Parachute Training for Aircrew

[Pontius Navigator]

I am curious about para training for aircrew. When I went through we practised para rolls at least a couple of times per week during initial training but little thereafter. We did regular escape drills and dinghy drills, including the beloved sea drills, but para rolls?

I know in Cyprus our flt cdr thought to use the Regiment jump rigs. One well rehearsed sprained ankle and that put an end to that.

What training is done today? Just in pre-flying training or a a regular event?

I ask as at my tender age I put my para roll training in to good use possibly twice a week.

[Stitchbitch]

FJ aircrew normally practice parachute drills on the synthetic para trainer as part of their unit SERE training (dry/wet drill, etc) . Not sure on currency period though.

[tucumseh]

I put my para roll training in to good use possibly twice a week.

That'll be the vino collapso then.

I thought one time when this was all resurrected was when the Westland crew got out of a Merlin (1994?). I seem to recall a blade dug in a few feet from the pilot's head, but they were all safe. The parachute programme was resurrected literally the next day and given to my oppo, presumably because of the similarity with is Under Slung Loads programme.

[Chugalug2]

At 5FTS Oakingtone we had to practice bailing out of the Varsity forward hatch wearing a chest parachute (while parked on the apron, I hasten to add!). You had to open the cockpit inner floor door and then the outer door with the handle thus exposed. You then slid gracefully to the ground, with both hands on the facing hand grip as you swung out. Somehow I must have caught the ripcord on something as I dropped out of the hatch. Red face and a white canopy that billowed everywhere! Told to gather it all up, go to the parachute section and handover chute and five bob (which was the agreed fine for such misfortune). :O

[Pontius Navigator]

Chug, I guess we had egress drills on the Varsity too but l had more in mind the forward left, backward right etc as floor exercises supervised by PJI s.

Certainly egress training had its m ok moments. The only realistic one in a Nimrod involved classes climbing out the which IIRC was only practised before the aircraft went in the shed.

The Shack, OTOH, involved the full fig, harnesses, canopy, dinghy and usually buddy-buddy. I had to fight off one helpful soul who tried to fasten a dinghy to my chest. And then I tried unsuccessfully to PULL the beam window out. I flatly refused to try the upper hatch.

[Wander00]

PN - me too. Have to tell you, last night had two large bowls of duck casserole for supper on the marble central work top. Picked them up and turned clockwise to go to sitting room - but unknown to me Murphy (the dog) had laid down right behind me. As I went over (him) I managed with amazing fighter pilot (not) reflexes to place both bowls on the worktop by the window, as I made my way to the floor. Landed OK (considering "no hands"), and very little of the casserole spilled out of the bowls. Only casualty was a wine glass I must have caught with my clothes as I passed the lower shelf on unit. No bruises this morning so all very lucky, but still makes me laugh - better than Del Boy going through the open bar flap! And injury avoided by a judicious roll onto the stone floor

[Herod]

Don't know about parachute training, but the helicopter "dunker" at HMS "Vernon" was interesting. It rolled inverted and turned nose-down as it did so, sinking all the while.

[Fareastdriver]

At 5FTS Oakingtone we had to practice

At Oakington before the advent of Varsities we already had the experience of the ejector seat rig. Parachute drills we did at Ternhill where we practises pulling ourselves out of a Provost T1. The Meteor flight had to learn to bail out under the wing if in the front seat and over the wing if in the back.

We all had parachute handling so that we would cope on the ground. They would pick a breezy day and we would stand on the upwind end of the sports field with a parachute on and pull the rip cord.

There would be a short interlude where you failed miserably to control it before you were flat on your face being dragged across the field by the parachute with the instructor PTI running beside you shouting;
"Pull the lower cords and spill out the air."

Fat chance; the only relief was when the chute collapsed over a shed in the other corner.

[Pontius Navigator]

FED, for the F4 we were dragged, on back, on front, and finally at sea.

Strange no mention, aside from Stitch, about LANDING training.

