxford!

Surely the real issue is Microsoft not checking to ensure that their updates are fully compatible with consumers' devices?

[Graywallis]

I am trying to alert Microsoft just now as I quite like having all my updates 'up-to-date'. Your description, including 'Thread stuck in device driver', matched my PC symptoms exactly and I have tried an awful lot of variations to solve it. This included completely dismembering the thing and disconnecting mousepad and keyboard, replaced by USB equivalent and even a close examination of the motherboard using a jewelers loupe. I even purchased some mini fans (5V) in the hope that it might just be a lack of cooling. It is now running with an SSD instead of HDD and although the operation is definitely not up to current speeds is more than enough for what I want as a portable travelling PC.
Currently the OEM no longer controls which drivers are used for their products on W10, the responsibility having been devolved to (taken by) Microsoft. When the OEM had control then at least they had a commercial interest for a while in maintaining their product.

[Savanna Dry]

Sorry if this has already been asked but I can't read through due to very weak 3G.

Just doing first backup on new laptop (4 weeks old). Went to control panel in Win 10 and it shows: 'Back up and Restore (Windows 7). Why please? It seems to be running OK.

[Bushfiva]

That backup and restore option is compatible with Windows 7 backups. So you can continue to backup to Windows 7-style sets and, more importantly, you can restore data from Windows 7 sets.

The normal backup method for Windows 10 is Filehistory, and there are a bazillion third-party solutions of course.

[Mac the Knife]

Well, I've now lived with my Win10 upgrade and subsequent reinstall for 2 months and I'm still finding niggling problems and fixing them. I HAVE considered buying a new boot drive (I always keep my profile & data on a separate drive) and doing a total reinstall from scratch, but I seem to have finally managed to get things sorted out.

For all it's touted robustness, you have to be VERY careful doing non-standard things to the OS and the upgrade process really doesn't work too well, leaving an enormous amount of dross in the system, which Windows10 doesn't clean up.

As some of you may have discovered, Win10 no longer has the Media Centre, yet leaves all sorts of references to it in the Registry and boot process. To have a clean system all this has to be removed by hand, with lots of system images made at every turn of the way, in case of some weird regression.

DISM just plain doesn't work. The syntax varies, depending on which genius on the MS Technet wrote in his/her little bit, which is worrying.

The Recovery Environment didn't have winre.wim in it, so until I had extracted it from the iso and replaced it I couldn't even make a System Recovery disk.

All in all an irritating and frustrating experience, though I have learned quite a bit about the system internals of Win10.

It all just reinforces my belief that in Windows at least, upgrades just don't work cleanly.

Bit different from Linux, where you can swap kernels on the fly...

kexec -l /boot/new-kernel --initrd=/boot/new-initrd --reuse-cmdline kexec -e

But my old mobo, though it does have AHCI, can only handle HDDs/SDDs
at 300Gbs rather than the 600Gbs that they're capable of,
so I'm still I/O bound and the dual core CPU is starting to show it's age.

Time to dig into the savings and build myself another vehicle.

Mac

[Guest 112233]

I'm a Linux (64 Bit Ubuntu 16.04) user with an old Quad Core Intel® Core™2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz × 4 + GeForce GT 610/PCIe/SSE2 Graphics Processor. + 8 Gig of DDR2 800Mhz RAM. Old DG451 M Board. (As posted on Jet Blast) - The limiting factor for this ancient bit of Kit is both the Memory and I/O controller Temperatures.

AHCL is set in the bios: The little (500 MB) Raptor SATA 1 HDD & Toshiba Red 3TB (Sata 1) disks are I/O limited. (Running temps 29 & 30 Deg C even under load)

In the right (modern motherboard SATA III) environment even disks like these can give great results, the 3TB can even now; give burst reads in excess of 200 MB a second on the kit described & great for internal imaging.

In your circumstances I would keep the SSD/HDD combination and re build the MB and CPU from new with careful attention to RAM Specs.

To complicate things I think Win 10 will have to be re validated.

Please post your progress as I'm finding Windows 7 & 8.1 updates on a variety of my kit to be increasingly problematic.

CAT III

[wrenchalot]

Went out to my computer store today for different things, and took the opportunity to ask about all the issues with W10.
He told me that all the issues are related to upgrading or downloading of W10 while on W7 or whatever you've got running.
Their free upgrade caused all these problems.
The solution is to uninstall W7, THEN install W10 from scratch; doing that he said, is the key; W10 works great then.
Hope this helps someone.
Good luck.

[oldpax]

You would think that by Win10 the microsoft whiz kids would have perfected their software by now.Do the forumites think MS is working on Win 11 at this moment?

[gemma10]

Yep they`re working on W11, and for W10 users there will be a box at the bottom right hand corner that states "If you do not want to install W11 click here.":E

[BEagle]

gemma10, I sincerely hope you're joking...:uhoh:

[andytug]

Looks like another W10 update issue here Busted Windows 8, 10 update blamed for breaking Brits' DHCP ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/09/mysterious_windows_10_networking_bug/)

[Graywallis]

Wrenchalot is correct. I now have a completely fresh install of W10 replacing the W8 upgrade to W10. Much better operation, especially since AMD have got round to producing a display driver dated 4th Dec 2016 which actually works.
I thought the whole idea of W10 was that we wouldn't get another version....

