American re-enters South Pacific

[c100driver]

American Airlines will launch a daily non-stop service between Auckland to Los Angeles from June 2016.

Air New Zealand flies daily to LA with more about 17 return flights per week and has had a monopoly on the route since Qantas axed it Auckland to LA service in May 2012.

American Airlines, the world's largest airline, would codeshare with Qantas on the route.

It would service the route with its new Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, whereas Air New Zealand uses Boeing 777-200 and 777-300 aircraft with economy, premium economy and business class.

Both Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and American Airlines chief executive Doug Parker were in Wellington for the announcement which Transport Minister Simon Bridges also attended.

Parker said the route would bring the price of Auckland to LA airfares down but its pricing was yet to be set.

[Keg]

Was always a good move spinner for us. Not enough airframes at the moment.

[wheels_down]

I recently bought two people return MEL-AKL-SFO on ANZ. $1800 for two (yes return!). 1 person AKL-SFO was $1800.

Bring it on.

[Going Boeing]

The two things that killed the QF service between AKL & LAX was the change of the NZ domestic feeder services from the Jet Connect flown Qantas operation to a Jetstar operation and the change of aircraft from B747 to A330 - the slower cruise speed and the requirement to fly a longer route (to meet ETOPS) meant that the elapsed time was significantly inferior to the Air NZ services. The AA B787-8 service will solve the elapsed time issue but it will be interesting if customers will accept the JQ feeder services.

[c100driver]

and the requirement to fly a longer route (to meet ETOPS)

What sort of EDTO was the A330 running?

The T7 runs 180 minutes most of the time and does not normally have to fly diversion routes to maintain EDTO coverage!

[cavemanzk]

With Air New Zealand, planning to launch another two routes tomorrow morning. With the hint one could be another to the Americas. Things could start to get fun across the pacific.

NZ already has AKL-HNL,LAX,IAH,SFO,YVR,EZE

[ExSp33db1rd]

Be nice to have a choice to LAX again ( since QF pulled out ). my wife recently flew Air NZ, departing around 11.oo pm. AirNZ announced a delay until next day around 10.00 pm and refused hotel accom. Meal vouchers were not passed out until after restaurants had closed for the night.

My wife, a commercial, checked in, pax. - we don't receive Staff Rebates anymore - "enjoyed" a night on the floor of the terminal. Air NZ prided themselves on finding mattresses, which they handed out !

Next day the cabin crew admitted that they had been given prior notice, and not reported for duty, so at least it would have been possible for pax. to buy their own dinner even if AirNZ didn't want to hand out vouchers in time ?

Not our only experience of less than reasonable behaviour from Air NZ.

Bring on the competition, even today Air NZ have just announced a $300 reduction in fares to LAX !

[waren9]

i regularly stay in a hotel 15min walk from that terminal for about $80/night.

the bus, if you need it is cheap and is every 10-15 min or so.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

The two things that killed the QF service between AKL & LAX was the change of the NZ domestic feeder services from the Jet Connect flown Qantas operation to a Jetstar operation and the change of aircraft from B747 to A330 - the slower cruise speed and the requirement to fly a longer route (to meet ETOPS) meant that the elapsed time was significantly inferior to the Air NZ services. The AA B787-8 service will solve the elapsed time issue but it will be interesting if customers will accept the JQ feeder services.

The A330 has 180 Minute ETOPS and did not need to divert on this route. The most probable reason the A330 was pulled was to defend the 65% "line-in-the-sand" domestically.

[TT738]

yes it seemed like a crazy decision to not leave any QF group airline on AKL/LAX. Thought JQ might take it over, if it was bleeding money for QF.

Soon yanks can fly LAX/SYD & AKL/LAX on AA metal with only the trans tasman on QF.

[ExSp33db1rd]

I regularly stay in a hotel 15min walk from that terminal for about $80/night.

the bus, if you need it is cheap and is every 10-15 min or so.

Maybe you do, but it isn't a pleasant option for a near 80 year old woman on her own on a dirty night.

"BOAC Takes Good Care Of You" used to be my airline's slogan, and they did, too.

Air NZ's answer to my complaint at the way my wife had been treated was that she wasn't holding a Business Class ticket, or a "Frequent Flyer" so didn't qualify for hotel accom.

Now that there may be a choice she won't become an Air NZ frequent traveller, either !! As an American she'll know where to spend her money.

Bring it on.

[Alien Role]

Was told by ANZ staff that as soon as Qantas exited that route in 2012, ANZ put an extra 777 on per day and filled it.
Good move Qantas...


Role on...

[Going Boeing]

C100driver, the A330 was flown under the same 180 mins ETOPS as Air NZ's B777's and I don't know what the difference is between the two types Engine Out Cruise speeds but as the B777 cruises at 0.84 whereas the A330 cruises about 0.80-0.81, I suspect that there is a difference. As you are aware, long haul flight planning tries to fly the most efficient route wrt winds but when you have to stay within the ETOPS range of Christmas Island, it frequently means a less than optimum route. The QF A330 was averaging approximately 90 minutes more than what the QF B744 would take on the LAX-AKL sector.

