Urgent - Government Dept all set to scrap last two Giant SRN4's

[execExpress]

http://www.dover-express.co.uk/images/localworld/ugc-images/276432/Article/images/28633250/12300237-large.jpg

https://www.change.org/p/homes-and-communities-agency-save-the-princess-anne-the-last-remaining-srn4-hovercraft-for-the-nation?recruiter=479122814&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-reason_msg&fb_ref=Default

Hello All,

Professional pilots flew these giant machines across the channel daily for 33 years - perhaps some here would be keen to help save at least one from the bulldozers that are now to scrap the two survivors stored at Lee-on-Solent!

I am sure many aviation and marine engineers and pilots would wish at least one of the Giant Cross-Channel SRN4 hovercraft to be saved from the bulldozers for the nation. It is almost miraculous that two still exist in 2017 but both are now to be scrapped - unless a last-ditch rescue plan urgently gains popular support.

Please support and help publicise the campaign if you can - thank you!

These giant craft were operated by pilots with aviation licences and flights were regulated by the aviation authorities. mod's please move to other forum if appropriate, thank you!

https://www.change.org/p/homes-and-communities-agency-save-the-princess-anne-the-last-remaining-srn4-hovercraft-for-the-nation?recruiter=479122814&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-lg-no_src-reason_msg&fb_ref=Default

[cwatters]

I travelled on these a few times. Amazing beasts. Have signed the petition.

[execExpress]

#BBC News coverage Hoverspeed hovercraft set to be destroyed - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35445419)

[captplaystation]

Had the privilege of a "Jump Seat" ride on one when I communicated I was doing the same route (well CDG-LHR-CDG ) twice a day in a 737.

Fascinating machine, and was very happily able to reciprocate for both guys, as we were living in "calmer times" at that moment.

[fox niner]

I always wondered how they would calculate their top of descend.
Nontheless, very cool pieces of engineering...

[G-CPTN]

I, too, had a jump-seat ride when I (mischievously) asked the hostie if I could "go out on deck" - meaning outside . . .

She returned a few minutes later and I was invited to follow her (through the vehicle deck) and then up a staircase to the 'cockpit'.

The pilot was talkative and described himself as "neither fish nor fowl" and explained the rules and how the machine was operated.

The view from the cockpit was free from the spray that enveloped the rest of the 'craft'.

[3wheels]

No, they were not operated by pilots with aviation licences, and neither were they regulated by aviation authorities.
Anyway good luck in your quest!

[AirUK]

Like the Steam Train, the Glider, the jet engine, the Comet, Concorde and Harrier, this is a true icon of British technological history, one of those eccentric but brilliant inventions we should be proud of and look after appropriately. In an age where other nations now get the enthusiasm and funding from their governments to develop and test new weird and wonderful transportation machines which may one day see regular use by the masses, this iconic British invention, engineering masterpiece and important part of our recent history, should be preserved for future generations so we can show them how truly 'Great', forward-thinking and technologically-advanced Britain once was.

Please help save just one of the largest - the British Hovercraft Corporation (Saunders-Roe) SR.N4 'Princess Anne'. You'll also be preserving all the hard work and dedication that hundreds of designers, engineers and crew gave so that thousands could enjoy this once taken-for-granted ultra-quick method of marine-aviation transport linking the UK to the continent. Please sign the petition above.

[DGAC]

Rather than scrap these machines, surely one of them could be preserved at the Science Museum site at Wroughton. Might also be able to give rides there on Open Days!!

[skridlov]

The money would be better spent elsewhere I'd suggest. Whilst I'd agree that maintaining one of these beasts as a static display would be preferable to junking them both, I'd offer the opinion that maintaining even one in operational condition would be a gigantic waste of money. These are cross-Channel ferries! Imagine one trundling round Duxford...

I well remember the introduction of the first few hovercraft. They were hailed as a British revolution in transportation (British!) that was soon going to be seen in all kinds of applications. I also worked for a while with a woman who had been a hostess on one of these craft. The most lasting impression it left on her was the quantity of vomit she had to work around in less than perfect weather. No doubt there may be a few residual applications in the military where these craft are still extremely useful but in the main they were a technological cul-de-sac.

Now the "Caspian Sea Monster" Ekranoplans is a different matter. I'd pay for a trip round the bay on that.

[Wageslave]

Now the "Caspian Sea Monster" Ekranoplans is a different matter. I'd pay for a trip round the bay on that.

