SIA to launch CBR

[wheels_down]

First International route announced tommorow in Canberra, 4 weekly SIN-CBR-WLG. A330.

Where is Qantas Sydney Airways?? Too busy complaining about the competition...crying victim..

[timboeing707]

Thanks, was wondering what day this week it was being announced.

Looking forward to seeing the A330 at Wellington!!

LOL Qantas Sydney Airways, we have the same trouble with Air Auckland aka Air New Zealand virtually ignores Wellington, Christchurch!

I could be wrong but I know a ANZ 787-9 has never visited Wellington and possibly Christchurch!

Best Regards

Tim

[HotPete]

What is the reverse route?

[timboeing707]

Wellington - Canberra - Singapore

[600ft-lb]

I'm sure Qantas has a plethora of data detailing the number of pax who wish to travel this particular route, I'm sure if there was money to be made, QF or VA or AirNZ would've jumped on board.

Seems like more of a move of desperation by SQ who are so busy creating subsidiaries that are cannibalizing and competing with the mothership (sound familiar) that they don't know where else to put their aircraft.

I know we all give QF a hard time for the whole QF/JQ thing, how about SQ/Scoot/SilkAir/Tigerair ?

[mostlytossas]

Don't know if I agree with the Qantas would have jumped on board bit.
Take Adelaide as an example. In the last few years Singapore has increased its flights to mainly twice a day, Emirates have come in and Qatar about to in a few months (both daily) and still no Qantas International.

[600ft-lb]

Apples to oranges. SQ or any ME carrier flying from ADL to a hub then onward gives passengers plenty of options for onward connections. QF abandoned sin for dxb as we all know and are flying the remaining widebody airframes to end line destinations.

Singapore/Dubai/KL/etc aren't obviously attractive enough as a end line destination to offer to ADL that would come close with the competition frequency. Maybe if the 738 had the legs it would be deployed.

If it were your business would you throw your hat in the ring with dozens of carriers fighting over the scraps in the most competed for route in the world or would you just stick to monopolies and high yielding routes?

[mostlytossas]

If it was my business I would have jumped in long ago before these other carriers arrived and protected my market share. As it is now Cathay,Emirates,MAS, Singapore, and soon Qatar all fly out to the west and beyond mostly full, while ANZ gets plenty to the USA. Good old QF gets none. If they keep allowing the scraps as you put it to drain off to others eventually there will be no market left for them to worry about.That is why Coles and Woolies are always looking to take market share from small operators ie chemists, butchers etc. Cant say I agree with that either but that is another issue.

[dijical]

The route will be flown by 777-200s.

[Lookleft]

At least Canberra Airport can now justify the 777 guidance lines at the 17 end that were painted there many years ago. Its also not the first international route into CBR. Direct Fiji has been tried before as has direct WLG. Unless SIA are prepared to pay for Customs attendance then it will probably go the same way as the others.

[Ken Borough]

As it is now Cathay,Emirates,MAS, Singapore, and soon Qatar all fly out to the west and beyond mostly full, while ANZ gets plenty to the USA.

But....are they making money, or are they doing it in an attempt to weaken their competitors?

[parabellum]

SIA rarely do anything out of desperation, their commercial and marketing departments are among the best. Quite possibly an ulterior motive to starting this route, be interesting to see if it works.

[Metro man]

Unless SIA are prepared to pay for Customs attendance then it will probably go the same way as the others.

With all the politicians and civil servants spending taxpayers money rather than their own and all the business men on expense accounts I would think they would have a very lucrative market.

A one stop connection to the rest of the world on a premium airline which bypasses Sydney would be welcomed. Also Singapore - Wellington could be a useful connection for cities not served by ANZ.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

The route will be flown by 777-200s.

I don't reckon so - the product difference between the A330/-200/-300 and the 777-xxxER and A380s is massive - especially with the crowd they'll be trying to impress.

My pet SIA peeve is that you can, from week to week, get totally different in-flight products (lie flat beds with privacy vs crappy old 'traditional' business class seats) on the same route at the same price.