Computer Reservation Systems prioritise flights according to shortest elapsed time so the fact that the Air NZ B777's cruised faster gave them a significant commercial advantage wrt bookings over the QF A330 operation. The whole reason QF put the A330 on the route was to position it to LAX so it could operate the route to JFK - the B744 had suddenly become "inefficient" due to all the underfloor freight being shifted to Atlas freighter aircraft.

TCOB, the route was closed due to shrinking load factors- not due to the aircraft being required for domestic factors. The 2 class 412 seat B744's that were used previously had extremely high load factors and, as Air NZ showed when they put on their additional service, the demand was still there - just not on the A330 product that QF was offering.

[cavemanzk]

Was told by ANZ staff that as soon as Qantas exited that route in 2012, ANZ put an extra 777 on per day and filled it.


NZ moved NZ5/6 to daily, along with introducing NZ3/4 a couple time a week.

Currently NZ flies AKL-LAX 18x weekly during the peak season, typically 14x 77W and 4x 772. Approximately 6200 seats every week, each way.

[waren9]

Maybe you do, but it isn't a pleasant option for a near 80 year old woman on her own on a dirty night.

"BOAC Takes Good Care Of You" used to be my airline's slogan, and they did, too.

Air NZ's answer to my complaint at the way my wife had been treated was that she wasn't holding a Business Class ticket, or a "Frequent Flyer" so didn't qualify for hotel accom.

Now that there may be a choice she won't become an Air NZ frequent traveller, either !! As an American she'll know where to spend her money.

Bring it on.

unfortunate.

(as far as the airline is concerned) was her journey originating/starting from auckland?

afaik, air nz and most others wont accomodate you in a disrupt if you havent "left home" yet? air nz regularly accomodates passengers stranded away from home.

if you see what i mean. yes, a **** experience. just looking for perspective.

[standard unit]

TCOB, the route was closed due to shrinking load factors- not due to the aircraft being required for domestic factors. The 2 class 412 seat B744's that were used previously had extremely high load factors and, as Air NZ showed when they put on their additional service, the demand was still there - just not on the A330 product that QF was offering.

Actually the load factors using both aircraft types were more than satisfactory with senior Auckland base manager being told by Lesley Grant that although the route was profitable the aircraft [332] were to be redeployed elsewhere where they could make "more" money.

Fact is they were needed for Joyce's pissing contest with Borghetti on East/West coast returns where QF lost tens of millions seeing who could piss higher.

[swh]

Goring Boeing,

Lots of rubbish as usual.

At the 180 minutes level, the 777-200/300/A330 have the same ETDO range circles, the 777-300ER is a whopping 41 mn more. The A330 has the higher landing crosswind limit by a whopping 2kts.

Both the A330 and 777-300ER are capable of beyond 180 minutes, i.e. 240 minutes.

The A330 is not M0.80, neither is the 777-300ER doing M0.84 when it reaches its initial cruise altitude of FL280/FL300 when heavy.

As for reservation systems, they don't know how fas an aircraft flies, they just know the schedule times published by airlines. Most people sort by price.

[Ichiban]

Video of AA over Sydney.

American Airlines Sydney to Los Angeles flights to resume with new Boeing 777 (http://www.traveller.com.au/american-airlines-sydney-to-los-angeles-flights-to-resume-with-new-boeing-777-gkyruz)

[captjns]

Air New Zealand doesn't hold the trophy when it comes to poor treatment of delayed passengers.

Jet Blue is by far the worst when it comes to delayed passengers. Anytime the little gnomes get wind of major delays and cancellations they disappear into the woodwork... to avoid confrontation. No one to be found but other abandoned passengers. These little gnomes remind me of the offsprings of the Stepford Wives, or the mindless Westworld Robots.

[ExSp33db1rd]

............. was her journey originating/starting from auckland?

She'd started her journey on an Air NZ "Feeder" service from our "home" airport 45 mins flight time away at 5.30 pm take off time. I left home to drive her to the local airport around 3.30 pm where she was "checked in" through AKL to LAX. There was around a 4 hour transit of AKL, where she was not re-united with her baggage of course, it was "checked through" and when the LAX gate opened she went through security to the departure lounge around 9.00 pm for an anticipated boarding commencement around 9.45 pm.

No delay was announced until after 10.00 pm. when it was too late to use the complimentary dinner vouchers provided. She couldn't make the 4 hr. road journey back home, and then return for the proposed 8.00 am delayed take off.

Our contention is that having been "checked-in" to LAX from our domestic airport she was firmly established as an Air NZ disrupted pax. and no way could she "go home" and start again for a now early morning departure.

I believe that some AKL residents did indeed offer to go home, but were refused requests to be re-united with their baggage.

Doesn't matter what anyone might say, our opinion of Air NZ and their treatment of their passengers on this occasion is cast in concrete in our minds and we await the arrival of AA and QF competitition with anticipated pleasure.

