First post, from a wannabe

[Sagey]

Its only my second visit to this site, only found it yesterday.

I am 22, at one of the alleged "better universities" (University College London if u really want to know) and graduate from my degree this summer (hopefully will at least pass it). Over last 2 years not really been happy with degree, but have slogged it out etc. Sick of hearing fellow students ranting about, have u applied to this bank, to this company to do this etc. And it simply isn't what I want to do.

All I wanna do is fly (admittedly at the age of 5 I wanted to be a Spitfire pilot, but once the fear of being shot at and the realisation that I had missed the boat by a good few decades<g>, turned my attention to Commercial flying.

However I am absolutely skint, I have paid for a few lessons in the past but it was more as a "treat" than a continued thing due to limitied funds atm, and obviously will be applying to airlines for sponsorship. But more importantly, if I have to fund myself how easy is it to obtain loans etc with reasonable rates of interest. Are there companies that offer loans only for wannabe pilots, on similiar terms to Student loans?

Another slight concern is jobs, I dread the thought of being stuck in a desk job doing something I absolutely loathe. All energy being taken up by the job, not great pay and struggling to fund even a ppl. And then missing the boat, as another avenue has taken me away from where I want to go. There are probably loads saying that is exactly like me, and it has probably been said so many times on this board. But any advice in a general context concerning such cases would be excellent.

Have thoroughly enjoyed reading the site and hope that my first contribution has not bored you all to death. Keep up the good work

Si

[Lucifer]

As a graduate, I really would advise you to do a bit in a good job first, as you will actually get a loan through being an earner and in a position to make some repayments. Three years in a bank, if you can get it, will enable you to live and pay for your exams etc, without the worry of a massive loan, plus you will have a career path to fall back upon.

[Sagey]

Understood, whilst applying for sponsorship due to age limits, I know 22 not exactly near the upper limits of getting sponsorship but 3 years in a job and you certainly are near.

Can the government help in anyway, ie financial schemes etc?

Si

[foghorn]

Lucifer's advice is good. Get the alternative career, keep applying for the sponsorships. In a few years if you are not lucky with the sponsorships you'll have a good enough financial record to borrow any cash you haven't managed to save for self-sponsored training, and you'll have a fall back if things go pear-shaped.

The government isn't interested in paying to train pilots as there are so many people willing to open their own wallets to be one.

Good luck!
foggy (28, 6 years in IT, 6 months from CPL/IR)

[ROTATION]

Definately good advice. Get the well paid but possibly mind-numbing job whilst applying for every sponsorship going. Meanwhile, tuck away some cash for funding yourself if you don't get the sponsorship. And even if you do you may well need several thousand anyway as BA, Aer Lingus and Air Atlantique are the only airlines that give full sponsorships.
Have a look for my BIG sponsorship post I wrote about about a month ago - I was in your shoes two years ago.

Good Luck

[gimpboy]

As the others have said - you need an 'grand plan' to get the dosh you need. I see two possible ways of doing it - the long way or the short way (These are the options I see myself faced with - I am graduating in June and will work as an IT Contractor (good money after a short period - if you can blag a first job, stick in it for 6 months and specialise in an area of IT - this is how to make the big bucks quickly. Once you are a specialist, agencies will fall over themselves to offer you work - rates in London for e.g. - database developers can be in the range £10-40/hour+++)) ... anyway back to the flying!!

Option 1: An integrated course
Looking at around £50k (Oxford)
Save as much as you can per month.
E.g. - if you take home £3000 a month after tax, save £1500/month and you will have the money in 2yrs 9months - all going well.

Option 2: Modular
Spending and saving as you go.
E.g. - save £4000 - get the PPL
Oxfords modular course comes out at about 27-28k not including PPL and 150 hrs you need to start!

More info: www.oxfordaviation.net (http://www.oxfordaviation.net)

My experience with loans is not good as the others said, unless you have capital.

Another option is to dissapear overseas (Dubai...no tax!!!)

IT Contracting >> www.jobserve.com (http://www.jobserve.com)

Hope this helps!!

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[Lucifer]

I did mean whilst trying to get a sponsorship!

[Lard Beast]

The boring job for a few years may be the way to go but out here in South Africa there's a school who'll do the whole Commercial multi engine bit for about 11000 Pounds Sterling including an instructor's rating and a one year employment contract to build some time. Only problem is that after that you need to go back to the UK and write the JARs. Alternatively you could get a job elsewhere in Africa and build some turbine time. For about 7000 Pounds extra you could convert to three turbine types (C208, BE90 and BE 200). For more info contact me on [email protected] and I'll give you the info you need. Good luck and hope you get the sponsorship you want.

[ickle black box]

Blimey, gimpboy, what type of job do you do???, take home 3k per month after tax, means a salary of 50k a year. You'll take a serious pay cut as an FO, although .. maybe thats not the point though ..

[Tarmach]

Sagey,

I am in a similar position as yourself. I graduated (from a good university) last June with a good degree in Physics.

I applied to BA, but was unfortunately turned down at the aptitude stage. Therefore i had a cunning plan to enter teacher training and earn a few bucks - especially as the government is throwing money at people to become teachers.

I chose teaching for a number of reasons mainly that it looks good to flying schools/airlines if you want to go into training etc.

I'm finding it quite hard going - teaching secondary school children and really motivating myself, because many of my fellow peers are soley interested in teaching and that’s all they ever wanted to do!! – Nothing wrong with that although I’m just doing it to fund my training- post – PPL.

Please don’t get me wrong, I give teaching (or try to) my all in fairness to the kids, but there is always a niggling thought at the back of my mind about flying. In addition to finding it hard going - competing
against people who work all hours doing sh*t like lesson planning and making paper empires whereas i'm just content with reading the Transair catalog and Trevor Thom manuals.