......I know...... first world problem...... but their high value CBR and WLG government types will not settle for the dross when they can pop over to Sydney and get the service they 'deserve'.

[PoppaJo]

Website confirms 772. A350 fleet is expected to replace 772 fleet starting March.

UnderneathTheRadar, think of those poor pax who had A380 downgraded over Summer on MEL-SIN on some days to a regional 772! Bit of a difference!

[neville_nobody]

Quite possibly an ulterior motive to starting this route, be interesting to see if it works.

Like getting access to the Pacific?

[juliet]

A 772 doing CBR-WLG? That's going to be amusing at the Wellington end.

[timboeing707]

"A 772 doing CBR-WLG? That's going to be amusing at the Wellington end."

I have seen ZK-OKQ Air New Zealand at Wellington, and many of the others in the Air New Zealand 773 fleet have visited at some point. If you search Wellington Airport Boeing 777 on youtube theres some vids of them there. My video of ZK-OKQ is here on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7Qseo_DRs

At the time of the second and more destructive Christchurch Earthquake in 2011 Air New Zealand used their Boeing 777-200 thru Wellington with no problems, and I guess they would not have done this unless the loading of passengers would be high (if any one has anymore info on these flight please contact me!)

And don't forget we used to have 747SPs and we have had two 707s visit Wellington.

I can't wait to see the Singapore Airlines Boeing 777-200s at Wellington!!!

Best Regards

Tim Gorman

[Lookleft]

Like getting access to the Pacific?

Supposedly thats what SIA were going to do with Tiger. The Trojan Horse that would get them access to the Pacific. Before that it was Ansett and AirNZ. When I see SIA have a successful airline that is not based in Singapore I will accept that:

SIA rarely do anything out of desperation, their commercial and marketing departments are among the best.

[BalusKaptan]

Also had a B747-200 in WLG for Norman Kirk's funeral. Airforce One.

[HotPete]

I was wondering if there were any worries out of CBR to SIN on a hot day.

[slamer.]

Cant wait to see the first landing in a good WLG Nor-wester.

Say about 320M/25kts G40kts.

A steady 60kts is a bit to easy.

[juliet]

"A 772 doing CBR-WLG? That's going to be amusing at the Wellington end."

I have seen ZK-OKQ Air New Zealand at Wellington, and many of the others in the Air New Zealand 773 fleet have visited at some point. If you search Wellington Airport Boeing 777 on youtube theres some vids of them there. My video of ZK-OKQ is here on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX7Qseo_DRs

At the time of the second and more destructive Christchurch Earthquake in 2011 Air New Zealand used their Boeing 777-200 thru Wellington with no problems, and I guess they would not have done this unless the loading of passengers would be high (if any one has anymore info on these flight please contact me!)

And don't forget we used to have 747SPs and we have had two 707s visit Wellington.

I can't wait to see the Singapore Airlines Boeing 777-200s at Wellington!!!

Best Regards

Tim Gorman

Well aware they've been there before. Like I say, going to be amusing.

[kiedistv]

To be honest, I think that Singapore Airlines probably wanted to do a direct service from Singapore to Wellington, but due to the size of the runway at Wellington, they decided to try Canberra knowing that the CEO of the airport has always loved the idea of international routes and he has showed expression of interest for the CBR to WLG route. I maybe wrong but this is my opinion on the scenario. Also, I don't think the route would last very long without VA and ANZ codesharing it. I wouldn't pick SIA - CBR as earning a profit. Then again, I maybe wrong

[Lookleft]

I was wondering if there were any worries out of CBR to SIN on a hot day.

I would imagine it would be quite easy for a 777 that's only 1/3 full (if that).:ok:

[DJ737]

I think SQ has done quite a lot of research on Canberra being a suitable destination by analysing postcodes of pax booking on them ex SYD and other similar demographics, not sure about the Canberra-Wellington sector, VA or NZ doing that with a 737/E190/A320 would be able to cope on that sector, unless SQ are going to fill the 777 belly with frozen sheep out of Wellington.

