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Expe
1st Nov 2015, 19:08
In days some time ago, late 80s, in a place called St Giles there was a fleet managed of all types. I wandered those corridors and sent things in directions to do all manner of things, but alas no pics. Anyone got any from that era to remind?

Cpt_Pugwash
1st Nov 2015, 21:53
If you mean St. Giles Court, I wandered those corridors for a while in 1996. Not sure if I have any relevant pics though.

reds & greens
2nd Nov 2015, 07:17
Goodness, for a moment there, I thought you were paying lip service to the infamous 'San Gillé' area, just north of Lincoln in the 1980's.
The only thing being passed around there at that time were wives and alcohol (often at the same time)...allegedly

oldmansquipper
2nd Nov 2015, 08:42
Spent many a `time wasting` meeting there in the 80s trying to get `stuff` procured..

Great fun.

Mechta
2nd Nov 2015, 09:29
As Mechta Senior worked for MOD (PE) in St Giles Court for many years, I tried to locate a picture of the place on the net. All I could find was a plan of the place and this quote:

"The building was constructed in the early 1950's and contributes little to the public realm."

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCMQFjABahUKEwi0iKncwPHIAhXM1xoKHSw4A9I&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.camden.gov.uk%2Fccm%2Fcms-service%2Fstream%2Fasset%2Fappendix4-st-giles-court-brief.pdf%3Fasset_id%3D106112&usg=AFQjCNH72uSiUJkjKAUN6tEHbwU0MLm6nA&cad=rja

Presumably the enforced ban on cameras in MOD buildings in those days has a lot to do with the lack of photos.

I did find a picture here in post #5.
St Giles Court | West End | 49m | 15 fl - SkyscraperCity (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=483771&langid=6)

Wikipedia describes the area thus:
The grim appearance of St Giles Court contributed to the area becoming a magnet for prostitutes and the homeless.To my mind, a rather harsh description of MOD(PE) civil servants, but I didn't work there...

Expe
2nd Nov 2015, 14:24
The very place. :ok: Working for PE I was called worse... That said the fleet was interesting in those days. Think the BAC1-11 flying lavs were the last I recall being added at that time. Around 1987/88 - any memories /images of the fleet out there?

tucumseh
2nd Nov 2015, 18:59
Like most "MoD" buildings in London, St Giles was leased. It made the numbers easy to justify the move to ShabbeyWood.

At one time or another I worked on every floor except the basement and ground. Around 1993 the ceiling in my 8th floor office collapsed, making a soggy mess of the engineering drawings for an upgrade.

To the original question, the PE Fleet flew under D/Flying (PE) rules, not the Release to Service. In technical terms, the aircraft usually evolved into the Sample or "Hack", which meant there was no expectation it would ever be fit for Service use again.

The concept still exists, but of course is no longer called the PE Fleet.


Spent many a `time wasting` meeting there in the 80s trying to get `stuff` procured.

We were sat around as well waiting for Main Building to state their requirements. :ok: We usually gave up, stated them ourselves and carried on. In November 1994 I inherited a 5 year old programme. There was one file - containing 5 years of monthly cunning plans, each slipping the programmme a month with the statement "Await Requirement". Wrote the Cardinal Point Spec and had it under contract in 3 days. 4 years later the RN endorsed the requirement retrospectively. CDP then approved funding to enter Development, after the 5th Production set had been delivered and flown. You just gotta know how.

Mechta
2nd Nov 2015, 22:18
Expe, If you search by the locations from which the MoD(PE) fleet were operated, you should have more joy. E.g.:



RAE Farnborough (Try Googling RAE Farnborough "raspberry ripple"*)
RAE Bedford http://www.pprune.org/flight-testing/342964-rae-thurleigh.html
RAE Llanbedr
RAE Aberporth
RAE West Freugh
A&AEE Boscombe Down
RRE Pershore http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/511534-rre-pershore.html
Shoeburyness

There must be more.