Going the other way, i.e. through S.E. Asia and the Mid-East we have the choice of Singapore Airlines and Emirates, to name but two who now get our money. Air NZ have had their chance and blown it as far as we're concerned.

Favourite Airline ? Whose !

[waren9]

dont mean to sound rude

but have you this same level of dialogue with the airline and if so, what was their response?

[empacher48]

I don't mind to be rude either, but why vent here? There is a whole department with Air New Zealand who deal with complaints like this.

The company is trying hard to learn how to do things better when things don't go right and I believe is moving in the right direction.

Just venting anonymously here without engaging with Air New Zealand isn't going to make anything better.

But at the end of it, I'm pleased you have another option going to LAX now. Competition is good, it will either show how good or bad the current operator really is.

[Eastwest Loco]

There is such a department empacher and with the most recent incident I have encountered they do not shine.

A client booked BNE AKL LAX on J class and a Star Alliance Platinum passenger of mine just 2 weeks ago endured the AKL LAX leg with seat mechanism totally U/S.

He had major shoulder surgery about 8 weeks prior and really needed the flat bed to get decent rest which is why he paid premium dollars with NZ rather than other carriers.

Also I had allocated him window on his own and for no apparent reason he had been moved by the airline into the U/S seat.

He was fuming when he finally arrived in LIR Costa Rica and fired off an email to the Airline feedback address. It only took 12 days for a response re compensation and there were no specific details regarding refund. This response came after I emailed my Sales Manager and have still not been acknowledged by her.

This seems to point to an internal "we know best" culture which can be tracked back to practices in the Airline's darkest days but on non operational platforms still seems to be present.

Take the stupid fare groups Trans Tasman where if a premium client wants the "sorta" business class product you can't actually tell from the GDS if it is available until you actually ticket the booking by forcing the fare basis code or calling Reservations. Bloody convenient that and even the staff hate it.

Basically that whole department is sub standard empacher as are a lot of their internal systems.

I will add that the client in question did say that the onboard crew were excellent and very apologetic about something they had no control over.

It would be interesting to know how many segments 02 Juliet was U/S for.

Best regards

EWL

[ExSp33db1rd]

I don't mind to be rude either, but why vent here?

I agree, but it just growed ( like Topsy ) from an initial comment.

There is a whole department with Air New Zealand who deal with complaints like this
Yes, but only to their satisfaction, and Yes, we did enter into dialogue with them and they presented my wife with 50 Airpoints, with an expiry date.

Because there is as yet no competition, we are about to embark on another round trip to the USA with them, can't use the Airpoints awarded because one can't pay for part of a trip with Airpoints, one has to have enough Airpoints to buy the whole ticket, so the 50 awarded will eventually expire.

Yesterday Air NZ told us that they have changed part of the return trip because they have cancelled the Regional flight on Dec. 7th - did we accept this or not ? Our option was to accept or we could cancel the whole trip, which we were tempted to do, until they demanded a cancellation fee of $300 per person. Eventually they allowed us to delay the return trip by 24 hrs., which we can live with but it only reinforces our resolve to give the competition a go asap. Goodbye.

[Chris2303]

There is no competition????

There is actually in the form of QF via Australia or HA via HNL

[Eastwest Loco]

My client has been offered a refund of the difference between business and premium economy on the AKL LAX route - at a value of $400.00.

I want these dudes that worked that out to do my business tax next year!!:sad::sad:

My calculation of the fare difference ex BNE is $3550. Even if you take it ex AKL which is totally inappropriate as the fare was purchased from Australia is around $1600.

Are the dudes that calculate these alleged compensations core shareholders?

It would appear so.

When everything works, and even when it doesn't (things do break) the cabin crew shine.

When it doesn't work the alleged customer care department is lack lustre.

Best regards

EWL

[MCDU2]

Great news. We lost our concessions with NZ a few years back so it will be nice to fly direct from the US and avoid visas for the gang and the extra time in going to SYD and back on ourselves.

[ExSp33db1rd]

There is actually in the form of QF via Australia or via HNL

That's not competitive in my book, why screw around going backwards to Aus. and/or mucking about with another airport. QF used to fly MEL/AKL/LAX that was competitive on the AKL/LAX route - the only one we are interested in because we need to go to Los Angeles - and we always used it, but not available now. Roll on AA.

Of course, we could also go via Singapore and London, too, but that is hardly competitive either, which is what the thread is all about.

Frankly, with all the useless knee jerk reactions that will be instituted as a result of Paris, I'd just as soon stay at home anyway, and all the airlines can go to Hell.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Today... in conversation with an Air NZ "Customer Service Agent" regarding the upcoming trip we are about to make to LAX, and which they have changed, she "casually" mentioned that they have just totally changed a trip via HNL that we have paid for in June, and once again screwed us. I asked when they might have told us, had we not "accidentally" called them - no idea.

Yes, for that trip we could have used the competition, Hawaiian, but they operated a night flight with inconvenient times, and we preferred Air NZ's day flight with a better itinerary, our choice, except that Air NZ have now changed theirs to a night flight as well, with difficulties now regarding hotels, connections, car hire etc. already booked.

No comment.