ASIC checks coming to an airport near you

[YPJT]

The security regulator (no not CASA) has sent out a letter to industry advising that AFP and or Transport Security Inspectors will be conducting ASIC checks and display compliance at airports in the near future.
I guess they have listened to those who complained about what a waste of time cards were, how no one ever checks them and nothing would happen if you got caught.
If you complain long and hard enough the government will give you what you ask for.

[Compylot]

I've just had my ASIC tattooed straight onto my left bicep.

My mate Snake Eyes did a great job, coloured and all you can hardly tell it's a facsimile!

If you are concerned about not having your ASIC appropriately displayed when airside, if it keeps you up at night, I am more than happy to put you in touch with Snake Eyes so he can imprint your card to skin too!

(And the ladies love it ;) )

[YPJT]

Compylot
:D:D:ok:

[Kiwiconehead]

I've just had my ASIC tattooed straight onto my left bicep.


Bit of a bastard at renewal time though ;)

[thorn bird]

Saw a guy wearing a sweat band around his head with his ASIC glued to it in the middle of his forehead.

[DutyofCare]

Ole m8 Jones never did get his initial ASIC renewed > instead, the legend cut out the front of a Marlboro pkt & probably has still got the same thing on display :ok:

As one could expect > he drinks the money he saves on that piece of SH*T :D

[Duck Pilot]

If you are airside without a current ASIC and you are required to have one, be very careful as you probably will get fined heavily..........

[drpixie]

as you probably will get fined heavily.........

Or not, I reckon most pprune posters wander around airside without their expensive ASIC correctly displayed, and I don't know anyone who's been called on it. (Mind you, I don't wander around SY, BN, or ML much.)

My best ASIC adventure (really truely):
I turned up at major northern airport to collect an aircraft and called the ground guys to get through the gate.
"Have you got an ASIC?"
"Yes I do"
"Oh good, I can do my random ASIC check for today."
(The ground guys at that airport have always been very helpful, and obviously didn't want to cause anyone any fuss.)

[Duck Pilot]

just putting it out there!

Maybe I am just dumb and stupid 😩😩😩

[wondrousbitofrough]

just putting it out there!

Maybe I am just dumb and stupid 😩😩😩

Don't be so hard on your good self. I'm sure you know the difference between wondering and wandering:ugh:

[YPJT]

Just putting the word out from what I know. Treat the advice as you see fit.

[Runaway Gun]

At a regional QLD airport a local worker approached me and asked for my ASIC, which I retrieved from my wallet. He didn't bother looking at it, but instead he insisted that if he saw it dangling around my neck at a distance, then he wouldn't then be bothered to check it.
"So any bit of red card on a lanyard would suffice?", I asked.
He simply looked at me confused and walked away.

[YPJT]

If you are checked, I can pretty well guarantee that the AFP / OTS inspectors will be a lot more thorough.

[holdingagain]

$180 if you are not wearing it when you should be
Regional staff recently / reminded to police it
We were cautioned two days ago ( we had our badges on )

[compressor stall]

FIVE times that amount according to my reading of the regs...

[mostlytossas]

I find this all a bit stupid really the whole ASIC thing. Take Parafield for example.Anyone who has a need for a gate swipe card ie owners,LAMEs,pilots in a club or syndicate,Instructors etc only have to apply to the airport owner to get one. Once they have this they can come and go as they desire, as they should be able to. So why should big brother check on them wearing an ASIC? If after all they can let themselves in the gate to go airside they must therefore have a legal right and be approved to do so in the first place.

[73to91]

mostlytossas, that's pretty similar to MSIC's - at a particular port operator in Sydney, you can go through the security gate but require an MSIC to go onto the wharf. What's on the wharf which perhaps equates to being airside? a line stating maritime zone.

However once past the security gate either by swipe or signing on, it's not like security follow you around.

Another form of government Id does the trick but the gov makes more revenue but adding another layer, smart and efficient nation.

[IsDon]

Reminds me of a time in a previous life on deployment with 11 SQN to Townsville.

I had left something in the aeroplane and went to retrieve it. On the way out I was startled to see a service copper, with the biggest German Shepherd I had ever seen straining at the leash. Barking and gnashing of teeth.

I pulled my ID out of my wallet, assessed the situation, and showed the ID to the dog.

With my previous dealings with service police I'm sure the dog had the greater IQ.

[Compylot]

Story time!

I love Story Time!

Anyway. This one day I was at this airport, you know swanning around as one does, when this airport 'official' accosted me on the tarmac.

He pointed to my chest and mumbled something.

