salary for a pilot in 5 years airline or not [Archive]

calgary

19th Jun 2002, 05:44

I've noticed "becoming a pilot" is so popular it might as well be a trend... even though all the flight schools advertise that there is a shortage or will be a shortage of pilots... I highly doubt there ever will be with the growing number of people that will become pilots, how will this affect the amount a pilot makes?

pilots are supposedly making 300 000/year cdn. but I've talked to some making as little at 24 000/year who've been flying for years...(( mcdonalds manager makes more than-thatw/diploma/degree in aviation, which i hope to have)

I'm fearing if I become a pilot I will be making minimum wage... which will mean I will probably be paying off a debt and living in a trailer park for the rest of my life

im comparing all this to the fact that they say there are soooo many jobs here in calgary, but there are wayyyyyy more people looking for work than there are jobs... so companies are starting their workers off at minimum wage... even for hard labor

this is very depressing because everytime i see a plane my heart starts pounding and wish i could be flying... but i know if i dont pursue a career in aviation chances are I will never fly again considering the cost to rent a plane for even 3 hours is 500+

FlyingForFun

19th Jun 2002, 08:22

Let me make sure I'm understanding you here...

What you're worried about is that if you become a pilot, you'll earn minimum wage. And the alternative is to get another job, where you'll be earning.... minimum wage. Right? Or have I missed the point of your post?

I don't know exactly how much pilots earn, but I know it's less than I currently earn. But that's not stopping me training to do something I love, instead of sitting in an office all day. There are thousands of pilots out there who, although they're not millionaires, don't live on trailer parks - if you love flying, the fact that you won't become a millionaire won't be enough to put you off.

FFF
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spitfire747

19th Jun 2002, 10:13

If you wanna be a pilot. You get employed as a pilot and you got enough money to eat.... whats the problem ?

Ivan Ivanovich

19th Jun 2002, 22:43

Look, do not - I repeat - do not even consider training to be a commercial pilot unless you really, really want to be one. It has to be something you really, really want to do. Get the idea?

Forget the money you will or will not earn; it's about the job. You either want to be a pilot or you don't. If you are concerned about the money then I don't think it's a career for you. Just to get the commercial licence is a task that requires the kind of commitment that only a real wannabe is capable of enduring.

Think it through, decide, and then be committed.

calgary

20th Jun 2002, 01:09

how right you were, I was declined admission for the same reason you have posted, I'm a guy who needs money, and lots of it. I was accepted into sait for arch. tech. where there is guarenteed jobs and a gaurenteed high salary

if i were a pilot i would drive myself nuts trying to pay off a debt of 53000 making 20 000/ year while trying to live, if that... and chances of finding a job are really low at the same time. and im sticking to my"there is not a shortage of pilots and never will be" after everything gathered of the "pilot shortage" that is supposed to occur or which was supposed to for the that 30 years...

but at the same time i would be flying, which i love and think about it almost 24/7 i used to believe about the saying: " if you love your job you will never work another day in your life" but i know everything turns into work eventually.

scroggs

20th Jun 2002, 07:29

Sounds to me like you should go and do something else for money and fly privately for fun.

calgary

20th Jun 2002, 08:41

what im saying... get my recreational, smoke a bowl and fly with some good friends

instead of most people who just want to do that but take evreything beyond that level and **** their life up for having an over rated career as a pilot

GonvilleBromhead

20th Jun 2002, 09:02

"**** their life up for having an over rated career as a pilot"

Hmmmmmmm...............right !

lonerider

20th Jun 2002, 09:28

Not sure about your last comment calgary but I think you are right to discuss money. It is a factor whether we like it or not. You need to want to become a pilot more than anything in this world.

But saying this, its all fine and well saying I just need food but what happens when your on the wrong side of 40 and still earning £150 pw with 2 children to feed, no money in the bank, crap car and mortgage. Kind of brings it home.

calgary

20th Jun 2002, 18:50

yes, being a pilot is over rated by the private schools, they say you make up to 300 000, thats only the older pilots who've become extremely lucky getting employed by an airline... for the other 90% of pilots who are either unemployed or like he said driving a crap car and having to provide for a family I'm sorry i wouldn't want to live like that, you get to fly everyday, but is that worth it?

where i notice some people who already have great jobs, engineering, techs, etc, who could easily afford to get their recreation pilots liscense and afford to fly once a week, try to start pursueing a career in aviation, why?

GonvilleBromhead

21st Jun 2002, 08:54

Because it probably means more to them/us than almost anything else in the world ??? Yes it's something of a gamble but each and every one of us has to make that call based on individual circumstances.

I am a strong believer in if you want a good career with the airlines, then you'll get one (medical allowing). It may take time, it won't be easy, but it's there if you want it.

