How do I get an ATPL/IR?

[Tarmach]

How do I get an ATPL/IR?

I already have a CAA PPL, although I'm a little confused on where the ATPL ground exams fit in and the IR etc.

Where is the best and cheapest school to do this at? I know that this is a matter of choice mainly.

Also, what kind of route would you take, would you do a modular course??

Many thanks,

Tarmach.

[WX Man]

Seems to me like your best (only?) option is to do the modular course:

1. ATPL groundschool course + exams
2. Simultaneously build TT to 150
3. Do CPL modular course
4. Do IR modular course

If I wanted to keep the cost of the ATPL groundschool down, I'd do a correspondance course. Also you can do your hour building abroad - do a deal with a school in South Africa/ USA/ Oz/ NZ where you can pay for 100h or so in a block. Or you might want to do that in the UK.

The CPL course may be done abroad- there are two schools in Florida who are approved to do this (see http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_approvedftos.pdf ). You may be able to keep some of your costs down by doing the CPL course there.

The IR course needs to be done in the UK, and the same link lists all the places where you can train for the JAR IR.

[Tarmach]

Hi, ive got a number of questions to ask:

So how much of the 150 TT has to be P1 time?

can I do the ATPL exams before the actual TT has been built to 150hrs??

Is the modular course my only option- even though I only have a PPL??

Where can i find out about correspondance courses?

[foghorn]

Tarmach, I'll take your questions in order

1) 100 hours must be P1, 5 hours of TT must be at night (i.e. get a night rating and you've got the 5 hours night!)

2) Yes, most schools require just a PPL and a class one medical

3) No, you can go on an integrated course, but you will re-learn flying from scratch so it may be a waste of money

4) Try the adverts in Pilot Magazine and Flyer Magazine - Bristol, Four Forces, Coventry and PPSC are some of the well-known distance learning schools. Do a search on 'distance learning' in here as well - there's been lots written about it. A lot of pprune wannabes are going the distance learning route. It's not easy I can tell you (nearly finished my course with Four Forces).

I also need to correct WXMan slightly - what he has said will give you a frozen ATPL/IR - which means a CPL/IR with passes in the ATPL theory exams. This is the airline first officer qualification. You can also fly single-pilot types professional with this qualification.

The full ATPL/IR, needed for airline command, requires 1500 hours TT (inc. 500 multi crew, 100 night) and a skills test on the type you are flying.

[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 01 March 2001).]

[Tarmach]

Thanks for your answers foghorn and WX Man.

Just a few more questions.

I got told at a seminar that the airlines prefer the ab initio intergrated course as oppose to the modular route.

Why is this so? The only real difference I can see is the length of time to complete the respective courses- with the intergrated route being more intense - I suppose- only in time allocation.

Would doing a modular course decrease my chances of getting 'that airline job'?

Furthermore the distance learning courses seem to be a good idea- how much cheaper are these compared to the normal residential courses??

Would it matter to an employer that you have learnt the material namely the ATPL by distance learning as oppose to being taught it in a classroom?

Thanks

Tarmach.

[foghorn]

Airlines seem to think that integrated course pilots are better than modular course pilots. This is unusual because we all have to pass the same exams and skills tests, and the big integrated schools also offer modular courses! There must be some reason for it, though.

From what I've seen and heard, if you are low hours, being from an integrated course increases your chances of getting hired. Once you're through that magic 1,000 hours barrier, though, it doesn't seem to matter.

Distance-learning courses are on average £1,000 cheaper than fully-residential courses. All schools seem to split the exams into two halves. Distance learning courses usually are 3-5 months home study with 2-3 weeks full-time classroom study then the exams for each 'half'. Fully-residential seems to be 10 weeks full-time classroom study followed by the exams for each 'half'.

I don't think employers will really care about which groundschool you took - they will be more interested to see that you passed all the exams first time (not easy with the JARs...)

[Tarmach]

Thanks for your reply foghorn.

Yes i agree with you, everyone has to do the same exams and pass the same courses. Although I've heard of many guys aged 17 who get their PPL and then within a space of a few years are in a RH seat in a wide-body jet- I would therefore imagine it would make sense for them to go the modular route too!

I didn't know that on your ATPL it is stamped with how many attempts you made at passing the exams?!

[WX Man]

... neither did I... but hopefully I won't have to worry about that! (I hope to emmigrate soon).

Thank you for pointing out my omission, Foghorn. The integrated/ modular debate is one that generates reams of responses and not one that I wish to enter in to! I personally think that you should choose whichever route you feel suits you best. At the end of the day the CPL/IR that you are issued conforms to a set of minimum specifications. The specifications are essentially the same for people doing the modular or the integrated courses.

(OK, I know there are minor differences in the total times required for issue, but what's 15h between friends?)

[foghorn]

Tarmach, WXMan,

As far as I'm aware your licence isn't stamped with the number of attempts, but it's a classic CV point / interview question.

[DeltaTango]

I keep reading that wannabees should get 150TT - why?
Which requirement does that fullfill in the UK?

DT

[foghorn]

You need 100 hrs P1 and 200 hrs TT for CPL issue.

The CPL course is 25 hours therefore you effectively need 175 hours TT before your CPL course.

If you do the CPL and IR together, you can apply for both licences after completing the IR. These two courses take 80 hours and it means that in theory you could have 140 hours or even less TT before starting the CPL, assuming you completed your PPL quickly. Some schools might not like this lack of experience though.

45 hrs PPL including 10 hours P1

90 hours P1 hour building = 135 hours TT

5 hours night rating = 140 hours TT

25 hours CPL + 55 hours IR = 220 hours TT

Result, CPL/IR, 220 hours TT, 100 hours P1

All the above refers to the modular route of course. The course lengths are the absolute legal minimum required.

Don't know where 150 hours comes from. The only 150 hour requirement I know of is that PPL's who wish to be instructors (ie. not being paid) need 150 hours P1 to start an instructors rating.

[This message has been edited by foghorn (edited 06 March 2001).]

[TooHotToFly]

You need 150 hours TT before you can start the CPL course.