[Guest 112233]

I've read the article: and the associated comments - There's a problem with DHCP re the language.

Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol is to my knowledge; used to allocate internal node IP addresses locally by your router within the domain of your local LAN.

The article seems to relate to problems with ISP allocation of router external internet facing WAN (wide area network addresses) to their population of issued user paying customers.

The article is ambiguous: and requires better explanation.

CATIII-NDB

[MG23]

No. The article says that Windows machines can't get DHCP addresses from the routers any more. Presumably Microsoft pushed out an update without testing it properly which has broken DHCP requests to those routers for some reason.

It's almost as though laying off thousands of QA staff a year or two back was a bad idea.

[ExXB]

From the Beeb:

Microsoft has also offered guidance to those experiencing difficulties.

"Some customers using Windows 10 have reported difficulties connecting to the internet," said a spokeswoman for Microsoft.

"As a first step, we recommend customers restart their PCs.

"If this does not resolve the problem, visit our website for further support."

If this is the best they can suggest, visiting their web sight when unable to connect to the internet, I would recommend upgrading to a Mac.

[Guest 112233]

MG: Thanks I will re read the article.

ExXB. In suggesting the Users contact their Software support. I think Microsoft have realised that, given the spectacular performance of Win 10; Users have already bought alternative hardware, are secretly Apple/Linux users or do not live alone.

CAT III

[Addendum]

Win 10 is beginning to look like Vista with Bells on. In trying to develop an Operating System and its associated interface, that works across a variety of platforms (ARM Versions coming soon), in combination with the sacking a large proportion of their QA/QC in house staff, Microsoft have, in some respects; over reached their technical ability to provide a functioning O/S.

There are too many unknowns with Win 10 and using their customer base as a set of beta Testers has been a terrible mistake.

[Mac the Knife]

Thanks CAT III!

My Linux and BSD rigs never give me so much bother - problems are much easier to fix without that G'damned registry. And as for the Mac - 'nuff sed.

Now to find a decent midrange mobo (with plenty of slots) and a corresponding quad-core CPU.

Any ideas?

Anyone?

Mac :cool:

[Guest 112233]

I have this evening updated the 8.1( Borrowed PC) a Dell 5500 not my antique Win 7.Vostro - It consumed 320 + Megabytes with the download commencing at about 19.20 Z - updated quickly 40 mins total including the requisite "Star Thrower" logo restart. Twice

Anti Vir Scan (commenced 20.20 Z after (C-Cleaner Scan) finished 23.52 Z (On batteries - Mains P/S on loan to Neighbour W10 Person) - Norton of course. 830K plus files processed.

This beast (I7 early model is well behaved) - In all honesty there's more to life.

Watch the W10 forums tomorrow/ sorry today. CAT III

Edit: BEagle I'm afraid the stories about a W11 may be true !

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Has anyone been able to run the Airbus PDP using Windows 10? It's not working for me now, and I'm not sure if it's Windows or something else with my computer that's stopping it.

[BEagle]

With all the problems Microsoft has inflicted on consumers with the execrable Windows 8, marginally less rubbish Win 8.1 and now the bloated made-for-childrens'-toys Windows 10, is it any surprise that the European market share for Win 10 fell in September, whereas the share for Win 7 increased...??

Out of interest, does anyone over the age of about 14 use that 'Cortana' nonsense?

[Guest 112233]

Market Share by Operating System by a sampling of Internet usage.

This is a statistical sampling of O.S usage by internet traffic share and has therefore to be treated as a guide. It must be treated as a sampling metric not an absolute count of users.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

I have no connection with the organisation. I only use the free data provided.

CAT III [edit: The data is for desktops in my posted link, so you may need edit the options - It is a subscription service unfortunately]

[FullOppositeRudder]

Interesting to observe that one of Australia's most popular low cost computer supply chains is still offering Windows 7 Professional as an OEM option, and at a marginally higher price than the W 10 equivalent .....

[Bushfiva]

Windows 10 Pro comes with downgrade rights to Windows 7 Pro, though it can be a bit of a hassle depending on the manufacturer.

[parabellum]

Just bought a new Dell all in one Inspiron with Windows 7 installed by Dell. Wasn't available from the Home range but was available from their Small Business range. (That is Dell Australia, supplied by Malaysia). It came with a Windows 10 disk which I shall use to try and recover my first Dell Inspiron AIO which crashed, irretrievably, I was told, when I tried to do a System Restore in Windows 10.

[BEagle]

Yet another HUGE Win10 'feature update' has recently been launched - anyone with one of the thousands of 32Gb eMMC laptops sold on Black Friday or in the run up to Christmas has no doubt received a pop-up stating that the space-hungry bloated Win10 wants more C-drive space than is available. If you've installed Office365 and McAfee LiveSafe, there just isn't enough space left to cope...

Surely those idiotic M$ geeks who've caused this problem would have market-tested their updates before inflicting them on an unsuspecting public?

[Booglebox]

16gb storage is enough for Win10. Make sure you've disabled hibernation, swap/page, etc.