Real manual flying. Amazing 'interception'

[RAT 5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFCQJ5sYGtI


Considering all the discussion about computers v human pilots: and the debates about lack of real flying skills, this will blow your mind. Rolling a Vulcan? What would the CAA do about this? Way to go, man. I suspect the A380 was flown on AP the whole time and the only sensors the jet boys had were Mk.1 eyeball. Check out further YouTube videos and Dream! I thought base jumpers were nuts; then I thought wing-suiters were nuts. What's next; and I fly paragliders & aerobatics. Total cissy.
Hats off guys for a breath-taking stunning feat of true airmanship.

[ettore]

Amazing (and very French for the Swiss man Rossier :p) !

I'm woundering how SLOW the A380 was flying (you'll catch a glimpse of the flaps in a corner of the screen) and if one would achieve such a slow path with such a big bird without a software behind. Just asking :)

[GlobalNav]

I suppose they were mindful of the terrible consequences that an encounter with wake vortices would bring. Interesting, amazing, daring, even skilled, and I think unnecessarily reckless.

[Wirbelsturm]

and I think unnecessarily reckless.

Ah, the delights of a world without risk.

:zzz:

[GlobalNav]

"Ah, the delights of a world without risk."

I get it. But "Darwin Awards" are well-earned, too. A few such risks were well demonstrated by the victory of granite over flesh.

Might be worth balancing costs and benefits.

[ettore]

@GlobalNav

Unnecessary for sure, unless Dubai and Emirates desperately need advertising, which I don't believe. :=
Reckless I'm not sure. There must have been a tremendous deal of preparation, calculations, tests and trials before they called a video crew on rotor blades to add to the difficulty of such a sky ballet.:rolleyes:
And don't be fooled by the pictures: on a number of sequences you can easely check that the flying zombies are quite apart from the Big Bus flight path.:ok:

PS: interestingly the video does not give a single hint to the ATC people who certainly had their word to say on this occasion

[Jet Jockey A4]

Fantastic!

[puffyflyer]

Amazing.....

[CRayner]

That South African's wig is fooling nobody. I doubt it would stay in place in a strong breeze.

[etudiant]

Kudos to everyone involved!
Just a wonderful piece of work, crafted to inspire kids and to highlight Dubai as an Arab multicultural society that flourishes while embracing the modern.
It may have been a stunt, but it was splendidly well done.

[FullWings]

Great bit of flying.

As far as risk goes, I think I would rather have been on board one of the aircraft in the shoot than a lo-co flight with the crew on the (delayed) 5th rotation of the day, after six days at work, doing a NPA onto a contaminated runway with an aircraft carrying multiple ADDs. But that doesn’t appear unsafe to the general public...

[ShyTorque]

Reckless? I think not. It appears to have been thoroughly well planned, carefully briefed and accurately flown.

Without calculated risk, we would still be shuffling around on our knuckles.

[ettore]

@ 0'44" in the video (https://youtu.be/dFCQJ5sYGtI?t=45) Have you seen that wing ? At this height ? In that configuration ? :ooh:

I mean the wing of the Bus :)

Nine job, chaps :cool:

[Capn Bloggs]

Speccy, although I wouldn't be getting too close to those wingtips, if I were them...

Would we have heard about it if a splat had occurred? ;)

[megan]

I suppose they were mindful of the terrible consequences that an encounter with wake vortices would bring. Interesting, amazing, daring, even skilled, and I think unnecessarily reckless.Every aviator is aware of what tangling with vortices implies. Why do you think ATC ensure landing aircraft have a defined spacing? On your premise that would be "unnecessarily reckless", especially since there are encounters from time to time. Could be fixed by banning all aircraft from landing of course.

I think that the three months they took in planning and briefing this exercise (by professionals) were fully aware of the risks and what was needed to ameliorate those risks.

[Capn Bloggs]

C'mon Megan, flying a multi-ton airliner 5 miles behind another is hardly similar to a man-sized jetpack metres from the wingtip...

[_Phoenix]

A phenomenal performance, maybe the first free flight of a human being.

u5_ITt2LM0A

[RAT 5]

Interesting, amazing, daring, even skilled, and I think unnecessarily reckless.

To he who dares new worlds will be discovered, new horizons found, boundaries stretched, new paths walked. Stagnation is the beginning of the end.

[Wirbelsturm]

Might be worth balancing costs and benefits.

Very true, however it might also be considered that what is worth the risk is worth the risk.