I looked at him in surprise and said "Excuse me my Dear Chap, I don't quite understand your language. As an educated fellow I am used to effective and concise communication, in fact it is a cornerstone of my profession, so if you would like to try again please use plain English!"

Once again he thrust his dirty thick finger in my direction but this time through his ramblings I caught the word "ASIC".

Rolling my eyes I proceeded once again to lecture him on the proper use of grammar and that 'Yes indeed, I was a professional crew member lawfully permitted to access the sterile area of a Federally controlled airport'.. when I happened to glance down.

Low and behold!

Silly me, my ASIC had actually flipped on the lanyard and was facing inwards so the red side was not showing! So while he could see the large AIRBUS lettering he couldn't see my identification!

"My dear chap!" I exclaimed!

Apologizing profusely I flicked my ASIC card around and to his delight he could see that it was in fact an original, he turned on his heels and was on his way.

I skipped off myself, delighting in the marvelous conditions and looking forward to the aviation ahead, singing to myself and feeling very lucky to be alive!

[Pinky the pilot]

Pedant mode On

It's Lo and behold!

pedant mode Off

Ptp slinks off, muttering to himself that he really doesn't know why he bothers.....:rolleyes:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Time for a 'Red' Pinky......

Keep Smilin'.... :ok:

p.s. Mr C....http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/lo-and-behold.html

Cheers

[fujii]

ASIC two years. Passport ten years. Why? Similar paperwork for each.

[gerry111]

As it's 'Story time'..


IsDon, The guy you were accosted by at TVL perhaps would have been one of the dog handlers? (AKA 'Doggies'.) They were invariably good guys who adored their working dogs. They secured the tarmac areas at night.


The RAAF Police, on the other hand, were a class of their own during my 12 years in the RAAF. Their mission appeared (to me) to be look out for parking infringements. And to have cars banned off base. I have unpleasant memories of them.

[Ovation]

Ther's been a few rants about ASIC and what a waste of time and money it is, including the thread by Sunfish in 2008. It seems nothing's changed.

CASA - You Can Stick Your Online ASIC Application Up Your *** (http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/314612-casa-you-can-stick-your-online-asic-application-up-your.html)


I just renewed my ASIC and supplied a recent passport sized photo, but my mistake was to use the same image I'd supplied for the 2013 renewal. Needless to say, it was noticed and the application held over, with the request to supply a more recent one.

The stupidity is, the primary proof of identity was my driver's licence which was issued in 2009, and a passport using the image that was rejected.

Some of the other things that really annoys me are having to repeat information I've given them since I first got one in 2003, because they don't have the intelligence to split ASIC into an "Initial" issue and a "Renewal" issue, and then there's that really dumb question - "why do you want an ASIC"?

If I didn't want one, I wouldn't be wasting time and money applying for one. I really don't want one but the rules say I need one to access security controlled airports. This whole ASIC thing is a bad joke.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

RE "The stupidity is, the primary proof of identity was my driver's licence which was issued in 2009, and a passport using the image that was rejected."

Thanks Mr 'O',

But, I have found that in 'The Real World', MY Australian Passport - (VALID FOR 10 YEARS - Latest One 2015 to 2025) - will actually get ME into LOTS and LOTS of countries, including Russia, but my 'Australian ASIC' will not even get me a cup of coffee and a 'burger' at 'staff rates' anywhere..!!!

So, why should I not simply be able to produce my 'Australian Passport' at these particular airports requiring a "Secure ID"..??????

It has the same details in it / on it....n'est ce pas'...???? And...WHAT IS "MORE SECURE"..????

CASA / AFP...Feel free to comment.....

NO Cheers.....NOPE.....NONE at ALL!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Redpanda]

A shooters licence.

[LeadSled]

but my 'Australian ASIC' will not even get me a cup of coffee and a 'burger' at 'staff rates'

Griffo,
That's a shame, most capital city primary airports I frequent (as a pax. these days) the staff discount with the ASIC is around 40-50%. Doesn't quite cover the renewal fee, but does make a dent.
Tootle pip!!

[Compylot]

My GOD "ex FSO GRIFFO!"

IT is incredible that YOUR passport, valid no less than for TEN whole years gets you into LOTS and LOTS of countries, including RUSSIA!!!!!!

I am NOT sure what else to say, except that maybe I should end this sentence with lots of question marks???????

IS anyone LISTENING????

Time for a RED methinks.

WHOOPS, forgot the emoticons!

:) :) :)

[dubbleyew eight]

one for my returning your expired ASIC card,

the ASIC is a secure document so you don't just cut it up.
I have yet to see the stupidity that is CAsA actually publish a return address.
where do you return it to?