[Old-Duffer]

Herod possibly forgets that the Dunker was programmed to roll the way the blades would turn you during a ditching. Unfortunately, the Sycamore blades went round the other way from most other aircraft of the day.

The sheer terror when they turned the lights out to simulate a night time ditching!!!

However, I am sad to relate that I was on my sea survival course at Mountbatten when we lost a Master Pilot in the water.

Old Duffer

[Tankertrashnav]

On the Victors rear crews practised escape drills twice a year from an old cockpit, going through the seat swivelling, cushion inflating and finally exiting through the door onto some conveniently placed rubber mats. I dont ever recall practising landing on dry land though either, and I think we just did the sea drills at the start of tour.

[Pontius Navigator]

It is beginning to sound as if it was an aircrew initial training thing which assumed less or no importance with the change to all branch officer training. Also, from the stats shown on the Meteor thread, the need for landing training without aircraft assistance was much more likely.

[charliegolf]

'Course, Loadies of a certain vintage had to do the real thing. I seem to recall the second (of only 2) jump was referred to as the 'money jump'. I think because it MIGHT have ushered in FLINS- flying instructional supplement or somesuch!

We did ours with a company of Paras who would carry on for the whole 15 ish jumps and get a cherry berry. We also had to parade each morning, and I distinguished the whole of the RAF by 'falling out'* in the wrong direction!

CG

Or was it 'dismissing'?

[smujsmith]

A slight aside if I may gentlemen. I was fortunate enough to fly in most of the beasts I worked on in my RAF career. Every one accompanied by a briefing regarding abandonment of the aircraft, whether by bang seat or manual separation. As one who enjoyed membership of the RAFGSA, and a few hundred hours of gliding, I can't ever remember a briefing on abandoning a glider. I have to admit, it would have taken a major problem to have made me jump, but no one ever told me how to do it. I also remember wearing a parachute on air test in Albert from Colerne (early 70s) the briefing being, if you see the Nav go out of the crew door, follow him.

Smudge :ok:

[ValMORNA]

As an Air Signaller destined for Valettas in 1952 I attended a course at RAF Abingdon where I did the Forward/back/left/right roll training followed by zooming down in para harness from a tower to practice the technique. We graduated to a balloon jump where we volunteered the smallest of our four pupils to go first; we could hardly refuse thereafter. This gave us the certification as Despatcher, which was followed by a refresher course at MELF Ferry Point in the Canal Zone in 1954, courtesy of 16th Independent Para Bde group.

[Warmtoast]

I did my parachute training at RAF Abingdon in 1959 and took these photos. My logbook records one balloon decent that took place the end of the course.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Abingdon/1PTSAbingdon1a.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Abingdon/1PTSAbingdon2.jpg

Whilst I was at Abingdon, Bridgette Bardot was there too filming her "descents" for her part in the film "Babette Goes to War".

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Abingdon/BabetteGoestoWar-BrigitteBardotinparachuteharness2.jpg


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Abingdon/BabetteGoestoWar-BrigitteBardotParachuteLanding2.jpg

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/thawes/RAF%20Abingdon/BabetteGoestoWar-BrigitteBardotParachuteExit.jpg

[ValMORNA]

Warmtoast,


Thank you for showing your photographs; they brought back memories! My collection from Abingdon went up in smoke, unfortunately.


Does your log book also record 'Light wind, fair flight, good landing'?

[Warmtoast]

ValMORNA


No mention of winds at all.

[newt]

Well I can still do the parachute roll after all these years! Did the Abingdon course and the worst part was the balloon jumps! Did a water jump in Cyprus! Then did it for real! Not sure how I landed but it was a nice soft ploughed field!:ok:

[ShyTorque]

During the early part of my time instructing on the Bulldog, it was normal to leave the parachute in the aircraft after landing, which meant routinely undoing the seat harness, then the chute QRB, before climbing out.