The benefit to the guys flying the 'wing' is the fantastic thrill of what they are doing against the zero risk to anyone else but themselves.

Good luck to them and may they continue against the whims of the ''elf and safety' mafia.

[MLHeliwrench]

A lot of prep went into it:


http://youtu.be/dFCQJ5sYGtI

This vid is more interesting than the released one!

[femanvate]

I suppose they were mindful of the terrible consequences that an encounter with wake vortices would bring.
Interesting, amazing, daring, even skilled, and I think unnecessarily reckless.
:=
Potentially dangerous (like driving a car), yes, but reckless, no.
The 380 has a huge wing and can fly slow, especially without cargo and most fuel, and careful planning ensured the jetpack pilots stayed out its zone of influence.
Many skeptical professional minds had to be sure of success before the flight was permitted.

[wanabee777]

This video will, no doubt, entice a lot of young kids to aspire to the wonderful world of the freedom of flight.:D

[Tourist]

I'm interested to know why exactly you think that getting into the vortex would be such a big deal?

1. They would be flipped unceremoniously. So what? They either recover like a dart or they pull their parachute. It ain't going to damage them. Being flipped is more serious the bigger you are, not the smaller.

2. The big vortices come off the outside edge of the flap, not the wingtip, and they do so at landing speeds at high weight, not ~200kts

[RAT 5]

A short poll.
I have hung up my headset so will never fly the exotic A380; but possibly as a pax in the future. For those who might, or already do, I hope you enjoy it. But looking at this video of a lumbering White Whale, graceful though it might be, escorted by a small pod of dolphins as they formate and fly amongst the spume of clouds, I wonder who would rather be where.

I vote for the dolphins.

[Capn Bloggs]

Tourist, surely you can't be serious?

[Tourist]

Entirely serious.

And don't call me Shirley....

Why?

What do you think happens when you hit that vortex?

[Solar]

Well done, excellent, thank goodness we have people that still know what life is for.

[helen-damnation]

This could be interesting :ugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpu2Z80Jzac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpu2Z80Jzac

[Stanwell]

Sorry, Tourist.
I, too, must call you on your point #2.

[Tourist]

Sorry, Tourist.
I, too, must call you on your point #2.

Which bit?

The fact that the biggest vortices come off the outside edge of the flap, or that they are biggest when slow and heavy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfY5ZQDzC5s

Watch this video for the landing aircraft with flaps deployed, and tell me where you think the vortices are....

[NSEU]

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to imagine a scenario where a chain of events results in something catastrophic.

How directionally stable are these jetpacks when one of the motors cuts out?
How often do we hear of parachutists crashing into each other rendering someone unconscious (or killed)?
If one flyer did somehow get caught in a vortex would it be violent enough to render him unconscious?

It might inspire folks to take up aviation (or inspire people to do stupid things with much less preparation).

The benefit to the guys flying the 'wing' is the fantastic thrill of what they are doing against the zero risk to anyone else but themselves.

Isn't that sufficient reason?

Anyway, I won't be flying with Emirates if they think this is 100% safe.

[wanabee777]

GE publicity photo OP circa 1966.

fCORwUxlNQo

[surely not]

This was 100% safe, nobody was injured/killed. The planning was professional and managed the risks to ensure a successful outcome. I think it shows that Emirates are a very professional outfit.

Flying itself is not 100% safe, so I guess NSEU won't be going flying again.

[Tourist]

NSEU

I can accept that you think this could be dangerous for the jet pack guys, and would agree that the entire endeavour carries more risk than not doing it, but surely that is up to them?

Do you think that there is a risk to the A380?

You are aware that this was not a passenger flight, yes?

[Basil]

Anyway, getting back to the real World: What's the MSA at DXB now?

[Stanwell]

Tourist,
Re vortices: They are, of course, a consequence of Angle of Attack.
If flaps are deployed, then that part of the wing will have a relatively greater AoA.
So yes, the flap vortices will be somewhat greater than those from the wingtips.

Either way, not a good idea to mess with either of them if you're in another aircraft or just wearing a Batman suit.

[Tourist]

Either way, not a good idea to mess with either of them if you're in another aircraft or just wearing a Batman suit.

Yes, they will flick you out, but I'm not sure they would cause any harm beyond a couple of snap rolls, and the guys already have parachutes ready to go.

I'm quite sure they felt their way in gently, and you can feel the effect of the vortices even in an aircraft as you start to enter them let alone in a tiny jetpack.