[Stanwell]

Oh! Thanks once again to that paragon of semi-literate wit.
(Hope mummy didn't catch you near the computer again.) :=

[YPJT]

Dubbleyew eight,
The ASIC is required to be returned to the body that issued it. An address is usually printed on the back of the card.

[peuce]

Once again, Australian pilots are showing how hard they are to please.

On one thread they are complaining about ASIC checks airside and on another thread they are complaining about the lack of security checks for people going airside.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

No wonder the Authorities are confused.

[Pinky the pilot]

IS anyone LISTENING????

To you? No.

I am NOT sure what else to say,

Try saying nothing.

[mppgf]

Pickle me Grandmother ! 40%
Leadsled, where can I get that. The best I seem to get is 10% or "No discount, but we do have a loyalty card". :{

[Compylot]

OK so let me spell it out.

We have a bunch of white, entitled, OLD baby boomers who have existed through arguably the greatest period of human advancement in history, both financially and technically, swinging their d!cks around in an esoteric circle jerk on an anonymous internet forum, crying into their 'reds' at having to have a red card bouncing around on their fat guts whenever they enter an airport security zone.

My heart bleeds.

You are exactly the type of middle aged misogynist blokes who huff and puff, rolling their eyes about being briefed in an emergency exit row or being asked to turn your phone to flight mode by young female flight attendants.

The next thing you know you'll all be complaining about going through security and being explosive tested or not being given priority for an emergency exit row...

Anyway, love the stories form 30 years ago, totally relevant to today's operations. It must feel especially good recounting the heroic aspects of talking down to and catching out crew members for their lack of knowledge.

As Peuce said

Once again, Australian pilots are showing how hard they are to please.

On one thread they are complaining about ASIC checks airside and on another thread they are complaining about the lack of security checks for people going airside.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

No wonder the Authorities are confused.

Yes indeed.

I think we shall leave these gentlemen to continue their discussion, I'm going to pretend to be cultured by signing off and saying I'm about to partake in a red! (In reality I'm going to snap the top off another cold beer)

Bottoms up :ok:

[Capt Fathom]

Bottoms up :ok:
We live in hope....!

[Compylot]

We live in hope....!

Oh STOP it, you're making me blush!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Gee Mr 'C'......You're not coming back...are you...??

And, just for the record, my real objection is to the process of the bloody stoopid idiotic 'red card', the fact that it costs $180 to say nothing, and is valid for such a short period of time....and going thru the whole marigmarole again, rather than a 'simple renewal'......

Like, if I wasn't a terrorist last year, like, nor for the last 50 or so whilst aviating, like, then why oh why would I be one now.......Like...

And lastly...Re;
OLD baby boomers who have existed through arguably the greatest period of human advancement in history, both financially and technically, swinging their d!cks around in an esoteric circle jerk on an anonymous internet forum, crying into their 'reds' at having to have a red card bouncing around on their fat guts whenever they enter an airport security zone.

Your description is 110% CORRECT!!!! Except for the 'dick swinging'....can't do that no more....Boo Hoo....

No Cheers....Nope....NONE AT ALL!!!!:=:=:yuk::yuk::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[YPJT]

And, just for the record, my real objection is to the process of the bloody stoopid idiotic 'red card', the fact that it costs $180 to say nothing.
If you are getting yours for $180 you are doing well. I don't know of anyone doing them for under $200
Cost of the background check just over $90 plus postage, time to process etc. Contrary to what the emotive rants here try to have you believe, no one is making a fortune out of processing these bloody things.
Capital outlay for the equipment to print the cards alone is in the vicinity of $50k. You have to churn out a lot of plastic to recoup that.

[Stanwell]

To our itinerant onanist...
I'm afraid that, yet again, you've spilt your seed on stony ground. :bored:

[Ovation]

YPJT wrote:
Capital outlay for the equipment to print the cards alone is in the vicinity of $50k.

I'm glad you're not managing my business - you're not a public servant in Canberra by any chance? I can buy a holographic ID card printer for less than $5K.

Compylot wrote:

I think we shall leave these gentlemen to continue their discussion,

Pleased about that - you've added nothing so far other than insulting those who don't fit in to your particular view of the world. If you manage to grow old and up like some of us here you'll hopefully understand, but it might be a long wait.

[Pinky the pilot]

crying into their 'reds' at having to have a red card bouncing around on their fat guts whenever they enter an airport security zone.


Oi Griffo; Point of Order: I never cry into my Red, and I don't have a fat guts!!:=:D

Don't do any dick swinging either.:{

Ovation; :ok:

[currawong]

I live for the day someone tries to check mine.