We were required to carry out an abandonment drill once a month, when we practiced climbing out taking the chute with us. After a fatal accident involving another QFI who fell out of his parachute harness after abandoning his spinning Bulldog, I decided that every time I climbed out of my aircraft, I would take my chute with me and then put it back in the aircraft for the next occupant. It was likely that he inadvertently unlocked his chute harness as well as the seat harness, so force of habit rather than emergency training took over.

[Pontius Navigator]

The Abingdon course was presumably for those that might jump as opposed to abandon their aircraft.

I am just surprised that no one has admitted hangar training at South Cerney or other aircrew training establishments.

[MOSTAFA]

Abingdon 1973 - as a young fledgling paratrooper all I can remember about RAF Abingdon was the 101 Club which had a never ending supply of females and a very pretty young WRAF bus driver called Dilys. Happy landings indeed.:O

[rlsbutler]

Singapore 1962-64. Every once in a while a Beverley from Seletar would fill up with casual customers like me for an early morning drop into the warm sea off Changi. The usual load was 96 and the aircraft would only be at 800 ft.

On my Canberra squadron there seemed to be no aircraft escape training. It just happened that, because the Beverley trip promised to be amusing, I had let myself in for a two day course with the jump instructors. I was always clumsy at the jumping-and-falling-and-rolling exercises, which everyone agreed did not matter because we were only going to jump into water.

On the actual trip I was at the end of the stick, sitting next to the Major General General Staff newly arrived in theatre. He was quite amiable but, while the aircraft droned round and round, he wanted to read the office work he had brought with him. I never saw what it was he did to save all his paperwork from getting soaked.

Being clumsy, on the drop I got my parachute lines tightly coiled under the parachute, spent most of the drop sorting them out and therefore missed the lovely view.

[Trim Stab]

My jumps were all done in the days before GPS and I have since always wondered how the crews managed to take off from the UK and find a DZ (sometimes several DZs on the same trip) in the depths of the Danish or German countryside in the middle of the night. Presumably they used TACANs to get close - but how was the final run onto the DZ navigated?

[Dougie M]

Having spent years dispatching paras from the safety of a serviceable C130, it was after a number of tequila based libations in Southern California that I was coerced into participating in an "Assisted Free Fall". The day dawned and I went through the drills with my PJI like a robot with a thick head. "Just look at me" he said before throwing himself backwards off the ramp at 12000ft , still holding on to my harness! All briefings vanished. The 55 seconds of free fall were a nightmare of uncontrolled flailing, terminated by the barometric release opening the chute at 3000ft. Lack of coordination, chute handling, and hyperventilation landed me miles off the DZ. A helpful DZSO took a pic of me on the long walk back. I think that it would be a bad idea to make aircrew parachute for real, although it does sort out any constipation problems.


http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag76/dougiemarsh/e22eb52e-6164-43f5-afde-25805bacc771_zpsl4vd8spf.jpg

[rolling20]

During the early part of my time instructing on the Bulldog, it was normal to leave the parachute in the aircraft after landing, which meant routinely undoing the seat harness, then the chute QRB, before climbing out.

We were required to carry out an abandonment drill once a month, when we practiced climbing out taking the chute with us. After a fatal accident involving another QFI who fell out of his parachute harness after abandoning his spinning Bulldog, I decided that every time I climbed out of my aircraft, I would take my chute with me and then put it back in the aircraft for the next occupant. It was likely that he inadvertently unlocked his chute harness as well as the seat harness, so force of habit rather than emergency training took over.

We had a chap demonstrating Bulldog in flight abandonment once to a local fire brigade in the hangar, when we're on detachment. He promptly undid harness and chute and jumped out. On realising he had 'jumped' without his chute, he said 'hmm, I think I had better do that again!'. Made the quote book.

[Exnomad]

All I ever did was Dinghy drill, jumping into the pool in full gear, never did swim very well, but managed to travel a few yards and climb in the dinghy.
If one had to exit a Varsity by the rear door, the tailplane looked awful close.
Sat in a "hot seat" a few times, but fortunately never had to pull the handle

[Tiger_mate]

Loadies were the last aircrew trade to complete parachute training as an integral part of their flying course.