It's called dedication and determination, and common sense to see you through the slack/hard times.

Obviously if you're more comfortable with flying for a hobby and persuing another career then great, each to their own, all power to you.

Yes there will be guys who don't make it to airlines for God knows how many reasons, but then, there will be a great number of guys who do make it and live very comfortably, I know several.

Obviously it should go without saying to anyone with sense, do not take the spin from anyone promising you endless wealth if you do "their" course etc etc, c'mon be real !!! Do the PROPER research, get the facts and figures, then decide if it's for you, not based on spin.

Kubota

21st Jun 2002, 22:52

calgary...

thats only the older pilots who've become extremely lucky getting employed by an airline

"older"? In the airline business - smallest machine was a 737 - since I was 24!!

"Lucky"? Hell no. I worked hard at it and HAD A PLAN.

It's not easy, you have to work your nads off and you need to have a gameplan, but it's not impossible. I don't want to sound glib, but an appropriate quote would be "every journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". You would do well to remember that.

As for salary, some earn far more than $300K, but if money is your goal, you would be well advised to stay away from professional aviation...the $300K+ chaps are in the top 1 percentile, or perhaps even less. You'd do far better money wise in almost anything else. This is a profession that you LOVE to do, a calling.

I've been at this this or over 20 years and I still love it. Wouldn't do anything else. And yes, I am in the 1%. That's a bonus.

skysheriff

21st Jun 2002, 23:42

aviation is the best way to start with a lot of money and end up with very few.
As for salaries, salaries are ridiculous in comparison with what you can make in outside of aviation (excepted 747 captains and the likes). Many pilots are treated like slaves by some airlines (some irish outfit for example)
Some pilots have to go back to their regular jobs since commuter jobs (turboprop) pay so little in US.

Wee Weasley Welshman

22nd Jun 2002, 00:10

If you did it for money and nothing else your are missing the point.

WWW

calgary

22nd Jun 2002, 08:33

hence, why i think having a recreational pilots liscense, is the best choice for me, and i will follow through with it.

i wish i could be a pilot as a career, but there is way to much time and money invested in it

Tosh McCaber

22nd Jun 2002, 19:34

Why is everyone so quick to stick the knife in on this forum. Yes, professional aviation should only be for those who love flying, but money is an issue. Training costs are massive, add that to the responsibility of flying a modern airliner and money should definately be a consideration. There may be many out there that are willing to fly our increasingly crowded and dangerous skies for peanuts but should they have to? Which other skilled professional would be expected to keep a tight lip when it comes to income? Money is important, without it our families live a totally insecure life!

Stop jumping on your high horses!

p.s. calgary, if you are interested in the money side you can find wages on ipapilot.com, you may have to register.

VFE

22nd Jun 2002, 20:36

Bye bye then calgary. :D

scroggs

23rd Jun 2002, 20:51

Calgary is quite right to look beyond just the personal pleasure of flying when he's considering whether to take up this career. I suspect that many of those reading this have a far too rose-tinted view of life as a professional pilot, and really should look at the practical side of the lifestyle before they commit a very great deal of money to the training.

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with concluding that it's better to be financially secure in another profession and to get your flying fix at your own expense. A large proportion of the private flying community did exactly that, and I haven't met many who regret it!

calgary

24th Jun 2002, 00:46

im still browsing the site.. yea

well at least now im reassured that many have done what i am going to do and not many regret it so...

FlyingForFun

24th Jun 2002, 09:04

Calgary,

You said:

i notice some people who already have great jobs, engineering, techs, etc, who could easily afford to get their recreation pilots liscense and afford to fly once a week, try to start pursueing a career in aviation, why
I'm one of those people you talk about, and I can give you my personal reason. I'm currently in a very well paid IT job, which I find thoroughly boring. I got a PPL (with no financial difficulties) because I thought it would be fun. Then, shortly after getting my PPL, I realised that flying was what I wanted to do for a living.

When I get my first job as a pilot, I will take a substantial pay cut. I think I'll still be able to pay the mortgage - although many first jobs pay so little that I might need to take in a lodger to help with that. But I will be able to get up in the morning and look forward to going to work - something which I have never been able to do in my life so far. To me, that's a good deal.

It sounds like your priorities in life are different to mine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I think others on this thread are wrong to criticise you for it. But, from what you've said on this thread, it doesn't sound like a career as a pilot is right for you. Of course it's possible to live on a pilot's wage - every pilot in the world does it - but maybe not comfortably. You will earn more in just about every other "professional" career. It's all about whether flying is more important to you than earning loads of money.