I originally thought this teaching job would be fine, good finishing times and good holidays etc to fit my flying in! But the reality is that teaching leaves me totally tired and run-down and consumes all my time at home.

So think hard about careers to fund your training Sagey!!

Tarmach.

p.s. how do you become an I.T consultant??

[This message has been edited by Tarmach (edited 01 March 2001).]

[feetnkneestogether]

Sagey,
You've had some sound advice on this thread. Take it on board.

I was a 'mature' student, graduating aged almost 28. I fannied around for about 18 months with this dream of getting my flying career going. I temped, then did a few hours aloft starting my PPL then temped a bit more.
The weather was fowl, I was broke and I barely gained many hours (not even going solo) and then failed the final board for BA sponsorship. That was the final straw. I immediately went hunting for "proper jobs".

I found a good graduate job locally but before starting I popped over to Florida for 4 weeks. I completed my UK PPL, hour built and came home with 82 hours TT.
I started this "proper job" and now, almost 2 years later, I have completed all my ATPL exams (PPSC correspondence), have joined a flying group on a Tomahawk , so I can hour build as and when, am currently doing an IMC AND I have money saved in the bank. Will be doing my CPL/IR this summer.

The moral of the story is; Have a plan, a long term plan, get a real paying job and do everything one stage at a time whilst keeping your ear to the ground. Keep applying to sponsorships. Remember that a responsible job on a CV looks better than someone just pissing about. I think BA were unimpressed by how I had filled my time since graduation.
We're all desparate to jump in that jet RH seat but if you are methodical in your approach it will all turn out fine. You're a young lad you have plenty of time.

TTFN.......and good luck

[gimpboy]

ickle black box:

Your right... money and flying for me are not important - I would live in a dodgy caravan and fly for food!! :)

Tarmach:

How to become an IT consultant... OK here goes.

Firstly - getting into the contracting market can be an arse to start off, but once you are on the ladder, things move pretty quick.

For someone with no IT experience, the best route in is to do a perm. job for about 6mths - 1 year. You can normally find trainee stuff fairly easily.

Once in the perm. job, specialise as quickly as possible in a certain area - e.g. - JAVA programming and become an expert.

Bin the job when you are confident you can walk into a random Company and say .. yep you want that... no problem! (certain amount of blagging usually required)

Note you will not normally be able to look for contract jobs while in a perm. job unless your notice period is 1 week or less. This is because most contract jobs work like this: Day 1 : Send CV, 20 mins later get call asking for interview, Day 2: Attend interview "Can you start tommorrow - 7am??"

And thats it - do a good 6 months contract work, then ask for a pay rise - if they refuse, leave.

Agencies love people with commerical experience. Also remember all agencies are Ba****ds - they only ring when they have a job they think you can do. Best approach I have found is to treat them exactly the same: Use, Use, Use!! - dog eat dog!

Great thing about contracting is when you are bored - leave! also you can plan time off for flying easily or ATPL exams, etc.

for starters try these:

www.computerpeople.co.uk (http://www.computerpeople.co.uk)
www.jobserve.com (http://www.jobserve.com)

If you need any more info, let us know!!

:)

[Sagey]

Cheers for advice, was a bit shocked at number of responses.

The degree I am doing now allows me to pick and choose courses, which I hope will be useful to airlines eg (2 maths courses ok for economists but it far exceeds A level maths, lots of computing for employment skills etc, and geography etc). Although in reality I don't think a degree or what degree u have matters too much re sponsorship it is more motivation etc(it does probs help with 1st paper shift)

I will be looking at other jobs and was thinking about trying to do something connected with aviation, a lot of fellow students go into recruitmancy etc so aviation recrutimancy for me if poss or work for an airline on graduate programs (builds a network of contacts etc), obviously degree coming to an end (good thing, but can do without any real disasters that can happen, got a mate got a 1st second year and walked out with a 3rd, if he hadn;t done so well in 2nd year would have failed etc, so sadly disasters happen).

Sponsorship well you have to hope, we all do. It seems a sad thing really that not enough airlines do sponsorship schemes (even 50% would be a massive help to wannabes). But I always believe that if you want it you will get it. A lot must do one sponsorship, not get it and just give up IMO (certainly different from people on this site).

Anyway has turned into a bit of a ramble from hell, so hope not boring anyone too much. Funding, it certainly is a lot of money, and at present am in debt due to student loans to the region of 3000 pounds. Sounds nothing compared to trainning I know.

Anyway wish everyone good luck and cheers for the advice. At the moment am getting a list of contacts together, which are being v helpful

Sagey

[VFE]

It seems the only difference between Sagey and myself is the degree. I will (God permitting ie:bank manager!) be getting a loan for my training through to CPL. For this you have to have a guarantor (ie. your parents house) and life insurance if things go pear-shaped.

Drastic course I know, but you should have a good crack at all those sponsorships seeing as you live in the UK. In the States everyone pays for their own training.

Welcome to PPRuNe and please stay in touch.

Regards, VFE.

[Sagey]

Well not got the degree yet lol, really got to knuckle down for revision etc, have slowly started but finding jobs and applying for sponsorships etc takes time too (everyone at Uni in same boat anyway, regardless of job aspirations).

Yeah I would love to ask my father to be guarantor to a loan, apart from getting a crude reply and "I haven't got any money etc". It's something I want to do myself really, I have spent years at Uni without earning and parents have supported me, it seems a bit unfair to ask them to undergo more potential hardship. Please don't take this as I am being unambitious about making it, it is far from the truth. That would be LAST OPTION. I would sell my car, but would probs have to pay em to take it away lol

Good luck

Sagey