I got recoursed from the last course that had to do it back onto the first course that did not.

...... Which made me the happiest chopped student on the planet. Circa 1985.

[Pontius Navigator]

As the thread seems to be focussed on actual jumps, our plotter in the V-Force, a bit of an adventure nut, applied for one of the water jump courses.

Permission was refused by some Go Capt at Bomber "in case this would encourage you to jump in the event of an operational scramble."

He got round the refusal and added parachuting to scuba diving and mountain climbing.

[Whopity]

I ask as at my tender age I put my para roll training in to good use possibly twice a week. I recall jumping off benches in the gym, but flying in aircraft without parachutes, it was of little use until I found myself passing the horizontal after tripping in a car park, the knowledge saved me another broken arm. If you have to do it twice a week, time to drink one pint less per week!

[Pontius Navigator]

Whopity, or more.

One time it didn't work I went on to sheet ice. Upright one moment, flat on my back the next and no recollection of the transition. Apart from the thump on my head, no pain. I tan through the checklist, pain - no, feel toes moving - yes, breathing stable - yes. Eyes - open -OK.

I then admired the blue skies and a circle of faces peering down from on high, sat up, put my hat on, got in the car and drove off. Out of sight I went B*** H** that hurt. :)

[ShyTorque]

We had a chap demonstrating Bulldog in flight abandonment once to a local fire brigade in the hangar, when we're on detachment. He promptly undid harness and chute and jumped out.

Precisely what concerned me. We were practicing the wrong drill by routinely climbing out without our chutes.

[PapaDolmio]

Very common among SF C130 crews in the 80s/90's. Allegedly.

[Avtur]

Don't know about parachute training, but the helicopter "dunker" at HMS "Vernon" was interesting.

No disrespect intended Herod, but its this sort of thing that creates unwanted thread-drift. Please ATFQ next time or keep quiet. Should you wish to discuss dunker training at HMS Vernon, I am sure we would all love to read/comment about it on its own thread; this one was about parachute training. Rant complete.

[Trim Stab]

During the early part of my time instructing on the Bulldog, it was normal to leave the parachute in the aircraft after landing, which meant routinely undoing the seat harness, then the chute QRB, before climbing out.

We were required to carry out an abandonment drill once a month, when we practiced climbing out taking the chute with us. After a fatal accident involving another QFI who fell out of his parachute harness after abandoning his spinning Bulldog, I decided that every time I climbed out of my aircraft, I would take my chute with me and then put it back in the aircraft for the next occupant. It was likely that he inadvertently unlocked his chute harness as well as the seat harness, so force of habit rather than emergency training took over.

http://www.ukserials.com/pdflosses/maas_19850325_xx660.pdf

Accident reports in those days were brief and vague compared to contemporary reports. The description "the instructor was seen to jerk in his harness and fall away to his death" leaves a lot of unanswered questions. Who was the witness? Possibly another Bulldog crew nearby? We always used to take advantage of observing spinning from another aircraft if nearby as it was very instructive. Possibly the student? Though unlikely as the first few seconds after jumping until the chute is stable are very disorientating, even when experienced, so a first time and completely unprepared jumper is unlikely to be very observant. If they were spinning, they would be too high for ground witnesses. Also, how long after chute opening did he "jerk in his harness"? When the chute opens the jolt is not particularly violent, and I never recall seeing anybody "jerk" with arms flailing around.

Also, odd that there was not a more thorough investigation into what caused the irrecoverable spin in the first place.

All in all, quite a strange incident and report.

[Old-Duffer]

Oh Avtur - it's the season of goodwill!!!!!!!!

Thread Drift is an 'occupational hazard' of posting anything on this forum - that's 'half the charm' of it.

Happy Christmas from soggy UK

Old Duffer (complicit in the dunker drift)

[charliegolf]

We should have a 'Best Thread Drift Comp'!

Oh, I just won! Yay!

CG

[Pontius Navigator]

My daughter did the dunker to and then the battle damage repair as well. She is neither RN nor aircrew, but RAF loggie.