These guys are not idiots or suicidal.
Do them the courtesy of not assuming that they have not thought this through.

[ShyTorque]

When it comes to aviation, there are always self proclaimed experts who do nothing but talk about it.

The real experts don't talk about it, but simply think it through then go out and do it.

Thank goodness for the latter! :ok:

[Stanwell]

Says Shy with nearly 10,000 posts,
Well don't just sit there talking about it - Clear to start. Off you go!

[deptrai]

Rossy flew Mirage, Tigers, and Hunters, 747...not sure what he currently flies for Swiss, but he is definitely a qualified, professional pilot, well aware of risks and more than familiar with meticulous planning.

His first flight tests of his carbon fiber wings and RC-model jet engines were probably - from a conservative viewpoint - a bigger risk than what he is doing now, after continuously improving his setup, and with more experience using it.

I agree that wake/wingtip vortices may not be such a huge danger for a human-sized flying object equipped with a parachute. This formation flight was probably safer, better planned, and better executed than many other flights worldwide. Amazing to watch :D

Regarding manual flight and Mk 1 eyeball: according to himself, he controls his "flight control surfaces" (i.e. his body) with his eyes. He looks in the direction of where he wants to fly, and his body moves accordingly, a very intuitive process. Flying by the seat of one's pants.

[ShyTorque]

Stanwell, I'm not expert enough but too old, with only forty two years of aviation under my belt, thirty seven of it for a living. But in my younger day I'd certainly have loved to have had a go, obviously having practiced the necessary skills well in advance and made the other necessary preparations as well as this team obviously did. But I have a fair amount of close formation experience, in fact the military thought I was good enough to teach others how to do it, in both fixed wing and rotary wing. These days I fly far less exciting stuff, mainly in straight lines. :\

Tourist, who was informed of some basic aerodynamic facts will also be very well acquainted with flying very close to the downwash of much larger aircraft. ;)

[Stanwell]

Yes. a most impressive vid. I dips me lid to the whole team. :ok:
I take my hat off to you and Tourist, as well.
I'm envious that you had the opportunity to develop those skills - and get paid for it.

Personally, I prefer to keep as much air as possible between me and other aircraft.

[megan]

C'mon Megan, flying a multi-ton airliner 5 miles behind another is hardly similar to a man-sized jetpack metres from the wingtip..Capn Bloggs, my post
I think that the three months they took in planning and briefing this exercise (by professionals) were fully aware of the risks and what was needed to ameliorate those risks.In making my post, and in particular referring to the professionals involved, I would have thought that everyone would have been aware of Yves Rossy, and his background as ex fighter pilot, airline captain and developer of the strap on jet powered wing. It's not as if he has not had notable media presence prior. With his background would he be aware of aircraft wake, vortices, and what they might do? Probably yes. ;)

"unnecessarily reckless"? Absolutely not. No different than the formation carried out by aircraft large and small in the worlds armed forces. The only difference is the capabilities of the respective aircraft and the limits applied, and their three month preparation would have covered all that, as I said in my post repeated above, "were fully aware of the risks and what was needed to ameliorate those risks".

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--iv09LD6o--/z4yzbjvqqcu2yn7avhlm.jpg

This Blue Angels Diamond Formation Is Terrifyingly Tight (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-blue-angels-diamond-formation-is-as-terrifyingly-t-1740604070)

That's not to say even the experts don't get it wrong

fCORwUxlNQo
Ae9YnDuOPOI

[Tourist]

Of course, you know what they could do next time...

Ditch the flaps on the A380 to pump up the wingtip vortices, nibble in tight and "surf" the front edge a la dolphins on a bow wave...:ok:

I wonder if they could turn their engines off?

[Capn Bloggs]

The fact that the biggest vortices come off the outside edge of the flap, or that they are biggest when slow and heavy?

In almost all those videos, the tiny "vortices" from the end of the flaps are merely areas of local low pressure, hence the condensation/streamer. The idea that the wingtip produces little or no vortex when the flaps are out is rubbish. Why do you reckon there are "monster" wake turb standards? Because of that little visual twister on the end of the flap?

Yes, they will flick you out
No, up and in. the flow goes from the bottom to the top.

The concept of "oh well if the wing gets ripped off they'll just chute to the ground" is similarly ridiculous.

PS: Good to see a Flying High officianado... :ok:

Megan,

I was referring to this silly comment of yours:
Every aviator is aware of what tangling with vortices implies. Why do you think ATC ensure landing aircraft have a defined spacing? On your premise that would be "unnecessarily reckless",

[msbbarratt]

What's that? The USAF experimenting with large tanker aircraft?! Next thing you know they'll be after the A330-MRTT...