If SQ wanted somewhere to fly the plane for the day, Canberra-Hobart might have been a better tag leg, I'm sure the Tassie govt / Hobart airport would have welcomed them with open arms & a bit of cash.

[Lookleft]

If thats the case then SIA would need to offer the same fare as SYD-SIA as CBR people will drive to SYD if it saves them money or catch a Murray's coach to the Intl terminal. They might as well announce SIA-NTL if its just about postcodes.

I hope you are not serious with this statement:

If SQ wanted somewhere to fly the plane for the day, Canberra-Hobart might have been a better tag leg, I'm sure the Tassie govt / Hobart airport would have welcomed them with open arms & a bit of cash.

[LPS500]

Maybe Wellington had deeper pockets than Hobart?

Wellington ratepayers to pay $8m over 10 years for Canberra flights | The National Business Review (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/wellington-ratepayers-pay-8m-over-10-years-canberra-flights-b-183853)

[ozaub]

Meanwhile Jetstar too has begun offering international flights from Canberra; to Fiji, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand and USA. Yes, the flights really are on the Jetstar website. Albeit code share with Murray coaches from the Jolimont bus station!
There are going to be some very confused incoming pax.

[Ejector]

Looking for a start date on this as a pax.

[BuzzBox]

Ejector:

20 September 2016

'Capital Express' Service To Connect Singapore, Canberra And Wellington (http://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/en_UK/press_release_news/ne0316-160120.jsp)

[parabellum]

Lookleft - you obviously don't like SIA, for whatever reason, and it shows!

[Chris2303]

BTW SIA as an airport code is Xian. Singapore is SIN

[White Knight]

BTW Chris. SIA in the context of this thread is Singapore Airlines. Not the airport code! You will have seen that the OP stated SIN for Singapore Airport...

[Chris2303]

"If thats the case then SIA would need to offer the same fare as SYD-SIA as CBR people will drive to SYD if it saves them money or catch a Murray's coach to the Intl terminal. They might as well announce SIA-NTL if its just about postcodes."

This is what provoked my post - there are other examples

[slamer.]

Wonder if this has anything to do with lengthening the WLG rwy..??

[kiedistv]

Wonder if this has anything to do with lengthening the WLG rwy..??

Since they're only flying to Canberra from WLG I doubt it. But maybe they're trying to bring on a direct route to Wellington and are delaying by linking capital cities ;)

[Chris Leung]

Anyone knows if they (SIA)'re still holding the longest passenger flight time record? Thanks.

[topend3]

Reports that the service at the Wellington end is heavily incentivised by WCC and Infratil (the airport owners) so will be interesting to see how long this lasts...

[timboeing707]

"Also had a B747-200 in WLG for Norman Kirk's funeral. Airforce One."

BalusKaptain, are you sure you are right there?
Do you have a photograph?

Best Regards

[timboeing707]

"Reports that the service at the Wellington end is heavily incentivised by WCC and Infratil (the airport owners) so will be interesting to see how long this lasts..."

$9NZ$ per passenger and the deal is signed for 10 Years. The money comes out of a fund which is there to bring new business to Wellington, so no extra cost to rate payers.
Once the daily service starts the amount will be less anyway.
This amount is less than Jetstar is getting!


Best Regards

[Lookleft]

Parabellum- thanks for your rather pointless statement. Based on your statements you must have Singapore airline 777 posters all over your bedroom wall as you are so enamoured with them!

Just because I don't think there is a viable market to CBR and WLG doesn't make me a "hater" of SIA. I notice their return flight from CBR to SIA departs at 23:30 local. Good luck with the noise lobby on that one point alone. International flights have been tried before in CBR and they have failed because of the lack of permanent Customs facilities and the small market.

[27/09]

timboeing707: "Reports that the service at the Wellington end is heavily incentivised by WCC and Infratil (the airport owners) so will be interesting to see how long this lasts..."