Sad that the hovercraft, which did work, comes out second in line to a ride on the ekranoplan which didn't, although the monster certainly won on sheer weirdness.

The trouble with preserving these things is, I suspect not only money but their size. They are simply huge and I very much doubt you'd ever manage to get one to Cosford or Duxford. Someone needs to find not only a stack of cash but a suitable acreage of land accessible from the sea via a sloping beach - and that assumes they are still operable which I haven't seen stated so far. They'd be unlikely to come apart into roadable size bits so how the heck would you shift them?

56 X 23 metres and 300T laden weight. (The area of 5 tennis courts)

[Pozidrive]

Have I missed something in the links - how is this a "Government Dept" that intends to scrap these? No reference to who actually owns them.

[Steviec9]

On the basis that passenger hovercraft in the UK are registered with the CAA and the SRN4 were powered by aero engines, I'm taking a punt and flagging this up here.

A terrible shame (again) if one of these leviathans are not saved for posterity. The Saunders Roe Princess class flying boat was lost and it would seem absurd to lose these too.

Petition to save last cross-Channel hovercraft - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35449474)

[lawrence hole]

These magnificent hovercraft are an example of British inventiveness by Christopher Cockerell who would turn in his grave if he knew that these two remaining examples could finish up on the scrapheap. One at least needs to be saved for the World's only Hovercraft Museum if enough persons will support the petition which can be seen on the Museum's website, otherwise
we will have no remaining live exhibit to show future generations this important heritage.

[Out Of Trim]

The Ramsgate Hoverport concrete slope still exists. However, a hangar would be required to be built to preserve one indoors.

That is of course, if one could get there under it's own power! :)

[India Four Two]

I've signed up. I have never even seen an N4, but my dad worked for Hoverwork/Hovertravel, so I'm well acquainted with N6s.

It's interesting that the Beeb can't even get their video right. The aerial shots are of a Hovertravel AP1-88, not an N4!

Petition here: http://www.hovercraft-museum.org/

[Steviec9]

It's interesting that the Beeb can't even get their video right. The aerial shots are of a Hovertravel AP1-88, not an N4!


I noticed that too. Still, at least it is an actual hovercraft and not a catamaran - that would be too ironic even for a journalistic lazy mistake.

[G-CPTN]

As an engineering student, we received a lecture in the early 1960s from Christopher Cockerell about his invention.

Soon after news of his idea had emerged, CC received a visit from representatives of the Army (or maybe just 'Defence') who grilled him as to the potential.

He explained that the machine did, indeed have cross-country capabilities, and questioned in what role they saw his invention being 'necessary'.

He pointed out that they already had Land Rovers and larger 4x4s - but they said that these were hindered by obstructions such as hedges.

CC did a calculation to increase the hover height to 6ft and pointed out that the curtain area necessary would produce a vehicle too wide to fit between trees in hedges.

The military chiefs demanded another calculation for a machine capable of hovering high enough to pass over trees.

The resulting machine would have had to be large enough that it would have been capable of carrying the entire British Army (as it was in the 1950s).

[JamesBird]

As AirUK implies, the hovercraft is another one of those fantastic British solutions looking for a problem. As a point of interest these craft were characterised and perhaps approved? more like aircraft than boats If a project were to be funded, would this be a return to flight (RTF)? I ask because most unlikely RR be interested in zero timing any Proteus engines. Is a hovercraft flying or just performing fast taxiing?

[India Four Two]

Is a hovercraft flying or just performing fast taxiing? Try taxiing at 50kts on a rough, slippery taxiway! One of the issues for other mariners, when dealing with hovercraft, is visually assessing the track which can vary dramatically from the craft's heading.

The SRN craft were built like aircraft and had expensive gas-turbine engines, so they were fragile and expensive to operate. The second generation craft (AP1-88) were built more like aluminium work boats and had marine diesel engines, so they were much more durable and the operating costs were lower.

I remember my dad coming home one day, very happy because he had discovered that the amber anti-collision beacons on the SRN-6s were the same as those on the "Ryde Council dustcarts". So he was able to buy them from a commercial vehicle dealer for a fraction of the cost of a CAA-approved aircraft part!

I don't know if it is still there, but rather than install radar on each craft, Hovertravel installed a radar on the roof of the Esplanade Hotel in Ryde and in foggy weather, one of the pilots would operate as an "en route and approach controller". The hotel's owner liked to brag that he had the only "radar-equipped hotel" on the south coast!