If they are not clearly identified as someone entitled to, I may just have to bag me someone acting suspiciously airside...

[YPJT]

I'm glad you're not managing my business - you're not a public servant in Canberra by any chance? I can buy a
No doubt you can buy cheaper equipment but the point is there is only one supplier of the machine that prints the specified security foil (Kinegram). Last time I checked cost was well over $35k. A hologram machine may well provide equivalent tamper evident security but the physical aspects of the ASIC are specified in the regs which are not easily changed.
I know I am probably coming accross as a govt employee or rampant supporter of all aspects of Avsec. I am not but like many others here, I know full well the system is in dire need of a makeover. That though won't be achieved through spleen venting on PPRUNE.

Peuce in his post above summed up this discussion pretty well

[Compylot]

To our itinerant onanist...
I'm afraid that, yet again, you've spilt your seed on stony ground. :bored: Get your own material Stanwell!

I googled w!nker way back in 2014!

http://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 12th Jan 2014, 09:56 #16 (permalink (http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/531674-c208-crash-hawaii.html#post8259731)) Compylot (http://www.pprune.org/members/311522-compylot)

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sky Heaven
Age: 25
Posts: 158

Quote:
Umm, just watched it the once

There was a fatality in this ditching, fortunately the rest got out ok

I can see this video as a valuable training aid

Was anybody wearing a life jacket prior to splash down
Didn't hear a brace call, maybe there was, the pax in clear view certainly was not in a brace position

and so on.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Umm, very interesting to read your astutely onanistic and extraneous critique of the pilot in said video.

You must of been mumbling and cursing the whole way through.

and so on.


Long before you applied for the cadetship :ok:

[The Green Goblin]

I bet you're all stoked about the 'trial' of $180 spot fines *revenue raising* *cough* for incorrectly displayed ASICs.

Problem is, not many people understand when you are actually required to display them. Certainly not in the terminal coffee shop.

I've had everybody from customs, to rent a cops in terminals asking me to display it. The whole ASIC thing is a noose around your neck. Literally.

Australia is that tied down by red tape you need more red tape to hold it all together.

[framer]

When do you have to display it?
What document should I read to find out exactly what the requirement is?
Cheers

[YPJT]

framer,

Covered in Aviation Transport Security Regulations r3.03

3.03 Requirement to display ASICs in secure areas
(1) Subject to subregulations (4), (4A) and (5), regulations 3.05 to 3.09
and subregulations 3.18(2) and 3.26(2):
(a) a person in the airside security zone of a security controlled
airport must properly display a valid red ASIC; and
(b) a person in a secure area (other than the airside security zone)
of such an airport must properly display either a valid red
ASIC or a valid grey ASIC.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note 1: The requirement in subregulation (1) applies to a person who is
accessing parts of the sterile area not generally accessible to
passengers or the public.
Note 2: For properly displaying, see regulation 1.04; for valid, see
regulation 1.05; for secure area, see regulation 1.03.
Note 3: A person who properly displays a valid VIC or TAC, and is
supervised by a person who properly displays a valid ASIC, need not
display a valid ASIC—see regulation 3.09.
(2) To avoid doubt, the obligations in subregulation (1) apply to crew.
(3) A contravention of subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.
(4) Subregulation (1) does not apply in relation to a security controlled
airport from or to which no regular public transport operation
operates.
(4A) At a security controlled airport from or to which no screened air
service operates, paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) apply only during traffic
periods.

Sub reg 4A above is an interesting one that not many seem to know about.

[The Green Goblin]

Ahhh YPJT :)

And exactly what I tell the security boffins. There is no requirement to display the ASIC card in the terminal at all. Unless you are in an area that is not available to the general public.

You must wear it airside or once you access restricted areas.

Funnily enough if you are with another pilot who is wearing one and they try to bust your chops you can always say you are under supervision of an ASIC card holder :)

[Fieldmouse]

Subdivision 3.2.2—Display and use of ASICs, VICs and TACs outside secure areas

3.12 Persons facilitating passenger check‑in or baggage handling outside secure areas

(1) A person who is facilitating:

(a) passenger check‑in; or

(b) the handling of checked baggage;

at a security controlled airport (regardless of whether, at the time, he or she is in a secure area) must properly display a valid ASIC at all times while doing so.

Penalty: 5 penalty units.

Note 1: For properly displaying, see regulation 1.04; for valid, see regulation 1.05. The passenger and baggage check‑in areas are not normally part of the secure area of an airport.

Note 2: A person who properly displays a valid VIC or TAC, and is supervised by a person who properly displays a valid ASIC, need not display a valid ASIC—see regulation 3.09.