$9NZ$ per passenger and the deal is signed for 10 Years. The money comes out of a fund which is there to bring new business to Wellington, so no extra cost to rate payers.
Once the daily service starts the amount will be less anyway.



Best Regards

The deal might be for 10 years but I'll bet all the tea in China (or anywhere else) that if it's not working for SIA they'll pull the pin.

This amount is less than Jetstar is getting!
Are you saying WIAL/Wellington CC are paying Jetstar an incentive?

[timboeing707]

Jetstar are getting an incentive to fly into Wellington, I don't have the exact figure, I could probably get it if I made an OIA ( Official Information Act) request, but it might be commercially sensitive so they want give it out.

Singapore Airlines have said they are committed to Wellington, as they have been with Christchurch and Auckland for 30 years.

Coming to Wellington is better than have the 777 sitting at Canberra doing nothing.

Best Regards

[Metro man]

Emirates fly their A380s onto Auckland from Australia and have a mini hub there, supposedly cheaper than parking them in Oz for the day.

[parabellum]

Lookleft - I worked for them for ten years and the posters are B747-400! ;)

[Lookleft]

Reminds me of that joke PB- How can you tell there is an ex-SIA 747-400 pilot at a party........? You know the rest.:O

[timboeing707]

"Emirates fly their A380s onto Auckland from Australia and have a mini hub there, supposedly cheaper than parking them in Oz for the day."

There was a rumor years ago before they had Emirates A380s and used 777s they would have liked to send one over to Wellington for the day, instead of parking it at Sydney, much cheaper.
They were going to do it with no passengers too.

Best Regards

[27/09]

timboeing707: Jetstar are getting an incentive to fly into Wellington, I don't have the exact figure, I could probably get it if I made an OIA ( Official Information Act) request, but it might be commercially sensitive so they want give it out.

So effectively you're saying Jetstar are getting a subsidy to compete with Air New Zealand? If that's the case I can't figure some of the airport companies out.

[timboeing707]

"27/09 So effectively you're saying Jetstar are getting a subsidy to compete with Air New Zealand? If that's the case I can't figure some of the airport companies out."

Yes!.
Just so you know to the Jetstar Regional services that are starting are subsidized by the towns local ratepayers eg Palmerston North, Nelson, Napier.
Jetstar basically held a bidding war between the councils in New Zealand to see who would stump up with the most $.
Most of the Regional centers had to bring Jetstar in or Air New Zealand were going to cut services to them, Air New Zealand were not going to give up if Jetstar moved in.

Best Regards

[27/09]

timboeing707: Just so you know to the Jetstar Regional services that are starting are subsidized by the towns local ratepayers eg Palmerston North, Nelson, Napier.
Jetstar basically held a bidding war between the councils in New Zealand to see who would stump up with the most $.
Most of the Regional centers had to bring Jetstar in or Air New Zealand were going to cut services to them, Air New Zealand were not going to give up if Jetstar moved in.

That's bizarre!!!!!

Councils and airports keep putting up their airport fees and make it harder for the incumbent to operate at a price the public are prepared to pay, yet they'll bend over backwards to subsidise a new entrant competitor. Really weird thinking. If the market was there the competitor wouldn't need any help.

I think you'll find the regional places Jetstar are going to were never in danger of having services cut.

[Taildragger67]

That's bizarre!!!!!

Councils and airports keep putting up their airport fees and make it harder for the incumbent to operate at a price the public are prepared to pay, yet they'll bend over backwards to subsidise a new entrant competitor. Really weird thinking. If the market was there the competitor wouldn't need any help.

I think you'll find the regional places Jetstar are going to were never in danger of having services cut.

It's worked out pretty well for Ryanair for years now! (Europe rather than NZ but similar model.)

[timboeing707]

"I think you'll find the regional places Jetstar are going to were never in danger of having services cut."

Yes, Air New Zealand was going to cut services to Palmerston North, now Jetstar is going there they are buying new aircraft and doubling services.

