View Full Version : 777 300 ER payload.
Turbokite
3rd Feb 2016, 04:17
Ladies and gentlemen, good drivers of the desert carrier. Would someone please educate me on the perf. capabilities of the 777W.
EK 720 ex HKJK seems to be "payload restricted" every single day, to use the exact words ground staff there use to deny rebated staff on subload tickets boarding.
Yesterday was the highlight of this "payload restriction", the service had only 200 pax as booked load, but not one staff could get a seat because of payload. Is it that there is too much cargo being hauled out of this station? That once they know they have low numbers of revenue pax, they prefer to utilize the remaining payload on Cargo. At this rate, even an empty 777W ex HKJK will not be able to take staff travelers. Maybe they should politely ask their staff from this station to start looking for alternative travel, because even with 150 plus seats unoccupied, you still can't get on, or maybe i am missing something about the perf. of this bird. Someone please educate this poor soul.
nakbin330
3rd Feb 2016, 04:39
Without doing any specific performance calculations, I would assume that the 77W would not be limited in any way, NBO-DXB. High elevation but short sector. I stand to be corrected though ...
Brand new plane and she was planned at max zero fuel weight.
Guessing RTOW was structural.
Quick maths with 200pax means 50 tonnes of freight.
Should replace it with a 380!
But l suspect quite a bit of freight was in there too.
halas
Avid Aviator
3rd Feb 2016, 05:11
As above, she was indeed max ZFW, to the last kg. Means 64,000kg payload but no good for anyone or thing on standby. :(
Plenty of margin below max T/O weight as a relatively short sector.
JAARule
3rd Feb 2016, 05:25
Turbo, the best part (for the company) is if you're staff then come payday they will already have your money even if you gave up on the flight and you can't get a refund until the next salary payment by which time you may have forgotten and they get to keep your cash.
254HEAVY
3rd Feb 2016, 05:27
Yes they tend to take alot of perishables cargo on the way back which they need more than pax!
I recall last year KQ304 using T7 in some flights due to lots of perishables cargo needed in DXB. Normally they use 738 for the route.
Turbokite
3rd Feb 2016, 06:40
Thanks for the response guyz, i just couldn't wrap my head around it when the ground staff announced they had a payload restriction, and therefore wouldn't be taking us.
It sucks when one is on standby.
lospilotos
3rd Feb 2016, 06:45
Brand new plane and she was planned at max zero fuel weight.
Guessing RTOW was structural.
Quick maths with 200pax means 50 tonnes of freight.
Should replace it with a 380!
But l suspect quite a bit of freight was in there too.
halas
Doesn't make any difference for sby pax whether it's A or B if you load it up to MZFW does it?
lospilotos
3rd Feb 2016, 06:47
This also renders the wonderful "stoplight" system pretty much useless as you never can be sure to get on even on a half empty flight.
Turbokite
3rd Feb 2016, 07:02
Maybe he meant the A380 would have extra payload that could take the poor staff back to camp, over and above the 50 tonnes of freight out of that station.
But it just seems to get tighter as they deploy bigger equipment. Back in the days of the minibus, i would never bother showing up to the airport on a rebated ticket. You were sure to be bumped off, even if the aircraft had 200 seats empty. Then came the 340-500, and the reprieve was temporary. They finally deployed the 777, and there was a sigh of relief that maybe, just maybe, the days of being bumped off empty cabins is over, we are back here again :ugh:.
So maybe you are right, even with A380, the loading will just be up to max. ZFW and no weight to take the sbys.
If it were 380 then cargo is not an issue, and then as a result staff would get on. ;)
Turbokite figured it out.
halas
lospilotos
3rd Feb 2016, 12:51
If it were 380 then cargo is not an issue, and then as a result staff would get on. ;)
Turbokite figured it out.
halas
Guess you're just intentionally ignoring my point...
Shangaan
4th Feb 2016, 11:25
Gents here is the answer and I hope all the crew read this.
!! This is specific to NBO and JNB with staff on standby but the flights have plenty of seats available. !!!
For flights departing NBO and JNB Flight Dispatch calculates a RTOW based on the forecast conditions for your departure. This RTOW is then captured by CLC and now becomes payload restricted. This RTOW will not be increased unless the crew releases a revised RTOW to CLC. This is why it is important when arriving at the airport to discuss with the EK Duty officer to get the staff away.
Now where the issue comes in is that the flight closes at STD -60min. By then most crew have not yet released the higher RTOW based on the actual conditions. This results in the flight closing on the original planned RTOW and the staff being left behind.
The quicker the crew and the EK staff can increase the RTOW the quicker the staff can get on.
This is why at NBO and JNB staff is on standby while there is more then enough seats open.
Have a good day gents.
Monarch Man
4th Feb 2016, 13:01
Shangaan, it makes 3/5th of **** all difference if the aircraft planned load is MZFW, only when the actual ZFW is arrived at can load control advise you of any changes.
Given that at both these stations I've often not received a ZFW until ETD-40 or later, achieving anything before that is simply a pipe dream, and in the case of NBO I've had a revision of ZFW above the max for the aircraft type, i.e 300 v 300ER
lospilotos
4th Feb 2016, 15:11
Are standby pax issued standby boarding passes, so they can wait at the gate (should they wish so) and then possible getting on last minute when all the "normal" figures are finalized?
In my experience, any 2.1 tonnes available is freight and not staff.
Lospilotos.
My point was if 380 you can fill it with as much cargo as you can, but eventually you run out of space. Unless you start filling the seats with cargo, staff get on.
Turbokite got it.
halas
Why not? :E
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lospilotos
5th Feb 2016, 05:48
In my experience, any 2.1 tonnes available is freight and not staff.
Lospilotos.
My point was if 380 you can fill it with as much cargo as you can, but eventually you run out of space. Unless you start filling the seats with cargo, staff get on.
Turbokite got it.
halas
Unless you fill up the hold with lead.. ;-) Thanks Halas, I wasn't aware of the cargo hold limitations of the 380.
Turbokite
5th Feb 2016, 13:09
@Lospiliotos, there is nothing like sby boarding pass, they shue you away from the check in counters like you got plague, telling you they have no clue if there is space until they check in the very last commercial pax. Then they round you up for the good or bad news 50 min before departure time. :sad:
I experienced the sby boarding pass travelling on Virgin and i think Delta as well. I think it is a pretty neat idea. At least there seems to be some effort to get you on board, rather than being treated like a big bother. :(
Turbokite gets it like everyone else.
halas