All US layovers to 48 Hrs.?

[InnocentBystander]

Latest info from the galley radio is that TD supposedly announced at a recent cabin crew "forum" type gathering that TC has declared all US layovers are going to 48 Hrs, plus IST, ATH and CAI are becoming layovers. Reason supposedly is that TC is sick of all those fatigue reports as they are damaging the brand.

Any truth to this? Or is this another carrot dangling manoeuvre to keep cabin crew and pilots from resigning for another couple of months until this eventually turns out to be false?

I very much doubt that we have the crews to stem this enormous increase in needed crews, both on flight deck and CC...

Also very telling (if true) that TC is more concerned about the health of his "brand" than the health of his people. But then again, since MF retired no one in senior management cares about people anymore anyways. It's all about profit and brand value.

[aussiefarmer]

That's a rumour that has been going around for quite some time. I can't see it happening to be honest.

Not a huge fan of it, since most likely EK would start counting those days off in the US as part of your minimum days off a month. I personally rather spend them in Dubai. We're still gonna work 100 hrs a month with less time at home... Doesn't sound like we are gonna benefit in my opinion. Don't forget the fact that jetlag would obviously be worse on return...

[Capn Rex Havoc]

That question was raised at the recent Fleet Forum. JA said that 48hrs layovers was not on the cards, and that they use the FRMS recommendations for timings to reduce jet lag.

[nolimitholdem]

The FRMS "system" that looks at flights in isolation and completely disregards the longterm cumulative effects of fatigue.

A complete and utter joke/disgrace/farce.

Strangely, the vast majority of "investigations" triggered by fatigue reporting seem to result in FRMS concluding the flights in question are perfectly safe. How odd, right? It's like watching Vladimir Putin play hockey - you already have a pretty good idea of the outcome of the game.

When - not if - the day comes and EK has some major prang and fatigue is named as a contributing factor, I really don't know how they're going to explain away a very large number of reports for places like IAD/BOS/ORD etc. I'd love to see some EK management lackey keep a straight face while being interviewed by an FAA investigator, attempting to state that they had no idea fatigue was a problem, whilst receiving weekly fatigue reports and ASR's for years. I'm sure they'd try. Lying is, after all, second nature for the company culture. More likely the reports would simply have "disappeared".

Glad it's not my problem.

[helen-damnation]

the only way it will change is when the company is forced to do something by the overwhelming numbers of ASRs/fatigue reports.

If you believe the report is required, file it. If not, by definition, you believe it to be acceptable :ugh:

[Rather Be Skiing]

Maybe the rumour stems from the recent CARS amendment effective Jan 1.

AMC3 to 1.1120(d): for all operator conducting Long rangeoperations (LRO)

Operations Manual

The Operations Manual shouldcontain specific instructions to ensure that the flight meets the following requirements:

(a) LRO Pre-flight and In-flight Rest Planning
A scheme shouldbe established to provide guidance to the crew on the expected pre-flight preparations

and in-flight rest to be taken. Flight crew are to be appropriately rested for the LRO flight.

(b) LRO pre-flight Rostering Requirements:

Prior to operating a LRO flight or a LRO Standby departing UAE, all crew members shouldbe scheduled for 02 days off including 03 local nights of rest in base.

(c) LRO Flight Rest Period Away from Base

In the LRO Rostered Duty Assignment, the scheduled period free of flying duties away from base shouldbe at least 48 hours.

(d) Post LRO Rostered Duty Assignment Rest At Base Before embarking on the Next Flight:

All crewmembers should be scheduled for a minimum of 2 days off including 03 local nights of rest in base upon completion of a LRO pairing followed by any other duty or a LRO pairing.

(e) Each crew member shouldnot be rostered more than 02 LRO Pairings/calendar month.

(f) Cabin crew shouldbe provided with a minimum in flight rest period of (3 1/2) hours for any LRO flight.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Too bad that EK doesn't operate to CARs.

[lowstandard]

Key word is SHOULD.
$afety fir$t.

[Emma Royds]

Athens has to become a nightstop regardless as it is going to be tagged onto the existing Larnaca. Malta and Tunis will also be joined together.

[Rather Be Skiing]

Key word is SHOULD. $afety fir$t.

I saw that too. Far too many 'shoulds'!

EK is all about taking the mile when an inch is given!

[Twiglet1]

Wonder if EK will move towards EASA FTL? Plenty of "shall" when it comes to frms.
Current view of the sleepy folk at my gaff is two sleeps on Europe to USA transitions

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Inshallah Habibis, Inshallah.. Keep those ASRs coming.

SyB :zzz::zzz:

[givemewings]

Cabin crew shouldbe provided with a minimum in flight rest period of (3 1/2) hours for any LRO flight.
http://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah right. Good one

[nolimitholdem]

EK doesn't have the crews to make all US layovers 48hrs anyway.

Row HARDER, minions!

[NG_Kaptain]

Iran is opening up. Will they be poaching from the Middle East 3? Which may force our employers to improve T&C's.

[motley flight crue]

Yes, can't wait to move to Tehran

[Aluminium shuffler]

Aussiefarmer, I understand that concern, but I doubt the company could claim non-flying days downroute as days off as they are by definition duty days; you are in that location for that duration at the direction of the company. They can class them as rest days, but I don't think they can hope to legally call them "off".

[lospilotos]

Aussiefarmer, I understand that concern, but I doubt the company could claim non-flying days downroute as days off as they are by definition duty days; you are in that location for that duration at the direction of the company. They can class them as rest days, but I don't think they can hope to legally call them "off".

OM-A says off days should "preferably" be in DXB. That's why we can do long freighter pairings or the 418, since max duty days in a row is 7.

[fatbus]

where does the OMA say preferable ? thanks

[lospilotos]

Ok so the exact wording from OM-A 7.18.1 is: "Wherever possible, days off will be taken at home base"

[fatbus]

Thanks for that

[Aluminium shuffler]

I stand corrected. Well, that'll have to change if they really do want to be EASA compliant.

[PGA]

CAR OPS 4 Subpart Q has been updated once again. Every reference to long range operations, which was pretty beneficial for us, referred to in post #6 has been removed.

So under what GCAA provisions do we now operate our ULR flights?

[Deep and fast]

the only way it will change is when the company is forced to do something by the overwhelming numbers of ASRs/fatigue reports.

If you believe the report is required, file it. If not, by definition, you believe it to be acceptable :ugh:

Can't you send a copy of your ASR's airport specific to the airport manager or controlling authority as well for a belt and braces approach? Could make the office dwellers life a bit more difficult.

[harry the cod]

D&F

In a word, no. Sending a copy of an internal safety report to a third party without due justification or permission from the airline will land you in a whole heap of trouble. The only person who's life would become more difficult would be your own! If it's a mandatory Occurrence report, that will be for the airline to submit to the authority within the specified timeframe.

Harry

[Deep and fast]

Harry, I guess your right. But I suppose if everybody kept a copy and sent them after they left.......

Just a thought