[ORAC]

Let them go.

A brief moment in history, too large to move, not innovative enough to preserve, just like the Bristol Brabazon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Brabazon), and who remembers that now?

[treadigraph]

a radar on the roof of the Esplanade Hotel

Looks like it's gone... Must give the Ryde service a go again, last time I went over by hovercraft was about 1978.

Edit: I'd have preserved a SARO Princess too ORAC... it's only money...

[G-CPTN]

As a schoolboy, we went (camping) to the IOW (1956?).

Our trip included a boat tour around the Solent, and the Princesses were cocooned on the slipway - a magnificent sight!

[woodpecker]

As a schoolboy, we went (camping) to the IOW (1956?).

Our trip included a boat tour around the Solent, and the Princesses were cocooned on the slipway - a magnificent sight!

They were there in 1967, often observed climbing out of Hamble to the local flying area over the Isle of Wight.

[El Bunto]

The only reason this is now 'ugent' is because the Hovercraft Museum has sat on its hands for 11 years, enjoying the publicity of the SR.N4s but not actually taking steps to preserve them. All this hype about 'national treasures' sounds a bit hollow in that regard.

I am aware that they were privately-owned, but the Museum could at any point have made an offer for one or both instead of being content to use them as the centrepiece of their museum, available for tours etc... But easier and cheaper just to maintain the status quo despite the lack of long-term prospects. That's not a suitable policy for a museum. The problems of the land ownership have been known for at least five years.

So now we are being asked to stump-up from our tax revenue to cover for inaction in the past?

[JumboJet1999]

Saw one of the props moving around due to strong winds at Lee-on-Solent last week, looked as though it was coming 'back to life' haha- Didn't see this coming :( Would be a shame for both of them to go. . .

Signed the petition.

[BEagle]

It would be a shame to see the SRN4 scrapped. I only travelled across the Channel by hovercraft once, back in the early 1970s on the Ramsgate to Calais route in the pre-stretch Mk1 version. But in later years I used Hoverspeed's SeaCat service to Ostende (now sadly terminated) and would often watch the skill of the SRN4 captains as they manoeuvred their beasts at the adjacent hoverport.

A great pity that there aren't any ferries to Belgium from the South these days, the SeaCat route was perfect for trips to Germany rather than an extra hour through France.

[JamesBird]

Oh, just seen that 3wheels told me they're not aircraft, so the 'fast taxi, or get it in the air' problem they had in Vulcan land WRT RR engines need not worry anyone.
As a thought experiment, how would one move such a thing to e.g. Duxford? Even if it were seaworthy one could only get it to Ipswich? Could it ever be possible to move something 24m (24m!) wide across country - Answers on a postcard please.

[Pozidrive]

El Bunto - I think you're wrong to criticise the Museum. If it's like any similar museum it's probably run by a surprisingly small number of people with very little money to spend. Very difficult to find the time or resources for long term planning.

[yellowtriumph]

As a young boy brought up in Hampshire, I clearly remember seeing one of the hovercraft prototypes at the Beaulieu Motor museum. This was before the museum was subject to a massive revamp in the late 60/70's? It was at the far end of the museum by the go-kart track and was a pretty forlorn sight even then - it was clearly sat on some sort of structure underneath it.

It was light blue/grey in colour, with what appeared to be some sort of vertical 'chimney' in the middle of it, presumably it would have been where the single fan was mounted. As I say, this was a hovercraft prototype. It was just sort of sitting there, looking very neglected. I wonder it if just disintegrated in the end due to lack of care?

With regard to an earlier post about the Saunders Roe flying boats. We used to regularly travel over to the IOW from Southampton on the car ferry and I clearly remember the flying boats all cocooned up - two of them, in the water. Close by were five or six similarly cocooned motor torpedo boats. Anyway, when the flying boats were scrapped a chap up the road from us bought two of the underwing floats with the intention of turning them into a catamaran. I kid you not.

Over the succeeding years we used to pass by his house, and there behind his front garden brick wall slowly the two floats were somehow connected together and even a centre mast installed. Everyone in the neighbourhood wondered how on earth he was going to haul this 'craft' out of his garden and somehow get it in the sea. It never did, it lay there languishing from many, many years before disappearing. Of course I wish I had taken photo now. I have signed the petition as I think it's important to be able to show future future generations 'this is what we did'.