At one time or another I worked on every floor except the basement and ground. Around 1993 the ceiling in my 8th floor office collapsed, making a soggy mess of the engineering drawings for an upgrade. Mechta Senior mentioned how he observed contractors painting the window sills, straight on top of all the accumulated dirt and pigeon droppings. He contacted the building services manager, who effectively told him to mind his own business!

As Mechta Senior's work included helicopter winchmen's harnesses and devices for downed airmen to get out of tall trees in Belize, he kept samples in the office, as he didn't have a lot of faith in getting out the official way in the event of a fire.

I had a flight in the Farnborough BAC 1-11. It was being used for early GPS trials, and was bought secondhand from an airline as I recall. Our department used the Dakota for testing infra-red linescans before flying them on the XRAE2 UAV, and later I flew to West Freugh in the Andover for TIALD** trials, when the Navaho Chieftains were all sick or otherwise busy. The TIALD pod itself flew on the Buccaneer.

*"Raspberry Ripple" was the nickname for the colour scheme used on most MoD (PE) aircraft
**Thermal Imaging Airborne Laser Designator

BossEyed
2nd Nov 2015, 22:48
It's worth looking out a second-hand copy of this:

http://www.transportstore.com/images/content/books/large/26330/P4290090.JPG

Wander00
3rd Nov 2015, 08:40
Mike Brooke's book Trials and Errors has a fair bit of info too. A good read, as are his previous two books, IMHO

Expe
3rd Nov 2015, 18:03
Fantastic, thanks all. I worked under a certain D/Flying(PE) around the name of Schooler (sp?) late '80s. Fun watching people trying to procure anything. I moved engines around and found some merlins hiding in a wind tunnel, probably Farnborough. Being youthful and all that was keen to rescue for BBMF. Went grey trying and left. Guess they are still there.:ugh:

chevvron
4th Nov 2015, 00:16
Fantastic, thanks all. I worked under a certain D/Flying(PE) around the name of Schooler (sp?) late '80s. Fun watching people trying to procure anything. I moved engines around and found some merlins hiding in a wind tunnel, probably Farnborough. Being youthful and all that was keen to rescue for BBMF. Went grey trying and left. Guess they are still there.:ugh:

Gp Capt David SCOULER. COEF at Farnborough and as with normal tradition, next posting was D/Flying (PE) which had been an Air Cdre post until David took over when it was downgraded to Gp Capt!
He presented me with a 'Good Show' award in the mid '80s after he had moved to Boscombe, I think Graham Williams was his successor as COEF at Farnborough. Last heard of David instructing on microlights at Old Sarum.
I happened to visit Coningsby for summer camp with my ATC cadets about the time the RAE Transport Flight Devons were being replaced with Navajo Chieftains. The BBMF people told me they had a 'hack' Devon which they'd literally 'pinched' from Wyton as it was about to be retired, problem was as it wasn't officially on charge, they couldn't get any spares for it. I told them about the Farnborough Devons being retired and a few weeks after summer camp, the BBMF Devon arrived at Farnborough. It was pushed into 'A' Shed (where the Devons had been serviced) and the doors were closed. About 2 hours later, it was pushed out, noticeably lower on its oleos than when it went in!!
BBMF later replaced this Devon with Farnborough's Dakota ZA947 which had been erroneously registered KG661 while at West Freugh, the 'real' KG661 having apparently being written off whilst serving with the RCAF.
Re the BAC 111s; the one at Farnborough (XX919) was already on strength when I was posted there in March '74 although I didn't see it until August as they were re-surfacing the main runway until then. Bedford's 1-11s came along later, the last one being about '92 I think (may be wrong) .
By the way, I don't think there were any MOD(PE) aircraft actually based at Aberporth, all the ones used for Cardigan Bay trials were based at Llanbedr.

chevvron
4th Nov 2015, 00:20
Mike Brooke's book Trials and Errors has a fair bit of info too. A good read, as are his previous two books, IMHO
It was Mike who flew a Harvard through a deploying parachute which had just emerged from a Hercules over Salisbury Plain. Fortunately the parachute was being used to drop a vehicle so no-one was hurt in the ensuing heavy touchdown.