I am not sure if you remember the Kiwi Airlines V Air New Zealand War, Air New Zealand beat Kiwi Air into the dirt, and now they have nothing to do with "no frills travel" eg Freedom air, and Hamilton has no International flights.

Air New Zealand Lives for competition, if there is competition they kill it, if there is no competition have a monopoly and price gouge.
Hopefully with Jetstar coming into the regional market in NZ and possibly Qantas this will rattle ANZ.

Best Regards

[Water Wings]

Yes, Air New Zealand was going to cut services to Palmerston North, now Jetstar is going there they are buying new aircraft and doubling services.
Ummm......Palmy was never in any danger of losing services from Auckland and Christchurch, the opposite has been the case for a longtime with increasing frequencies and upgauging over the past few years. Routes to Wellington and Hamilton are a different story and time will tell if (once the Beech has gone) the market adapts to the new timetable.

[timboeing707]

Waterwings for your benefit.

Before Jetstar Regional

Air NZ announces regional network cuts | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/63089348/air-nz-announces-regional-network-cuts.html)

After Jetstar Regional

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/73712939/Air-New-Zealand-buys-15-new-planes-for-regional-routes

Point taken with the B1900s, they were horrible anyway! No match for the Saab 340

Best Regards

[27/09]

timboeing707: I am not sure if you remember the Kiwi Airlines V Air New Zealand War, Air New Zealand beat Kiwi Air into the dirt, and now they have nothing to do with "no frills travel" eg Freedom air, and Hamilton has no International flights.

Very aware of Kiwi and its demise. While some of the "blame" can be laid at Air New Zealand's door Kiwi didn't help itself either.

Actually Air New Zealand still does no frills travel. When you book you have a choice of various seat options from seat only (no frills option) right through to all the bells and whistles.

Hamilton doesn't have international flights not because of anything Air New Zealand did to Kiwi but because of Hamilton's proximity to Auckland with more options time and destination wise.

Virgin tried operating internationally out of Hamilton for a while, assisted by a council/airport authority "subsidy" but when the subsidy ran out the flights stopped.

Air New Zealand tried it out of Rotorua but couldn't make it work even with financial support from the Rotorua ratepayers.

As I said earlier if the service needs financial support from the local council to be viable then it's not likely to ever to stand on its own two legs.

I'll also repeat what I said earlier Councils and airports keep putting up their airport fees and make it harder for the incumbent to operate at a price the public are prepared to pay, yet they'll bend over backwards to subsidise a new entrant competitor. Really weird thinking. If the market was there the competitor wouldn't need any help. It doesn't make sense to me. There must be some good spin doctors at JQ

[27/09]

timboeing707: Waterwings for your benefit.

Before Jetstar Regional

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/63089348/air-nz-announces-regional-network-cuts.html

After Jetstar Regional

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...egional-routes


The first article you reference actually talks about increases to many destinations including those where Jetstar are going to;

Stuff 11.11.14: Other towns experiencing increased demand, including Kerikeri, Whangarei, Tauranga, Hamilton, Rotorua, Gisborne, Taupo, Wanganui, Palmerston North, Blenheim, Hokitika and Timaru, were the winners of today's restructuring.

None of the towns that had services cut have had the benefit of a Jetstar service. I wonder why.

So far as the second article goes, do you seriously believe the ATR purchase announced in Nov 2015 happened as a reaction to Jetstar. These sorts of decisions are not made over night

[XPT]

AFAIK the only international flights in/out of CBR before except charters, was FJ CBR/NAN twice a week with little notice. CBR/NAN could work esp with connections to LAX & SFO.


No stupid curfew at CBR whatsoever. You can land takeoff anytime of day.


Why was billions paid in Sydney Noise Tax ? Where did all that money go ?

[XPT]

the so called brains trust at QF is on permanent holiday, otherwise QF would have done SIN/CBR/WLG before SQ.


Good on you SQ. Hope it works well.


Looking at other options for WLG flyers to Europe .........


all 3 flights minimum.


& who wants to change terminals at awful AKL (as bad as dodgy SYD)