[India Four Two]

yellowtriumph,

That would have been the SR-N.1:
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.rcgroups.net%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2 F1%2F4%2F6%2F3%2F5%2F1%2Fa3623796-224-SRN1.jpg%3Fd%3D1290884970&f=1

http://www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk/register/625/srn-1

Now in storage with the Science Museum at Wroughton.

I saw it twice - once at Farnborough, where I think this photo was taken and once quite by chance, as my dad was driving by, on the beach in Dover Harbour after its famous Channel crossing. Since this was before it had skirts fitted, it must have been a VERY calm day!

[gruntie]

I took the car over a couple of times, and used the hovercraft: a combination of thrill factor and a ferry strike. I remember a constant jolting ride (the sea state appeared just average), and I couldn't see out as all the windows were immediately covered with a fog of spray. Far from the magic-carpet ride I was expecting.

As an aside, a friend once knew a rather large lady who fancied him somewhat: they were in a group sunbathing on a beach when she threw herself on top of him. He later described it, in his broad Scots accent, as ".....like a hovercraft settlin'.....". I was reminded of this, watching an incoming SRN4 slowly contact the ramp. It was rather apt.

[yellowtriumph]

IFT,

Thanks for looking up that photo. That certainly looks about right, the 'cabin' at the front does look like a milk float affair!

When I saw it at Beaulieu it had the skirt on it, but as I say it was looking very forlorn so I'm really glad to read that it is still around in one form or another.

[India Four Two]

I have just found this newsreel about the Channel crossing:

r85nR-Y8nTk

The first Channel crossing by Hovercraft coincided with the Bleriot celebrations. The Saunders Roe machine made the trip from Calais to Dover in a little over 2 hours. The Inventor and a colleague acted as human ballast to compensate for extra fuel. Saunders Roe Chief Test Pilot Peter Lamb gave a comment.

Is that the SS United States in the background at 0:10?

[Groundloop]

Definitely not the United States. Could be the FrenchLine's Liberte.

THE FRENCH LINE ? SS LIBERTE ? 1950s | Cruising The Past (http://cruiselinehistory.com/the-french-line-ss-liberte-1950s/)

[Wander00]

As a CCF RAF Section cadet I blagged my way onto an CCF RN section week's camp at Lee on Solent in I guess the late 50s. they took us for a flight in a Dominie (2 turning, not 2 burning) over the Solent, and there was the SR-N 1 , Cockerill's prototype

[BEagle]

yellowtriumph wrote: When I saw it at Beaulieu it had the skirt on it...

Are you sure that wasn't Lord Montagu....:ooh: ??

[Wander00]

Oo, you are awful...........

[India Four Two]

Groundloop,

Yes, I think you are right.

The ship in the film didn't look quite right for the SS United States, but I couldn't find any other liner with two large funnels like that.

[washoutt]

I think it is the ss America, later sold as cruise ship to a Greek shipowner

[ChrisJ800]

Wouldnt the military like to use these? Seems like they would make great landing craft. A lick of cam paint and some guns and armour and bingo. Yes did go in them a few times when a kid and great experience.

[ORAC]

Only if they intend to invade Holland......

[lawrence hole]

As far as I remember some of the Rolls Royce Proteus were taken from the SRN4 in order to be used as power plants for someone's power boat. So probably it would be impractical to try and move these craft to another location anyway even if they could be made seaworthy again. Considering that the Hovercraft Museum has the World's best collection of hovercraft of all types anyway, if there was no SRN4, the largest type built by BHC at Cowes, the Museum would be incomplete without at least one of these craft anyway. Please add your name to the petition to save one.
Petition can be found under the website for the Hovercraft Museum.

[happybiker]

3 Wheels The technical aspects of Hovercraft were regulated by the CAA.

HOVERCRAFT (APPLICATION OF ENACTMENTS) ORDER 1972 (Hansard, 15 May 1972) (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1972/may/15/hovercraft-application-of-enactments)

[gasax]

That regulation was very much what lead to the situation where these machines were too expensive to operate.

As anyone with experience of floatplanes or amphibians can attest aeronautical practices in a maritime environment is the kiss of death. A great shame as composite hovercraft such as the HM were also 'caught'.

[John Farley]

Please google USMC hovercraft. A few of you will learn something

[Haraka]

and to add to that try "AIST Hovercraft" to see what the other side came up with.........