[Tourist]

In almost all those videos, the tiny "vortices" from the end of the flaps are merely areas of local low pressure, hence the condensation/streamer.


Have you ever wondered what causes the areas of local low pressure? Do you think it might be by air being accelerated into a very tight votex?


The idea that the wingtip produces little or no vortex when the flaps are out is rubbish. Why do you reckon there are "monster" wake turb standards? Because of that little visual twister on the end of the flap?


At no point did I say that the wingtip produces little or no vortex, so you are correct that the idea is rubbish, but it's your idea not mine.

I said that "the biggest vortices come off the outside edge of the flap when slow and heavy" and I stand by that.

Watch this video again with particular attention to the approach from about 1:20 onwards. That approach has the "little visual twister on the end of the flap" plus it flies through cloud perfectly visualising where the "wingtip" vortices actually come from in landing config.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfY5ZQDzC5s

I did wonder if they actually were flying the A380 with more flap than required to deliberately shrink the wingtip vortices for the comfort of the jetpacks.


Quote:


Originally Posted by Tourist

Yes, they will flick you out

No, up and in. the flow goes from the bottom to the top.


Yes, I will grant you that, I phrased it poorly. I should have said it will spit him out of formation.


The concept of "oh well if the wing gets ripped off they'll just chute to the ground" is similarly ridiculous.


Why? You do realise that the entire jetpack thing involves many risks, yes? Compared to some of the things they have done, getting spat is not that big a deal.

I've been spat out before. Never been flicked right over, but run out of control authority many times.

Just like being in a small yacht is safer than a supertanker on a huge wave, they are better off being tiny....

[wanabee777]

The World's Only KC-747 Tanker Is Flown By The Iranian Air Force (http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-worlds-only-kc-747-tanker-is-flown-by-the-iranian-a-1581314071)

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--aSyw2I5Q--/omxrrd0nexodoiykc8f5.jpg

[RAT 5]

Yes, they will flick you out

No, up and in. the flow goes from the bottom to the top.
Yes, I will grant you that, I phrased it poorly. I should have said it will spit him out of formation.

Suck you in, chew you up & spit you out, more like. It seems to me they are staying above the wing and engine centre line; no doubt to stay in as calmer air as possible. I wonder if they practiced with smaller prop a/c, moving onto smaller jets and then this extravaganza. There ain't no simulators. Perhaps somewhere there is a more detailed documentary of the R&D of the jet pack. I remember the 1st experiments made with rockets; but they had little thrust control. Light the blue touch paper and enjoy the ride. If these are jets I assume there is some kind of thrust lever. Next question is what will the military think of it. Usually, when they get their hands on something, it whizzes along its development path.

[flydive1]

I wonder if they practiced with smaller prop a/c, moving onto smaller jets and then this extravaganza.

kSgrzMQv2Mc

[RAT 5]

Thanks FlyDive1. Finally I have an excuse to use that very much overused word by the Americans. "Oh my god, that's awesome."

Truly astonishing, and wishing I was 20 years younger. There was a Tony Hancock radio script, years ago in 60's, where there was a knock on the door of an airborne airliner and the classic words, perhaps from Kenneth Williams, "oh 'hello, can I come in." Who would have thought...55 years later.......

The first time I saw a paraglider do a loop = infinity tumble, I was in disbelief. Now the best pilots do a continuos descending series of loops that must be mind blowing; on a tea towel and a few bits of string. Add to that the other aerobatics they do. Risky, brave, adventurous? All of that. Reckless? No way. The known boundaries of so many things are now in places undreamed of. Where will all these adventurers take us? The goal was to fly a microlight over Everest. Impossible. Well the geese do it. Now it's been done. Will the jetpack man do it? Probably. Why? because it's there. Where to next? No idea, but the untrodden road is a magnet, it's just the first step that is difficult, and 50% of the journey.

[megan]

Rossy is quite experienced with formation flying using his wing, in the past, besides flydive1 video, he has flown with a DC-3, B-17 and Spitfire.

Capn Bloggs, I can only assume from your comment that the spacing on finals of landing aircraft has absolutely nothing to do with wake/vortices. I am under the misunderstanding then that it is the prime reason.

[Basil]

Believe it or not, the B757 wake turbulence category is 'Heavy'.
Not a lot of people know that.

[ExXB]

Not enough prep:

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