Note 3: At a time when such a person is outside the secure area, he or she complies with subregulation (1) if the ASIC is either a red ASIC or a grey ASIC. At a time when he or she is in the secure area, the ASIC must be either a red ASIC or a grey ASIC in accordance with regulation 3.03.

(2) A contravention of subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.


Aint it a joke. Merry XMAS all.

[framer]

All too much for me, I'll just wear it when I'm off to work.
I hope these folk employed to check ASIC's have the authority to discipline all the groundless who sit in the hold or tug texting on their smart phones. A much bigger risk than having your ASIC in your pocket.

[Roj approved]

Here's a suggestion,

Make sure you check the ASIC and Company ID of the person checking you.

It's been known that their ID is out of date. You can then politely remind them of the consequences of impersonating a federal employee.

[YPJT]

Nice one Fieldmouse. :D

And one for the screening officers. When on duty they can only display an ASIC and if they lose or leave it at home, they cannot use a VIC. So if an airport does not have the provision to issue temporary ASICs, the screening officer is screwed until it gets replaced.

5.07 Identity cards for screening officers
For paragraph 94(2)(b) of the Act, a screening officer must hold,
and while on duty must at all times properly display, a valid ASIC.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

impersonating a federal employee

They aren't necessarily a federal employee.

[bankrunner]

The federal government of the United States of America is the undisputed king of security theatre, and is the only noteworthy believer in the pseudoscience behind the polygraph machine.

I think the fact the USA, of all possible nations saw the ASIC as a pointless exercise and chose not to implement a similar scheme of their own tells you everything you need to know about the true security benefits of the ASIC.

[International Trader]

Doubt that the government would go to the expense of policing these cards. I was going through immigration the other day and ,despite signs and maybe even a video running about not using mobile phones, I stopped counting at 60 people in line who were on their phones and without a care. Sure , majority were Asian ( who don't give a toss about regulations ,would claim that they don't speak English and therefore do not understand what a circle with a bar over a picture of a mobile phone means) but, one was a Qantas captain in the crew line .
All under the noses of the immigration staff and not a word said, not a fine dispensed. Do you really think that they will travel out to airports around the country and conduct raids?

[IsDon]

Don't think this is anything about enforcing rules, or actually achieving a measured improvement in security. It's all about power management and self promotion.

If the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development can beat their collective chests by making an example of a few unfortunates then that, in their pea brains, will be worth the effort and taxpayer expense.

I can see the Herald Sun headline now. "QANTAS CAPTAIN DETAINED AND CHARGED FOR NOT DISPLAYING CORRECT IDENTIFICATION. FLIGHT DELAYED. QANTAS SECURITY INVESTIGATES"

Remember the overriding reason for the existence of airport security.

1. Provide the illusion of security as we all no real security is all too hard.

2. Over inflate the importance of airport security in the media at every opportunity in order to reinforce our power base.

3. Using points 2 and 3 justify spending millions of taxpayer dollars on equipment which is of absolutely no benefit whatsoever (walk through full body scanners) but by spending all this money further justify our yearly budget.

4. By completing points 1 to 3 above, justify the employment of several thousand parasites that would otherwise be unemployable.

So, yes. I'm not surprised at all that these inspections are in the way. They will catch those whose ASIC has unfortunately blown upside down in the wind. They will make an example of those individuals. Puff out their chests and say what a great job they're doing.

[YPJT]

They will catch those whose ASIC has unfortunately blown upside down in the wind. They will make an example of those individuals. Puff out their chests and say what a great job they're doing.

IsDon, Technically they could do that but my experience is that the Transport Security Inspectors (TSIs) are not an unreasonable bunch. I would expect they would target those who are deliberately flaunting the regs by not displaying an ASIC at all, trying to use someone else's ASIC, or using one that has well and truly expired.

All these examples are well known and well documented largely thanks to posts on PPRUNE. :D

[Fieldmouse]

Remember the overriding reason for the existence of airport security.

The next heading, before your 4 points, should be:
Force the Airports to:
etc etc....


OTS pays for s#$t all, apart from running monthly RICM meetings where nothing happens.

It's the poor bloody pax, via the poor bloody airport, making L3, Smiths, MSS and SNP rich.

[YPJT]

pays for s#$t all, apart from running monthly RICM meetings where nothing happens.

It's the poor bloody pax, via the poor bloody airport, making L3, Smiths, MSS and SNP rich.

Cannot argue that said organisations are making a quid. Not unlike any other aviation associated business. Just like other organisations though, competition and margins are tight.

What do you suggest as an alternative to screening in the current climate?

BTW, RICMs are about 4 monthly.