DaveW
4th Nov 2015, 08:56
David Scouller is currently Head of Training at Western Air, Thruxton.

The multi Merlin-driven wind tunnel is the open circuit "blower tunnel" still in use at Boscombe Down.

Wander00
4th Nov 2015, 09:05
Who was the Farnborough CO from the late 80s who was CFI at Old Sarum in the early 2000s? When I started flying there he kept asking where he remembered me from - since he was likely to do my skills test I was reluctant to remind him that I had conducted his Command Accounts Inspection!

DaveW
4th Nov 2015, 09:16
That will have been David Scouller also.

aw ditor
4th Nov 2015, 09:23
Dave Scouller, ex 70C?

VX275
4th Nov 2015, 10:13
It was Mike who flew a Harvard through a deploying parachute which had just emerged from a Hercules over Salisbury Plain. Fortunately the parachute was being used to drop a vehicle so no-one was hurt in the ensuing heavy touchdown.


Actually it was three 60 ft parachutes. The Harvard shredded one and damaged another, so the vehicle (A Supacat) came down on one and a half parachutes and was undamaged. I know 'cos I was there.


Boscombe's Blower Tunnel hasn't been used for several years and its rumoured to be due for scrapping.

Wander00
4th Nov 2015, 10:22
Yes, I think you are right. thanks. That Command accounts Inspection was when I started the week at Bedford, flew in the Raspberry Ripple to Farnborough, did that inspection then flew on to Boscombe Down, where I had a trip I the front seat of the Harvard, did that inspection and at the end of the week flew back to Bedford. Great way to do business.

XR219
4th Nov 2015, 11:54
*"Raspberry Ripple" was the nickname for the colour scheme used on most MoD (PE) aircraft

Always thought this more appropriately described the red/white/grey RAF training colour scheme of the 70s and 80s. I've certainly never seen a raspberry ripple ice cream that included large amounts of Oxford blue!

Mechta
4th Nov 2015, 16:01
Quote:
*"Raspberry Ripple" was the nickname for the colour scheme used on most MoD (PE) aircraft
Always thought this more appropriately described the red/white/grey RAF training colour scheme of the 70s and 80s. I've certainly never seen a raspberry ripple ice cream that included large amounts of Oxford blue! Very true, I always wondered the same. Maybe XH897 (radome in particular) was the originator of the name and it stuck for the later colour scheme?

http://gb.fotolibra.com/images/previews/1076203-gloster-javelin-faw9-xh897.jpeg

There's an old thread about what appeared in Raspberry Ripple, here:

http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-514312.html

Another thread here, lists all the registrations:

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47826

Expe
4th Nov 2015, 19:36
Ah yes, Gp Capt Schouler, it was he. An AD at the time - Davies I believe. Popped up at Metheringham a year or two back. Interesting background. ISTR the Astra Hawk project being very topical back then. And a clever ejection seat for a helicopter, but there was a slight flaw....

If the wind tunnel is closed can the merlins be rescued for BBMF?

Fishtailed
4th Nov 2015, 22:24
Expe, If you search by the locations from which the MoD(PE) fleet were operated, you should have more joy. E.g.:



RAE Farnborough (Try Googling RAE Farnborough "raspberry ripple"*)
RAE Bedford RAE Thurleigh (http://www.pprune.org/flight-testing/342964-rae-thurleigh.html)
RAE Llanbedr
RAE Aberporth
RAE West Freugh
A&AEE Boscombe Down
RRE Pershore RRE Pershore (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/511534-rre-pershore.html)
Shoeburyness

There must be more.



EGNO was home to many over the good years of the 7os and 80s, including guests, Buccaneer XN974, Hunter XL586, and home boy Lightning XP693, not to mention the entire ADV fleet before release to squadron.;)