The Private Flying forum on PPRuNe is excellent, and you should feel free to drop in there any time where you'll find plenty of people who want to talk about flying (me included!), as opposed to talking about making money! :D

FFF
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sausageman

23rd Jul 2002, 05:47

quote:
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**** their life up for having an over rated career as a pilot
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quote:
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i wish i could be a pilot as a career, but there is way to much time and money invested in it.
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You are right Calgary!

Commercial piloting is not for you!

Best of luck in your chosen profession.

SM

Cypher

23rd Jul 2002, 06:11

Tosh.. you got a damn good point..

Job satisfaction doesn't feed the wife and kids does it...??
I think money is a important issue to most pilots.. when you consider most pilots would sell their own mother to get ahead in the aviation game. If money wasn't such a important issue, then why the heck is everyone clawing to get out of General Aviation?? Yep your right, crap pay and crap conditions..
Too many bosses in G.A expect that their pilots to do just that.. fly just for the love of it..

And before anyone jumps on their high horse and asks should I be flying professionally too, I'm already a well paid, employed G.A pilot...(well paid, not by airline standards.. but I'm not worried.. )it's a observation I've seen in the industry.. Too many G.A pilots exploited by their love of flying...

Seriph

23rd Jul 2002, 07:19

It would seem that you don't know what you want or where to go Calgary. Your communications would suggest that you are unsuitable aircrew material, perhaps an education especially in English.

Canadiankid

23rd Jul 2002, 09:23

Ok..First off I would like to point out that all of us across the pond here in the great white north do not share the same view as Calgary. I lived there when I started my career and he is giving it a bad name.

Flying airplanes for a living is one of the most unique gigs going. Try working 9-5. NO THANKS. I tried taking a part time job on my days off (which i have many) and I could not stand it. Be there at 9, take break at 10:30, lunch at 12:30, break at 3:00 go home at 5:00 in traffic I may add. Day in and Day out. 2-4 weeks holidays a year. FORGET IT!!!!! IT SUCKS

The money is poor when you start but that is true in most jobs. Teachers for example top out at a modest wage and the average pilot will blow by their earnings within 5 years. I have a good friend in the computer business and although he makes more than me now I will pass him very soon and he may never catch up. With the world finding itself over run by average lawyers, I venture to guess AVERAGE airline pilots have them beat too. I am not saying this is a competition, but lets be realistic. Air Canada Capts. make big dough. BA chaps make top dollar. AA boys are paid almost too well. Cathay/Emirates/Singapore pay stupid amounts of money if you can get on and stick it out......etc. etc...

My challenge to you Calgary is do your homework on the industry and if you want it go get it. Unless you sign a multi year deal with the Flames, go to medical school or try and run one of those oil companies in CYYC, the money will be there in flying, just wait your turn. Oh and one last thing, have fun and enjoy the best view in the house.

Peace

Piper Warrior Pilot

23rd Jul 2002, 10:08

Most pilots start off at about 36,000 pounds per year with a senior captain getting around 100,000 pounds per year.

The easyjet website has it listed there if your that bothered about the money. www.easyjet.com

But most people who want to fly the airliners one day do it for the love of flying. To be honest with you i wouldnt be bothered if an airline didnt pay me. I love flying and to me, the money is just a BIG bonus.

GearUp CheerUp

23rd Jul 2002, 10:29

Piper Warrior Pilot,

where do you get your figures from then?

I started flying a twin Turboprop of about the Dash 8 size 3 years ago for 21 000 UKP all in. I would suggest there are many more start around that level and below than those who start on 36K.

I see from your other posts that you are investigating sources of finance to fund your commercial training so I can safely assume that you are not financially independent. If this is so, your comment that you would not be bothered if the airlines did not pay you seems unrealistic.

Good luck with whichever route you take but be certain that you make a hard honest assesement of the situation.

Wee Weasley Welshman

23rd Jul 2002, 10:35

piper warrior pilot - not too many people start on £36,000 a year friend.

Using my own experiences in year one of having a commercial license I made about £8,500 ie minimum wage. Year two went uo to the low twenties, year three I hit a jet airline and it went up to the low thirties.

I have no complaints at all about the money I have earned so far, I have been lucky with my career.

Even sponsored cadets who start their flying career day one on a Jet have monies deducted from their salaries to go for training repayment. For example a BA cadet going to Gatwick who be on an equivalent gross salary of around £29,000.

There are a good many FO's out there with a couple of thousand hours on a Dash/Bandit/Shed/748 who don't make anything like £36,000!

The six figure salaries are pretty rare out on the line as well!

WWW

navigator

24th Jul 2002, 07:28

Have a look in your logbook and work out the actual number of days per year you put your uniform on. Then compare that to someone who admittedly could earn more than a pilot but also works 10 hours a day,5 days a week. The spare time allows you to pursue other interests and to have a good quality of life.
Before anyone asks I put my suit with gold bits on about 110 times a year.