Unlike RAF BDR, in rain at worst, she was underwater and had to be held down, but that's the Navy.

On one drill at Luffenham, after being dragged along on our backs across the grass, we were offered the same experience on our stomachs. It was not smooth grass but undulating with the hollows filled with snow. We demurred. The young fg off instructor demonstrated and said it was quite safe. We again declined. He said we would not pass the course if We didn't. To a man, from Paddy Hine down we refused knowing they could never chop an entire F4 course.Wimps all :).

[VictorSR]

I must have had a rush of blood to the head - during my first tour (as a copilot) - I volunteered for the 4 jump static line course at Abingdon. After rolling around on the Hangar floor for a week we did the jumps. The first two were from a balloon basket at 800 ft. Weird because of the silence. Afterwards I asked the PTI how effective the reserve would have been, and he said that we trainees would never had time to realise that the main hadn't worked and to react correctly!
The remaining two were from a Herc in a very stately single stick, so that we didn't risk tangling from a twin stick exit.
The real paras, training alongside us, were not so lucky - two separate pairs got tangled and left the airfield in ambulances.
Never had to do it in anger, fortunately

[charliegolf]

Regarding 800' balloon jumps:

Afterwards I asked the PTI how effective the reserve would have been, and he said that we trainees would never had time to realise that the main hadn't worked and to react correctly!

On the day I did my balloon jump, I witnessed a para successfully deploy his reserve when his main played sily buggers. On reserves, a staff byline used over and over again was: "No-one is ever going to bollock you for deploying your reserve- you need it, you pull it!"

CG

PS, on the same day, I saw a para be pushed from the gondola (2 before me!) after stalling twice. It was common for the paras to invite the PJI to do that, rather than choke and fail.

[VictorSR]

CG - you are absolutely right - we were certainly told "if in doubt pull the reserve". What the Major meant to say was that, with the numbers in the vertical descent from the balloon as - initial height 800 feet - drop of 200 before the chute should open - time waiting for something to happen (still falling at an ever-increasing rate!) then pulling the reserve didn't leave much time for reserve to open.
For the same time delay after leaving the aircraft (with a forward throw) the height loss was much less - so more time to sort it.
Anyway, it all worked so job done

[charliegolf]

VSR- I remember the 200' silent drop as if it were yesterday! The tip our jumping bean gave us was to look up at the canopy and rigging coming out. Two reasons: one, it looks as it it's going up rather than you going down; and secondly, any malfs will be obvious very quickly.

I'd have to say, it's a thing I'm very glad I've done- the 2 weeks pre jump training we had was excellent. Credit where credit's due. Does PTS still exist even?

CG

[Trim Stab]

Afterwards I asked the PTI how effective the reserve would have been, and he said that we trainees would never had time to realise that the main hadn't worked and to react correctly!

One of the training jumps on French army para course involves deliberately pulling the reserve (usually third aircraft jump).

[Vasco Sodcat]

In 2002 I noticed that the "jump day" of a Water Descent Course (into Falmouth Bay) was on my 40th birthday. "Its an omen" thought I, and like a fool, volunteered. CARP'ed out by the Wittering Taff, from XV304, into the Bay's water of +16*C. Very thankful that my birthday is July, probably wouldn't have volunteered if I'd been a winter baby!

[SRAM]

Missed a trick in AK PN, 70 Sqn did jumps into the bay, volunteers only, but not to be missed. Our instructor informing us that this PX chute had completed 500,000 successful jumps prompted me to reply that I'd sooner have another one! Well here I am.

SRAM

[Pontius Navigator]

SRAM, while I am wholly thankful to the PJI s that gave me the training, I am of the serviceable engine persuasion.

Our Stiash at AK, for his finale did a short Vulcan trip, then to the F3 for a PI against the Vulcan before taking off in the Herc. Having jumped into Limasol bay a Whirlwind picked him up and landed on the beach.

At this point the entire crew deplaned and our hero flew the budgie home on his own.