EASA shopping around

[sapperkenno]

So... Bit of a thought experiment, and I don't see why it hasn't been posted yet, as a "how to" or "here's what I went and did" thread. -I've not found anything to date. Maybe they've all been pulled by mods!
Anyway...

We have all these EASA states to choose where we train, so what for example, would be the cheapest way of going about getting an EASA CPL/MEIR with ATPL theory passes? Just assuming someone has built their hours post-PPL and just needs ATPL theory, CPL/MEIR. How could this be done?

Eg, ATPL theory with CATS, sit exams in Poland at €8/paper, ME in Hungary, CPL somewhere else... What "could" be the absolute cheapest way of ticking all the boxes, and still finish up with a UK CAA issued EASA licence?

Any ideas?

[ersa]

There is no magic formula ....I would recommend using a UK ground school and sitting the UK exams , Once you have your exam credits , go were you like for training...

I have friends who tried to "Do it on the Cheap", it cost them more in the long run on retakes.....

Don't attempt to do anything in aviation on the cheap , all that will happen is you will end up with cheap training and it will show......

[172510]

What is important to me is the level of service, not really the fee.
For Instance the UK CAA has a rather poor level of service according to my experience (they made a mistake at my expense each of the three last time I had to deal with them, the online service is incredibly archaïc)
In France, you have an on line access to your entire dossier, they answer reasonably quickly etc.


On the other hand, France likes demanding thing ultra vires. They refuse ELP's issued abroad, they demand that you train for GNSS approaches at an ATO otherwise they say you're not allowed to fly one, and maybe other things.
I would be interesting to get a review that would compare things in details.

[MattC123]

Hi,

I have noticed Keilir Aviation Academy does an integrated pilot training program for 63,000 euro.

Their website states "Keilir teach in accordance with the EASA Part-FCL requirements and have approved teaching status from the Icelandic Civil Aviation Administration; furthermore, the course syllabus follows that given out by EASA in accordance with pan-European issuing directives for pilot licenses."

Does this mean that license issued upon completion of the course at Keilir is not recognised and accepted by UK airlines? I'm a bit confused by adherence to EASA requirements and also individual country approval.

Any help would be appreciated!

[ersa]

Iceland is a member of EASA, any licence issued by them will be Part-FCL.

[Reverserbucket]

I suppose the question is do you want to get a job with your UK CAA issued Part-FCL licence and where would you seek employment, or do you just want a licence?

[sapperkenno]

... do you want to get a job with your UK CAA issued Part-FCL licence and where would you seek employment, or do you just want a licence?

Is that some misconceived idea that having done it all in the UK puts you in a better position? Or a non-UK EASA licence isn't any good? I don't follow, unless I've got the wrong end of the stick.

[paco]

It's not necessarily the schools but the quality and oversight of the Authority. Despite their faults, the UK CAA is one of the better ones. Ireland would also be a good choice.

Phil

[Reverserbucket]

Quality of training is not the point I was making - there are plenty of good quality ATO's across the EU (indeed, you could argue that as far as integrated and a proportion of modular students who train at the large UK schools are concerned, the majority of their practical experience is in fact gleaned from U.S. instructors where there may be fundamental differences in training style and methodology), but rather that potential employers take an interest in where your training is conducted from the point of view of your training background. A clear, traceable training history through recognised providers shouldn't be understated and although this may be of less importance to atypical employers these days, it is still taken into consideration by many operators in the U.K. who have the benefit of a large selection of qualified candidates to choose from who are unlikely to have trained at more than one ATO from start to finish. Records are easily accessible and recommendations from instructors and training managers only a phone call away.

Reputation is also an important consideration - as a hypothetical exercise I think this is quite interesting but as ersa points out, choosing a school based on price alone could cost more when things don't quite work out as planned and additional training is required before skill-test.

[ersa]

Looks like they have a good reputation and looks like quality training...:D

[Reverserbucket]

"Bartolini Air currently has three EASA approved examiners available for practical testing for the Commercial Pilot License (CPL) and Multi Engine Instrument Rating (ME/IR). The test can be completed under any EASA authority as long as the students holds a medical class 1 issued by the relevant state. Currently the test can be completed under the following authorities, the license will then be issued directly by that EASA member state:"

Which of the eleven listed EASA NAA's are the three stated examiners approved by? I know of few FE CPL's that are authorised by more than one EU NAA (they do exist though).

The media page shows three video clips which to a potential student probably look enticing, but are revealing from the perspective of a professional student looking for quality training: the use of recording equipment either mounted during a solo flight or handheld by an instructor during a training exercise; the storage of a chart and what appears to be a mobile phone between the coaming and windshield on the P1 side of the cockpit, and the lack of centreline discipline in both the dual and solo segments are probably what leads me to be described as 'old fashioned'.

Theoretical knowledge training provided in cooperation with BGS suggests a reputable organisation to me but caution should be exercised where any connection is implied between training quality and a former student successfully gaining employment with an airline. This is true of all schools.

Good Luck.

[paco]

Recording equipment? Why not? It can be an extremely useful tool for refreshing the day's activities - so much so that an instructor I know in Canada gets his students through the CPL(H) check ride in 80 hours, as opposed to the 100 required to obtain the licence.

phil

[Reverserbucket]

I don't disagree that recording a sortie can have it's benefits and when used properly can indeed be an effective debriefing tool and indeed, approved cameras and recording software are available for even the smallest cockpits. I don't feel that an instructor filming with the device in his hand or a student's field of view being impaired by a 'dash' mounted camera is prudent. I've seen too many solo consolidation exercises and even first solo's used as social media opportunities with GoPro's in one hand or somehow supported in the cockpit, to know that they are an unnecessary distraction. Maybe that's why they call me 'old fashioned'?

[172510]

I know of few FE CPL's that are authorised by more than one EU NAA (they do exist though).
I suppose you refer to the previous process of Examiner briefing, which required an examiner of one state to receive a briefing before testing a student of another state.
This requirement does not exist anymore. Any examiner may check, test or assess (EASA jargon) any student. There is an EASA examiner difference document which is kept up to date on the EASA website that explains the process.
The EASA website has always been a mess and will probably be a mess forever, so I cannot find a permanent link to an up to date document, I believe the latest is https://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/Examiner%20Differences%20Document_version_06_2015.pdf